GPL 2 - what we want to see

Paul's suggestions are all good choices for GPL2 (except perhaps 1998: circuits littered with chicanes, ugly cars with grooved tires and too much downforce, and Shumacher to race against rather than Jim Clark - no thanks). I would only my personal favourite season to his list: *1963 - The height of the 1.5 litre formula. The cars should drive similarly to the GP2 cars in GPL (that is, easier than the 400 hp monsters of 1967). This is also the year of Jim Clark's first championship and the classic Lotus 25 (probably the best looking GP car ever). Other drivers include Graham Hill, Phil Hill, and John Surtees. A great year.

I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. One problem though...who would want to drive a 24 hour race?!?!?!?!?!? I know i wouldnt. Unless u can save midrace like in GP2. But as far as GPL2 goes i think 1976, 1957, and 1963 are good ideas. However, i think maybe 1958-60 would be even more interresting. The middle of the transfer from front to rear engines and in 58 they had 11 tracks (includinh Indy) which gives you a good ammount of venues. One of the more interresting tracks would be the last race in Moracco. A track only used once for GP racing.

>I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, >Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. I still want that historical touring car sim: Mini Coopers, Lotus Cortinas, Ford Galaxy (what's the proper plural of "Galaxy" as a name?) etc. If that sim comes from Papy, you won't be able to save the race, but you can switch with another driver doing approx. 2 hr stints. ;) Everything else would be unrea /&%%/&% NO CARRIER

These are all great suggestions.. My fave would be the Can-Am series of mid '60's to early 70's.. call it 'Can-Am Ledgends'. The Can-Am championship was based on FIA Group 7 open race cars that had basically one rule... no rules! Because of this, there was tremendous diversity of engineering ideas from most of the reveered marques of the time; Mclaren, Chaparral, Porshe, Lola, Ferrari, even Lotus, plus many many amazing one offs. Some really strange machines poped up like the knee high UOP Shadow, the 8 litre Holman Moody Ford 'Honker', the Chaparral 2j and 2h. The series raced at several tracks rarely modeled such as California's Riverside Raceway, St Jovite in Quebec, and Brigehampton NY. There were even a few non-championship Group 7 races at places like Brand Hatch. =rez=

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>>I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, >>Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. >I still want that historical touring car sim: Mini Coopers, Lotus >Cortinas, Ford Galaxy (what's the proper plural of "Galaxy" as a >name?) etc. >>One problem >>though...who would want to drive a 24 hour race?!?!?!?!?!? >>I know i wouldnt. Unless u can save midrace like in GP2. >If that sim comes from Papy, you won't be able to save the race, but >you can switch with another driver doing approx. 2 hr stints. ;) >Everything else would be unrea >/&%%/&% >NO CARRIER

> These are all great suggestions.. My fave would be the Can-Am series of mid > '60's to early 70's.. call it 'Can-Am Ledgends'. This also gets my vote! Dennis Hulme, who was a champion in both F1 and Can-Am, called this the greatest road racing series in history. The hard part would be picking which year to model. I think you would have to have both Jim Hall and Bruce McLaren, so that would limit it to 1966-68 (Hall retired as a driver after the 1968 season following his terrible accident at the season finale in Las Vegas, and McLaren died testing his Can-Am car a few days before the start of the 1970 season). 1966 was the first year of Can-Am and the McLaren team weren't yet the force they would quickly become. John Surtees was the champion in a Lola. McLaren and Chris Amon drove for the McLaren team. Jim Hall was partnered by former F1 champion Phil Hill in the revolutionary winged Chaparrals. Other drivers included Mark Donohue and Dan Gurney. The only drawbacks - only six races, team McLaren wasn't so *** (which might not be a bad thing for game play but isn't as representative as a typical Can-Am year of the period). 1967 would be a good year, but I suspect Papyrus might be reluctant to have another sim based on the same year as GPL. Although it might be an interesting comparison of cars of that year (both series raced at Mosport and Watkins Glen (or was the Glen added in 1968, my books are at home and I'm at work)). This year was the beginning of the Bruce and Denny Show for McLaren. Hall was still racing, but Chaparral only had one entry (the second car having been totaled by Hap Sharpe in Nassau during an off season race). 1968 was very similar to 1967 - McLaren ***, occasional flashes of brilliance from the Chaparral (marred by unreliability). More races were added. 1969 - the Bruce and Denny show continues. Hall has retired but John Surtees is now driving for Chaparral (the very odd 2H - see through doors, very poor front visibility, the one Chaparral which was a disaster). 1970 - Bruce McLaren has just died. Dan Gurney briefly replaced him at McLaren. Denny Hulme continues to dominate. The incredible Chaparral 2J (the Ground Effects Vehicle or just plain "Sucker") driven by Jackie Stewart for one race and Vic Elford for the other races they entered. This car rarely finished a race but was incredibly fast before it broke. This was similar to the Lotus 49 (but even more extreme) - by far the fastest car but even more unreliable. I can see the hotlappers eating this one up. After this year, the spirit of the series really changed. The other teams got the Chaparral banned, which Hulme later admitted was a huge mistake. The Can-Am was no longer a "formula libre". Sure, there were some great, incredibly powerful cars that came along later - the Porsches, Ferraris, Shadows - but the glory days were over and the series was in decline. What do you other Can-Am fans think? What year would you pick? I think I would go with 1967. Dave Ewing

>>I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, >>Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. >I still want that historical touring car sim: Mini Coopers, Lotus >Cortinas, Ford Galaxy (what's the proper plural of "Galaxy" as a >name?) etc. Go and visit the HTWT races! Frenchman Pierre Levegh drove Le Mans alone until 1952, where he nearly won against Mercedes, but he overrev'd his engine after 22 hours. Le Mans would be great in online races, with pit stops and driver changes - someone in a international team should be awake and be able to take over the car for the next stint. -- _____ /_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d I XT /~~~~ I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro \____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

> 1967 would be a good year, but I suspect Papyrus might be reluctant to > have another sim based on the same year as GPL. Although it might be an > interesting comparison of cars of that year (both series raced at > Mosport and Watkins Glen (or was the Glen added in 1968, my books are at > home and I'm at work)). Taking that thought further, wouldn't it be great if we could drive all Papy-GPL based cars on all Papy-GPL based tracks. It shouldn't be that hard - having modelled both the tracks and the physics, it seems to me that any car should be driveable on all tracks with just a little software manipulation. As Papy release new cars/tracks, we could simply import the old tracks from our previous games into the new ones and vice-versa. Paul

Isn't that kinda what the Proffessional Sports Cars sim is supposed to be?? I believe they have it designed so that you run the 24 hour race in shifts with the computer taking over whenever you aren't driving. That, I think would be cool, and an online version where one user could handoff his car to another via the internet....gotta happen someday. dave henrie Any Can Am season with McClaren's and Chaparralls gets my vote...Wings..ya gotta luv em! dave henrie

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>I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, >Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. One problem >though...who would want to drive a 24 hour race?!?!?!?!?!? >I know i wouldnt. Unless u can save midrace like in GP2. >But as far as GPL2 goes i think 1976, 1957, and 1963 are good ideas. >However, i think maybe 1958-60 would be even more interresting. The middle

of >the transfer from front to rear engines and in 58 they had 11 tracks >(includinh Indy) which gives you a good ammount of venues. One of the more >interresting tracks would be the last race in Moracco. A track only used once >for GP racing.

Paul Jones wrote Of course, with the new game engine, it is theoritically (sp?) possible to do what you want. It's similar to the old game engine. You had Icr2/N1/N2 converters. The same will happen with the new generation of Papyrus software using the game engine. The file structure has been pretty much understood for GPL, since the track editors have way more experience than just back 1 or 2years ago. I don't think it was be as easy to Drag and drop a track (well, there is stuff like color palettes, different file structure inside the *.dat and txt files), but I can easily see a N3/GPL converter. And I know Papyrus likes that. Makes GPL guys to buy N3 and N3 guys to buy GPL ;-) Can you imagine the 'Ring with a stock-car ? Or the New Sears Point with a Loti ? hah ! <ymenard drools over his keyboard> - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

I vote for 70 because of the diversity in design (ie.- The Chapperal 2J or "sucker" car). 67 would be my second choice though but i think the Glen was added in 68. I could be wrong though.

I do not know the expected/realised market shares of simulators between Europe and Americas, but my vote would anyhow go to some period of F1's instead of an all American series. Perhaps those turbo charged winged monsters of 80's, the days when we had the previous Finnish champion, Keke Rosberg... I read some months ago, how he was driving 4 wheel slide in the last turn of Hockenheim... That period of car physics would certainly be a challenge to the clever programmers of Papyrus... Arto

Why not a sim where you can pick your own year? Also, a feature that lets you make up your own 'fantasy' grid with cars from ANY year... =rez= >> These are all great suggestions.. My fave would be the Can-Am series of mid

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>> '60's to early 70's.. call it 'Can-Am Ledgends'. >This also gets my vote! Dennis Hulme, who was a champion in both F1 and >Can-Am, called this the greatest road racing series in history. >The hard part would be picking which year to model. I think you would >have to have both Jim Hall and Bruce McLaren, so that would limit it to >1966-68 (Hall retired as a driver after the 1968 season following his >terrible accident at the season finale in Las Vegas, and McLaren died >testing his Can-Am car a few days before the start of the 1970 season). >1966 was the first year of Can-Am and the McLaren team weren't yet the >force they would quickly become. John Surtees was the champion in a >Lola. McLaren and Chris Amon drove for the McLaren team. Jim Hall was >partnered by former F1 champion Phil Hill in the revolutionary winged >Chaparrals. Other drivers included Mark Donohue and Dan Gurney. The >only drawbacks - only six races, team McLaren wasn't so *** (which >might not be a bad thing for game play but isn't as representative as a >typical Can-Am year of the period). >1967 would be a good year, but I suspect Papyrus might be reluctant to >have another sim based on the same year as GPL. Although it might be an >interesting comparison of cars of that year (both series raced at >Mosport and Watkins Glen (or was the Glen added in 1968, my books are at >home and I'm at work)). This year was the beginning of the Bruce and >Denny Show for McLaren. Hall was still racing, but Chaparral only had >one entry (the second car having been totaled by Hap Sharpe in Nassau >during an off season race). >1968 was very similar to 1967 - McLaren ***, occasional flashes of >brilliance from the Chaparral (marred by unreliability). More races >were added. >1969 - the Bruce and Denny show continues. Hall has retired but John >Surtees is now driving for Chaparral (the very odd 2H - see through >doors, very poor front visibility, the one Chaparral which was a >disaster). >1970 - Bruce McLaren has just died. Dan Gurney briefly replaced him at >McLaren. Denny Hulme continues to dominate. The incredible Chaparral >2J (the Ground Effects Vehicle or just plain "Sucker") driven by Jackie >Stewart for one race and Vic Elford for the other races they entered. >This car rarely finished a race but was incredibly fast before it >broke. This was similar to the Lotus 49 (but even more extreme) - by >far the fastest car but even more unreliable. I can see the hotlappers >eating this one up. >After this year, the spirit of the series really changed. The other >teams got the Chaparral banned, which Hulme later admitted was a huge >mistake. The Can-Am was no longer a "formula libre". Sure, there were >some great, incredibly powerful cars that came along later - the >Porsches, Ferraris, Shadows - but the glory days were over and the >series was in decline. >What do you other Can-Am fans think? What year would you pick? I think >I would go with 1967. >Dave Ewing

> The series raced at several tracks rarely modeled such as California's Riverside Raceway, St Jovite in Quebec, and Brigehampton NY. wasn't the St Jovite track in good-old Pitstop for the Commodore 64??? Han ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Als deze wedstrijd maatgevend is voor de kwaliteit van Twente en Willem II, dan is Twente beter dan Willem II" Co Adriaanse na de 5-1 nederlaag van Willem II bij Twente This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> The series raced at several tracks rarely modeled such as California's >Riverside Raceway, St Jovite in Quebec, and Brigehampton NY. >wasn't the St Jovite track in good-old Pitstop for the Commodore 64??? Mont-Tremblant was indeed in that title Im about 99% sure. Btw, if a track editor for GPL ever makes reality, I make a promess this track will be modeled in GPL. It was the host of the 68 and 70 Formula 1 GP. I got some good accurate maps at home + some photos... (and I raced there). - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide <NAS-Frank> http://www.nros.com/ - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

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> > The series raced at several tracks rarely modeled such as California's > Riverside Raceway, St Jovite in Quebec, and Brigehampton NY. > wasn't the St Jovite track in good-old Pitstop for the Commodore 64??? > Han > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Als deze wedstrijd maatgevend is voor de kwaliteit van Twente en > Willem II, dan is Twente beter dan Willem II" > Co Adriaanse na de 5-1 nederlaag van Willem II bij Twente > This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And let's not forget Touring Cars!!!!!

>>I say not GPL 2 but rather a sports car sim from the same era. Le Mans, >>Sebring, and Daytona as well as other endurance tracks. The only thing I'd like added in GPL2 is a native Linux port. This very day W95 will kiss its pitiful existance wasting my hd space goodbye. If gpl2 takes another two years I think there is a good chance to see this actually happen (we'll be nearing 50 million Linux users by then, not exactly a market to neglect). Regards, Uwe -- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

Tucson Coyote Here, Here is one thing Papy should try to do on either a patch or on the next racing sim they make....Force Feedback Effects...... I mean in GPL, If you crash the thing you should feel the wheel litterally twist as you tumble.... It is probably the coolest effect that force feedback has to offer... Also when you get airborne, instead of feeling the bumps of the road, the steering wheel should just stop vibrating.... Now if GPL either makes a support patch of Force Feedback, and/or does something that will eventually support the newer video drivers (Like Riva TNT when they get the Hardware bugs out of it, as will as the software bugs... Then they will have a major hit on their hands..... The only thing that they need now IS 'The Theme from Grand Prix' and this would be one kick tail sim!

<snip> Here are my picks:-) I've tried to concentrate on tracks that have been part of F1 championship and are "unusual" instead of often requested tracks like 8-Monza. Circuito di Pescara 26 km triangle. Two long straights and one twisty section. F1 in '57, history dates back to 1924. Narrow, and unsafe even by GPL standards;-) Check out the URL, lot's of old photos: http://www.abol.it/coppaacerbo. Reims 8 km triangle, this time three straights;-) In first F1 season, and I think in some others also. Avus F1 in 50's, the 8+ km version and I hope with banking. It's quite simple, but I want to see how fast these GPL cars really are. Tony Brooks did a 240 km/h lap there with 2.4L Ferrari in late 50's. Le Mans Not the Bugatti circuit, but the old one with real Mulsanne. Is it too obvious that I like fast tracks;-) Late 60's or early 70's prototypes...69-71? A very big grin:-) This is what I'd definitely like to see in GPL. Pasi