GPL - overrated

Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is overrated? It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. jmho ?rjan S.

>Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >overrated? >It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. >jmho The good (and bad) thing about GPL is that you have to spend so much time with it to enjoy it. You cannot expect to win any race the first week (or month). I have propably spent at least 100 hours behind the wheel, and I am still learning a lot about racing this sim. It's hard to master, but you will be rewarded for you patience. I suggest reading Alison Hine's excellent GPL pages if you want to enjoy this simulator. http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/ -Jan Otto

I think you need better bait than this if you wan't the fish to bite. Jeff

> I think you need better bait than this if you wan't the fish to bite. Who said anything about fishing? I just wondered if it was overrated, and so far nobody agreed with me. I can live with that :-) Regards, ?rjan S.

> Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is > overrated? > It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. > jmho Well, you could try to post this question in rec.autos.soapbox-racing. You'll get a lot of agreeing posts there... ;^) BTW, do you feel lonely in this ng because you don't agree with the majority here? jmho, too l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> > Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is > > overrated? > > It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. > > jmho > Well, you could try to post this question in rec.autos.soapbox-racing. > You'll get a lot of agreeing posts there... ;^) > BTW, do you feel lonely in this ng because you don't agree with the > majority here?

Nope, why should I :-). GPL aint the only sim around these days. ?rjan

It sounds to me like you've played a little with the demo, but that's about where your experience with GPL ends. I suggest that you buy it and run some of the other tracks. It's one of the best sims available at this time and probably will be until Nascar 2000 comes out. Like you've already responded to someone else - GPL certainly isn't the only sim out there, so if you're into auto racing, there's something out there that suits you. -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

I think Mr. Sandland has a point. GPL has its good points: interesting physics model, good engine sounds, a return to cars and tracks many of us never saw, the wheels turn, but its not THAT good. GP2 is still excellent, but it would be nice to see wheels turning in replays. Both GP2 and GPL need weather changes to add a further challenge that is real in life and existed in World Circuit. Remember that now lowly simulator. Seems like most people on rec.autos.simulators have jumped on the GPL band wagon as if the previous ones had little or no merit, and one person has even decided what the best simulator will be when it comes out. Cheers

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> Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is > overrated? > It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. > jmho > ?rjan S.

Sim Orjan, sim. Mike

It *is* that good to some of us. "Interesting" physics? I'd say the most accurate to date would be a better description. I don't know if weather changes would be a real benifit to the sim. It would simply make an already difficult-to-master sim that much more difficult. I don't think anyone is completely dismissing other sims, but GPL is a definite step ahead of the rest (that I have used anyway). That was probably me - I'm a Nascar fan through and through, but it's hard to go back to N2 after driving GPL. When Nascar 2000 comes out (using the same/improved version of the GPL physics model), I may discard GPL altogether - but then again, maybe not... >>Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >>overrated? It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend >>too much time with. -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS Director http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Would you care to expand on that opinion at all? 8-) (just interested in your views) *Peter* #:-)

Yep. But it is the best! Arto

>When Nascar 2000 comes out >(using the same/improved version of the GPL physics model), I may discard >GPL altogether - but then again, maybe not... This will never happen to me - I tend to fall asleep racing oval tracks ;)

I think you mean that GPL is underrated, expecially considering the scores given from PC Gamer and CGW. Grimfarrow

Definetly NOT! This is without a doubt the BEST racing sim out! (In my own humble opinion..)

>>When Nascar 2000 comes out >>(using the same/improved version of the GPL physics model), I may discard >>GPL altogether - but then again, maybe not... >This will never happen to me - I tend to fall asleep racing oval >tracks ;) Yeah, but you haven't raced them using the GPL engine :-) -- Ken Go #43 and #44 "If I went 'round claiming I was Emperor because some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" - anonymous peasant volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

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> > Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is > > overrated? > > It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time > > with. > Would you care to expand on that opinion at all? > 8-) (just interested in your views)

A bit perhaps :-) I'm not an eager fan of ovals and formula cars sims, and it takes alot to make me really like one. This probably doesent make me a weighty critic, but I hope I'm entitled to think it's overrated anyway :-). Taken the current postings about GPL, there have to be a zillion race drivers out there. I have never been near a formula 1/2000/3000 racing car, but apparently there are a lot of people here who know exactly how a sim like this *should* be. Sure, say its a cool driving sim - but how many here can really speak of its realism? I have just spent an hour or so with GPL, but it took me no more than 10 seconds to think that the clutch was a plain joke. Unless it's supposed to be semi-automatic.. The graphics are good and same goes for crash realism. However, after my first crash, I could still drive without one front wheel. I tested several crashes, and could get away with the most akward damages. Driving the cars feels very right, as far as I can judge. The closest I've been to this type of driving experience in real life, have been driving 125cc Nordic class Go-Carts, which aint much - I know. To all GPL fans out there; enjoy! I'm not out to take your pleasure away :-) Greetings, ?rjan Sandland ...who will enjoy Viper Racing, and street-car sims a bit more than GPL.

> >Nope, why should I :-). GPL aint the only sim around these days. > Yep. But it is the best! > Arto Absolutley. With GPL I've had the most exiting races ever experienced - and that's just against the AI cars! Just go out and buy it, for Pete's sake.

There was a Formula 1 race this year where Schumacher rear ended another racer which slowed suddenly; Schumacher drove almost a complete lap without one of his front wheels. (I don't suppose the car handled very well. This was the incident where Schumacher ran after the other driver to punch him out, but was restrained.) Bill Yowell <snip> <snip>

>This probably doesent make me a weighty critic, but I hope I'm entitled >to think it's overrated anyway :-). Absolutely true! Just out of curiosity.... what do you use to "control" the clutch? And have you ever tried a car fitted with a race-clutch? Well, if you havn't.... please let me try and explain how it works. A race-clutch is basicly made for one thing... the start. It's a very "on/off" kinda thing, meaning that it wont work like a normal car clutch. It's *very* sensitive and made to work at high revs. Another thing worth mentioning is that you DON'T use the clutch when you shift gears in a *proper* race-car. Real race-cars got un-sycronized gearboxes that are fitted with dog-rings and not the usual syncro-rings you find in a normal-car. The dog-rings allow the driver to change gears *without* using the clutch. The drive only have to lift the throttle a bit as he shifts gear. The lifting is done to a: avoid over reving the engine and b: aid the dog-rings to "mesh". Did you watch the RAC rally just a few weeks ago? Makinen (sp?) drove his car on three wheels (missing right rear) for a pretty good distance... In fact he could have continued thru to the service area, had not the police prohibited him from driving on public roads (transport stage) with only 3 wheels... :-) All the best, Edwin Solheim REMOVE SPAM-GUARD IN ADDRESS TO REPLY! Check out "The Paddock - a legendary site..." for some cool GPL-stuff!! [http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock)

Yep really overrated... much the same way that sex with Cindy Crawford would be overrated, a good beer is overrated, the scream of a V-12 Ferrari engine is overrated. Just in case... that is sarcasm. How much time have you spent with GPL? if you haven't taken the time to learn the tracks, get the feel of the cars and especially to race online against humans, then you are missing out on a great experience. There are some other great F1 sims for sure, I personally played GP2 and ICR2 fanatically for years, but nothing before has had the physics model of GPL, once you get some practice in you can really "feel" the car, and once you do, it will leave you with an appreciation for what Papyrus has accomplished with the physics model of GPL. Going back to sims like F1RS and GP2 after driving GPL extesively really shows how much simpler their physics model is. No I would not say GPL is too greatly overrated, sure it has some flaws (lack of easy AI adjustments etc.) but when you look at it as a whole, there is no other sim that has made me shout for joy when I have nailed a perfect line on a difficult corner like Spa's Eau Rouge as a Ferrari driven by a human driver fills my Eagle's mirrors and I see that my perfect 4 wheel drift and line up the hill make the Ferrari growl behind me fall away. This physics model is something to really appreciate. This doesn't mean that the other sims are not great (I still keep F1RS and GP2 and even ICR2 on my HD) but that time goes on and simulation technology really does improve, GPL's physics model is one of these landmarks in sim technology, much like GP2's brake lockups and good physics model at that time were revolutionary (except for the canned spins). You definitely should give it a chance and do spend some time with it, at least long enough to learn the handling of the cars and especially to try online racing against humans. You are missing out on a gem of a sim if you don't. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

GPL is like sex - the better you get at it the less over-rated you realise it is :) JMHO Greg

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>Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >overrated? >It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. >jmho >?rjan S.

>There was a Formula 1 race this year where Schumacher rear ended another >racer which slowed suddenly; Schumacher drove almost a complete lap >without one of his front wheels. (I don't suppose the car handled very >well. This was the incident where Schumacher ran after the other driver >to punch him out, but was restrained.) >Bill Yowell I almost expected Schu to try to FINISH the race.... :) Eldred

EldredP wrote to William Yowell Only Gilles Villeneuve would had done this... ;-) - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

who's Pete?!

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> > >Nope, why should I :-). GPL aint the only sim around these days. > > Yep. But it is the best! > > Arto > Absolutley. With GPL I've had the most exiting races ever experienced - > and that's just against the AI cars! Just go out and buy it, for Pete's > sake.

> who's Pete?! > > Just go out and buy it, for > > Pete's > > sake. Erm, actually, I am..... 8-) *Peter* #:-)

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> > > Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is > > > overrated? > > > It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time > with. > > > jmho > > Well, you could try to post this question in > rec.autos.soapbox-racing. > > You'll get a lot of agreeing posts there... ;^) > > BTW, do you feel lonely in this ng because you don't agree with the > > majority here? > Nope, why should I :-). GPL aint the only sim around these days. > ?rjan

But it is by far the best "sim" available. Nothing else compares in this respect... Paul

!!!! ! Graeme Nash Web: http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 GP2: http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ Racing the Ferrari in the IGPS "Useless Quote"

Heheheh... the first, and only, Sim Game (Racing) I had ever ran from anothers backup, and after two weeks.. I own my own copy........and a damn proud owner as well! Matter of fact.. I am thinking of buying copies of it for Christmas for family members... never can have more fun than whizzing past your family members in Mexico! :-) Anything, as long as they stop asking me to race Nascar99.......... (Which way again? Oh yeah.. it's always left.....DuH!) Tyrone BTW... CompUSA has it for 29.99 with a purchase-price rebate (if you send in ANY other racing sim CD). Read that.. now you can get it for free!

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>Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >overrated? >It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time with. >jmho >?rjan S.

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>>I think Mr. Sandland has a point. GPL has its good points: >>interesting physics model, good engine sounds, a return to >>cars and tracks many of us never saw, the wheels turn, but >>its not THAT good. >It *is* that good to some of us. "Interesting" physics? I'd say the most >accurate to date would be a better description. >>GP2 is still excellent, but it would be nice to see wheels >>turning in replays. Both GP2 and GPL need weather changes >>to add a further challenge that is real in life and existed >>in World Circuit. Remember that now lowly simulator. >I don't know if weather changes would be a real benifit to the sim. It >would simply make an already difficult-to-master sim that much more >difficult. >>Seems like most people on rec.autos.simulators have jumped >>on the GPL band wagon as if the previous ones had little or >>no merit, >I don't think anyone is completely dismissing other sims, but GPL is a >definite step ahead of the rest (that I have used anyway). >>and one person has even decided what the best simulator will >>be when it comes out. >That was probably me - I'm a Nascar fan through and through, but it's >hard to go back to N2 after driving GPL. When Nascar 2000 comes out >(using the same/improved version of the GPL physics model), I may discard >GPL altogether - but then again, maybe not... >>>Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >>>overrated? It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend >>>too much time with.

bullshit i booted up the old GP2 yesterday to see it again,. It is 2 dimensional with little feedback and shitty graphics. Gpl is beautiful, 3d and everything GP2 was not! NO comparison, none at all. get a 3dfx card instead of judging it by the software renderer, which you must be doing!

SNIP Yes, I agree. GP2 is truly showing it's age now. The game has 2d-physics and 2 and 1/2 d graphics ;-). Regards K.S. Br?nnick

Interesting to hear everyone touting the".. accurate physics.." of GPL. My question is simple: how does everyone KNOW how accurate the physics model is? When is the last time anyone has driven a 1967 F1 car (probably 1967!). Truth is, driving a racecar is as much " seat of the pants " as anything in getting feedback as to how it handles. Forgive me, this may be sacrilege, but I don't think this kind of feedback is present in the game. I'm not really sure how accurate the physics model is. It certainly may give the impression that it is accurate. Actually, i think that GP2 might be far better in simulating the downforce aspects of the modern F1 car. Even so, same arguement applies: no real idea how accurate it is.

How do you know that the TV you bought really gives the most accurate picture? Because of the advertising hype? No, it's because you have a fair idea how reality should look, and your eyes do the comparison for you. You may not be intimately acquainted with the electronics that Sony, JVC or whoever spent years developing, but you have a pretty good idea. Cheers! John

> >>"Interesting" physics? I'd say the most > >>>accurate to date would be a better description. > >Interesting to hear everyone touting the".. accurate physics.." of GPL. My > >question is simple: how does everyone KNOW how accurate the physics model is? > >When is the last time anyone has driven a 1967 F1 car (probably 1967!). > > Truth is, driving a racecar is as much " seat of the pants " as anything in > >getting feedback as to how it handles. Forgive me, this may be sacrilege, but I > >don't think this kind of feedback is present in the game. > >I'm not really sure how accurate the physics model is. It certainly may give > >the impression that it is accurate. Actually, i think that GP2 might be far > >better in simulating the downforce aspects of the modern F1 car. Even so, same > >arguement applies: no real idea how accurate it is. Actually there are plenly of Vintage F1 cars to sample. Peter Lovely used to have a Lotus 49 tho it was a 68 wing car. Dan Gurney still has the Eagle that won Spa in '67. I have driven a Brabham BT 24 in Formula Atlantic trim, with newer race ***. So if needed if could be sampled and decided that it is close. The Brabham was not near as hard to drive with sticky tires and only 240 hp Cosworth BDA. Dave

>The clutch cable went on my last car (old banger) - knowing nothing about the >insides of cars, I called the RAC (UK version of Green Flag) and the man came >and couldn't get at it so he said he could tow me home, which was not where I >wanted to be. He also told me how to drive without a clutch ("it's a luxury", he >explained). I drove for 2 weeks without it shifting when the engine sounded >right. Starting is the hardest bit - you need a clear road ahead and just use >the starter motor to power in up in 1st. Parallel parking is out of the >question. >Paul Yes, I've had that one before. My old 1971 Ford Capri's clutch went south, got around for a bit w/o it. Didn't use the starter motor to get off the line tho'--used the GPL way instead (rev it up a bit and force it into gear. Small chirp from the tires and I was off.) Then there's the time my throttle cable broke and I had to pass a bit of twine through the firewall to the throttle levers on the carb. Got home by pulling the string instead of mashing the pedal . . . . Fun, it was . . .

I agree - this sim is dangerous in the way poker is - I just want to race it and do nothing else - I hope I find some limitations soon or else I'm going to have to see an ***ion therapist, Paul

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> No way is GPL overated,it is quite simply the BEST racing simultion > you can get right now. > It's the only simulation i have had that has a real possiblity of > ruining my marrige,as I just can not leave it alone,it just so ***y > FANTASTIC. >> Is there anyone else out there who thinks this hype about GPL is >> overrated? >> It looks like a good F1 sim, but nothing I'd spend too much time >> with. >> jmho >> ?rjan S.

The clutch cable went on my last car (old banger) - knowing nothing about the insides of cars, I called the RAC (UK version of Green Flag) and the man came and couldn't get at it so he said he could tow me home, which was not where I wanted to be. He also told me how to drive without a clutch ("it's a luxury", he explained). I drove for 2 weeks without it shifting when the engine sounded right. Starting is the hardest bit - you need a clear road ahead and just use the starter motor to power in up in 1st. Parallel parking is out of the question. Paul

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> >This probably doesent make me a weighty critic, but I hope I'm entitled > >to think it's overrated anyway :-). > Absolutely true! > >I have just spent an hour or so with GPL, but it took me no more than 10 > >seconds to think that the clutch was a plain joke. Unless it's supposed > >to be semi-automatic.. > Just out of curiosity.... what do you use to "control" the clutch? > And have you ever tried a car fitted with a race-clutch? > Well, if you havn't.... please let me try and explain how it works. > A race-clutch is basicly made for one thing... the start. It's a very > "on/off" kinda thing, meaning that it wont work like a normal car clutch. > It's *very* sensitive and made to work at high revs. > Another thing worth mentioning is that you DON'T use the clutch when you > shift gears in a *proper* race-car. Real race-cars got un-sycronized > gearboxes that are fitted with dog-rings and not the usual syncro-rings you > find in a normal-car. The dog-rings allow the driver to change gears > *without* using the clutch. The drive only have to lift the throttle a bit > as he shifts gear. The lifting is done to a: avoid over reving the engine > and b: aid the dog-rings to "mesh". > >However, after my first crash, I could still drive without one front wheel. > Did you watch the RAC rally just a few weeks ago? > Makinen (sp?) drove his car on three wheels (missing right rear) for a > pretty good distance... In fact he could have continued thru to the service > area, had not the police prohibited him from driving on public roads > (transport stage) with only 3 wheels... :-) > All the best, > Edwin Solheim > REMOVE SPAM-GUARD IN ADDRESS TO REPLY! > Check out "The Paddock - a legendary site..." for > some cool GPL-stuff!! > [http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock)

Well then, we need a qualified someone to go out and drive one of these vintage cars and spend enough time driving GPL do develope "feel" for the simulator, and then possibly that person could give us their evaluation of how accurate the physics are modeled. Cheers

The Brabham BT24 with a cosworth BDA was very smooth to drive, quick to turn in, and felt it had lots of reserves of power, but I am comparing it to the old Street Prepard Solo ll car I had at the time I was able to drive this one. Also a 100hp makes a big difference. Dave

> >"Interesting" physics? I'd say the most > >>accurate to date would be a better description. > Interesting to hear everyone touting the".. accurate physics.." of GPL. My > question is simple: how does everyone KNOW how accurate the physics model is? <Snip> Well you can expect to get toasted over this statement but I for one tend to agree with you<g>. GPL may be the be all, end all of racing sims to a lot of people but I can take it or leave it myself. Its fun but certainly nothing I'd spend months learning how to do well with. One thing I'm happy about though is that Papyrus is doing N3, N2000 or whatever it'll be called, this is a sim I am very interested in.

Wish Papy would do the new Cart sim first there already seems to be more then enough attention Nascar stuff . Just my $0.02 !

Many of us have driven sports cars and formula cars in competition (not F1, of course) and comment on GPL's realism based on that experience. Short of the seat of the pants feel and the consequences of making a serious blunder, it's incredibly realistic. And as both a mechanical engineer and software developer, I'm in awe of Papyrus' work. 3D dynamic modeling of 1 GP car is no small feat, 20 simultaneous cars is mind-boggling. Couple that with amazing graphics and all I can say is "Papy, you're the king! Thanks for an incredible ride!"