VIPER: Force Feedback Wheel recommendations?

My MSFF does a fair amount of that, though there is only so much end swapping you can feel in the wheel, it's more in the visual bias. You can map the Y axis forces to the X axis so you get some sense of it, but by nature it's going to be artificial. One thing the wheel does well in VR is give you a sense of the ups and downs of the road surface. The centering force is adjustable and is pretty good on high. I leave it one notch below that. I noticed two things though: 1. It is clumsy to try and hit the shift buttons behind the wheel when it is turned. I have big hands and I really have to wrap my hands around to get to them. If you have smaller hands, you might not be able to reach around the FAT wheel rim very well. The wheel has places in the *** part of the outer edge to hook your thumb, also, and yourthumb can get stuck in them ifyou have to turn the wheel very far, say, for opposite lock or something. 2. The wheel is small, about 10" in diameter. I have wide shoulders and it gets uncomfortable to have to hold my arms that way to 'focus' my hands in front of me with a good range of motion. I have the same trouble with a computer keyboard. Putting my hands straight next to each other in front of me is all but impossible. email me if you want more specific answers to anything. Remove the 'nospam'. daxe ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==--- ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==---

>Thanks for responding, Dave.. daXe Looseness is the back trying to take over the front, sort of... Visually you see the scenery yawing in relation to your direction, thats how you can tell if your front or your back is not going in a straight line. When you feel it in a real car, you are not really getting that feedback through the steering wheel so much as your eyes and your butt. X and Y axis as they relate to the world, not your joystick/wheel. The X axis is left to right, the Z axis is front to back. Y axis is up and down. If you did any 3D modelling.rendering/animation, this would make more sense to you. The software for the wheel allows this option and it is labelled as such. Ever hear the term 'Z-buffering'? That means buffering the data in the Z axis, or what you perceive as depth. daXe ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==--- ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==---

I've only got the demo of Viper right now (too close to Christmas, wonder if Santa reads this newsgroup... ). It works GREAT with the MS FF wheel, though I've read (I think on www.force-1.com) that Viper's Immension FF effects have been improved after some involvement from Logitech - those bullying, arrogant swine :) Anyways, I like the MS wheel. Actually, bought one, tried it with GPL, Viper & N2, and took it back (the same day) because it would work (for me) in N2. Got a TM NPro, used it for a week, realized I wasn't actually PLAYING N2 at this point in time (GLP - 'nuff said) and took it back & got the original MS FF wheel back (I know this from how I repacked it, though they did replace (or re-shrink wrap) the driver/game CD - thanks again EB. Had the wheel about a month now & it still seems solid - even after lots of FF (ab)use last weekend when I picked up the new Computer *** World with NFSIII, Speed Busters & Jonny Herbert GP demos (all FF). Good luck Randy

Quoted text (15 lines)

>I want a FF Wheel. I play ViperRacing a lot, so I want the wheel >to feel good in Viper. I am interested in the racing feel, not crashing >forces.. :) I want to feel understeer/oversteer, etc. >Could someone who plays Viper with a FF wheel comment on >which wheel they have etc.? >I am also interested in whether the wheel has good centering force >and 'feel' when NOT playing a FF game. >Thanks! >-- >( rrevved is at mindspring dot com >( post in haste, repent at your leisure

snip

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >Y-Axis forces? Y-Axis is the pedals. There is no force on the pedals > >is there? What do you mean?? > X and Y axis as they relate to the world, not your joystick/wheel. The X > axis is left to right, the Z axis is front to back. Y axis is up and down. > If you did any 3D modelling.rendering/animation, this would make more sense > to you. The software for the wheel allows this option and it is labelled as > such. Ever hear the term 'Z-buffering'? That means buffering the data in > the Z axis, or what you perceive as depth.

Nope, wrong answer. Until recently only FF joysticks were available, so most games implemented FF using the x AND y axis of a joystick. Because an FF wheel only uses the x axis and the pedals don't support FF, you can redirect the games FF effects for the y axis to the x axis. l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

>>You can >>map the Y axis forces to the X axis so you get some sense of it, but by >>nature it's going to be artificial. >Y-Axis forces? Y-Axis is the pedals. There is no force on the pedals >is there? What do you mean?? It is basically as he said. You can map whatever FF effects the pedals would have felt (if they were FF) into the wheel axis (X). It just occurred to me that this could be what is causing the massive jarring when you shift gears in F1RS. I'll bet if you turn off the "Map Y axis to X axis" the shifting in F1RS may be more tolerable. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

> How did you like the Speed Busters demo? > Seb. Sorta like 'grey' eye-candy. No in-car view (that I could find). REALLY twitchy steering - actually had to INCREASE the steering dead-zone to be able to drive in anything like a straight line. Much less of a SIM than Viper (even with Viper's "Horn Ball") This demo doesn't tempt me to buy the full version at all - the NFS demo, though... Demo CD also had Castrol Superbike on it, but would just freeze when started, which was strange since I've heard it's just a 2 wheeled version of JH GP, which ran fine (didn't say it was any good, just ran fine on my PC) Randy

Yeah.. I read what I wrote about it and realized it didnt explain it very well, but thats what I meant. In fact, I believe that though the Y axis of the Joystick recieves FF data, it is in the Z axis of the world that that data is generated. Some of the confusion comes in that there are 3 axes for everything, it depends on your frame of reference. Object XY and Z are not the same as World XY and Z, etc. The Z axis of the object (in this case, you) is actually up and down, though the sim Z axis is "in and out". Ugh..my head hurts daxe ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==--- ---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==---

ditto... -Larry > Santa reads this newsgroup... ). > It works GREAT with the MS FF wheel,

LOL! That is almost _exactly_ my story, except for me it was the Nascar SuperSport wheel I traded for, and after I bought the MSFFW for the second time I decided to keep the SS for Nascar2/NROS. Viper is 100% responsible for this madness :) It's FF effects are so damned good that I couldn't live without them. -Larry

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Anyways, I like the MS wheel. Actually, bought one, tried it with GPL, Viper > & N2, and took it back (the same day) because it would work (for me) in N2. > Got a TM NPro, used it for a week, realized I wasn't actually PLAYING N2 at > this point in time (GLP - 'nuff said) and took it back & got the original MS > FF wheel back (I know this from how I repacked it, though they did replace > (or re-shrink wrap) the driver/game CD - thanks again EB. Had the wheel > about a month now & it still seems solid - even after lots of FF (ab)use > last weekend when I picked up the new Computer *** World with NFSIII, > Speed Busters & Jonny Herbert GP demos (all FF).

Yeah, like at castlegreen when you are going backwards, have just passed the castle, and are starting up tha hill to the curves just before the finish line. The engine starts yawing up and down, the car starts bobbing up and down, the sound sounds exactly like it should, and the wheel is jiggling in _perfect_ harmony with all those other sensations. That one corner (actually, just before you get to it), is one of the best computer simulated stretches of road I've ever seen/heard. It'd done _perfectly_ in Viper Racing. -Larry > One thing the wheel does well in VR is > give you a sense of the ups and downs of the road surface.