GPL tracks really shine !

GPL did a great job on the tracks!!! The on im amazed with is the Nurburgring because it is so huge. But ill have to agree on the Mosport model...it is truely awesome!

But not in terms of modelling the camber and crown of the road - I think this is unique to GPL and is one of the things that makes it so realistic/challenging to drive. - Michael

Something Papyrus has always done really well. I remember getting almost seasick through the Laguna Seca corkscrew the first time I played ICR. There is one quite good version of Mosport for GP2 available on the 'Net, but without the camber changes it just isn't Mosport. Turn 2 at Mosport is a white-knuckle, off-camber, blind-apex, downhill monster. This thing eats Formula Fords for breakfast and lunches on Trans-Am Camaros. I have seen cars lose it so completely at this corner that the ended up over the fence and in the brush. I wish my notebook had the power to run GPL, or even CPR as I see someone has built a very convincing Mosport for it as well, and it is a good hot-lapping sim after all. Stephen

<snip> I have had the pleasure of doing time trials at Mosport in a fire breathing, race prepped, aftermarket supercharged Porsche 911C4 putting out 450+ b.h.p.. I used to participate in the "driver instruction" events held by the PCA (thinly veiled excuse for going as fast as you can without hitting anybody else, but not actually racing each other). I have driven Mosport, Watkins Glen, St. Jovite (Mt. Tremblant), Shannonville and a couple others. Mosport was terrifying! The first year I was in the PCA I had to drive with an instructor belted in the passenger seat (ahhh.... to reminisce about those five point belts!.... doh! forgot to close the door when waiting in the pits.... <honk> <honk> (sheepish grin) "Errrr.... could you close the door for me so I don't have to undo the belts?"). :) Before that, though, I had to go for a run as a passenger in the instructor's car -- a 928 if I recall correctly. The first time ever that I went around 2a and 2b I thought I was going to die, roll, buy it -- whatever -- and that the car was going to end up in the rhubarb. The sheer drop off, the off camber left corner, the total lack of visibility before the corner all make it a hair raising experience. GPL does model it nicely; however, when driving in RL I was much more aware of the acute altitude change in 2a and b than I am in GPL but that must just be because of the lack of sensory input inherent to all driving sims. In GPL if (when!) I spin on that corner and look backwards *up* the hill then it is really apparent how much of an elevation change there is. Way to go Papyrus! Too bad the 'Glen doesn't have the toe and heel of The Boot. Maybe it didn't exist in '67. Cheers all and remember: hell bent for leather and ass over tea kettle! Otherwise its just a Sunday drive. :b Gian.

monster. >This thing eats Formula Fords for breakfast... It's eaten me more times than any other corner on this track on GPL - its *really* difficult to pick the exact turn-in point as the track is dropping away! - Michael

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>>Turn 2 at Mosport is a white-knuckle, off-camber, blind-apex, downhill >monster. >This thing eats Formula Fords for breakfast... >It's eaten me more times than any other corner on this track on GPL - its >*really* difficult to pick the exact turn-in point as the track is dropping >away! >- Michael

If that's the corner I *think* it is (I'm at work now), I've NEVER made it through there clean.... :( Eldred

I agree T2 may be hard to do perfectly, but I really isn't that bad. Use the groove as your guide to braking. When it gets really black, shift down to 2nd and move to the left -- I may even get the LF on the grass sometimes. Mosport is another of my favorite tracks -- my Ferrari loves it too :) Overall, the groove is very helpful in determining corner speeds. If the groove is kinda-dark (but not pitch black) slow down a bit. When it is pitch-black, you better be in 2nd :) This is especially helpful at the 'ring. Jason.

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> >>Turn 2 at Mosport is a white-knuckle, off-camber, blind-apex, downhill > >monster. >This thing eats Formula Fords for breakfast... > >It's eaten me more times than any other corner on this track on GPL - its > >*really* difficult to pick the exact turn-in point as the track is dropping > >away! > >- Michael > If that's the corner I *think* it is (I'm at work now), I've NEVER made it > through there clean.... :( > Eldred

-- -------- Jason Monds (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Mea***er wrote I won't flame you, but the Ubisoft track engine is probably the worst I ever saw... No camber, no elevation (like per example Zandvoort in GPL), no banking. The bumps are not really modeled like I said 1week ago. It's a flat track, but in the track data you have XYZ position for canned bumps on the track. And I didn't even started to talk about track innacuracies who are frequent ;-( - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

That's kinda surprising. There's a F1 show on German telly (DSF) where they use the sim to discuss the tracks. RTL, the main F1 broadcaster also uses F1RS, and H. H. Frentzen said that "the cars don't feel right at all, but they did an outstanding job with the track models". Knowing the tracks just from TV they look way more accurate than the cart tracks from CPR, and, at least in the beginning, those were praised to be the "most accurate ever". But what to expect - in F1RS you can't even flip the car. And the colors are really ***y (cartoonish someone said - damn right!). I would have bought the sequel if it had better colors. The only workaround for it is to crank up the screen brightness... GPL tracks RULE. I can't wait to get to the Ring. I'll record a lap on video and compare it with the game.

And braking points, although sometimes you can brake later - I wouldn't like to do without it. - Michael

>>Overall, the groove is very helpful in determining corner speeds. >And braking points, although sometimes you can brake later - I wouldn't like >to do without it. >- Michael How do you guys find braking points at Silverstone? The only thing *I* see to use is the racing groove. That's fine when no one's in front of me. When I'm behind someone, I can't see the braking point until too late. There aren't any TRACKSIDE markers in most of the turns. That drives me crazy..... Eldred

Silverstone is OK for markers: T1(right) - groove / distance to turn T2(left) - groove / distance to turn T3(right) - groove / cement on right T4(left) - groove / distance to turn T5(right) - second telephone pole in the groove T6(right) - Mailboxes on left T7(left) - groove / distance to turn T8(right) - 2nd box thingy in the groove on the left. (is it a box or a message board? hehe) These are from memory. Jason.

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> >>Overall, the groove is very helpful in determining corner speeds. > >And braking points, although sometimes you can brake later - I wouldn't like > >to do without it. > >- Michael > How do you guys find braking points at Silverstone? The only thing *I* see to > use is the racing groove. That's fine when no one's in front of me. When I'm > behind someone, I can't see the braking point until too late. There aren't any > TRACKSIDE markers in most of the turns. That drives me crazy..... > Eldred

-- -------- Jason Monds (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

>>Overall, the groove is very helpful in determining corner speeds. >And braking points, although sometimes you can brake later - I wouldn't like >to do without it. Ah ha! So I'm not the only one that uses the groove as a reference marker for braking points. I'd always read comments about picking out landmarks for braking points. For me, this is very difficult, as the tracks (other than Spa and Monaco) don't have big, in-your-face, sorts of trackside objects. I'd probably gain 1.5 seconds per lap if there were bright orange sets of 3-2-1 cones at the tracks. -Bill -- Bill Mette | "A person is smart. People are dumb." MCSNet, Chicago | - K MiB

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>I have had the pleasure of doing time trials at Mosport ... >GPL does model it nicely; however, when driving in RL [Real Life?] I >was much more aware of the acute altitude change in 2a and b than I >am in GPL but that must just be because of the lack of sensory input >inherent to all driving sims. In GPL if (when!) I spin on that corner >and look backwards *up* the hill then it is really apparent how much >of an elevation change there is.

If only GPL could accurately simulate the ugly feeling of your breakfast rising back up your throat every time the car gets light as it crests that steep drop into turn 2 at Mosport. And (unless you've crashed) there's the satisfying feeling of breakfast settling back into the pit of your stomach, and your cheeks sagging, and arms getting heavy, as the positive g's build up at the bottom of the hill, firmly pressing the car down on its suspension with a corresponding huge increase in grip! But on second thought, maybe it's better that those sort of things aren't modelled too accurately. There's a big tree, on the right edge of the Nuerburgring track just before the Adenaur Forest section that's had my face imprinted on it far too frequently. It's a bummer, having kept it all together for half a lap, to have everything come to such a sudden and abrupt halt when wrapped sideways around that tree (AGAIN!!). When you look at the replay, you can't help but think to yourself, "Oooh, that's gotta hurt!" Luckily we can just hit shift-R and try it all over again with no permanent harm done. Too cool. -Ferdinand- p.s. I finally did three consecutive laps under 10 minutes at the Nurburgring. Now if I could only cut out those three of four crashes per lap, I'm sure I could get into some competitive times. But I'll have to take a chainsaw to that tree first...

the >Adenaur Forest section I too have met that tree face on a few times. I wonder why they didn't cut it down - I'll have to look on my Ringmasters '67 video and see if its actually there - it was certainly removed when all the armco barrier was put round the track. I'm down to 8:30 on the Ring now. No spins, but I'm just not brave enough on some critical sections. Especially after half a lap, you have so much "invested" in a good lap you don't want to blow it and its hard to push. - Michael

Stop at the right braking point in practice, then do a massive *** burnout doughnut there. It'll still be there in the race! - Michael

You just didn't hit it hard enough. I hit it real' hard, and now it's gone... "Excuse me, is this spray good for mosquitoes?" -"No, I'm afraid, it kills them." Mea***er Michael schrieb in Nachricht

>>There's a big tree, on the right edge of the Nuerburgring track just >>before the Adenaur Forest section Michael replied: Yeeeha! I managed a lap at 8:59! That still includes several spins, so I'm certain there's a lot of time left to be shaved off. I keep telling myself to just calm down. But I still haven't completed one, single, solitary lap of the Nuerburgring without spinning or crashing somehwere. The Nuerburgring is so awesome because *every* curve feeds directly into another one, so one small mistake has immediate consequences in the next curve, or the one thereafter. It's just so tempting to try any one particular curve a little differently to see if it's an improvement. Then, just as you're congratulating yourself on nailing that curve perfectly, you arrive at the following curve slightly quicker than usual and run straight off into the fence. Yet every time around, I'm tempted to try it again. So now I nail the first curve just right, hang onto it through the second curve, and promptly get spit out into the forest on the third curve. Too cool. There are so many sections like that where you have to recognise a particular curve, not for the difficulty of this one curve, but for the difficulty of the next three or four curves that immediately follow in the series. But it's so frustrating, as you said, to have "invested" an entire 9-minute lap only to crash again at the exact same spot as last time! Instead, I've tried breaking it up into sections. I'll run a short section at speed, then stop, turn around, run it backwards, then try it again, until it feels okay. Then I'll move on to the next section and practice that for a while. But I STILL haven't managed to string the whole thing together for one successful lap! -Ferdinand-

What we could do with is some split times through the various sections to tell us if we're "up" or "down" on the previous lap. A bit like a rally stage. Not very realistic though. It makes me wonder how the real drivers learnt the Ring. Maybe they turned up for lesser races like F3 to get the hang of the track. - Michael

Michael Powell schrieb in Nachricht I believe that most of us have already spent more time on the "Ring" than the real drivers...

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:08:41 +0100, "Mea***er"

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>Michael Powell schrieb in Nachricht >>It makes me wonder how the real drivers >>learnt the Ring. Maybe they turned up for lesser races like F3 to get the >>hang of the track. >I believe that most of us have already spent more time on the "Ring" than >the real drivers...

Probably true. At the 1967 German GP, drivers had to complete a minimum of five laps in practice to assure minimal familiarity with the circuit. Jochen Rindt didn't, but was allowed to race since he had driven there before. How well did you run after only five laps at the 'Ring? (and how many shift-R's per lap?) :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Yes, but many of the experienced drivers such as Clark, Hill, Hulme, Gurney etc. had raced there quite a few times before '67. Not too good. - Michael