GPL compared to Monza demo

I have a couple questions about GPL before I buy it. I played the Monza demo and thought the graphics were fairly awful (dodgy flat trees for starters) and was wondering, with all the praise for the graphics, whether they are any different in the full game. Also does the full version support force feedback, as the demo doesn't and even uses its own calibration instead of windows. Any info appreciated. Dean

graphics: i had similair thoughts after downloading the demo , the graphics were ***perhaps they werent any drivers for my card , but who cares, the graphics areimho better than mcar toca cpr but just short of f1rs( though many will disagree with me, some dont like the colourfull graphic s of that game) force feedback no , and from what ive heard on this ng , probably never- papy doesnt think the current hardware could convey the subtleties required to give useful info to the driver i calibrate my ms ff thro its own panel in windows ps do not ask anymore questions , if u like driving sims , u like them hard ,accurate and none of that driving on rails bullshit u get with other nascar cart f1 games BUY IT

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>I have a couple questions about GPL before I buy it. >I played the Monza demo and thought the graphics were fairly awful (dodgy >flat trees for starters) and was wondering, with all the praise for the >graphics, whether they are any different in the full game. Also does the >full version support force feedback, as the demo doesn't and even uses its >own calibration instead of windows. >Any info appreciated. >Dean

Yes the trees are flat as are the people but try this at Monza, drive slowly down the front straight and point toward the grandstands or use the view left key as you drive by, look at the beams in the roof of the stands... detail.... Anyway if you play a replay for someone the first thing most will say is, wow what cool graphics, espescially the cars! The bigger issue is how GPL drives, it is tough but very rewarding when you get it down. Also consider this will be the engine for Nascar2000 so it's like practice for that. Buy it. JM

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> I have a couple questions about GPL before I buy it. > I played the Monza demo and thought the graphics were fairly awful (dodgy > flat trees for starters) and was wondering, with all the praise for the > graphics, whether they are any different in the full game. Also does the > full version support force feedback, as the demo doesn't and even uses its > own calibration instead of windows. > Any info appreciated. > Dean

Dean wrote I think most of us praise for the graphics accuracy and track architecture. Most of those tracks don't exist anymore or are different in their form, so actually being able to re-create those tracks is spectacular. GPL in 1024x768 with all graphics on beats anything in the industry in terms of graphics. Just take a peek at the TV replay at Monaco. Leaves everything in the dust. Nobody is near them in the industry, probably 1 and even 2years behind. Just have a trip at the Nurburgring with the full version. It has better graphics than anything you ever saw. F1RS and MGP have "good" graphics, but way too flashy and innacurate. Very innacurate. Most of us hard-core simracers dont care about "good looking" graphics, but we want graphic accuracy and track architecture. Ubisoft doesn't model banking and camber in their titles. No way they could do something like the Off-Road Zandvoort. Their canned game engine would be too weak for that hehe. Oh and another thing, bumps on the track dont exist in F1RS and MGP. The track is always flat except of vertical elevations. Bumps are coordinated with an XYZ point on the screen, that the track data loads. Papyrus models perfectly the 3d-world. It doesn't support FF presently. That doesnt mean it wont in the future ;) Oh and btw, the calibration routines of Papyrus are 100times better than the ***MS Game controller Direct Input one ;-) - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

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>Ubisoft doesn't model banking and camber in their titles. No way they could >do something like the Off-Road Zandvoort. Their canned game engine would be >too weak for that hehe. Oh and another thing, bumps on the track dont exist >in F1RS and MGP. The track is always flat except of vertical elevations. >Bumps are coordinated with an XYZ point on the screen, that the track data >loads. >Papyrus models perfectly the 3d-world.

Yep, and Zandvoort is like riding a roller coaster. I *hate* that track.... :(

I always seem to hit a bump on the exit of *** in F1RS...otherwise I agree with you :-) -don "To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caracciola

I don't think GPL's graphics are anything that special, but the racing is very good! rob.

Hi Dean, Not that different. But I think they're fine for the task. Once you can stay on the road and keep some distance between yourself and the roadside objects they look fine from a short distance. In some cases the scenery, while sparse, looks magnificent - ie while driving around the 'Ring one can forget about races or hot laps and quite easily be emotionally transported to a drive in the country. In fact I dare say that the 'Ring is the most beautiful depiction of a circuit in sim racing to date. Also I think once you're in a race your focus tends to be much more concentrated on the very narrow strip of road and less concerned if the crowd looks flat from close up. The scenery is just a bunch of textured polygons. I'm sure that if Papyrus wanted to make it detailed in every 3D aspect of reality they could have. But I suppose that that's not the objective here. The objective is probably a case of using the least possible number of simultaneously rendered textured polygons while still maintaining an acceptable appearance - thus leaving the maximum CPU etc resources for road, car, and AI modelling. I think the mix of off road scenery quality and on road action has been balanced pretty well, IMHO. No, there's no FF support in GPL. The stated position was that during the period of code writing the state of the art in force feedback devices left a lot to be desired. I for one am not a fan of current FF devices and can see why they were left out. Personally I can't help but think it'll be some time before FF is sophisticated and subtle enough for the nuances of driving sims. The ones I've tried have a long way to go. I see in some online reviews of such these things aren't well regarded by at least a few others. In the words of one reviewer, you'd be better off taking the extra money you'd spend to get FF and use it to buy a higher quality non FF wheel than you might otherwise have bought. A high quality wheel system will probably give you more joy in the long run than will a gimmicky FF device. FWIW. ( More "shinning wit " for our dear friend Mr Walker. ) Cheers Phillip McNelley

It's just that Papy didn't disguise them too well. Most of GP2's trees are in 2D, for example. It's just that the GP2 file format allows you to cover them up quite well. Flat trees are nothing new! Cheers :-) -- Graeme Nash You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 "Useless quote"

No, no, no! Zandvoort is scary when you're learning it, but once you know it... it's bl**dy amazing :-) My least favourite track's Monaco, but MoSport came a close second... until today. It's weeks since I drove on Mosport, and I always fell off badly whenever I pushed for a halfway decent lap. But I must've improved, because today I was not only able to stay on the track, but race successfully... for at least a couple of laps ;-) Mosport and Zandvoort have quite a lot in common, I think I could get to like it a lot. Andrew McP

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>> Yep, and Zandvoort is like riding a roller coaster. I *hate* that >track.... :( >No, no, no! Zandvoort is scary when you're learning it, but once you know >it... it's bl**dy >amazing :-) My least favourite track's Monaco, but MoSport came a close >second... until >today. It's weeks since I drove on Mosport, and I always fell off badly >whenever I >pushed for a halfway decent lap. But I must've improved, because today I was >not only >able to stay on the track, but race successfully... for at least a couple of >laps ;-) >Mosport and Zandvoort have quite a lot in common, I think I could get to like >it a lot. >Andrew McP

Monaco's ANOTHER one I hate. Thanks for reminding me!<g> In GP1 & GP2, Monaco was one of my *favorite* tracks... Funny how things change, isn't it? I know, I know - keep practicing, and eventually I'll be able to make two laps in a row without stuffing it in the armco... I've gotten through the chicane exactly ONCE at speed... :( Maybe I'll just work on one track per week... Eldred

Me too - I can't get past the chicane at all. I wish someone would post how they manage it. I am pretty sure you have to go on to the pavement at the bottom of the hill - but I normally find that throws me sideways into the hay bales on one side or the other. Magpie http://www.chandler.u-net.com

On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)

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>> Yep, and Zandvoort is like riding a roller coaster. I *hate* that track.... :( >No, no, no! Zandvoort is scary when you're learning it, but once you know it... it's bl**dy >amazing :-) My least favourite track's Monaco, but MoSport came a close second... until >today. It's weeks since I drove on Mosport, and I always fell off badly whenever I >pushed for a halfway decent lap. But I must've improved, because today I was not only >able to stay on the track, but race successfully... for at least a couple of laps ;-) >Mosport and Zandvoort have quite a lot in common, I think I could get to like it a lot. >Andrew McP

Sounds just like me - I have recently found just how to turn into each corner just ahead of the inside kerb and use the throttle to keep you just off it. My problem comes as soon as any other cars come up behind me and I loose the feedback of my own cars sound. I am just getting to the point where I can now keep up for several laps with one or two of the slower AI drivers and actually race with them. Eventually of course I can't keep up with their super precision and I loose it. Magpie http://www.chandler.u-net.com

>>Monaco's ANOTHER one I hate. Thanks for reminding me!<g> In GP1 & GP2, Monaco >>was one of my *favorite* tracks... Funny how things change, isn't it? >>I know, I know - keep practicing, and eventually I'll be able to make two laps >>in a row without stuffing it in the armco... I've gotten through the chicane

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>>exactly ONCE at speed... :( >>Maybe I'll just work on one track per week... >>Eldred >Me too - I can't get past the chicane at all. I wish someone would >post how they manage it. I am pretty sure you have to go on to the >pavement at the bottom of the hill - but I normally find that throws >me sideways into the hay bales on one side or the other. >Magpie

Try going slower over the elevation before the chicane. If you take that to fast, the car gets light when you're over the crest, and will not steer or brake the way you want. It is true that you must clip the pavement on the left. Bart Westra