Which Video Card Banshee or VooDoo II

Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now TIA, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Eslick ICQ # 3889251 Scott's Sim Site Director-N2Offline Super Truck Series Click to subscribe to the SuperTrucks Mailing List Click to subscribe to the NASCAR 1999 Mailing List --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stay away from the Banshee... - Eric Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now

Thanks Eric, May ask Why? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Eslick ICQ # 3889251 Scott's Sim Site Director-N2Offline Super Truck Series Click to subscribe to the SuperTrucks Mailing List Click to subscribe to the NASCAR 1999 Mailing List -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stay away from the Banshee... - Eric Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now

About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it runs Glide games. Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still with no AGP texturing), but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture capability. However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. If you desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only choice), but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story... - Eric Thanks Eric, May ask Why?

Thanks Again Eric! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Eslick ICQ # 3889251 Scott's Sim Site Director-N2Offline Super Truck Series Click to subscribe to the SuperTrucks Mailing List Click to subscribe to the NASCAR 1999 Mailing List -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it runs Glide games. Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still with no AGP texturing), but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture capability. However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. If you desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only choice), but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story... - Eric Thanks Eric, May ask Why?

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> About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it > runs Glide games. Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still > with no AGP texturing), but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture > capability. However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of > all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. If you > desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that > can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only > choice), but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally > I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story... > - Eric

I suppose you advocate a TNT then? I should hope NOT! Every 2D/3D (or 3D) card out there has compromises, that's why I'm running a V2200 with V2's on the side.

Since I have them all the Raven Banshee overall is the best card I have. When the V2's drop to $99 then it could be a close call. Overall the Banshee tops out better than the V2 as only a handfult of fps use multitexturing. TNT is good but the lack of Glide means I still need a glide card in it. Also the speed overall on the TNT is a bit overrated imo. All three cards performance wise are close enough that it's fairly trivial to me. 16 bit-24 bit is trivial to me, don't notice when I'm playing and have to go out of my way to notice when I look for it. PCI cards are running faster the their AGP counterparts both Banshee and TNT. I think Eric is off a bit or quite a bit in his as***t. Building 450 mhz systems for $775 includes monitor and the Banshee was my card of choice. BH

That's one big ONLY! Okay, that's two things! True. Is this an issue in any sim? I don't mean this as a challenge, just a question. AFAIK, the multitextured games are based on the Quake engine. What else uses multitextures right now? What do we know of in the pipleine that uses them? Remember, the majority reading here are simmers. Don't know about how the OpenGL rates. Isn't it good enough for OpenGL ***? Aren't Voodoo framerates in Quake, et al, as good or better than any other chipset's? As to the 16-bit, again, how much of an issue is that right now, near future, and especially in sims? I've read the quotes from developers (all action 1st person types) in response to Q's on the V3's capabilities. They seemed to say that 16-bit *will* be a limitiation, though some thought that the V3 would be about the last to get away with it. To me, that means that for now, and the next few months to a year, 16-bit might be fine. And I wonder how much of a difference it really makes, especially in sims. I've looked at a lot of those bitmaps showing how "awful" one card looks, how much "better" a TNT, G200, or whatever looks, and frankly, not a big deal to me. Now instead of studying a still and instead be hugging a turn at Monza at 140mph and 30+ fps, and I doubt I'll be worring about a slight dithering difference. So, that makes it an excellent choice! I might agree that the V2 is the better choice. Except the Banshee does have more texture memory (right?), 3D in a window (not a biggee to me), and support of 1024x768 and above with/without z-buffering. Still, a TNT and V2 might be a better, albeit far more expensive, approach. I don't mean this to sound as unequivocal, or challenging as it might appear. I do find it interesting that what started as a "don't buy it" turns into something which indicates that there are compelling reasons to indeed buy it. What I really wonder about is the relevance of the drawbacks of the Banshee. I'm in the same boat. I don't feel like "upgrading" to a card that doesn't have multi-texturing, doesn't have 24/32-bit rendering, doesn't have "real" AGP support. But would I see a difference with any of those features now? 3 months from now? 6? 12? By then, might I have the next generation whiz-bang card? And would I buy a card now that has all that, but doesn't play half the titles I play at all, or at substantially reduced performance?

Aside from the obvious lack of Glide support, what compromises does the TNT have? - Eric

What is Glide? I need a 3d board bad... I have a Maxtron Millennium w/4mb and in GPL I get 12FPS.. Kinda sux!!! The only sims I Have are GP2 and GPL.... I'm not into Quake and whatever else there are out there.. So, what is a good choice?>?

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> >About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it > >runs Glide games. > That's one big ONLY! > >Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still with no AGP texturing), > Okay, that's two things! > > but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture capability. > True. Is this an issue in any sim? I don't mean this as a challenge, just a > question. AFAIK, the multitextured games are based on the Quake engine. What > else uses multitextures right now? What do we know of in the pipleine that > uses them? Remember, the majority reading here are simmers. > >However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of > >all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. > Don't know about how the OpenGL rates. Isn't it good enough for OpenGL > ***? Aren't Voodoo framerates in Quake, et al, as good or better than any > other chipset's? > As to the 16-bit, again, how much of an issue is that right now, near future, > and especially in sims? I've read the quotes from developers (all action 1st > person types) in response to Q's on the V3's capabilities. They seemed to say > that 16-bit *will* be a limitiation, though some thought that the V3 would be > about the last to get away with it. To me, that means that for now, and the > next few months to a year, 16-bit might be fine. And I wonder how much of a > difference it really makes, especially in sims. I've looked at a lot of those > bitmaps showing how "awful" one card looks, how much "better" a TNT, G200, or > whatever looks, and frankly, not a big deal to me. Now instead of studying a > still and instead be hugging a turn at Monza at 140mph and 30+ fps, and I > doubt I'll be worring about a slight dithering difference. > >If you > >desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that > >can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only > >choice), > So, that makes it an excellent choice! > > but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally > >I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story... > I might agree that the V2 is the better choice. Except the Banshee does have > more texture memory (right?), 3D in a window (not a biggee to me), and support > of 1024x768 and above with/without z-buffering. Still, a TNT and V2 might be > a better, albeit far more expensive, approach. > I don't mean this to sound as unequivocal, or challenging as it might appear. > I do find it interesting that what started as a "don't buy it" turns into > something which indicates that there are compelling reasons to indeed buy it. > What I really wonder about is the relevance of the drawbacks of the Banshee. > I'm in the same boat. I don't feel like "upgrading" to a card that doesn't > have multi-texturing, doesn't have 24/32-bit rendering, doesn't have "real" > AGP support. But would I see a difference with any of those features now? 3 > months from now? 6? 12? By then, might I have the next generation whiz-bang > card? > And would I buy a card now that has all that, but doesn't play half the titles > I play at all, or at substantially reduced performance?

>What is Glide? Glide is 3dfx's (a company) proprietary API (Application Programming Interface). Some games are coded for Glide only. To play them, you need a 3dfx chip based video card (Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, Voodoo Banshee). Some games support both Glide natively and D3D. Any 3D-accelerator will support D3D games, but with differing success. 3dfx Voodoo-based cards are amongst the best. Currently, the Riva TNT chipset is probably the fastest D3D accelerator. OpenGL is the last of the common API's. Basically used by Quake-type games, but also supported in GPL via a patch. GPL supported Glide and Rendition's native Redline API out of the box. Supposedly, the best performer for this particular title is the Hercules Thriller 8MB (Rendition 2200), with Voodoo2 next best. GPL now supports most any card via OpenGL, but I don't know how well. Out of luck with GP2 as it doesn't support any 3D API, ie it won't be accelerated by anything other than a faster CPU. GPL: Best choice: Hercules Thriller 8MB, a combo 2D/3D card (don't know the price). Next: Voodoo Banshee, a combo 2D/3D card (Guillemot has one for $90 after rebate, check www.guillemot.com). Next: Any Voodoo2 card (Diamond Monster2, etc). Next: Any Voodoo1 card Next(?): TNT using OpenGL API. If you plan to get any other racing games in the future (like Monaco GP RS2), I'd recommend not dead-ending yourself with the Hercules. Instead, I'd get a Voodoo2 and keep your Millenium to handle 2D. Basically, Glide is supported by a lot of current games, sometimes solely. But I'd expect future titles to mostly support D3D, or a choice of D3D or Glide. With the occasional (especially Quake-type) OpenGL support.

> What is Glide? > I need a 3d board bad... I have a Maxtron Millennium w/4mb and in GPL I get 12FPS.. Kinda sux!!! I have a 16MB Guillemot Phoenix Banshee and playing GPL in 1024x768 36fps instead of 800x600 (with a Voodoo2) is luxury IMO. Over here (UK) the equivalent Voodoo2 board cost 20 pounds more (??) Only problem is a couple of games fail to detect a 3Dfx card (Grand Theft Auto for one) maybe because they don't expect your default card to have Voodoo capabilities. Hope patches are on the way... when I had my old P166, GP2 (no 3D accelleration) didn't run faster with a Banshee than with my old Matrox Mystique, but is up to full detail and speed with my K6-2 350. Ian "I want to go into neutral but I'm not in me car." - Uncle Peter

> GPL: > Best choice: Hercules Thriller 8MB, a combo 2D/3D card (don't know the >price). $91 for an OEM/"white box" 8MB AGP version. Some good points no doubt, and while I love my SLI'd Voodoo2's, IMHO it was definitely worth the $91 to add the Thriller to my system as well. It's not that bad at 2D in Windows (compared to the first gen. Rendition chip), has a 230MHz RAMDAC (vs. 135 for 1st gen. Renditions), and it's very fast at SVGA in DOS (important for GP2, <g>), but above all, the image quality of the Rendition V2200 (on the Thriller) is far better than that of the V2. No washed out colors, indeed they seem much crisper and "purer", and only with a Rendition board can you turn on the antialiasing feature.