GPL and warping online

Some of you guys are saying how good the GPL online racing is. When I have been on VROC, even in the Cable modem games the warp is terrible. How can you guys race? Am I the only one having a warp problem?

Geoff, this is not gonna be much help since I'm on an ISDN line, but no, I don't have any warp problems at all. However, I do occasionally see another player's car warp badly (a race this morning at Monza on a cable modem host comes to mind)... and more often see a particular car jumping around a little bit, but nothing major. Only advice I can give is to go the the VROC info pages and set up your modem as explained there. Also, if you'r showing a ping time of over 350ms to the host, no need to bother to join (you'll most likely warp). If your pings are good and your modem is set up properly, I can only point the finger at your ISP. :-( Rgds, Mark R. >Some of you guys are saying how good the GPL online racing is. When I >have been on VROC, even in the Cable modem games the warp is terrible. >How can you guys race? Am I the only one having a warp problem?

John? Andrew? David G Fisher

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>No, I disagree. I'm on ADSL and I have very low lat. Yet when I race >John Simmons on his Cable Modem He still dances around the track. >Just the two of us. Thats ridiculous. >The Multi-player coding on GPL isn't that great. Its semi-smooth on my >local LAN <3 PCs all race ready> but still not perfect. Hopefully >Papyrus/Sierra will release a patch to improve this, but I doubt it. >They're too busy re-releasing N2 for the third time. :( >-Rich

No, I disagree. I'm on ADSL and I have very low lat. Yet when I race John Simmons on his Cable Modem He still dances around the track. Just the two of us. Thats ridiculous. The Multi-player coding on GPL isn't that great. Its semi-smooth on my local LAN <3 PCs all race ready> but still not perfect. Hopefully Papyrus/Sierra will release a patch to improve this, but I doubt it. They're too busy re-releasing N2 for the third time. :( -Rich

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>Geoff, this is not gonna be much help since I'm on an ISDN line, >but no, I don't have any warp problems at all. However, I do >occasionally see another player's car warp badly (a race this >morning at Monza on a cable modem host comes to mind)... and more >often see a particular car jumping around a little bit, but >nothing major. >Only advice I can give is to go the the VROC info pages and set >up your modem as explained there. Also, if you'r showing a ping >time of over 350ms to the host, no need to bother to join (you'll >most likely warp). >If your pings are good and your modem is set up properly, I can >only point the finger at your ISP. :-( >Rgds, >Mark R. >>Some of you guys are saying how good the GPL online racing is. When I >>have been on VROC, even in the Cable modem games the warp is terrible. >>How can you guys race? Am I the only one having a warp problem?

The problem Rich has connecting to me is that the first inbound router over 300ms. done. I had a guy from Australia connect today and he said his connect was butter smooth. Go figure... I think Papy's networking code could be improved, but I don't think their code is the whole problem with warping.

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>John? Andrew? >David G Fisher >>No, I disagree. I'm on ADSL and I have very low lat. Yet when I race >>John Simmons on his Cable Modem He still dances around the track. >>Just the two of us. Thats ridiculous. >>The Multi-player coding on GPL isn't that great. Its semi-smooth on my >>local LAN <3 PCs all race ready> but still not perfect. Hopefully >>Papyrus/Sierra will release a patch to improve this, but I doubt it. >>They're too busy re-releasing N2 for the third time. :(

-- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

You rang M'Lady? Sorry I took so long, but I was polishing the Rolls. Ok David, let's yawn our way through this again. GPL's net work code isn't perfect... thought we'd established that once or twice... or was it three times? No, it was definitely four... or, er.... ZZZzzzzzz........ But it works... in its own, often flawed way, it works. I've had *** connections. I've had ok connections. I've had rock-solid, no jiggy-jig, oh-my-god-I'm-going-to-die-this-race-is-f*cking-marvellous! connections. And I can live with that uncertainty. Only death, taxes, and some people's attitudes are predictable. Sorry, can't offer any useful help or advice. All I have to share is a relaxed attitude, a little knowledge of the *huge* uncertainties of Net ***, and a sense of perspective. Andrew "Parker" McP PS Well known Net facts number four hundred and fifty seven: just because you have a shit-hot Net connection and the other guy has a shit-hot connection, doesn't mean that somewhere between the two ISPs there isn't a bottleneck. Life's a ***, the Net's porked, I'm going to bed.

>Andrew "Parker" McP >PS Well known Net facts number four hundred and fifty seven: just because >you have a shit-hot Net connection and the other guy has a shit-hot >connection, doesn't mean that somewhere between the two ISPs there isn't >a bottleneck. Life's a ***, the Net's porked, I'm going to bed. LOL!

% > John? Andrew? % You rang M'Lady? Sorry I took so long, but I was polishing the Rolls. % Ok David, let's yawn our way through this again. GPL's net work code isn't % perfect... thought we'd established that once or twice... or was it three times? % No, it was definitely four... or, er.... % ZZZzzzzzz........ <snip> % PS Well known Net facts number four hundred and fifty seven: just because % you have a shit-hot Net connection and the other guy has a shit-hot % connection, doesn't mean that somewhere between the two ISPs there isn't % a bottleneck. Life's a ***, the Net's porked, I'm going to bed. And there, David, is the answer again for the 1400th time. If you don't understand it, we can't help you.... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>No, I disagree. I'm on ADSL and I have very low lat. Yet when I race >John Simmons on his Cable Modem He still dances around the track. >Just the two of us. Thats ridiculous. >The Multi-player coding on GPL isn't that great. Its semi-smooth on my >local LAN <3 PCs all race ready> but still not perfect. Hopefully >Papyrus/Sierra will release a patch to improve this, but I doubt it. >They're too busy re-releasing N2 for the third time. :( >-Rich

Gotta be your ISP, Rich! I'm racing online with 10-15 people in Finland warp-free! The host is usually on T1 line, I have ISDN connection. My ping to the host is around 50ms ... like I said, no warping whatsoever! Hena

Michael and Andrew. What I understand is that you boys probably have a fraction of the time I do racing online, and therefor don't really know what you are talking about. The world won't end if you admit that something just might not be "perfect" with GPL. I probably have forgotten more about online racing, the internet, and how it all works together than you'll ever know. Rich (the original poster) could use his ASDL line and have smooth, connect free racing with other racing software. Simple as that really. Once you accept this fact, you can start giving proper advice. Rich, it's the game. David G Fisher >And there, David, is the answer again for the 1400th time. If you don't >understand it, we can't help you....

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> Michael and Andrew. > What I understand is that you boys probably have a fraction of the time I do > racing online, and therefor don't really know what you are talking about. > The world won't end if you admit that something just might not be "perfect" > with GPL. > I probably have forgotten more about online racing, the internet, and how it > all works together than you'll ever know. Rich (the original poster) could > use his ASDL line and have smooth, connect free racing with other racing > software. Simple as that really. Once you accept this fact, you can start > giving proper advice. > Rich, it's the game.

David, here`s what John wrote about the connection between him and Rich > The problem Rich has connecting to me is that the first inbound router > over 300ms. Now how can Papy be responsible for that ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

If all hosts are always bad then your ISP is probably at fault, though it could just as easily be the network (not just Internet, other bindings and arcane stuff I don't pretend to understand). FWIW, when I played a lot of Quake I went though three ISP's. One of them was totally useless for any games. The others all had their good, bad, or indifferent days. If your problems persist, in your position I'd certainly try another ISP (though not AOL or CompuServe, neither of which were (they may have changed) any use for *** in the past. Andrew McP

Hehe. I love usenet. Someone's going to mention NASA any moment now... I can feel it in my bones. Though I may just be imagining it's a feeling in my bones, after all, I'm not a neurosurgeon or an osteopath so I couldn't possibly have anything relevant to say. Readers with memories somewhat greater in capacity than your average mayfly will recall the thread concerning GPL's packet size, which is -- by all accounts -- rather weighty. That's not good for Net ***, and no-one ever said it was. I can't be sure, but I believe packet size can affect the priority given to data. I may be talking bollocks though... 1st time that's ever happened around here, I know. But hey, someone has to set a precedent. Andrew McP PS Opinions are to thought what ready made jokes are to humour... a substitute.

David G Fisher wrote Ok so here is what I add... you know that I got alot of online experience, no, I mean "mucho experiencia" ? And here is my quote : "Well known Net facts number four hundred and fifty seven: just because you have a shit-hot Net connection and the other guy has a shit-hot connection, doesn't mean that somewhere between the two ISPs there isn't a bottleneck. Life's a ***, the Net's porked, I'm going to bed." - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Ah, in Rich's original post he said nothing about other games nor his connect quality with them... all he spoke of was GPL. And, uh, mewonders why such an expert in the Internet and online racing would be using Prodigy for an ISP... pardon me while I ROFLMAO. Rgds, Mark R. On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:17:09 -0500, "David G Fisher"

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>Michael and Andrew. >What I understand is that you boys probably have a fraction of the time I do >racing online, and therefor don't really know what you are talking about. >The world won't end if you admit that something just might not be "perfect" >with GPL. >I probably have forgotten more about online racing, the internet, and how it >all works together than you'll ever know. Rich (the original poster) could >use his ASDL line and have smooth, connect free racing with other racing >software. Simple as that really. Once you accept this fact, you can start >giving proper advice. >Rich, it's the game. >David G Fisher

<snip>

You are right about the 300 ping. Problem is, 300 is just fine for internet racing in other racing software. Rich said it was just him and John. 300 should be great with just the two of them. Rich also said he didn't like the look of it on a LAN as well. David G Fisher

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>David, here`s what John wrote about the connection between him and Rich >> The problem Rich has connecting to me is that the first inbound router >> over 300ms. >Now how can Papy be responsible for that ? >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy

<snip/lots of boring crap> I wonder who is responsible for making the choice as to what info is sent in those packets (what's necessary, what isn't)? Search your mayfly brain for the answer. It's really easy. The answer is the same for all sims with an online feature. Here's a hint. The devel-per. You might not remember (surprise) but this topic has already been discussed here at r.a.s. At worst, his ping to John was around 300. Just the two of them were racing. How in the hell you could think that poor results in that situation are defensible is beyond me. It's funny watching some of you get so worked up over light criticism of your favorite sim. Especially since you have been so quick to criticize so strongly in the past. Even Papyrus employees would surely be more receptive to fair criticism than some of you. No surprise there. David G Fisher

300 is fine in much more recent internet racing games. CPR (1 year old), MTM2 (6 months old), Viper Racing, and a few others handle it very, very, well. GPL's prediction code is......is there even a prediction code? I'll bet my right arm that Ubi Soft does an excellent job with the upcoming Game Service for MGPRS2. David G Fisher >Don`t know about the LAN thing, never tried it with GPL, but to say that >300 ms is great is not true in my experience, it may be playable in >other sims, but think about it, at 200 km/h a car travels quite a bit of >distance in 300ms, there`s prediction code to fill in the gaps of >course,

> You are right about the 300 ping. Problem is, 300 is just fine for internet > racing in other racing software. Rich said it was just him and John. 300 > should be great with just the two of them. Rich also said he didn't like the > look of it on a LAN as well. Don`t know about the LAN thing, never tried it with GPL, but to say that 300 ms is great is not true in my experience, it may be playable in other sims, but think about it, at 200 km/h a car travels quite a bit of distance in 300ms, there`s prediction code to fill in the gaps of course, but at some point that code can`t fill the gaps in a proper way, it`s possible that an "arcadish" racer like POD can handle these large gaps better because it needs less information at any given time, would be interresting to hear some of the more knowledgeable people give out some info about this I`ve played Age of Empire over at "The Zone" quite a bit, and as soon as ping times go over 500 ms you get quite a bit of "lag", and this in a strategy game, so just saying that 300 ms works in another game just isn`t enough, and whether there are just the two of them on the track shouldn`t make much of a difference, because warping occurs because the prediction code runs out of data (or the data gets too old, or whatever) and this will happen if there are two or twenty cars on the track Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

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>> You are right about the 300 ping. Problem is, 300 is just fine for internet >> racing in other racing software. Rich said it was just him and John. 300 >> should be great with just the two of them. Rich also said he didn't like >the >> look of it on a LAN as well. >Don`t know about the LAN thing, never tried it with GPL, but to say that >300 ms is great is not true in my experience, it may be playable in >other sims, but think about it, at 200 km/h a car travels quite a bit of >distance in 300ms, there`s prediction code to fill in the gaps of

I've tried it on a LAN at home. It works very well, once you get on the track. It delays sometimes GETTING there. My problem is, my friends don't have systems strong enough to run it, so the only practice they get is HERE. In other words, it's not much of a race yet... :( Eldred

% Michael and Andrew. % What I understand is that you boys probably have a fraction of the time I do % racing online, and therefor don't really know what you are talking about. % The world won't end if you admit that something just might not be "perfect" % with GPL. No ONE has said GPL is perfect..... % I probably have forgotten more about online racing, the internet, and how it % all works together than you'll ever know. Rich (the original poster) could % use his ASDL line and have smooth, connect free racing with other racing % software. Simple as that really. Once you accept this fact, you can start % giving proper advice. % Rich, it's the game. If you say it often enough, it must be true. And what makes you think you know more about the Internet and networking than someone else (especially since you don't know my credentials). You also have convenient "brain-fade". As I have posted in the past that the reasons some people are experiencing this problem is many fold. Some of it is due to GPL sending and receiving more information than any other racing simulation you have used on-line. Some of it due to poorly configured ISP's or a hop somewhere on the backbone that no one has control of. Some of it due to poorly setup hardware. Some of it just damn bad luck. And for some people, I would say it is just a self-fulfilling prophecy..... % >And there, David, is the answer again for the 1400th time. If you don't % >understand it, we can't help you.... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% You are right about the 300 ping. Problem is, 300 is just fine for internet % racing in other racing software. Rich said it was just him and John. 300 % should be great with just the two of them. Rich also said he didn't like the % look of it on a LAN as well. And any other racing software can't compare to GPL. So what's your point? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% You are right about the 300 ping. Problem is, 300 is just fine for internet % racing in other racing software. Rich said it was just him and John. 300 % should be great with just the two of them. Rich also said he didn't like the % look of it on a LAN as well. 300 ping wasn't the problem, it was lost packets by the poorly configured router. I've race with worse pings than that with minor warping and never got disconnected. Why? No lost packets. The lost packets are not caused by GPL. It seems that this is one of the things about the Internet that you "forgot".... <G> % David G Fisher % >David, here`s what John wrote about the connection between him and Rich % > % >> The problem Rich has connecting to me is that the first inbound router % >> over 300ms. % > % >Now how can Papy be responsible for that ? % > % >Beers and cheers % >(uncle) Goy -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

What color are your pom-poms? David G Fisher >And any other racing software can't compare to GPL. So what's your >point?

So now it's lost packets and a 300 ping isn't the cause of the warping. Yet others in this thread are insisting a 300 ping is the problem. Or it's none of that, but actually the packet size (which the developer decides). Blah, blah, blah. David G Fisher >It seems that this is one of the things about the Internet that you >"forgot".... <G>