who's the bestest out there?

after looking at the records on http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ , i wonder who would actually outrace all of the other top fellas. it looks like these guys are the best: Wolfgang Woeger George Sandman Dave Mansell Ivo Franic Jure Zagoricnik Ian Lake Casper Gripenberg (sorry, graeme. you are ALMOST there. i'd be pulling for ya if you were racing, though!) we need to get all of these guys in a full-length series to fight it out. i've got $5 on mansell takin' it all (if graeme isn't involved). care to wager?

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> "Hot lap" times don't really interest me. It is one thing to get a sinle 1,48 > in Mexico and another doing 1:51s all day long. In my oppinion the later is > more difficult 'cos with hot laps you just need to get "lucky" for one lap (as > someone else said) and could have crashed on the previous 100 laps. > I'm not saying that "hot lappers" can't put two consistant laps togeher, > though, one lap does not tell the full story. I'd put my money on someone who > is not in this list at all... someone who has done a lot of online racing.

GO, GRAEME NASH!!!!!!

"Hot lap" times don't really interest me. It is one thing to get a sinle 1,48 in Mexico and another doing 1:51s all day long. In my oppinion the later is more difficult 'cos with hot laps you just need to get "lucky" for one lap (as someone else said) and could have crashed on the previous 100 laps. I'm not saying that "hot lappers" can't put two consistant laps togeher, though, one lap does not tell the full story. I'd put my money on someone who is not in this list at all... someone who has done a lot of online racing. Regards, David Mocnay

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>after looking at the records on http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ >, i wonder who would actually outrace all of the other top fellas. >it looks like these guys are the best: >Wolfgang Woeger >George Sandman >Dave Mansell >Ivo Franic >Jure Zagoricnik >Ian Lake >Casper Gripenberg >(sorry, graeme. you are ALMOST there. i'd be pulling for ya if you were >racing, though!) >we need to get all of these guys in a full-length series to fight it >out. >i've got $5 on mansell takin' it all (if graeme isn't involved). care to >wager?

>"Hot lap" times don't really interest me. It is one thing to get a sinle 1,48 >in Mexico and another doing 1:51s all day long. In my oppinion the later is I used to feel the same when I saw the fast lap times for GP2, setups that were only just drivable and everynow and then a lap would stick. GPL is not like that the people getting the fast laps are not just sticking 1 out of 100 laps that is so much faster than all the others. As I get better at GPL crashing becomes the exception. I very rarely do it not even in Qualifying. It is not a matter of sticking 1 lap rather go out and drive at your limit for the session and your best lap is how you qualify. Racing is just a little step back to ensure you dont make a mistake, but its only a little bit maybe a second a lap but not more. So for someone to be getting 1.48 at Mexico for your example , they are good enough to race at 1.49 Im afraid your 1.51 isnt going to cut it. Todd.

Well actually 4 of the names on that list and quite a few that should be are racing together in the Elite division of the GPL world series online league hosted by Randy Magruder http://members.home.net/rmagruder/ Racing 2 rounds at 1 track each weekend . At the first round Kyalami Race 1 Ian lake took pole with a 1.19.40 while Wolfgang Woeger won it averaging 112.9 mph Race 2 Wolfgang took the pole with a worlds fastest lap time of 1.18.90 and Doug Arnao drove a faultless race to win. Racing at this level with pro damage and short races does mean that if you make 1 little mistake you have lost you chance of winning, but you still have to average 1.20 lap times to have any chance of winning. The second round had to be put off because of a packet dropping problem with the cable. So If there is anyone one out there with a big fat PC and a fast fast internet connection who would like to be involved with the highest level of online racing contact Randy from his home page. Todd.

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>after looking at the records on http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ >, i wonder who would actually outrace all of the other top fellas. >it looks like these guys are the best: >Wolfgang Woeger >George Sandman >Dave Mansell >Ivo Franic >Jure Zagoricnik >Ian Lake >Casper Gripenberg >(sorry, graeme. you are ALMOST there. i'd be pulling for ya if you were >racing, though!) >we need to get all of these guys in a full-length series to fight it >out. >i've got $5 on mansell takin' it all (if graeme isn't involved). care to >wager?

Actually some of the driver you mentioned already compete in races against each other. Namely wolfgang, george, me, and dave if he decides to turns up :) Check out http://members.home.net:80/rmagruder/ under the elite division. or more specifically for the last 2 races at kyalami. http://members.home.net:80/rmagruder/Elite_Division/Elite_Schedule/El... http://members.home.net:80/rmagruder/Elite_Division/Elite_Schedule/El... These races are pro-short, so realistic damage is on. The races are that short because they are online races, and they are races that include people from america, europe, australia.... Disconections can be a problem. So 2 short races are better than 1 long one. I'd prefer longer races, but it would almost certainly have to be on a LAN, otherwise there would be no one left at the end due to discos. Ian Lake /\ btw, David G Fisher, have i proven i am a top sim driver yet??? /\

Do I get in on the list yet? I just sent in a 1m20.05 lap of Kyalami, and soon I'll be sending in a Zandvoort lap. My current best there is 1m25.36.... Cheers! -- Graeme Nash You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 "Useless quote"

I agree here - I run Watkins Glen hotlaps around 1m04, and run consistent mid 1m05's in online races.. Although at 28fps on my P200 the car becomes harder to control and I do have the odd spin:) Cheers! -- Graeme Nash You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 "Useless quote"

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>>after looking at the records on http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ >>, i wonder who would actually outrace all of the other top fellas. >>it looks like these guys are the best: >>Wolfgang Woeger >>George Sandman >>Dave Mansell >>Ivo Franic >>Jure Zagoricnik >>Ian Lake >>Casper Gripenberg

T.Galvin replied: --- Wow! I've been *** around Mosport for a while and finally decided to download a couple of the fastest replays to see how the experts handle it. Wolfgang Woeger seems to hold the fastest lap at most tracks including Mosport, so I had to see his lap. And the other one I downloaded was George Sandman's lap which was just a fraction slower. The most obvious realisation from watching the two replays is that these guys have COMPLETELY different styles! Wolfgang uses ALL the track and then some, occasionally running across the dirt and the grass, pumping on and off the throttle, sawing the steering wheel from side to side... He looks really busy behind the wheel! In fact, Wolfgang's lap of Mosport looks a LOT like any one of my laps, er... with the significant difference that his record lap time is several full seconds quicker than mine ever are (in those rare cases when I actually manage to complete a lap without crashing). In sharp contrast, George Sandman's lap of Mosport looks like he's out for a Sunday drive. He is unbelievably smooth and composed, never locking a tire, smoothly rolling the steering wheel into and then out of the corners, and calmly blending in just enough throttle to drift gracefully out of the turns. He appears completely and utterly unruffled and looks like he could be turning effortless laps like this all day long, while simultaneously sipping from his coffee cup and holding conversations on his cell-phone! I've been consoling myself with delusions that Wolfgang's multiple world records on nearly every track must be all be down to pure luck. He's probably just one of those 'one-lap wonders' that specialise in hot-lapping. He couldn't possibly sustain that kind of pace over a full race distance without frequent trips through the scenery, or at the very least without melting his tires. Surely in an actual race situation the calm and composed style of someone like George Sandman will always win over someone with Wolfgang's frantic style. Yet you're telling us now that, not only does Wolfgang manage to WIN online races against the world's best GPL drivers, but he also tossed in another world record fastest lap while in an ONLINE SESSION!!??!! Why do I find this so humbling? No, my self esteem is still intact. I'm certain once I buy that Cray supercomputer and practice for another 10 years, I could someday be just as good as Wolfgang. Except you'll probably be telling us next that Wolfgang runs GPL on his old ibm-XT with a 286 chip, and he steers using the keyboard... -Ferdinand- p.s. I sure would like to see a replay of one of these 'Elite' races!

Hi, just because you see names listed here in RAS or on hot-lap sites spread around the internet, don't make the mistake of thinking that those guys are the fastest in the world of sim racers. I personally know 2 guys here in Australia who could easily match the best times i have seen posted on any hot-lap site, and they do it in race mode, not hot-lap mode. Neither of these two guys have to brag about how good they are, and are not interested in who the sim racing sites say are good, or not so good. At this stage, only one of them has access to the internet, and if he ever bothers posting his times, which i doubt he ever will, it might make a few of you realise, that not every good sim racer in the world, bothers to brag about his achievements! :-) Cheers, Ron http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/

aaaaaaarrrgghhh 1:18.90 how ***y irritating !!!! :-) I thought I was getting better and not _that_ far away at 1:23.00 now he goes and does this. How? :-( -Lindsay

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> Well actually 4 of the names on that list and quite a few that should be >are racing together in the Elite division of the GPL world series online >league hosted by Randy Magruder [link lost in import] > Racing 2 rounds at 1 track each weekend . At the first round Kyalami >Race 1 Ian lake took pole with a 1.19.40 while Wolfgang Woeger won it >averaging 112.9 mph > Race 2 Wolfgang took the pole with a worlds fastest lap time of 1.18.90

and

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>Doug Arnao drove a faultless race to win. >Racing at this level with pro damage and short races does mean that if you >make 1 little mistake you have lost you chance of winning, but you still >have to average 1.20 lap times to have any chance of winning. > The second round had to be put off because of a packet dropping problem >with the cable. So If there is anyone one out there with a big fat PC and a >fast fast internet connection who would like to be involved with the

highest

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>level of online racing contact Randy from his home page. > Todd. >>after looking at the records on http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ >>, i wonder who would actually outrace all of the other top fellas. >>it looks like these guys are the best: >>Wolfgang Woeger >>George Sandman >>Dave Mansell >>Ivo Franic >>Jure Zagoricnik >>Ian Lake >>Casper Gripenberg >>(sorry, graeme. you are ALMOST there. i'd be pulling for ya if you were >>racing, though!) >>we need to get all of these guys in a full-length series to fight it >>out. >>i've got $5 on mansell takin' it all (if graeme isn't involved). care to >>wager?

1:18.90 sounds a little unrealistic to me. Excuse my scepticism, but can someone confirm this time was driven from the***pit, or that blasphemous chase view. If it was the former....kudos, and i've got some serious practicing to do.<g> If it was the latter....shame on you ;-) Cheers Phil

>I personally know 2 guys here in Australia who could easily match the >best times i have seen posted on any hot-lap site, and they do it in >race mode, not hot-lap mode. >... not every good sim racer in the world, bothers to brag about >his achievements! :-) Well actually, I'm confident that I too *could* easily match the best times, except I *could* do it on cold tires and with a full fuel tank as well. Shucks, I've probably already done it a hundred times before without even knowing because I never bother to look at my fastet lap times as that just seems much too vain. I've thought about saving a replay and posting it to the net, but then people would just think I'm bragging. ;-) Seriously though, it surely would be deeply satisfying to be gifted with a skill unlike anyone else in the world. But if I ever managed to set a lap time better than any of the current world's best, I would *EXPLODE* if forced to keep it a secret! -Ferdinand-

> p.s. I sure would like to see a replay of one of these 'Elite' races! here here. post a replay you guys, or put one up on a site somewhere. sigh. i feel like an impotent guy who has to resort to watching ***s.

>> p.s. I sure would like to see a replay of one of these 'Elite' races! >here here. post a replay you guys, or put one up on a site somewhere. sigh. i >feel like an impotent guy who has to resort to watching ***s. At the moment the races in this class have not been worth watching:-( My last 3 races have been disasters the first 2 lasted less than 10 seconds and the 3rd only 4 laps. We are still coming to terms with racing together in a field where qualifying is spread by only 2 seconds. At the last race Monaco there were 8 cars under 1.29. As well as this we have to deal with the lag caused by races from all over the world. I am sure with time the races will start living up to the quality of the competitors but for now the practice sessions are just amazing, 30 minutes to get in the fastest lap you can and man do the lap times tumble. Nearly every pole is well below the times on the hotlaps boards Wolfgang, Lake and Sandman swap the lead for the entire time while the rest of us scramble for that 4th position, which I was lucky enough to pick up at our last race. I think everyone inspires each other at the time to pull out their best time and I know allot of my personal best times have come in these sessions. One thing I have noticed about qualifying at this level is that you rarely see anyone, unlike pickup races where you have to pass 4 cars in a lap to get a good time. Once you get your little patch of track everyone seems to spread out and you are able to get in some good laps. Zandvort next weekend Im sure will be a good race , especially now I can see a 1.24 is possible Todd.

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> I used to feel the same when I saw the fast lap times for GP2, setups that > were only just drivable and everynow and then a lap would stick. > GPL is not like that the people getting the fast laps are not just sticking > 1 out of 100 laps that is so much faster than all the others. As I get > better at GPL crashing becomes the exception. I very rarely do it not even > in Qualifying. It is not a matter of sticking 1 lap rather go out and drive > at your limit for the session and your best lap is how you qualify. Racing > is just a little step back to ensure you dont make a mistake, but its only > a little bit maybe a second a lap but not more. So for someone to be getting > 1.48 at Mexico for your example , they are good enough to race at 1.49 Im > afraid your 1.51 isnt going to cut it.

I beg to differ. An example being the last on-line race we held at Rouen. Prelim times were 2:01 and 2:02 for the pole and second starting spot. One of those was a DNF; the other took the flag, but at a greatly reduced pace. My 2:06 was good enough for second at the finish...with a consistent lap time of 2:07 in the race. Hotlapping and racing are two different things. Hotlapping times don't apply to racing at all; you don't have traffic to contend with, as well as latency induced by on-line play, with all the *** things it brings with it. With enough time, effort, and a good machine, anyone can drive fast laps in an off-line situation. Put them in a real race and the times come way down. The real skill becomes apparent in a field of like competitors on the grid line...that's what separates the men from the boys. Brent Martin GMSS Division 2 Lotus/Grey

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>"Hot lap" times don't really interest me. It is one thing to get a sinle 1,48 >in Mexico and another doing 1:51s all day long. In my oppinion the later is >more difficult 'cos with hot laps you just need to get "lucky" for one lap (as >someone else said) and could have crashed on the previous 100 laps. >I'm not saying that "hot lappers" can't put two consistant laps togeher, >though, one lap does not tell the full story. I'd put my money on someone who >is not in this list at all... someone who has done a lot of online racing.

And you shouldn't say that either, since at least some of these hot lappers are really good race drivers too. For example the Finnish GPL Championships started last Sunday and Casper Gripenberg was leading the race (Mexico) from the start with constant 1:48 - 1:49 lap times. We race with realistic damage. I on the other hand qualified badly being the 15th on the grid (16 drivers total) with a lap time of 1:52:xx and crashed on the first lap with an unfortunate accident with another driver. The FGPLC homepages with results and race reports are here: http://www.netlife.fi/users/henrikki.hakkanen/fgplc/ -Juha --