Overclocking?

With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox etc > higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the cpu's case on some motherboards jumpers . either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the logic in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement in the video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can use a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to overheat the CPU as bad . With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

Exactly I couldn't agree more Of course I'm asking for it now Blayne

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>Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox >etc > >higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the >cpu's case on some >motherboards jumpers . >either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the logic >in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my >statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement >in the >video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU >overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a >higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can >use >a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to >overheat the CPU as bad . >With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this >question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

so how do u chang the bus speed ps would overclocking improve my system p2 233 64mb voodoo 2 riva 128 i intend to chang the cpu in abou 6 months , could overclocking reduce the life of my cpu to that sort of time ?

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>Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox >etc > >higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the >cpu's case on some >motherboards jumpers . >either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the logic >in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my >statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement >in the >video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU >overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a >higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can >use >a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to >overheat the CPU as bad . >With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this >question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

O.K. , before this turns in to a debate about the value of over clocking. The info that you want can be found here -------->http://www.tomshardware.com/ I use a P166 overclocked to 225mhz and a mildly over clocked Rendition Vid card. If I were to leave the CPU at the factory rated clock speed I would be unable to run certain games (GPL, Quake2 for example). I've made no special modifications for cooling and have had no heat related problems. It works for me. For some people it doesn't .If you are satisfied with the performance of you current system, leave it alone.

Here's a good newsgroup for you, if you want to learn about overclocking: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking I picked up a lot of info there, and successfully overclocked my Celeron 300A to 450. It made a BIG difference in GPL. Check it out... > With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this > question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

In the CPU case you cite, it's *Celerons* (not PIIs) being overclocked from 300 to 450 MHz. And this *is* done by overclocking the bus. It's the *only* way to overclock Celerons (since the CPU is *locked* at 4.5x bus speed [in the case of the 300]). Do you have *any* idea what you're talking about? And why do I keep typing these *asterisks*?... ;) Another contender for the "font of misinformation" title. :) Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO, since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at 100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so you don't risk data loss. YMMV. From a happy Celeron 300A/450A user... NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Jeff I speak in general about the CPU issue as we all know that different system configurations yield different results . I didnt list the celeron outright I listed the P2 for the very reason you mention I dont have experience with the celeron and I do know certain p2 chips sold as 300's can actually be overclocked to 450 with no problems . Take a look at the post I was responding to and you will see why I didnt blow the guy away with statistics . He was asking a general overclocking question , to be exact he asked WHAT overclocking was - If he had said "I have a celeron chip " I wouldn't have touched it . Save your negative posts for the alt.lookingfora***. newsgroup You will also notice that I was more critical of video card overclocking - you deal with risks-vs- gains and the overclocking of video cards in GENERAL yields little for the risk involved . I speak from having had Trident -Rendition<1000 & 2000 series> -voodoo & voodoo 2 chip card s and have tried various methods of performance enhancing on all . I speak from experience there sir . In the CPU case you cite, it's *Celerons* (not PIIs) being overclocked from 300 to 450 MHz. And this *is* done by overclocking the bus. It's the *only* way to overclock Celerons (since the CPU is *locked* at 4.5x bus speed [in the case of the 300]). Do you have *any* idea what you're talking about? And why do I keep typing these *asterisks*?... ;) Another contender for the "font of misinformation" title. :) Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO, since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at 100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so you don't risk data loss. YMMV. From a happy Celeron 300A/450A user... NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

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>>either way its a risk - especially with video cards ... >>a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement... >>overheat the CPU ... > Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO, >since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at >100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so >you don't risk data loss. YMMV. From a happy Celeron 300A/450A >user...

Please don't bite me, I'm a complete newbie at this overclocking stuff. I'm just happy my computer runs at all. As suggested, I will check out what's being posted in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking. But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a significant speed increase for your computer without risk of serious harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way directly from the manufacturer? What's the catch? -Ferdinand-

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>Please don't bite me, I'm a complete newbie at this overclocking >stuff. I'm just happy my computer runs at all. As suggested, I will >check out what's being posted in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking. >But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a >significant speed increase for your computer without risk of serious >harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way >directly from the manufacturer? >What's the catch?

In the case of the Celerons, Intel used Pentium II cores that were rated at a significantly higher speed than was required. Why? Hard to say, but probably it simply was the cheapest and most available parts for them to use. Sometimes we consumers get lucky. :) Overclocking usually doesn't result in such a big increase. Typically, overclocking only one or two notches above the rated speed is possible (sometimes not even that). This Celeron thing is a bit of an anomaly. But it seems 75-90% (depending on who you believe) of the Celeron 300As can be overclocked to 450 MHz. Why aren't they rated at that level? First, Intel doesn't sell Celeron 450s (yet :), so it would be a new model to support. If they did sell them, they would have to be rock-solid reliable at 450 MHz, not "4 out of 5 times it'll work". Chips are often tested to slightly higher speeds, then rated at a lower speed, to ensure stability. As far as risk, yes, there is some. First, you are voiding any warranty by overclocking (whether the manufacturer or vendor would *know* you did so is another issue). Second, overclocking generates more heat, which can lead to software errors or hardware failure (in extreme cases). Overclocking the 300A to 450 sometimes requires higher voltage, adding more heat. Third, in the long-term, electro-migration can damage the CPU, but that's on the order of years, generally not a problem. As far as managing the risk, be on the look-out for system lockups, which can be a sign of CPU distress. Monitor your hardware (the Abit BH6 motherboard and the Motherbaord Monitor software can allow you to monitor case temperature and set alarms if it becomes excessive). The Celerons seem to be pretty happy with their standard fan/heat sink combo, but some people invest in additional cooling (try the 3dfxCool web site). Be prudent -- I only overclock when I need it for GPL online racing and I run at a lowly 300 MHz the rest of the time. Hope that answers some of your questions. Check Tom's Hardware, Anand Tech, and some of the other Celeron & general hardware & overclocking sites for more info. You pretty much have to build your own PC (or have a friend do it for you) to get the right parts, but its something that can be learned on the 'net. NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

> But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a > significant speed increase for your computer without risk of serious > harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way > directly from the manufacturer? Marketing, plus the chips in some cases might not run at that higher speed quite reliably in all situations. The overclocking newsgroups and sites describe the (market) mechanisms behind this. The Celeron 300A working at 450 in almost all cases is pretty much an exception. (I mean the fact that almost all C300A:s work at 450). -- Anssi Lehtinen

> >>either way its a risk - especially with video cards ... > >>a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement...

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> >>overheat the CPU ... > > Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO, > >since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at > >100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz,

so

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> >you don't risk data loss. YMMV. From a happy Celeron 300A/450A > >user... > Please don't bite me, I'm a complete newbie at this overclocking > stuff. I'm just happy my computer runs at all. As suggested, I > will > check out what's being posted in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking. > But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a > significant speed increase for your computer without risk of

serious > harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way > directly from the manufacturer? > What's the catch? The manufacturers would rather sell you faster cpus for more money (whiich are basically the same cpu's at higher busspeeds or using higher multipliers). The manufacturers also have very strict standards which their cpu,s should meet, if a cpu fails on even a small part of the testing procedure, it will be sold as a slower cpu, even if to all intents and purposes it will actually run fine at a higher speed. This ensures the manufacturers sell very stable cpu's. 8-) *Peter* #:-)

Overclocking the system bus *is* overclocking the processor, and has all the same heat-associated risks as increasing the CPU multiplier beyond specification. Further, overclocking the system bus in most (not all) systems also overclocks PCI and AGP devices (like video cards, etc.), which in turn will likely increase heat generated by such devices (or they may not even function properly). That said, the underlying statement that increasing the bus speed provides better performance vs. increasing the CPU multiplier is true in the majority (not all) cases; it depends upon system application. The heat delta generated in an overclocked system varies, with many dependant (What processor and motherboard/chipset combination are you overclocking?) and independent variables (How's the airflow in the case? Do you have ribbon cables blocking airflow, and limiting heat dissipation?). Yes, in many (not all) configurations an additional case fan (or two) may be required to bring heat dissipation (sp?) levels back within spec. -- Philip M. D'Amato "You can observe a lot just by watchin'" --The Inimitable Yogi Berra >Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox >etc > >higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the >cpu's case on some >motherboards jumpers . >either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the logic >in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my >statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement >in the >video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU >overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a >higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can >use >a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to >overheat the CPU as bad . >With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this >question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

>so how do u chang the bus speed Through BIOS settings, jumpers, or DIP switches - depending upon your motherboard. If your system can be overclocked (it's not guaranteed to work), you could start by going to 266Mhz. You need to understand the two factors that determine your processor speed: system bus speed and the CPU multiplier. A P2 233 runs at 66Mhz on the system bus with a CPU multiplier of 3.5 (66 x 3.5 = 233). Depending upon your motherboard and processor, you could start slowly be adjusting your CPU multiplier to 4.0, yielding 266 Mhz. Alternately, you could (starting slowly) increase your system bus to 75Mhz (probably do-able), yielding 75 x 3.5 = 266 (increasing the system bus usually yields better real-life performance, but also increases the clock on everything attached to the system bus, e.g., PCI devices, etc.). More information is available elsewhere, but this is a start. Finally, you should realize that performance comes at a price, and may damage your system components. Search the Web and look for overclocking newsgroups to gather more information to weigh the risks vs. benefits. Intel's heat and voltage specifications! I've been fortunate). Assuming you don't blow your system, overclocking doesn't 'shorten the life of the CPU' in terms you're thinking of. What I mean is, systems running at higher and higher frequencies (Mhz) will experience circuit degradation as a result of what is essentially erosion of the electrical conduits. The question is whether this degradation is an issue over the *useful* life of the processor/motherboard/etc. Useful life of a processor defined here as the length of time before you upgrade or buy a new system. Six months sounds like a pretty short time (in terms of the degradation I describe) before your next upgrade, and unless you try to run your 233 at stupid rates, I don't think this is an issue.

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>>Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox >>etc > >>higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the >>cpu's case on some >>motherboards jumpers . >>either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the

logic >>in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my >>statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement

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>>in the >>video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU >>overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a >>higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can >>use >>a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to >>overheat the CPU as bad . >>With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this >>question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

Philip M. D'Amato "You can observe a lot just by watchin'" --The Inimitable Yogi Berra

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>>>either way its a risk - especially with video cards ... >>>a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement... >>>overheat the CPU ... >> Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO, >>since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at >>100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so >>you don't risk data loss. YMMV. From a happy Celeron 300A/450A >>user... >Please don't bite me, I'm a complete newbie at this overclocking >stuff. I'm just happy my computer runs at all. As suggested, I will >check out what's being posted in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking. >But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a >significant speed increase for your computer without risk of serious >harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way >directly from the manufacturer? >What's the catch?

The catch? Overclocking isn't guaranteed to work - for the manufacturer, or the end-user. The definition (mine) of overclocking is specifically running the processor (or other system clock-driven component) beyond manufacturer's specifications. Example: Intel designed the Celeron 300A to run reliably on a 66Mhz bus with a CPU multiplier of 4.5. I happen to be lucky enough to have a Celeron 300A that is happy to run on a 100Mhz system bus, yielding 450Mhz - and costing about $450 less (at time of purchase) than a 'true' PII-450. This is not true for every 300A system. There's more detail to this story, but this is the gist. And this is r.a.s. -- Philip M. D'Amato "You can observe a lot just by watchin'" --The Inimitable Yogi Berra

<snip> Jeff, all good points, but I'd like to clarify what I *think* is a misunderstanding regarding Intel processor warranties. That said, I would hope and expect that if I'm incorrect that someone would point me to a correct source. Here's my observation regarding Intel warranties on processors. I cannot find reference from Intel indicating that overclocking itself voids warranties, though I do find references that Intel does not recommend the practice. see http://www.intel.com/procs/support/faqs/iarcfaq.htm I can find references to processor specifications regarding core voltage requirements and temperature (core and ambient). In short, I believe that overclocking a processor while remaining at the specified core voltage (2.0 volts for my Celeron 300A) and remaining under x degrees Celsius (measured at specified locations near the processor) will not void the warranty. <snip> Nice to give credit to Tom - though lately he's been under flak from the online community ('Tom's sold out!" being the usual statement). Tom's site started my overclocking hobby - and taught me a lot about hardware (mostly chipsets) that I didn't know (back when it was pretty much just him writing for the site hosted at sysdoc.pair.com). >NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more... Jeff, all good points, but I've always questioned the very common conception regarding Intel's warranties. I've looked at Intel's warranty statements online, and I just don't find even vague references to overclocking as a pre-condition for remaining within warranty. However, I will note that overclocking the system bus will, in many cases (not all) run PCI and AGP buses beyond their specifications, possibly voiding the warranty on non-processor components - but this depends on the warranty given by those component manufacturers, and I am not familiar with warranty policy on all PCI or AGP products available. -- Philip M. D'Amato "You can observe a lot just by watchin'" --The Inimitable Yogi Berra