GPL- Am I the Worst

My question is 'Am I the worst driver playing GPL?' Been playing it since release in the UK. Great game and I have practised every night, with all the right gear (using my MSFF wheel) and recommended set-ups downloaded from the net (and a very fast computer, so not excuses there). BUT, I am still so poor compared to some of the posts that I read here. If I can run Silverstone in 1.37 in the 'Cooper', I've done well, but trying to consecutively run 20-30 laps is impossible without crashing. And as for a race, passing cars usually results in me hitting them, (them hitting me) or me then being too fast to enter a bend and crashing. I'm not bleating about the situation - its definitely me not GPL, I just wanted to let off steam. If I'm not going to win anything in GPL, perhaps I can win the 'Worst GPL Driver' award (unless anyone can top my pathetic record????) PJ

Hi Paul I'm no expert either but I noted one point in your message, about you being too fast entering a bend. I remember reading in the manual about going in slow and coming out fast. Maybe try to go in a little slower and power out. It's not those who go into the turns the fastest, but those who come out the fastest who are going to turn the quicker laps. At Silverstone I only go as low as third gear. 2nd makes for to much wheel spin under power. Even in 3rd she lets go from time to time. -- Redline Race Controls Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

Something that "seemed" to work for me (as i'm still an infant in GPL) was the AI Tweak Utility. While the trainers can be raced, I found such an immense difference between the trainers and the GP cars that I wanted a different kind of breaking in period. By my "slowing" down (about 10-20%) of the AI cars I was able to stay in the pack and actually PASS some of them at speeds I could handle while still staying on the track. It (the AI speed) has a great deal of adjustability, and after a while you will find yourself moving it up toward the defaults again. Again, this, combined with some downloaded setups, reading HOW and WHY the setups work, advanced me faster (IMHO) than running around with underpowered cars, but of course YMMV... Thing is to ENJOY GPL, and for me the enjoyment started when I started actually racing WITH the AI instead of being shattered by it.. G. Patricks

I'm sorry buddy, but I'm sure that I am worse than you are! :) I have yet to make 4 consecutive laps without crashing, even at Monza! I have practiced at least an hour almost every day since it was released in the US and I still suck! I'm a hell of a lot better at GP2 and F1RS. I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this, but I'm giving up on GPL. The problem I have is this: It doesn't matter how realistic a sim is, it is still not real enough. Until I have a VR***pit that simulates the actual sensations of speeds and cornering, I will never master computer sims like this one. In a real race car you can "feel" everything. You know exactly how far you can push your car. In a computer sim it is all memorization. You memorize how far you can push your car in each corner, and I must have a really bad memory! :) There is no way a sim can produce the sensations that are required to make it feel real to me. Don't get me wrong, I think Papyrus did an outstanding job on GPL. I just don't know where people get the time to get good enough to have fun with it. I have enjoyed almost every racing sim that has ever been released until this one. I have driven and raced some pretty powerful cars in real life, and I have been fairly competitive on the NROS, but this thing completely kicks my ass! :) I'm glad everyone else is enjoying it though! Brett

post your times, amigo. show us how sorry you really are. i'm pretty dang bad myself, but at least we can still improve in leaps and bounds! these other guys are worried about hundredths of a second. we're more concerned with 2 or 3 seconds, right? j

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> My question is 'Am I the worst driver playing GPL?' > Been playing it since release in the UK. Great game and > I have practised every night, with all the right gear (using my MSFF wheel) > and recommended set-ups downloaded from the net (and a very fast computer, > so not excuses there). BUT, I am still so poor compared to some of the posts > that I read here. > If I can run Silverstone in 1.37 in the 'Cooper', I've done well, but trying > to consecutively run 20-30 laps is impossible without crashing. And as for a > race, passing cars usually results in me hitting them, (them hitting me) or > me then being too fast to enter a bend and crashing. > I'm not bleating about the situation - its definitely me not GPL, I just > wanted to let off steam. > If I'm not going to win anything in GPL, perhaps I can win the 'Worst GPL > Driver' award (unless anyone can top my pathetic record????) > PJ

Thanks everyone for your posts - having read them I'm glad that there are others in a similar position. I'm going to give it a few more weeks practice. Perhaps I'll post some lap times then if things get better, and we can all see whether we've improved or not. Here's hoping. PJ

I had exactly the same problem mentioned until a kind gentleman reminded me of what it says in the book. Start out by trying to be consistent, not fast. I had to FORCE myself to slow down and just try to hit a certain level each lap, one that was well below my best time. Oddly enough, I had no trouble hitting that goal consistently and even more oddly, once I got some confidence in my driving my times began to improve along with my consistency. Now don't get me wrong, I still really suck, but it's really a neat feeling to string 10 laps at a good speed together at Monza or the Glen. After that, you start to realize it can be done and just takes practice. Joe

I would be happy with 5 or 10 seconds!!! :)

LOL. Go do some more laps. Believe me, the better sim racers have done zillions of laps in numerous sims. There is no magical way to get better. After a few zillion laps you simply get the feel.

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> My question is 'Am I the worst driver playing GPL?' > Been playing it since release in the UK. Great game and > I have practised every night, with all the right gear (using my MSFF wheel) > and recommended set-ups downloaded from the net (and a very fast computer, > so not excuses there). BUT, I am still so poor compared to some of the posts > that I read here. > If I can run Silverstone in 1.37 in the 'Cooper', I've done well, but trying > to consecutively run 20-30 laps is impossible without crashing. And as for a > race, passing cars usually results in me hitting them, (them hitting me) or > me then being too fast to enter a bend and crashing. > I'm not bleating about the situation - its definitely me not GPL, I just > wanted to let off steam. > If I'm not going to win anything in GPL, perhaps I can win the 'Worst GPL > Driver' award (unless anyone can top my pathetic record????) > PJ

-- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

% Thanks everyone for your posts - having read them I'm glad that % there are others in a similar position. % I'm going to give it a few more weeks practice. Perhaps % I'll post some lap times then if things get better, and we can all see % whether % we've improved or not. Here's hoping. % PJ There are alot of things at play for getting the handle on GPL. 1) CPU horsepower 2) graphics horsepower 3) controller precision The faster your computer and graphics card is, the easier you will find it to climb the plateaus in GPL. That's right, there are plateaus in GPL. It seems that there is a huge struggle to get to plateau and the next higher plateau is even harder to achieve. But guess what, this is exactly true in auto racing (except for the very few extremeley talented and gifted racers). You also need a good controlling system (i.e., wheels and pedals -- or at least joystick and pedals). That's where the consistency comes from, precise controllers. Especially throttle and brake control. This is the key to getting around most GPL circuits. To be fast and consistent you will find that most of your real control over the car is with your feet. I know exactly where some of you are at, the frustration level is high. Just last night, as I raced on-line via VROC, I was amazed at my ability to stay on the track and be fast at the Glen and Monza (where most of my seat time -- or feet time has been). I was flashing back to when I could only get one good lap out of 30 at 1:10 at the Glen. Now, don't get me wrong, I am still far from being the fastest or the most consistent (but a string of race laps in the mid to low 1:07's are pretty good). Anyway, as I ramble, the main point I'm trying to make, it will and can come, but stop trying to go fast until you learn to "feel" the car and the track. Step back and grab Alison's Coventry setups <http://nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/coventry.htm> and learn what a good setup feels like and how to attack a certain track. Work on consistency and sooner or later speed and even more speed will come. For quite some time (here he goes again, rambling....), I tried to be FAST, and read all of the tips on where to brake and where to turn at the Glen. Well, guess what, everytime I tried applying these late braking points and turning points, the worse I got, honest. So I gave it up and just concentrated on being consistent, once I got the "feel" down (and this is important, you need to have a "feel" for the car and the track), I found that my times have increased (race fast lap at the Glen 1:06.42). And also, low and behold, I was actually braking at those magical late braking points. For an inexpensive, but precise controller, I would recommend the Thrustmaster NASCAR Super Sport wheel and pedal combination. It has helped me alot in finding the sweet zone in GPL. [sorry for the rambling incoherent post...] -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>I'm sorry buddy, but I'm sure that I am worse than you are! :) I have yet >to make 4 consecutive laps without crashing, even at Monza! I have >practiced at least an hour almost every day since it was released in the US >and I still suck! I'm a hell of a lot better at GP2 and F1RS. snip nip Another good thing with GPL is once you've got the hang of driving those cars you'll get much better at both gp2 and f1rs. At least this was the case with my driving style: going back to MGP or GP2 seems easy after finally breaking the 1:10 barrier at the Glen. ;-) Uwe -- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

Same here: my "best" lap at the Ring is a 11:00. ;-) This game is truely awesome, and I'll definitely enjoy it in the years to come (although I'd enjoy a native linux port even more ;-) cheers, uwe -- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

Hmmm, I thought I was the worst ever at GPL.... Everyone should head over to Eagle Woman's GPL website and download her setups for the Coventry and then see how bad you are. After fighting with the Ferrari and Lotus, mainly at Monza, I was ready to give up on racing other people. Well, using those setups, I have been able to actually piece together a string of laps without ending up in the sand or bushes. My first 10 laps all yielded times 10 seconds lower than my previous best in the Lotus and I still have a ways to go. Lap after lap, I can shave a couple of tenths here and there. Everyone head on over and give them a try and while your there be sure to thank her for her efforts! http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/index.htm

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> LOL. Go do some more laps. Believe me, the better sim racers have done zillions of laps > in numerous sims. There is no magical way to get better. After a few zillion laps you > simply get the feel. > > My question is 'Am I the worst driver playing GPL?' > > Been playing it since release in the UK. Great game and > > I have practised every night, with all the right gear (using my MSFF wheel) > > and recommended set-ups downloaded from the net (and a very fast computer, > > so not excuses there). BUT, I am still so poor compared to some of the posts > > that I read here. > > If I can run Silverstone in 1.37 in the 'Cooper', I've done well, but trying > > to consecutively run 20-30 laps is impossible without crashing. And as for a > > race, passing cars usually results in me hitting them, (them hitting me) or > > me then being too fast to enter a bend and crashing. > > I'm not bleating about the situation - its definitely me not GPL, I just > > wanted to let off steam. > > If I'm not going to win anything in GPL, perhaps I can win the 'Worst GPL > > Driver' award (unless anyone can top my pathetic record????) > > PJ > -- > Byron Forbes > Captain of Team Lightning Bolt > http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS > and > http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

writes:

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>Something that "seemed" to work for me (as i'm still an infant in GPL) >was the AI Tweak Utility. While the trainers can be raced, I found >such an immense difference between the trainers and the GP cars that I >wanted a different kind of breaking in period. By my "slowing" down >(about 10-20%) of the AI cars I was able to stay in the pack and >actually PASS some of them at speeds I could handle while still >staying on the track. It (the AI speed) has a great deal of >adjustability, and after a while you will find yourself moving it up >toward the defaults again. Again, this, combined with some downloaded >setups, reading HOW and WHY the setups work, advanced me faster (IMHO) >than running around with underpowered cars, but of course YMMV... >Thing is to ENJOY GPL, and for me the enjoyment started when I started >actually racing WITH the AI instead of being shattered by it..

Can ANYONE beat the standard AI with the standard cars? My best at Monza(Eagle default), while improving at a 1:32.66, is still WAY off Clark's 1:30-1:31's...pauvre moi. :) Eldred

>LOL. Go do some more laps. Believe me, the better sim racers have done >zillions of laps >in numerous sims. There is no magical way to get better. After a few zillion >laps you >simply get the feel. A few ZILLION?!? Don't these people have a LIFE??? <g> Eldred

I have (tried Alison's Coventry setups), and I did (thank her). One other quick thought. Alison writes in her Driving help article, "I never feel really comfortable until I've done at least 500 laps at any track". That should say it all.

Don't know about winning, though, I got 1:30.8 in the Lutus and 1:31.4 with the Ferrari at Monza with the standard cars. Also, I haven't really pushed them at this track that much... I just played a lot of Monza in the demo. BTW, you might want to change the gear rations to suit you better. Regards, David Mocnay

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>writes: >>Something that "seemed" to work for me (as i'm still an infant in GPL) >>was the AI Tweak Utility. While the trainers can be raced, I found >>such an immense difference between the trainers and the GP cars that I >>wanted a different kind of breaking in period. By my "slowing" down >>(about 10-20%) of the AI cars I was able to stay in the pack and >>actually PASS some of them at speeds I could handle while still >>staying on the track. It (the AI speed) has a great deal of >>adjustability, and after a while you will find yourself moving it up >>toward the defaults again. Again, this, combined with some downloaded >>setups, reading HOW and WHY the setups work, advanced me faster (IMHO) >>than running around with underpowered cars, but of course YMMV... >>Thing is to ENJOY GPL, and for me the enjoyment started when I started >>actually racing WITH the AI instead of being shattered by it.. >Can ANYONE beat the standard AI with the standard cars? My best at Monza(Eagle >default), while improving at a 1:32.66, is still WAY off Clark's >1:30-1:31's...pauvre moi. :) >Eldred

Thue in some cases. Though, now that I feel that I know the car quiete well (after few hunred laps on numerous tracks), I get get reasonable lap times and consistancy on any given track no matter how new it is to me within 15-20 laps. I'm talking about 1-2 seconds of the Jim Clark's times in the game. This is not a testiment of "how good I am" but really how good the game is... I'm comfortable driving in GPL by the "seat of pants" (ie. the feel/ feedback from the game) now that I know the car and it takes a very short time to learn layout of tracks if you can drive by "feel" and concentrate on the track. Best regards, David Mocnay >I have (tried Alison's Coventry setups), and I did (thank her). >One other quick thought. Alison writes in her Driving help article, "I never >feel really comfortable until I've done at least 500 laps at any track". >That should say it all.

Excellent post, MC. I went thru this with GP2... consistency, consistency, consistency -- the key to winning races. Plus the plateau thing. Anyone frustrated with GPL, just quit trying to go fast and just go consistent. You'll start noticing things... places to brake a bit later... places to accelerate a bit sooner... different places to turn in on entry to a corner, different lines to take other than the 'printed' ones on the track. But, if you don't have consistency at slower lap times, you won't be able to discern the miniscule advantages that add up to faster lap times. Given a couple thousand laps at a particular track, you'll be a mental wreck after completing a long race in the top 3 amongst good drivers. In other words, the concentration level is high, as is the penalty for wool gathering <g> And, as you said -- a decent controller and a high FPS is a must to run well. Memory fades, but it took me about 2-4 months to get up to winning semi-pro level (vs. the AI) in GP2.... and I was no stranger to F1/Indycar sims. For those that don't know GP2, there are two skill levels above that.... Rgds, Mark R. (wishing for wings ;-) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:00:41 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

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>% Thanks everyone for your posts - having read them I'm glad that >% there are others in a similar position. >% I'm going to give it a few more weeks practice. Perhaps >% I'll post some lap times then if things get better, and we can all see >% whether >% we've improved or not. Here's hoping. >% PJ >There are alot of things at play for getting the handle on GPL. >1) CPU horsepower >2) graphics horsepower >3) controller precision >The faster your computer and graphics card is, the easier you will find >it to climb the plateaus in GPL. That's right, there are plateaus in >GPL. It seems that there is a huge struggle to get to plateau and the >next higher plateau is even harder to achieve. But guess what, this is >exactly true in auto racing (except for the very few extremeley talented >and gifted racers). You also need a good controlling system (i.e., >wheels and pedals -- or at least joystick and pedals). >That's where the consistency comes from, precise controllers. >Especially throttle and brake control. This is the key to getting >around most GPL circuits. To be fast and consistent you will find that >most of your real control over the car is with your feet. >I know exactly where some of you are at, the frustration level is high. >Just last night, as I raced on-line via VROC, I was amazed at my ability >to stay on the track and be fast at the Glen and Monza (where most of my >seat time -- or feet time has been). I was flashing back to when I >could only get one good lap out of 30 at 1:10 at the Glen. Now, don't >get me wrong, I am still far from being the fastest or the most >consistent (but a string of race laps in the mid to low 1:07's are >pretty good). >Anyway, as I ramble, the main point I'm trying to make, it will and >can come, but stop trying to go fast until you learn to "feel" the car >and the track. Step back and grab Alison's Coventry setups ><http://nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/coventry.htm> and learn what a good >setup feels like and how to attack a certain track. Work on consistency >and sooner or later speed and even more speed will come. >For quite some time (here he goes again, rambling....), I tried to be >FAST, and read all of the tips on where to brake and where to turn at >the Glen. Well, guess what, everytime I tried applying these late >braking points and turning points, the worse I got, honest. So I gave >it up and just concentrated on being consistent, once I got the "feel" >down (and this is important, you need to have a "feel" for the car and >the track), I found that my times have increased (race fast lap at the >Glen 1:06.42). And also, low and behold, I was actually braking at >those magical late braking points. >For an inexpensive, but precise controller, I would recommend the >Thrustmaster NASCAR Super Sport wheel and pedal combination. It has >helped me alot in finding the sweet zone in GPL. >[sorry for the rambling incoherent post...] >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

That's part of the problem. Out of ALL the setup info(ICR,ICR2,NCR,N2,GP1 & 2) I've seen,read,been told, I understand about 15-20% of it. I guess I'm just 'automotive challenged'. :) The only time I've made an adjustment that really worked was in NCR(Bristol). I changed the crossweight to some outrageous setting. The car was a real BEAR to drive for about 7 or 8 laps. After that, I was EASILY the fastest thing on the track. To this day, I do NOT understand what I did, or why it worked... Eldred