Do they think we're stupid?

I've been reading the discussion about GPL's degree of difficulty with some interest, and would like to suggest a slightly different way of looking at this. There can be no argument that GPL is a very difficult game, and for most people it takes longer to get up to speed in GPL than in other, previous, racing sims. That, too, is my experience, and I am still struggling along towards the back of the filed. But my times ARE improving, albeit slowly. When I force myself to practice methodically, I do reap the rewards via steadilt decreasing lap times. Which lets me remain optimistic that, given enough time, I shall one day be up there with Messrs Clarke, Hulme et al. However, it will still be quite a while before I get that quick. I have an Interact V3 wheel and pedals, which is pretty horrible but all I can afford at the moment. Originally I was using a K6233 with a Voodoo1 card. When GPL came out I bought an 8MB Thriller. This led to a big improvement in frame rates, but still could not really manage any AI cars, without turning virtually all the graphics off. So I still felt a large part of my inabilty to control my car was due to system limitations and the fluctuating frame rate. It was at this time that GPL's inflexibilty really started to irritate me. If I picked only 5 AI cars (and more than that was virtually unplayable due to frame rate), GPL gave me the 5 quickest - who I couldn't even get close to in races. So I could forget about racing. Well how stupid! Why the heck doesn't the game allow me, via the menu to system, to select the particular AI opponents I wish to race against? And, yes, I did download Alison Hine's tweaked driver.ini files, and was able to use my own version of one of them to get the opponents I wanted. But it should not have been necessary. The time I spent downloading the files, working out where to put them, reading read me's and FAQs and ini files, and making changes by trial and error - that's all time I should have been playing the game. Why isn't this capability an integral part of the game, allowing the player to select the required opponents, set their speed and so on? Why can't the player set the difficulty as he/she sees fit? It's not like I'm alone in wanting to be able to make these sort of changes. What's the first software programs written after a new sim is releases? Invariably programs such as Steven Young's superb GP2Edit (or F1RSrays for Ubisoft's F1RS). And it was only after installing GP2Edit that I was able to really enjoy and get absorbed in GP2 because at last I could slow the AI down to my level of incompetence ;). So from the moment I installed GPL I was searching this forum and the various web pages for some clever person to have produced a program to "fix" GPL. And ever since I installed Kari Ikonen's first, fairly rudimentary version, of GPL AI Tweak, I have been able to alter GPL so that now in my races I AM actually RACING! As I improve, so too can I increase the performace of the AI cars. The latest version, 1.3, allows numerous other tweaks to the AI performance. Now you may consider that I would improve more quickly if I forgot about racing for a while, and just got up to speed via training, as recommended in the manual. And you're probably right. But, so what? I wouldn't enjoy myself as much, and, for me, that's the whole point. Eventually, after enough races, I will improve. But this is how I choose to spend the time I have playing GPL. So why the heck does Papyrus insist on ramming its preferences down every player's throat, and make it so difficult to take a different approach? Before people start replying with comments like "There's no satisfaction beating the AI if it has been slowed down" or "Stick to arcade games" or "this is SIMULATION, so we can't possibly allow players to control anything" - that just misses the point. I'm not suggesting the physics be comprimised in any way at all, nor that it be made easier for me to control my own car. Indeed, I feel the responsiveness of one's own car is what makes GPL the best sim ever released by a long way. Of course one day I hope to be able to beat full strength AI cars - and race successfully online. And I acknowledge that is is only then that I will really have beaten the AI cars. But in the meantime I can steadily improve my lap times, and, more importantly, my overall race times, whilst at the same time having some fantastic duesl with cars travelling at roughly the same speed: provided there is a way to set the AI at a level appropriate for me. Some people prefer to improve "by themselves", and may feel they get a greater sense of satisfaction when they do, finally, get quick enough to challenge for the lead. Fair enough, that's their decision and I can respect that. I just feel everyone should be permitted to make their own decision about how they wish to play the game, and that the game developer should facilitate that, not make it difficult to take a different approach, as they do at present. Over the past 12 months (the sum total of my time involved with PC games), I've become more and more irritated by the "we know what's best for you" attitude of the developers. I think it is almost a form of arrogance: they spend years developing their "baby" and become convinced the method they prefer for playing/learning the game is the ONE RIGHT WAY. So they say in response to complaints such as mine "Yes, GPL is a difficult simulation, and we make no apologies for that." As I mentioned above, I'm glad, very glad, that GPL has such superb "physics" and I agree any suggestion to alter that is stupid. But altering the overall speed of AI cars is a different thing altogether, and in no way compromises those "laws of physics". It's just as if they are having a bad day and decide to drive 10% slower ;). Anyway, that's how I feel. I wish Papyrus would put Kari on their payroll and release a patch incorporating all his tweaks and more into the menu system. That would help many players get more enjoyment from their time with GPL (many of us may never get time to practice enough to ever have have a real race - unless we use Kari's program). Including this into the menu would also be a very good decision commercially, because more players getting more enjoyment from GPL can only improve sales. Cheers Alan.

>Now you may consider that I would improve more quickly if I forgot >about racing for a while, and just got up to speed via training, as >recommended in the manual. And you're probably right. But, so what? Exactly. Then you'd have to find something ELSE to *** about, and that would be a lot of trouble. Exactly. You'd probably improve even faster if you practiced instead of raced. But that's your choice. Okay, so you've identified what you call a problem, you've found a FREE solution that someone was generous enough to make available. What is the problem here? Just curious. Pinebox

>>Now you may consider that I would improve more quickly if I forgot >>about racing for a while, and just got up to speed via training, as >>recommended in the manual. And you're probably right. But, so what? >Exactly. Then you'd have to find something ELSE to *** about, and that would >be a lot of trouble. Why do you me object to me suggesting an improvement? The problem is the amount of time wasted working out how to make the changes I want - and the fact it takes an unpaid programmer to make my enjoyment of the game complete. I think it would be a better product, that more people could get enjoyment from, with these changes included in the original game. That's all.

>I think it would be a better product, that more people could get >enjoyment from, with these changes included in the original game. >That's all. Oh, I see. Then, may I suggest you send a message with a header like "An AI suggestion (or request, or demand, even) for Papyrus," instead of "Do they think we're stupid." You don't appear to have much skill in gaining a sympathetic ear, either from devotees of GPL in this newsgroup or the people at Papyrus who might be in a position to do something about it. Pinebox

Found! 1 sympathetic ear. Good post mate, Hey programmers and producers, GIVE US OPTIONS!!

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >I think it would be a better product, that more people could get > >enjoyment from, with these changes included in the original game. > >That's all. > Oh, I see. Then, may I suggest you send a message with a header like "An AI > suggestion (or request, or demand, even) for Papyrus," instead of "Do they > think we're stupid." You don't appear to have much skill in gaining a > sympathetic ear, either from devotees of GPL in this newsgroup or the people at > Papyrus who might be in a position to do something about it. > Pinebox

Yes, but he did have a very good point. Sierra did it for N2 and ICR2 and could have very easily done it for GPL. Poor foresight on their part. Paul

I agree GPL is very slim on settings and options. Hopefully they'll splurge on Nascar. rob.

While I agree that you should be able to tailor the level of the AI, I would point out that options are a two headed monster. Program designers are correctly taught that sparse, simple interfaces are better because most users (who are generally not the people found on this ng) prefer them. People complain like hell when programs are complex to use or have too many options. GPL has a very simple and aesthically pleasing user interface which does not allow for the kind of complex manipulation that subscribers to this ng demand. But within days of the release of a decent sim we can get scores of utilities developed by competant philathropists that allow us to radically alter the look and feel of the sim. The only change I'd make in response to your mail is an option to choose which drivers you race against and perhaps an add-on program to load up sounds, graphics and manipulate ini file settings. MGP has such a program. However, Papyrus did give us ini files that are easy to edit - that's a lot better than some others sims. Paul

[snip] >The problem is the amount of time wasted working out how to make the >changes I want - and the fact it takes an unpaid programmer to make my >enjoyment of the game complete. [snip] Thought it might be worth pointing out that the changes are a simple modification of a few values in an .ini file. You hardly need to be a programmer to read the comments and change the appropriate lines. What the programmer has done is give the computer illiterate spawn of Gates and his Windows monopoly a nice GUI way of setting the AI values. It's appreciated of course - but the easier you make something the less control you have over it. An example - I spend a bit of time playing Quake and Quake2 online and the text file based configuration system is widely accepted as the most flexible and powerful way to make the game behave the way you want it to. The control which this gives players is ideal as you can customise the game to run well on your hardware as well as look good and play the way you want it to. Maybe you should buy a Macintosh as it will help you avoid learning a little bit about how your software works. Jet

regarding ... If any nitwit thinks that a novice could keep up with the top drivers of the 67 era, they must have rocks in their head. Of course I dumbed down the AI of the other drivers ;) And, I don't feel bad about it one bit. It has given me some great races. If I feel good about coming in second with slower AI, and have more fun than I would against the full strength AI ... Who should care? If I never get a chance to pass another driver, how in the hell am I going to practice my passing skills? I think one 'should' lower the AI's abilities to be more in-line with who's racing. As you get better, pump them up. For me, this keeps the fun-factor high, and I can get accustomed to racing with other cars around me. I do think that Papy could have made this easier to do, but it's not really that hard.

But still, a way to override the AI adjusting to your speed and being able to set their speed to whatever you like in the GUI should have been implemented. I sense a little burnout here on Papy's part after 3 years of hard work. It would have prevented a lot of frustration and is even more annoying for casual users/newbies because of the main disappointment in GPL IMO - the ommision of being able to race at GP2 and GP3 level. Though it doesn't effect me directly, it was a blow to the sport of sim racing and will probably result in a lack of up and coming simmers. This is something that the likes of Papyrus should feel responsible for. Even for their own financial future if nothing else.

Quoted text (16 lines)

> While I agree that you should be able to tailor the level of the AI, I > would point out that options are a two headed monster. Program designers > are correctly taught that sparse, simple interfaces are better because > most users (who are generally not the people found on this ng) prefer > them. People complain like hell when programs are complex to use or have > too many options. GPL has a very simple and aesthically pleasing user > interface which does not allow for the kind of complex manipulation that > subscribers to this ng demand. But within days of the release of a decent > sim we can get scores of utilities developed by competant philathropists > that allow us to radically alter the look and feel of the sim. The only > change I'd make in response to your mail is an option to choose which > drivers you race against and perhaps an add-on program to load up sounds, > graphics and manipulate ini file settings. MGP has such a program. > However, Papyrus did give us ini files that are easy to edit - that's a > lot better than some others sims. > Paul

-- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm