ISDN PART II - FULL MONTY MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU!!!

Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance Please just reply!! Me too!!! Don Wilshe PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

@cts.com Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Just to clarify things, Don, but just because you are connecting faster, doesn't mean you get better latency. This is a misconception of most people. Your better ping times are probably due to your ISDN line being cleaner, because it's digital as opposed to analog. Also, you are short changing yourself by not upgrading your internet service to ISDN. Chances are it's only $10/mo more than regular, and you will lower your latency even further by eliminating the analog modem at your end, and replacing it with an ISDN modem.

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>Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! >ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! >I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to >remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. >You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will >see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were >TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least >the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much >cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K >Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to >the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less >latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may >never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of >you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! >Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance >Please just reply!! Me too!!! >Don Wilshe >PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

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> Just to clarify things, Don, but just because you are connecting faster, > doesn't mean you get better latency. This is a misconception of most people. > Your better ping times are probably due to your ISDN line being cleaner, > because it's digital as opposed to analog. > Also, you are short changing yourself by not upgrading your internet service > to ISDN. Chances are it's only $10/mo more than regular, and you will lower > your latency even further by eliminating the analog modem at your end, and > replacing it with an ISDN modem.

1). I have run numerous studies and the faster i run the lower the latency!! I think the reason that speed effects latency is you can simple transfer a 64 byte packet faster... All i know is I measure my ping time if that different and i ran test from 9600 to 115K and the faster the lower the pings... Maybe we can test this together... 2). Yes i know its only $10.00, but the services around here dont give you unlimted connect. They cap it a 100 hours than $1.00 an hour after that.. At the rate I use internet. I would blow that in about a week.. But good advice to most for sure dw Thanks good suggestions

Best thing to do in my opinion is to go for an internal ISDN card in your pc. Bypass the serial port alltogether. Saves even more latency and cpu as well. I have one for a couple of years now (Elsa) and am very satisfied with it. I also have an internal analog modem hooked up to the ISDN line via the a/b adapter. Bart (Netherlands) >Just to clarify things, Don, but just because you are connecting faster, >doesn't mean you get better latency. This is a misconception of most people. >Your better ping times are probably due to your ISDN line being cleaner, >because it's digital as opposed to analog. >Also, you are short changing yourself by not upgrading your internet service

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>to ISDN. Chances are it's only $10/mo more than regular, and you will lower >your latency even further by eliminating the analog modem at your end, and >replacing it with an ISDN modem. >>Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! >>ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! >>I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to >>remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. >>You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will >>see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were >>TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least >>the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much >>cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K >>Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to >>the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less >>latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may >>never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of >>you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! >>Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance >>Please just reply!! Me too!!! >>Don Wilshe >>PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

And to clarify a bit further for those reading this thread, you can't simply plug a regular modem into an ISDN line. Apples and oranges. If you read Don's first post you'll see that he does indeed have an ISDN Terminal Adapter ('modem') that he's running his analog modem into. The ISDN TA is performing the translation between the digital (ISDN) line and the analog (regular) modem. Rgds, Mark R. =====================================

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>Just to clarify things, Don, but just because you are connecting faster, >doesn't mean you get better latency. This is a misconception of most people. >Your better ping times are probably due to your ISDN line being cleaner, >because it's digital as opposed to analog. >Also, you are short changing yourself by not upgrading your internet service >to ISDN. Chances are it's only $10/mo more than regular, and you will lower >your latency even further by eliminating the analog modem at your end, and >replacing it with an ISDN modem. >>Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! >>ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! >>I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to >>remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. >>You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will >>see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were >>TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least >>the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much >>cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K >>Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to >>the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less >>latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may >>never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of >>you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! >>Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance >>Please just reply!! Me too!!! >>Don Wilshe >>PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

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> And to clarify a bit further for those reading this thread, you > can't simply plug a regular modem into an ISDN line. Apples and > oranges. If you read Don's first post you'll see that he does > indeed have an ISDN Terminal Adapter ('modem') that he's running > his analog modem into. The ISDN TA is performing the translation > between the digital (ISDN) line and the analog (regular) modem. > Rgds, > Mark R.

Mark: Yes that is an excellent point.. The ISDN modem has two analog ports in the back of the modem and yes you do need to use it dw

> Why would you install an ISDN line, buy a TA, and then run an analog > modem into it? Simple John. In the ole USA we have a charge for unlimited ISDN. If I can run though a TA and achieve the same performance and low latency without paying the extra monthly fee's why do it.. In other words !!! I have an ISP called Mindspring and I connect about 16 hours a day x 30 or about 480 hours a month. Now if I get ISDN, I have 100 hours free and I pay $1.00 an hour for the other 380 hours. That give me an ISP cost of about $380.00 + $26.95. Or over $400.00 monthly. Now if you have a 64K ISDN circuit and I can achieve 50K with ISDN through the TA for $19.95 Unlimited. It seems that I get my cake and eat it also. I get low latency with the digital connection and hardly any better service. As you know we can Nascar race just fine at 9600 baud. So even if I could use the extra 64K bandwidth its of no benefit. Why Good Sense and about $400.00 a month or $5000 a year... Don Wilshe PS. Got it Scoobie!!

>And to clarify a bit further for those reading this thread, you >can't simply plug a regular modem into an ISDN line. Apples and >oranges. If you read Don's first post you'll see that he does >indeed have an ISDN Terminal Adapter ('modem') that he's running >his analog modem into. The ISDN TA is performing the translation >between the digital (ISDN) line and the analog (regular) modem. Why would you install an ISDN line, buy a TA, and then run an analog modem into it? Cheers! Scoobied in Scotland...

Yep, that makes sense Don, thanks. Wahey, for once we have something the U.S, doesn't :-) My ISDN line costs exactly the same as my standard. Of course my standard costs more than your ISDN line, but....! :-) BTW though, surely your latency will still be quite a bit higher than pure ISDN due to DAC-ADC requirements? "Scoobied" seems to be a Scottish expression, maybe from***ney rhyming slang. "I haven't got a scoobie" means you don't know something, coming from "Scooby Doo = Clue" in rhyming slang. Cheers! John

Don, This is very interesting, because I get 50,666 Kbs with a USR Flash on a normal line in the UK... The real cost in upgrading to ISDN comes from the ISP side, but that seems to be changing fast Ben

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>Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! >ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! >I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to >remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. >You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will >see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were >TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least >the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much >cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K >Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to >the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less >latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may >never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of >you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! >Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance >Please just reply!! Me too!!! >Don Wilshe >PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

I don't know a hell of a lot about ISDN etc or even how a modem works to be honest. I was just thinking that our modems must struggle to be trying to simutaneously send and recieve data and that the sent data would be stalling incoming data and v.v. I hear that ISDN (64 or 128k) needs 2 lines - one for incoming and another for outgoing. Would this situation alone enable smoother gameplay over the net apart from the fact that it's simply quicker?

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> Don, > This is very interesting, because I get 50,666 Kbs with a USR Flash on a > normal line in the UK... > The real cost in upgrading to ISDN comes from the ISP side, but that seems > to be changing fast > Ben > >Subject: THE FULL MONTY!!! Maybe not be necessary!!!! > >ISDN Clarification from Mr. Confusion!! > >I want to clarify a point i made about ISDN in PART I. You have to > >remember that there are 2 issues here. ISDN LINE and ISDN MODEM. > >You can get an ISDN LINE and run your old 56K modem and you will > >see significant improvement in throughput and lower latency. If I were > >TEN i would recommend to all the NROS drivers that they get at least > >the ISDN LINE. You get the reduction in latency because of a much much > >cleaner digital line. I went from 26,400K to 49,333K with my old 56K > >Modem!! My latencies went down by at least 70ms. This is attributed to > >the fact that I was able to run faster. Faster speeds do give you less > >latencies. So just the ISDN LINE can be a najor improvement and I may > >never go to the ISDN ISP MODEM or the FULL MONTY! Several of > >you might not either as many area's only offer 64K ISDN!!! > >Now if you want to see the Wilshe & Ramsden Full Monty Line Dance > >Please just reply!! Me too!!! > >Don Wilshe > >PS. Ok Mike Lets show the boys what we have!!! hehe

-- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Switching to this type of ISDN gives you use of 3 channels/2 lines, 1 for data/1 for voice (64Kb) or 2 for data (128Kb), the third channel is for signalling, etc (16Kb). As far as I know ISDN does not use one line for incoming and the other for outgoing, as it detects that when the second line is available and gives you that added bandwidth. The reason ISDN will be faster is because a) it is digital b) point to point networking c) the quality of line can carry more data Don originally said something about running a 56Kb modem over ISDN lines (I didn't even know you could do this) would make things faster... This is likely to be due to b) point to point networking... he would be getting a better connection to his ISP (dedicated) and then straight out to the bandwidth competing net and c) his shiney new line can handle more data. Kane >I don't know a hell of a lot about ISDN etc or even how a modem works to be honest. I >was just thinking that our modems must struggle to be trying to simutaneously send and

I had ISDN in my last house, but now that I have moved i cannot get it anymore. In a nutshell ISDN=Digital connection all the way!! Lower ping times since the big spot for latency with my ISP seemed to be the ADC at the modem pool. I have had so much better luck on my ISDN line than on my current 56k modem (same ISP) I am eagerly awaiting a cable modem (no name jokes please!) but that is 6 months away in my town. Tim

John, this was in followup to somebody that was doing the evil deed (plugging an analog modem into a TA) but wasn't too clear about the details in his post. Rgds, Mark ========================================

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>>And to clarify a bit further for those reading this thread, you >>can't simply plug a regular modem into an ISDN line. Apples and >>oranges. If you read Don's first post you'll see that he does >>indeed have an ISDN Terminal Adapter ('modem') that he's running >>his analog modem into. The ISDN TA is performing the translation >>between the digital (ISDN) line and the analog (regular) modem. >Why would you install an ISDN line, buy a TA, and then run an analog >modem into it? >Cheers! >Scoobied in Scotland...

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:11 +1100, "kane" >snip< >Don originally said something about running a 56Kb modem over ISDN lines (I >didn't even know you could do this) >snip< You can't. He had an ISDN Terminal Adapter that he was plugging his modem into... in effect, he had a total ISDN setup (line plus PC hardware) except for the ISP account. Rgds, Mark R.

Must have misread... cheers Mark. >On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:11 +1100, "kane" >>snip< >>Don originally said something about running a 56Kb modem over ISDN lines (I

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>>didn't even know you could do this) >>snip< >You can't. He had an ISDN Terminal Adapter that he was plugging >his modem into... in effect, he had a total ISDN setup (line plus >PC hardware) except for the ISP account. >Rgds, >Mark R.