CM Rally Realism?

OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have even the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or do all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? I would appreciate hearing any other comments regarding the title's realism as well. Thanks for the feedback, Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 ****************************************************************************

I agree. Whilst I await the solution for the "locking" problem in GPL, I was "driven" (ha, ha, oh forget it) to buying CM Rally. PC Format said it was the F1GP2 of rally sims. Balls. Codemasters use the same engine to re-create the rally cars as TOCA. They all feel the same and you never get any real feel of grip. It's like driving on wet snow all the time. Fortunately, there's light on the horizon and TOCA 2 is due soon. Apparently, Codemasters have gone the same way as Papyrus and are using physics models based on different areas of the car to give a more realistic drive. All cars will handle differently like GPL. If this pulls off then we might see a better rally sim in the future. There were other points that dissapointed me as well. The damage model seems to be way out. No car could withstand a 100 mph head on crash with a tree. Why no time penalty for turning the car over ( a few minutes while spectators gather to upright the car). No wind screen effects i.e. mud and broken glass. No night stages until you've passed the ridiculously hard expert training. Horrible scenery pop ups (so uneccessary with todays PCs). No other cars on the track unless in multiplayer. (In real life they are sent out in intervals and often come up behind a slower car if it has problems). Oh well, yet another arcade driver game. Not really a sim. Simon Page. On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:13:48 -0500, "Marc Collins"

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>OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have even >the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the >obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or do >all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? >I would appreciate hearing any other comments regarding the title's realism >as well. >Thanks for the feedback, >Marc. >-- >**************************************************************************** >Marc Collins >"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" > General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 >****************************************************************************

Please remove the usual from my address to reply! Simon Page Dereham Computer Services D2 Computer Services http://people.netcom.co.uk/spage

> OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have even > the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the > obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or do > all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? You can tell the difference. I would call it very good arcade realism. -- Anssi Lehtinen

So the rear-wheel drive car (the bonus old Escort) really hangs out the rear-end in comparison to the 4 wheel drive and front wheel drive models? The front wheel drive cars are prone to more understeer in extreme cornering than the 4-wheel drive? Marc. >> OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have even

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>> the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the >> obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or do >> all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? >You can tell the difference. I would call it very good arcade realism. >-- >Anssi Lehtinen

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>> Codemasters use the same engine to re-create the rally cars as TOCA. >> They all feel the same and you never get any real feel of grip. It's >> like driving on wet snow all the time. >> <snip> > Hi Simon, how can this be? Each surface has its own grip character and even >sound effect as you drive over it. Sweden is a worlds different than Greece >is worlds different from Australia, etc. The nature of high power rally cars >is to practically be 'on tippy toes' much of the time re: adhesion anyway. ><snip>night stages until you've passed the ridiculously hard expert >> training. > No offence, but if you find the 'training mode' ridiculously hard, then >perhaps that is coloring your perceptions? I happen to be someone who thinks >the best opinions come from those who *very* proficient at a sim, and not >those who have just skimmed the surface (See: the Avault GPL review) Mark >Rael

If you disagree with my opinions, then fair enough but try and look as to why "sim" enthusiasts such as myself find CM to be "a little thin". Sure, it is a good arcade type game, ranging from the easy to darn right difficult... very good... to cater for a wide audience. The point I'm making is that, no matter what surface you drive on, the car doesn't feel like a car. "Oh, but you've never driven a rally car", I hear you say! Wrong, I have but that's beside the point too. It just feels arcady! Take GPL for instance. When I first started the demo, I was immediately gob smacked as to how it felt. The car felt as if it had some adhesion to the road (not for long, I hasten to add as I was soon on the grass) but the difference was there. It has been said that Codemasters are adopting this sort of physics into TOCA2 and I watch with great interest. It is the realism that comes from this that keeps me coming back time and again to GPL. Hundreds of laps round Monza and still only starting tenth... that doesn't happen with CM. This shows with CM's approach to the game in general. You are penalised for not taking all the training almost as an incentive to carry on playing the game. WHY? Surely, if the game is good enough (and we are not talking about graphics here), then the incentive to practice and become better comes automatically from driving the car, not to get extra tracks or night driving. So, don't accuse me of only skimming the surface. I have spent a fair time "driving" it but the game can go back to the Playstation Joypad which it is designed for. An excellent game it is, a serious simulation it is not (of course, IMHO). Bye the way, there is no such thing as "best" opinions. There are what they are... opinions, and we are all entitled to them :-) Please remove the usual from my address to reply! Simon Page Dereham Computer Services D2 Computer Services http://people.netcom.co.uk/spage

If you know the trick of driving a rally car, those problems can be cure >So the rear-wheel drive car (the bonus old Escort) really hangs out the >rear-end in comparison to the 4 wheel drive and front wheel drive models? >The front wheel drive cars are prone to more understeer in extreme cornering

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>than the 4-wheel drive? >Marc. >>> OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have >even >>> the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the >>> obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or

do >>> all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? >>You can tell the difference. I would call it very good arcade realism. >>-- >>Anssi Lehtinen

snip > The point I'm making is that, no matter what surface you drive on, the > car doesn't feel like a car. "Oh, but you've never driven a rally > car", I hear you say! Wrong, I have but that's beside the point too. > It just feels arcady! There's the good and evil discussion again! If CMR is arcady, what the hell would you call POD or NFSIII? No, CMR doesn't have the GPL physics engine, but it really behaves very realisticly. Just one example is the way the car has weight. If you jump over a crest, the car doesn't fly 30 feet, but hops and smashes down very quickly. No other sim did this that believable before. l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Of course they can be compensated for (cured)--the question is whether they are modelled in the game in the first place. I don't think they are..... Marc.

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>If you know the trick of driving a rally car, those problems can be cure >>So the rear-wheel drive car (the bonus old Escort) really hangs out the >>rear-end in comparison to the 4 wheel drive and front wheel drive models? >>The front wheel drive cars are prone to more understeer in extreme >cornering >>than the 4-wheel drive? >>Marc. >>>> OK all of you Colin McRae Rally fans, does this title (for the PC) have >>even >>>> the most basic aspect of realism programmed into it? Can you tell the >>>> obvious difference between front, rear and four-wheel drive cars....or >do >>>> all of the cars handle just about the same as the TOCA cars? >>>You can tell the difference. I would call it very good arcade realism. >>>-- >>>Anssi Lehtinen

I like the realistic "weight" the cars seem to have, too. What is your opinion on my original question (whether you can tell the difference between front, 4 and rear-wheel drive vehicles)? Marc.

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>it really behaves very realisticly. Just one example is the way the car >has >weight. If you jump over a crest, the car doesn't fly 30 feet, but hops >and >smashes down very quickly. No other sim did this that believable before. >l8er >ronny

> I like the realistic "weight" the cars seem to have, too. What is your > opinion on my original question (whether you can tell the difference between > front, 4 and rear-wheel drive vehicles)? Oh, you got me there! If I spent 5 hours with CMR, it's a lot (GPL is calling, no, it's screaming all the time ;^). So in that short time I just didn't look for any differences. I just enjoyed the surprisingly realistic feel of driving these rally cars. If you accept 2nd hand info, in a game mag review I read they mentioned who sensitive you have to be with the Audi compared with the other cars. So there definitly is a difference in the handling of the cars. l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

It is really easy to feel the difference between front, 4 and rear wheel drive cars in CMR. The front drive cars tend to plough on with severe understeer unless you balance them with throttle inputs, whereas the rear wheel drive cars, especially the 2 litre Escort is very tail happy if you plant the foot in a bend it will just spin the rear end around where as the effect in the 4 wheel drive cars is more of a big loop and it is possible to drive the car out of bends much harder and with more neutral handling characteristics. The only arcadey things about CMR is having to qualify for extra stages by winning the previous one and I suppose the setups could be more detailed. >I like the realistic "weight" the cars seem to have, too. What is your >opinion on my original question (whether you can tell the difference between

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>front, 4 and rear-wheel drive vehicles)? >Marc. >>it really behaves very realisticly. Just one example is the way the car >>has >>weight. If you jump over a crest, the car doesn't fly 30 feet, but hops >>and >>smashes down very quickly. No other sim did this that believable before. >>l8er >>ronny