GPL is not a real sim

Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out a bit. GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing alot of things. Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you ask? Glad you asked. :) In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with your plane docked a ways from the runway. In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and have to refire it up.) In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In flight sims you have to communicate with the tower. In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you have to taxi to the runway. My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it is. Perhaps I'm alone on this one but I feel the game would be much more interesting if one had to do ALL the details of racing the car like getting from the paddock to pit lane or having to actually flip some switches then fire the car up or have to find you way around the paddock and drive on to pit lane. By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL could have really put some polish on an already great game. One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional in the actual game. Any thoughts on these ideas?

Your comparing too different things Kyle Millikin WinstonCup $4.99 RedLine MotorSports

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>Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out >a bit. >and drive on to pit lane. >By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL >could have really put some polish on an already great game. >One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew >member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when >one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a >weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, >remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the >jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel >container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. >Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional >in the actual game. >Any thoughts on these ideas?

I'm not hell bent for ***, but...

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>Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out >a bit. >GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing >alot of things. >Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 >for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you >ask? Glad you asked. :) >In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with >your plane docked a ways from the runway.

Is this really necessary? Isn't starting from the pits good enough? No flaps and stuff in racing. All you would end up doing is hit a key to start the engine. Not a big loss in my book. In GPL, there is sounds from the announcer. Can you hear it? No...loud car and no communications. That's why they used pit boards back then. Besides, how can you compare the eras? '67 and '98? Back in GPL times, they didn't pit. They had enough gas for an entire race, and back then the tires would make it through more than one race. Why waste the time rolling the car from the paddock to the pit? I like GPL for racing, not the little stuff in between...it's a race car, not a taxi. Once again, they didn't make pit stops back then. I think you are thinking of Nascar. Besides, the gamer is only one person. How long would it take to do a pitstop? 2-3 minutes...even with switching from one crew member to another. Some points you have brought up aren't in your flying games...who's refueling your plane? Pulling the chocks out from under the tires? Passing out peanuts and sodas? My thoughts..no flames, just thoughts...

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>Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out >a bit. >GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing >alot of things. >Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 >for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you >ask? Glad you asked. :)

<many examples clipped> Yeah, I'll play. :) OK, granted, having those things would be neat and would add to the atmosphere of the game. BUT, would they add anything to the driving experience? Papyrus's philosophy has always been to extract the maximum realism (within current CPU limitations) from the on track experience. No compromises. That is why they are regarded as the leaders in the racing sims field. Their sims are a bit sparse in some ways, but "it's in there" once you put it on the track. You could add these bells and whistles, but at a cost. It would take development time. Would these features sell more copies or justify raising the price to pay for the development time? Do you ship late or cut corners on the game engine to add these features? I recently got MS C:PR, and it follows the philosophy of trying to offer you everything (nice driving school, for instance). But, in trying to do everything, corners were cut on essential items. Does having the driving school videos make up for having no tire temperatures or poor AI? Forget the garnish, give me my meat and potatos, and I'll be happy. Frankly, some of these examples sound a bit like the Avault reviewer who complained that he couldn't "realistically" run down the spectators. :) NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Interesting...but the only part I "liked" <g> was starting the engine. In the C64 days, there was a brilliant Formula 3 sim by Mr. Crammond called "Revs". You had to start the engine, and keep the clutch in. It had a lumpy idle, and was a *** to restart when you spun : D heh, one could add having to heat the plugs with a lighter, crank the engine to remove fumes, bad cold coffee, lousy weather, mean hot-dog salespersons.... But that's why simming is so nice, you don't have to go thru all that! Matt_K, Norway

I have a few flight sims that start me out up in the air mid-flight with the engine(s) already on. Does this mean they are bad sims? buzard

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> Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out > a bit. > GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing > alot of things. > Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 > for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you > ask? Glad you asked. :) > In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with > your plane docked a ways from the runway. > In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to > fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if > one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and > have to refire it up.) > In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In > flight sims you have to communicate with the tower. > In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you > have to taxi to the runway. > My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it > is. Perhaps I'm alone on this one but I feel the game would be much > more interesting if one had to do ALL the details of racing the car like > getting from the paddock to pit lane or having to actually flip some > switches then fire the car up or have to find you way around the paddock > and drive on to pit lane. > By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL > could have really put some polish on an already great game. > One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew > member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when > one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a > weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, > remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the > jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel > container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. > Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional > in the actual game. > Any thoughts on these ideas?

You show me a version of Flight Simulator that, by default, starts you anywhere but directly on the runway and I'll acknowledge that statement. What "flaps and stuff" would you adjust on the car while you are in it? You have a gas pedal, a brake pedal, a clutch, a stickshift, and a steering wheel. That's it. All of that is modeled. As for starting the engine, who cares? So you push a button to start the engine or it is already started. There really isn't much difference. In Flight Simulator you do not -have- to talk to the tower. Control communications in Flight Simulator is totally superfluous. How would you expect to talk to the announcer/pit crew in a simulation of 1967 racing? There were no in car radios back then and the engine was so loud you couldn't hear the PA system from the***pit. That's why they had pit boards. That's why pit boards are modeled in GPL. No you don't. You can land and exit the game without ever having to taxi off of the active runway in Flight Simulator. Besides, they -didn't- pit in 1960s era Grand Prix racing. They carried enough fuel for the entire race and the tires were of a harder compound and lasted for numerous races. But, I guess you've never been black-flagged in GPL. That will happen, and when it does you -must- make your way to your pit and wait until the officials let you back on to the track. Your point is "GPL should've been a flight simulator". Your comparisons are nonsensical, uninformed, and without merit. GPL simulates the forces, physical effects, and set up options of a 1960s era F1 car. It is a simulation of the car. Just because the machinery of that era was without bells and whistles doesn't mean that GPL isn't a sim because it doesn't simulate unnecessary stuff. What things? "Flaps and stuff"? What would that add to the simulation? Communications would be farsical. Pitting wouldn't be keeping with the era of racing that is modeled. Your "touches" are nothing more than fluff that is improper to the era of the simulation. Yeah, I get the idea that your definition of a simulation is pretty flawed. If one person had to do the job of 15 people, then it isn't an accurate simulation. Pit stops would take longer than they did in reality and the pit times would be abnormally skewed. The second you mentioned "Quake" what little support your argument had was pulled out from underneath it. Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional But ridiculous key press options like "engine starting" should be made mandatory? I'm sorry, but "Pit Crew Legends" is a ridiculous option that would've added an extraordinary amount of time to the development cycle of the product and would've had an impact on the average buyer of exactly NOTHING! It has no attraction to someone wanting to play a -driving- simulation and would've increased the price of the product for no apparent reason. Yes, they are the thoughts of the ignorant.

Take it Back and buy Need For Speed, or Interstate '76, or a freekin' flight simulator. It's for simulating RACING, not signing autographs, driving through the paddock, loading it on the trailer, picking up chicks... I'm ashamed that this guy even has the same game as me!

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>>Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out >>a bit. >>GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing >>alot of things. >>Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 >>for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you >>ask? Glad you asked. :) >>In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with >>your plane docked a ways from the runway. >>In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to >>fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if >>one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and >>have to refire it up.) >>In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In >>flight sims you have to communicate with the tower. >>In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you >>have to taxi to the runway. >>My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it >>is. Perhaps I'm alone on this one but I feel the game would be much >>more interesting if one had to do ALL the details of racing the car like >>getting from the paddock to pit lane or having to actually flip some >>switches then fire the car up or have to find you way around the paddock >>and drive on to pit lane. >>By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL >>could have really put some polish on an already great game. >>One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew >>member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when >>one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a >>weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, >>remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the >>jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel >>container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. >>Any thoughts on these ideas?

My my, arent we a tad cranky today. :)

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> > In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with > > your plane docked a ways from the runway. > You show me a version of Flight Simulator that, by default, starts you > anywhere but directly on the runway and I'll acknowledge that statement. > > In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to > > fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if > > one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and > > have to refire it up.) > What "flaps and stuff" would you adjust on the car while you are in it? > You have a gas pedal, a brake pedal, a clutch, a stickshift, and a > steering wheel. That's it. All of that is modeled. As for starting the > engine, who cares? So you push a button to start the engine or it is > already started. There really isn't much difference. > > In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In > > flight sims you have to communicate with the tower. > In Flight Simulator you do not -have- to talk to the tower. Control > communications in Flight Simulator is totally superfluous. How would you > expect to talk to the announcer/pit crew in a simulation of 1967 racing? > There were no in car radios back then and the engine was so loud you > couldn't hear the PA system from the***pit. That's why they had pit > boards. That's why pit boards are modeled in GPL. > > In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you > > have to taxi to the runway. > No you don't. You can land and exit the game without ever having to taxi > off of the active runway in Flight Simulator. Besides, they -didn't- pit > in 1960s era Grand Prix racing. They carried enough fuel for the entire > race and the tires were of a harder compound and lasted for numerous > races. But, I guess you've never been black-flagged in GPL. That will > happen, and when it does you -must- make your way to your pit and wait > until the officials let you back on to the track. > > My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it > > is. > Your point is "GPL should've been a flight simulator". Your comparisons > are nonsensical, uninformed, and without merit. GPL simulates the forces, > physical effects, and set up options of a 1960s era F1 car. It is a > simulation of the car. Just because the machinery of that era was without > bells and whistles doesn't mean that GPL isn't a sim because it doesn't > simulate unnecessary stuff. > > By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things > What things? "Flaps and stuff"? What would that add to the simulation? > Communications would be farsical. Pitting wouldn't be keeping with the > era of racing that is modeled. Your "touches" are nothing more than fluff > that is improper to the era of the simulation. > > One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew > > member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when > > one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a > > weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, > > remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the > > jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel > > container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. > Yeah, I get the idea that your definition of a simulation is pretty > flawed. If one person had to do the job of 15 people, then it isn't an > accurate simulation. Pit stops would take longer than they did in reality > and the pit times would be abnormally skewed. The second you mentioned > "Quake" what little support your argument had was pulled out from > underneath it. > Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional > > in the actual game. > But ridiculous key press options like "engine starting" should be made > mandatory? I'm sorry, but "Pit Crew Legends" is a ridiculous option that > would've added an extraordinary amount of time to the development cycle > of the product and would've had an impact on the average buyer of exactly > NOTHING! It has no attraction to someone wanting to play a -driving- > simulation and would've increased the price of the product for no > apparent reason. > > Any thoughts on these ideas? > Yes, they are the thoughts of the ignorant.

One of the vehicles in the Carmageddon 2 demo resembles a Lotus 7. Close enough? :-) Martin Nigel Mansell RIP!

It would be cool to hear the Ferrari start up though. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

>Perhaps I'm alone on this one Looks like you are :-) Well, that's the one part of your message (repeated in two subject lines) that I agree with.

You're still here? I better check my kill-file settings. No, I am not a "tad cranky". I just have this aversion to ignorance. Your message had it in spades.

% > % > Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out % > a bit. % > % > GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing % > alot of things. % > % > Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 % > for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you % > ask? Glad you asked. :) % > % Sorry, this is all I need to read. Your in the wrong NG. Who gives a stuff about flight % sims! How well is the suspension, tyre heating/distortion of the landing gear in flight % sims compared to GPL? Bye bye! I know it's not nice, but ROTFL!!!! Great repartee! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Destroy wrote <snipped many stuff not necessary> Hey you forgot many things !! Indeed GPL is NOT a simulation. It's missing soo many things you find in real life. I have the proof ;) You can't get out of the car. You can't walk back to the pits after you crashed. You can't take your normal car and go back to the hotel after the race. You can't also walk the dog. You can't help the doctor for the birth of your child You can't have fun to shoot a BFG-4000 at people in the grandstands after you retired But you can have a life, heh ? No spectators were killed during the making of this post - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard! - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

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> Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out > a bit. > GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing > alot of things. > Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 > for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you > ask? Glad you asked. :)

Sorry, this is all I need to read. Your in the wrong NG. Who gives a stuff about flight sims! How well is the suspension, tyre heating/distortion of the landing gear in flight sims compared to GPL? Bye bye! -- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and [link lost in import: /~godsoe/bolt/home.htm]

He's right. GPL isn't mind-numbingly boring the way the flight sims he mentioned are. Thank god!

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>Before you go all hell bent for *** and flame my tooshy, read me out >a bit. >GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing >alot of things. >Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2 >for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you >ask? Glad you asked. :) >In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with >your plane docked a ways from the runway. >In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to >fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if >one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and >have to refire it up.) >In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In >flight sims you have to communicate with the tower. >In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you >have to taxi to the runway. >My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it >is. Perhaps I'm alone on this one but I feel the game would be much >more interesting if one had to do ALL the details of racing the car like >getting from the paddock to pit lane or having to actually flip some >switches then fire the car up or have to find you way around the paddock >and drive on to pit lane. >By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL >could have really put some polish on an already great game. >One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew >member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view' when >one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a >weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up, >remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the >jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel >container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea. >Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional >in the actual game. >Any thoughts on these ideas?

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> But ridiculous key press options like "engine starting" should be made > mandatory? I'm sorry, but "Pit Crew Legends" is a ridiculous option that > would've added an extraordinary amount of time to the development cycle > of the product and would've had an impact on the average buyer of exactly > NOTHING! It has no attraction to someone wanting to play a -driving- > simulation and would've increased the price of the product for no > apparent reason.

YES!!! A Pit Crew Simulator would RULE!!! Whooo!!! Er... back to Fallout 2 I guess... Maybe I'll get back to GPL when I'm done with Fallout 2 and Half-Life :-) Brian Short

>Any thoughts on these ideas? Just one: stick to flight sims. Randy Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Of course not. How can a "simulation" be "real".

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> >Any thoughts on these ideas? > Just one: stick to flight sims. > Randy > Randy Magruder > http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Hmm, I haven`t seen this post before, so I`ll just dive on in... Flight Unlimited, Flight Unlimited 2, EF2000, B-17 Flying Fortress.... I think that is a little ridiculous, considering the current level of cpu power that is needed for gpl. With complicated stuff like that, it would grind to a halt, and it would more than likely suffer from 'repetitive' speech like all other games with speech like that. I think he meant the pa`s to the spectators. Thats it.