ForceFeedback in sims

Hi! Most guys including me reading this ng are/were very suspicious about the value of FF in racing sims. Well, to say it right away, I'm no longer... Using the MS FF wheel I was quite disappointed by MGPR which implements some nice effects, but for example ignores hitting the curbes and has only some more or less realistic effects when crossing bumps in the track. Then I tried the ViperRacing demo. The FF implementation in this sim is simply amazing. Beyond the usual stuff like locked brakes, on grass or dirt, you can even feel the wheight transfer. Accelerate hard and the front wheels turn easy, hit the brakes without locking up, they turn harder. During little jumps they turn easy as well. I'm having a hard time describing it accurately, but this sim goes far beyond the silly twitch the wheel left, then right and rattle it a bit more like in most arcade racers. It really gives the impression of driving a race car at the limit and gives usefull feedback. Oh, this rumour about an FF patch for GPL just made my day... l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Yup. Viper Racing is easily the best FF racing game available. I is many steps above any other racing sim FF wise.

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> Hi! > Most guys including me reading this ng are/were very suspicious about > the > value of FF in racing sims. Well, to say it right away, I'm no longer... > Using the MS FF wheel I was quite disappointed by MGPR which implements > some > nice effects, but for example ignores hitting the curbes and has only > some > more or less realistic effects when crossing bumps in the track. > Then I tried the ViperRacing demo. The FF implementation in this sim is > simply > amazing. Beyond the usual stuff like locked brakes, on grass or dirt, > you can > even feel the wheight transfer. Accelerate hard and the front wheels > turn easy, > hit the brakes without locking up, they turn harder. During little jumps > they > turn easy as well. > I'm having a hard time describing it accurately, but this sim goes far > beyond the > silly twitch the wheel left, then right and rattle it a bit more like in > most > arcade racers. It really gives the impression of driving a race car at > the limit > and gives usefull feedback. > Oh, this rumour about an FF patch for GPL just made my day... > l8er > ronny > -- > How to get rid of censorship in German game releases > <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I'm putting some big hope on the GPL FF patch. Hope it won't take as long as the Red Baron 3D patch or the Nascar 2 3DFX support....

I agree. Viper approaches Hard Drivin' in it's FF response to the car handling - and it's only the demo! I'm holding out hope that the released version will be even better. I hope it's true that Papyrus is working on FF for GPL. BTW, the best time I've managed after 50 laps or so is 1:01. The readme says someone did a 58 second lap - anyone else getting close to that? And, how do you increase the NUMBER OF LAPS in the demo??? Two is not enough! -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html > Yup. Viper Racing is easily the best FF racing game available. I is many > steps above any other racing sim FF wise. > > Hi! > > Most guys including me reading this ng are/were very suspicious about > > the > > value of FF in racing sims. Well, to say it right away, I'm no longer... > > Using the MS FF wheel I was quite disappointed by MGPR which implements > > some > > nice effects, but for example ignores hitting the curbes and has only > > some > > more or less realistic effects when crossing bumps in the track. > > Then I tried the ViperRacing demo. The FF implementation in this sim is > > simply > > amazing. Beyond the usual stuff like locked brakes, on grass or dirt, > > you can > > even feel the wheight transfer. Accelerate hard and the front wheels > > turn easy, > > hit the brakes without locking up, they turn harder. During little jumps > > they > > turn easy as well. > > I'm having a hard time describing it accurately, but this sim goes far > > beyond the > > silly twitch the wheel left, then right and rattle it a bit more like in > > most > > arcade racers. It really gives the impression of driving a race car at > > the limit > > and gives usefull feedback. > > Oh, this rumour about an FF patch for GPL just made my day... > > l8er > > ronny > > -- > > How to get rid of censorship in German game releases > > <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> > > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> >I agree. Viper approaches Hard Drivin' in it's FF > >response to the car handling - and it's only the > >demo! I'm holding out hope that the released version > >will be even better. I hope it's true that Papyrus > >is working on FF for GPL. > Pat, could you tell me what type of FF wheel you are using?

I won an ACT Labs Force RS last weekend. Here's the scoop on GPL. As you may know, wheels which support I-Force allow for auto-centering tension in the wheel for win95 games that don't support force feedback. All that is required is for the win95 game to support Direct Input. With that said, GPL should allow an I-Force wheel to auto-center when using the direct input control option. It doesn't. Something in Papy's implementation of direct input has disabled the auto- centering feature. I've contacted Papyrus directly to ask for a fix, but so far haven't heard anything. I just hope the rumor of full FF support is true. I'll post any news I get as soon as I can. Unfortunately, since the RS wheel operates through a serial port, DOS games cannot read it. I'm hoping for a cartridge that works through a standard joystick port. Right now, there is no centering action in GPL - I hope that changes soon! -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

> BTW, the best time I've managed after 50 laps or > so is 1:01. The readme says someone did a 58 > second lap - anyone else getting close to that? i have done 59.00 twice :) couldn't quite manage to catch Troy's time and then the full version of GPL arrived... i'm looking forward to the full version of Viper, with the extra tracks it will be very much fun:)

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> > How does that FF wheel perform in GPL and other non-FF sims? > Here's the scoop on GPL. As you may know, wheels which support > I-Force allow for auto-centering tension in the wheel for win95 > games that don't support force feedback. All that is required > is for the win95 game to support Direct Input. With that said, > GPL should allow an I-Force wheel to auto-center when using > the direct input control option. It doesn't. Something in > Papy's implementation of direct input has disabled the auto-

I doubt, if the sim has anything to do with the auto-centering of the wheel. If there is no FF from the sim, it should see the wheel just as an ordinary joystick. The force for auto-centering is done automatically by the wheel. At least that's the way it works with the MS FF wheel. l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Just out of curiostiy, how is that possible? DOS can read a serial port and whats more is that I have a CH Force FX that uses the same setup (joystick and serial connection) and yet works with DOS. If you're having problems with DOS support you may want to contact ACT Labs because they claim FULL DOS support (unlike the MS FF) and the use of a serial port is no reason for lack of DOS support. -YUBS

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> > Unfortunately, since the RS wheel operates through a serial > > port, DOS games cannot read it. I'm hoping for a cartridge > > that works through a standard joystick port. > Just out of curiostiy, how is that possible? DOS can read a serial port > and whats more is that I have a CH Force FX that uses the same setup > (joystick and serial connection) and yet works with DOS. If you're > having problems with DOS support you may want to contact ACT Labs > because they claim FULL DOS support (unlike the MS FF) and the use of a > serial port is no reason for lack of DOS support.

The Force RS cartridge that I have does not have a standard joystick port connector - only a serial connector. A DOS application that reads the joystick port will not see any controller present. -- ------------------------------------------------------ IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html ------------------------------------------------------

Well, I'd reccomend contacting ACT Labs because they claim full DOS support (I'm still curious as to how it works without a joystick connection). If they claim something and ain't delivering, you should definetely voice a concern... -YUBS

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> > > Unfortunately, since the RS wheel operates through a serial > > > port, DOS games cannot read it. I'm hoping for a cartridge > > > that works through a standard joystick port. > > Just out of curiostiy, how is that possible? DOS can read a serial port > > and whats more is that I have a CH Force FX that uses the same setup > > (joystick and serial connection) and yet works with DOS. If you're > > having problems with DOS support you may want to contact ACT Labs > > because they claim FULL DOS support (unlike the MS FF) and the use of a > > serial port is no reason for lack of DOS support. > The Force RS cartridge that I have does not have a > standard joystick port connector - only a serial > connector. A DOS application that reads the > joystick port will not see any controller present. > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > IMPACT Motorsports > http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html > ------------------------------------------------------