GPL difficulty

Im new to racing sims also (had to replace Warbirds with something) and Im also hooked. I improved times mostly by getting in car with drivers and watching shifts and line.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > at this sim? > Please? > Planedoc

-- Don

Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well at this sim? Please? Planedoc

Nothing will help you as much as practice. Here's a nice site with some good hints, have a look at 'em. Start with the advanced trainer and stick with it until you feel safe enough with it. It makes no sense taking the GP car until you're really good. http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/

Read Steve Smith's book, the style is a bit on the zazzy style for me, but stick with it there are tons of helpful hints there. Also stick with the game - it's well worth the effort. I set myself personal milestones like a sub-1:10.00 lap at Watkins Glen or what- and where-ever. There's an amazing sense of acheivement to be had from acheiving these targets. Eventually, after as few as 50 laps you'll no longer be worrying about keeping the car on the road and be able to push it just a little bit - and then a bit more - and then think about taking the corners just a bit faster and braking just a bit later. Then you'll be flying. It is a difficult game but it also has high pay-offs. Lat week I mastered opposite lock and I can't tell you the thrill it gave me. Don't be put off by the amazing times that people are talking about - they'll come. Also race other people of your standard on the web. There's no point racing the masters - it'll just depress you. Paul

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > at this sim? > Please? > Planedoc

Practice, practice, practice. Start slow , don't even squeal the tires, and work up from there. Try the trainers in testing first, then graduate to the GP cars in testing. First, you've got to learn the track. Then, you've got to learn to get around it comfortably. Then, you've got to learn to drive it at the limits. Takes time, patience, and the will to do it. But the rewards are awesome! -- Don Burnette Palmetto Racing Dburn on Ten AOLL Iroc Administrator >Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, >but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell >me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well >at this sim? >Please? >Planedoc

Simple! Do laps. Do Laps. Do laps.........................

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > at this sim? > Please? > Planedoc

-- Byron Forbes Captain of Team Lightning Bolt http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS and http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Yeah, it is. Ain't it wonderful? You ever see those guys on the tube get pissed and toss their steering wheels in the dirt as they crawl from the wreckage of their ambitions for the day? Good thing mine's clamped down. That's why they call it a SIM. Like everyone says, try the trainers, particularly the G2, as it helps you learn to deal with excess power better. And learn to work the throttle as much as the steering. Resist the urge to just nail it, and it'll come to you. Slow down and you'll go faster. Steve B.

I'm still pretty much in the Mostly Harmless category myself, but a few things helped me improve from Harmless. 1) Bought a fairly decent wheel/pedal setup (F1 Sim in the UK). My only regret is not saving a while longer and importing a bottom end TSW, now I've got to wait till I break this set... which should be about three months judging by current wear and tear! :-) If you use a joystick at least invest in a decent set of pedals that allow separate brake and throttle axes. 2) In the full sim I have to cut the fuel load to about 10 gallons. With a full tank the car handles scarily, and the back end flies out really easily. 3) Brake first, drop gears later. Took me a while to learn this, but braking is much more controlled if I resist the temptation to drop down the gear box before I've burnt off a lot of momentum. 4) Be gentle with the brake and throttle. I find myself making the smallest of movements with my throttle foot as I'm cornering on the edge of the performance envelope (sounds impressive, looks less so in action :-) 6) I tend to "modulate" the brake... trying to act like an ABS system. Helps avoid lockups. Not sure whether it helps much, but it makes me think it helps, so I guess it helps... I think. Pardon? 6) If in doubt, slow down! Driving slowly is embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as shunting someone online. Andrew McP

> Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > at this sim? Drive. I've done at least 200 laps at WG, and am still a long way from the best times on the 'net (my time 1:06:61, I believe the best is somewhere around 1:04:50). -- Anssi Lehtinen

On Tue, 03 Nov 1998 03:04:15 +0000, Paul Jones > It is a >difficult game but it also has high pay-offs. Lat week I mastered opposite >lock and I can't tell you the thrill it gave me. What exactly is opposite lock? David Snider

OK, OK, I know It's a bit lame but could someone tell me what a TSW is? I'm always reading about them here. Is it like a HyperStim or something? Cheers! -- Graeme Nash You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 "Do I know what rhetorical means?!" - Homer Simpson

I don't believe you have to be the best to have fun. I drive the Ferrari and use the default setups (with less fuel) for all the tracks except Monza. They say Monza responds better to tweaking because the road is flat, not crowned like Watkins Glen for example. My best at the Glen is 1:07.44 I believe. I'm usually in the top 1-10 when racing and enjoy competition for 3rd as much as 7th. Slowly I'm getting faster with watching for new lines and shift points. I figure the tweaking will come after I can run 5 or more consistant laps.

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > > at this sim? > Drive. I've done at least 200 laps at WG, and am still a long way from the > best times on the 'net (my time 1:06:61, I believe the best is somewhere > around 1:04:50). > -- > Anssi Lehtinen

-- -------- Jason Monds (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

It's a spin correction technique. As you start to lose the back end, steer in the direction of the spin and this miraculously rescues the car. Steve Blank gave this very good explaination of how it works to me on this newsgroup: 'Think of it as a lever. You've just barely applied enough force to cause the lever to begin to rotate, with the car's front end as the pivot. Opposite lock moves the pivot in the same direction as the rear, ending rotation, but moving the entire lever laterally. Push a pencil around on a desk and it's easy to see. That's why you always end up going wide with opp-lock. Eventually the tires will generate enough heat, and thus friction, to stop their slide, and with luck, you'll still be pointed in a desirable direction with pavement under your tires.' Paul

Quoted text (10 lines)

> On Tue, 03 Nov 1998 03:04:15 +0000, Paul Jones > > It is a > >difficult game but it also has high pay-offs. Lat week I mastered opposite > >lock and I can't tell you the thrill it gave me. > What exactly is opposite lock? > David Snider

Thomas Steering Wheel. They are the 2nd most expensive wheels you can by after ECCI wheels. They are vey good but so are ECCI ones, Paul

Quoted text (14 lines)

> >importing a bottom end TSW, > OK, OK, I know It's a bit lame but could someone tell me what a TSW is? > I'm always reading about them here. Is it like a HyperStim or something? > Cheers! > -- > Graeme Nash > You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ > ICQ# 11257824 > "Do I know what rhetorical means?!" - Homer Simpson

I think 1:06:61 is fast, but I guess it's all relative, Paul

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell > > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > > at this sim? > Drive. I've done at least 200 laps at WG, and am still a long way from the > best times on the 'net (my time 1:06:61, I believe the best is somewhere > around 1:04:50). > -- > Anssi Lehtinen

Having tried an ECCI, I think the TSW is superior in feel.

Quoted text (21 lines)

>Thomas Steering Wheel. They are the 2nd most expensive wheels you can by >after ECCI wheels. They are vey good but so are ECCI ones, >Paul >> >importing a bottom end TSW, >> OK, OK, I know It's a bit lame but could someone tell me what a TSW is? >> I'm always reading about them here. Is it like a HyperStim or something? >> Cheers! >> -- >> Graeme Nash >> You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... >> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ >> ICQ# 11257824 >> "Do I know what rhetorical means?!" - Homer Simpson

Randy Magruder [link lost in import]

>3) Brake first, drop gears later. Took me a while to learn this, but >braking is much more controlled if I resist the temptation to drop down >the gear box before I've burnt off a lot of momentum. Really? I found the opposite to be true for me. At high speeds the care seems more stable with very slight braking and downshifting, then I apply heavier braking as a decelerate. Joe

>Really? I found the opposite to be true for me. At high speeds the >care seems more stable with very slight braking and downshifting, then >I apply heavier braking as a decelerate. Don't worry, Andrew's advice is only for those who want to run 1:33s at Zandvoort.... <g,d&r> :-) Cheers! John

That's a tough one. Everyone has a different definition of "low cost" and "decent." For the price, one of the best wheels is the Thrustmaster SuperSport ($80.) Don't think it has seperate brake and throttle though. For that you need to spend a bit more for the Nascar Pro ($100.) Both of these wheels will eventually break their springs (typical Thrustmaster) but if you are at all handy, a call to Thrustmaster will get you a free new set. I've heard the Act Labs is nice ($60) but it doesn't have as nice a quick clamping system as the Thrustmaster. The MS FF wheel has the advantage of force feedback and optical pots which means you won't be replacing those but its price is getting into another territory ($200.) For $240 you can get a TSW2...quite rugged. Don't know if the TSW has seperate gas and brake in base model? If you are willing to crack $300 you can check out the ECC1. For $1200 you can get yourself a Hypersimulater. It looks like a mini-tireless F1 car. This thing is guaranteed to have your racing friends green with envy and your other friends and wife thinking you've totally lost it. Personally, I'm leaning toward the USB version of the MS wheel. I long to be rid of my joystick port with all its finickyness. Additionally, I'm looking forward to not having to dissassemble my Thrustmaster a couple times a year to replace springs and spray contact cleaner in the pots. I can live without FF and am hoping MS will come out with a FFless reduced price version of their wheel (similar to their USB Sidewinder Pro.) Good luck.

Thanks to everyone for the tips... guess I'm gonna go practice some more. On the same subject, I assume most people are using a wheel of some kind with this sim (I'm not at the moment)? What is a fairly decent low cost choice for a wheel? Thanks in advance Planedoc

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, >but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell >me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well >at this sim? >Please? >Planedoc

>>Really? I found the opposite to be true for me. At high speeds the >>care seems more stable with very slight braking and downshifting, then >>I apply heavier braking as a decelerate. >Don't worry, Andrew's advice is only for those who want to run 1:33s >at Zandvoort.... <g,d&r> :-) Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then heavy braking) or the other way around? I'm getting "OK" times at Monza, WatGlen and Kyalami, but I'm still a good five seconds off the leaders, and I don't really know how to close the gap. (I know the line - "Practice!" - but I seem to have hit a wall where I need some advice, I haven't been getting any faster the last 40 or 50 laps.) Joe

> 6) I tend to "modulate" the brake... trying to act like an ABS system. > Helps avoid lockups. Not sure whether it helps much, but it makes me think > it helps, so I guess it helps... I think. Pardon? Modulating the brake at the very edge of tire squeal definitely helps. What I do is first push the brake very near to lockup, then just keep modulating it, until finally releasing some pressure, but still braking while turning into the turn. The same, but opposite, goes for leaving the turns with throttle. -- Anssi Lehtinen

On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:23:51 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring" >>On the same subject, I assume most people are using a wheel of some >>kind with this sim (I'm not at the moment)? What is a fairly decent >>low cost choice for a wheel? >If you are willing to crack $300 you can check out the ECC1. The ECCI starts at US$995. The HyperStimulator starts at US$500. Peter Holt

Well, I did say I *thought* it helped me to be more stable :-) I think the key is being very careful whatever the style you use to scrub off mph. Andrew McP

You mean you brake at Zandvoort? Huh, next you'll be telling me there's more than one gear in the Lotus! Andrew McP PS You're in for a thorough Blousing when Quake Arena's out... assuming I can find a decent sniping position :-p Also assuming I can tear myself away from GPL for long enough to install it.

Quoted text (10 lines)

>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:23:51 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring" >>>On the same subject, I assume most people are using a wheel of some >>>kind with this sim (I'm not at the moment)? What is a fairly decent >>>low cost choice for a wheel? >>If you are willing to crack $300 you can check out the ECC1. >The ECCI starts at US$995.

OUCH....I think I'd get myself a used Honda Nighthawk first! $500?....you are talking the "build it yourself" kit, right? Anyway, I can't afford the floorspace or my wife's disdain. I get enough flak for the little seat time I do get.

On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:47 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), >You mean you brake at Zandvoort? Huh, next you'll be telling me there's >more than one gear in the Lotus! That was in the LOTUS?! Jeez, it gets worse and worse... ;-) I'll look forward to it (and you might be right). My Quake skills are sadly depleted after lying unused for over a year, as I found out at our GPL LAN weekend last Saturday. We fired up Quake for a game and I got totally wasted :-) Still damn fun though! Cheers! John

>Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then heavy >braking) or the other way around? Somewhere inbetween, and depends on the corner I think. If you downshift early into the braking zone you increase the risk of toasting your engine, upset the car balance due to the increase of engine braking, and increase the risk of locking up the rear since the rears will have braking force and engine braking force - your brake balance needs to take care of that. The advantage of course is increased braking force and less to do when you actually get into the corner proper. Braking later gives you more to do and the engine, still turning in a high gear, has a tendency to push you deeper into the corner as well. Add to that the lower braking force and it looks a bad option. Fact is that that the tyres only have so much grip and your car can easily exceed it under braking. Whether you use that grip by braking or by engine braking seems less important than the overall balance of the car, so I'm sure everyone's mileage will vary. From what I've seen some hotlappers downshift very late, while others downshift early. FWIW I tend to do about half my shifting early, and the other half later. At Tarzan for example I hit the brakes just past the bales on the right, drop down to third, then just on turn in I drop down another gear and complete the turn-in to the apex. Cheers! John

> Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then heavy > braking) or the other way around? I am in no way a fast GPL'er, but it seems that this would be extremely *** the engine in a medium to long race. Are you experiencing engine failures after putting in a lot of consecutive laps using this technique? Dave Ewing

>I'll look forward to it (and you might be right). My Quake skills are >sadly depleted after lying unused for over a year, as I found out at >our GPL LAN weekend last Saturday. We fired up Quake for a game and I >got totally wasted :-) Still damn fun though! At least you had SOME skills to facilitate survival. I didn't have a clue ... you probably noticed .... d8?) Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Buckinghamshire, England, UK Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z

I've found that going slow is good at first. You have to learn the track. If you are using Shifting help, it makes it harder because the cars are always running at the highest RPM possible. If you shift yourself, you can keep the cars at low RPM's and they don't have as much torque, making them easier to drive because they don't light up the back end (you can spin these things out easily in 4th or 5th gear).

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, >but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to tell >me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well >at this sim? >Please? >Planedoc

>I am in no way a fast GPL'er, but it seems that this would be extremely >*** the engine in a medium to long race. Are you experiencing >engine failures after putting in a lot of consecutive laps using this >technique? No, but I haven't done any long races yet. Joe

On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:45:06 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring"

Quoted text (27 lines)

>>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:23:51 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring" >>>>On the same subject, I assume most people are using a wheel of some >>>>kind with this sim (I'm not at the moment)? What is a fairly decent >>>>low cost choice for a wheel? >>>If you are willing to crack $300 you can check out the ECC1. >>The ECCI starts at US$995. >OUCH....I think I'd get myself a used Honda Nighthawk first! >>>For $1200 you can get yourself a Hypersimulater. It looks like a >>>mini-tireless F1 car. This thing is guaranteed to have your racing >friends >>>green with envy and your other friends and wife thinking you've totally >lost >>>it. >>The HyperStimulator starts at US$500. >>Peter Holt >$500?....you are talking the "build it yourself" kit, right? Anyway, I >can't afford the floorspace or my wife's disdain. I get enough flak for the >little seat time I do get.

Yeh, that's the 'cut the chassis parts out yourself' kit but for US$200 more you can get the pre cut chassis, still cheaper than ECCI. Peter Holt

I'm not sure which model it was. Marc Nelson could probably tell you as it was his ex-boss' model I tried when attending the Long Beach Grand Prix in March or April. I think it was the 'standard' model. I didn't like the thickness of the wheel (way too thick), the location and feel of the buttons on the front of the wheel and overall just felt sloppy trying to drive a sim car in the thing. Randy

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Randy Magruder, described by the Rev Spooner as a shining wit, said: >>Having tried an ECCI, I think the TSW is superior in feel. >Out of interest, which model did you try? >"Feel" is always an intensely personal thing but I much prefer my CDS4000 >to any of the TSWs I've tried. >Cheers, >Richard

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

> > Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then heavy > > braking) or the other way around? man, i thought that i was the only one. i do the downshifting first to help slow the car to a manageable level. i usually wreck out pretty fast so the accumulated impact of high-revs doesn't have a chance to knock me out. as a carry-over from NASCAR2, i put the brake pedal all the way down for every hard corner. since there is not any resistance, it would be very hard to find the correct spot for pushing down the pedal. heck, i do the same for the accelerator, too (when i can). like you, i am about 5 seconds from the studs (e.g. - lord graeme nash, et al). i don't imagine that i can get much quicker than what i am doing right now. my guess is that we will both have to learn a little touch. j man, those curbs at silverstone bite!

>I'm not sure which model it was. Marc Nelson could probably tell you >as it was his ex-boss' model I tried when attending the Long Beach >Grand Prix in March or April. I think it was the 'standard' model. I >didn't like the thickness of the wheel (way too thick), the location >and feel of the buttons on the front of the wheel and overall just >felt sloppy trying to drive a sim car in the thing. Was that the model with the paddle shifter behind the wheel? The inner buttons of the CDS4000/paddles *are* quite awkward to reach, although if you've used a very original CDS you'd recognise the button unit and realise it's actually quite a cunning solution ECCI have implemented to enable the excellent paddle shifters they have on their newest CDS4000 model. I always found the outer buttons on the very original CDS to be extremely convenient for normal shifting, and the inner ones a bit of a stretch for my average hands, but then I only ever used one of them for reverse back in the days of Nascar and Indycar 1/2. The feel of the new CDS4000 is *way* improved over the original CDS. I'd been so used to the original that I immediately liked the newer model when I got it. But it wasn't until I briefly tried the old CDS after a few days living with the new one that I found myself stunned at the difference. The older model is, frankly, ***in comparison. But then it *is* 3 years old now. And given that the CDS4000 can be fairly easily customised to be lighter, or much heavier, that's a handy bonus. I left it at the default setting myself, although I did adjust the travel which at 240degrees I found to be too much for my tastes. Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Buckinghamshire, England, UK Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z

Oh sorry, I meant lotus *position*. I find it really hard to reach the pedals with my knees. Ditto... for me Q2 marked the beginning of the end. I never quite gelled with the new scheme of things. Old dog, new tricks maybe :-) Andrew McP

imhe, different types of corners need different shift / brake processes. some are better driven 'shift first, then brake' and some the other way around. that's been my experience anyway. try a balloon filled with water under the brake pedal (experiment with the amount of water to find something that is comfortable.

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > > Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then heavy > > > braking) or the other way around? > man, i thought that i was the only one. i do the downshifting first to > help slow the car to a manageable level. i usually wreck out pretty fast so > the accumulated impact of high-revs doesn't have a chance to knock me out. > as a carry-over from NASCAR2, i put the brake pedal all the way down for > every hard corner. since there is not any resistance, it would be very hard > to find the correct spot for pushing down the pedal. heck, i do the same > for the accelerator, too (when i can). like you, i am about 5 seconds from > the studs (e.g. - lord graeme nash, et al). i don't imagine that i can get > much quicker than what i am doing right now. my guess is that we will both > have to learn a little touch. > j > man, those curbs at silverstone bite!

-- In a feeble attempt to thwart spammers I have altered my email address. Remove the obvious bit before replying. "I worry that the person who thought up Muzak may be thinking up something else.

> Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well > at this sim? Slow the hell down and concentrate on keeping the car under control. It really is that simple, but it means that you need to pansy-ass around for a bunch of laps until you can start to turn in solid lap times... ---Jim

> >>Really? I found the opposite to be true for me. At high speeds the

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >>care seems more stable with very slight braking and downshifting, > then > >>I apply heavier braking as a decelerate. > >Don't worry, Andrew's advice is only for those who want to run > 1:33s > >at Zandvoort.... <g,d&r> :-) > Seriously, do fast GPLer's use my technique (downshifting then

heavy > braking) or the other way around? > I'm getting "OK" times at Monza, WatGlen and Kyalami, but I'm still > a > good five seconds off the leaders, and I don't really know how to > close the gap. (I know the line - "Practice!" - but I seem to have I brake as gently as possible, and a split second after I start braking I change down through the gears, as I feel using the gears helps braking? I tend to increase braking as I go through the braking area, and ease off the brakes as gently as possible at the end of the braking area (hopefully at the correct speed in the correct gear, but usually I find I've overbraked!!!! and wish I'de braked a bit later and gone a bit quicker through the corner) 8-) *Peter* 8-) (NB: remove asterisk to e-mail)

>"Feel" is always an intensely personal thing but I much prefer my CDS4000 >to any of the TSWs I've tried. Q.E.D. - I tried a CDS4000 and also the original CDS at last weekend's GPL LAN weekend, and I marvel at how anyone could drive with them. I struggled to lap even Zandvoort and yet back to my own TSW I was running mid 1:26s again. It just goes to show that not only is "feel" a very individual thing, but it will depend upon what you are used to up until now. I found the pedal throw on the CDS4000 to be way to short to get good braking levels, but others seemed to drive it okay. Cheers! John

Yes! It took me awhile to realize this. In the demo, I finally got frustrated after my 20th lap in a row ending in me sliding off at the Glen. I said to myself: "damn it, I'm going to get around this track even if I never shift past 3rd gear." So I started cruising. I pretended like I was in a rod a Sunday afternoon and was tooling around the countryside, opening it up on the straights to hear the engine. Surprisingly, I found myself really enjoying the experience. "Screw the laptimes," I said. "This is fun." Of course, after about 10 laps of that, I decided to push it a little more...then a little more...pretty soon I was lapping comfortably in the 1:10s-1:12s without ever making a mistake (OK, maybe every 20 laps I'll ***up trying to go through the 90 too fast). This is nothing particularly groundshaking to the experts here, but considering that I'm not that good at these games, and that this was with the default setup in the Lotus, I am pleased. Give this a shot. Otherwise you'll just end up banging your head against the wall and never get anywhere. Jarrod Smith The Scripps Research Institute http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith

Quoted text (9 lines)

>> Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do well >> at this sim? >Slow the hell down and concentrate on keeping the car under >control. It really is that simple, but it means that you need to >pansy-ass around for a bunch of laps until you can start to turn in >solid lap times... >---Jim

Water and electrical parts don't mix. :) Some people use tennis balls. Jason. > imhe, different types of corners need different shift / brake processes. some > are better driven 'shift first, then brake' and some the other way around. > that's been my experience anyway. > try a balloon filled with water under the brake pedal (experiment with the > amount of water to find something that is comfortable. -- -------- Jason Monds (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

> Ok, I really like the looks of GPL. I WANT to like the sim overall, > but it's just to darn hard! I know I'm a wimp, you don't need to > tell > me. Are there any tips for a lamer like me who really wants to do > well > at this sim? Practice, practice, oh, and yet more practice. 8-) Start slow and learn the circuits and the cars (one at a time) and learn how the cars feel. Most people (Newbies) jump in the GP car and try to brake the lap record on thier first attempt, WRONG! Start in the trainer cars, and stick with one type of car, and one circuit, and just concentrate on staying on the track, forget about times at this stage. When you can consistently stay on the track, and you know roughly the layout of the circuit (do you know which bend is coming next?) then you can start to think about speed and laptimes. Do a normal lap where you manage to stay on the track, and note the laptime. Next time you drive a lap, merely concentrate on beating *that* last laptime, not any of the internet times, or the fastest lap records, just your own last best lap, and do not try to beat it by lots of time, just try to beat it, period, even if it is only by one hundredth of a second. Gradually do this, again and again, trying to beat your own best laps each time you go out on the track, after a while you will be amazed how much your laptimes have reduced? As you do this, you should also be trying to brake that little bit later, and accelerate out of corners that little bit earlier, and maintaining consistent lines through corners, following the apex, noting braking & gear change points on the circuit, etc. When you get down to fairly decent times, say within 10 seconds of the fast guys on the net, then you can really start looking at technique. Mastering opposite lock, trail braking, throttle steering, and even..... (fx:gulp) car set-ups. I also find it *very* helpful to watch other drivers, whether it is the GPL ai cars, or replays from the fast guys on the net, watch others and see where they brake, for how long, what gears are they using, when do they change gear, where do they accelerate out of the corners, etc, etc. But most of all, time on the track is what *really* matters..... 8-) *Peter* 8-) (NB: remove asterisk to e-mail)

>Remember that Stuart has got the pressure sensitive brake Difficult to forget with my chair sliding backward every time I reached Tarzan as I tried to fully depress the pedal! :-) I'm sure it would be possible, and indeed laptimes show that it must be. The TSW certainly has more usable pedal travel than any of the CDS models I've tried, and this makes for more adjustable braking for me. Cheers! John

Quoted text (22 lines)

> On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:45:06 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring" > >>On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:23:51 -0500, "Daniel H Lauring" > >>>>On the same subject, I assume most people are using a wheel of some > >>>>kind with this sim (I'm not at the moment)? What is a fairly decent > >>>>low cost choice for a wheel? > >>>If you are willing to crack $300 you can check out the ECC1. > >>The ECCI starts at US$995. > >OUCH....I think I'd get myself a used Honda Nighthawk first! > >>>For $1200 you can get yourself a Hypersimulater. It looks like a > >>>mini-tireless F1 car. This thing is guaranteed to have your racing > >friends > >>>green with envy and your other friends and wife thinking you've

totally For that much I can get two nice double-adjustable Koni shocks for my REAL car. At some point with this simulation silliness, it becomes cheaper to go buy a real car! Kurt

snip > For that much I can get two nice double-adjustable Koni shocks for my REAL > car. At some point with this simulation silliness, it becomes cheaper to > go buy a real car! Assuming, that you do live in the States: 55, maybe 60 mph? Hmm, so you've got a fast real car, but what can you do with it? And if you go faster anyway, the tickets will make your real car really expensive, don't they? ;^) l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

> snip > > For that much I can get two nice double-adjustable Koni shocks for my REAL > > car. At some point with this simulation silliness, it becomes cheaper to > > go buy a real car! > Assuming, that you do live in the States: 55, maybe 60 mph? Hmm, so > you've got > a fast real car, but what can you do with it? Drive it on the racetrack. Kurt

Do well? As everyone says, infinite practice time. Do better as a lamer? 1. Symmetrical setups are easier to drive. The defaults for the first two tracks you're likely to try (Monza, Watkins) are assym. Change them. No more than 2 clutches in the diff. 2. Frame rate matters. If your hardware and settings aren't giving you 30+, it's harder. 3. One word. Ferrari. Avoid the Lotus at all costs, the Eagle is doable, particularly at Watkins. 4. Get on the brakes faster, get on the gas slower. bob (lamer credentials - my bests are 1:11 - Watkins,Eagle, 1:36 - Monza,Ferrari(I know the top speed sucks))

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >3. One word. Ferrari. Avoid the Lotus at all costs, the Eagle is > >doable, particularly at Watkins. > It seems that in most of the online races, the lotus is the most popular car. > I'm still a rank newbie and I like the lotus. I don't know why I just feel > the > most comfortable in it right now. Although it doesn't really make much > difference at this point in my "career".

Comfortable in the Lotus? Man, that car feels to me like a piece of soap on a wet floor. Imagine how much sturdier thw other cars will feel when you drive them. Try the Eagle. Steady as a rock. He-he... Too late. I never go pit out unless I've gotten a few sips of that good Rioja. (IRL however it's a total no-no to drink and drive, of course). /petern

Quoted text (7 lines)

>>3. One word. Ferrari. Avoid the Lotus at all costs, the Eagle is >>doable, particularly at Watkins. >It seems that in most of the online races, the lotus is the most popular car. >I'm still a rank newbie and I like the lotus. I don't know why I just feel the >most comfortable in it right now. Although it doesn't really make much >difference at this point in my "career".

It isn't the easiest racecar to drive, that is clear. The Ferrari and the Eagle have been my other two drives... and they are more forgiving- particularly on the *** braking zones that lie in turns (like France, Canada, Monaco and somewhat in Mexico). But I do like the Lotus. The ferrari sounds like you are going incredibly fast, but in the end, I, at least, wasn't. So funny you should say this. I've noticed that even the slightest amount of alchol takes a toll. Everyone should try this (only with their sim! And not online! ) sometime, if only to convince themselves of just how much driving and alchol don't mix. It is really incredible. You realize that while you can sort of navigate a familliar track (though not as well), your ability to manage a driving crisis is completely obliterated even well before drunk. It isn't that I don't see the crisis... there just seems to be such a lazy-like feeling about trying to figure them out! I wonder if avid sim racers drink less than the average population. Certainly the hobby doesn't suit drinking, at least in my case.