GPL online and "Politeness"

To the whole r.a.s. collective: After running in three races online last night, and two the night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend: Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat. I know it may be frustrating to some drivers to have to contend with slower cars...while I'm reasonably fast at some tracks, I am definitely not fast on all of them (if you see me show up at Mosport, you might as well park your car to avoid me!), and while not the slowest, I started there just as most all of you probably did. This does not, however, make cursing other drivers in chat mode during the race and after an acceptable thing to do. I wasn't shocked to hear it (I used to be a patch-holding "Outlaw" biker back in my younger days, so nothing really suprises me), but I thought it was rather thoughtless of some in the race to openly flame someone who is having a bit of difficulty in driving. This isn't the way to win friends and influence people. Two nights ago at Zandvoort, we had (at least up front) an awesome race, where only 3 of the drivers were really reasonably fast, and the rest were well back in times, but they are learning too. I was one of those back in times...I had only driven Zandvoort for the first time for about 20~30 laps the night before, but I figured I could still run and just stay out of the way. As it turned out, I qualified a bit over 3 sec. behind, but got a good clean start and was in 2nd by the third turn. By following the leader around and noting which lines will work (the AI cars are a bit too "perfect" in their lines to learn anything but the "ideal" line), I was able to drop my lap times to those equal to the race leader, and a full 3 seconds per lap faster than I'd ever ran before. The two of us never got separated by more than 20 car lengths until I closed and started pressuring him, and rather than try a risky pass, I waited for a mistake. It happened, and I cleanly passed and (eventually) won. Others slower drivers can benefit the same way as I did, and they (nor I) need anyone else to tell us that we are an ass, what we do with our mothers, goats, etc. We're there to compete, to try to go fast, and to *learn* from the fast drivers. Last night at Spa, drivers were openly hostile to some others who didn't clear the track for the faster cars when being overtaken and lapped. This is uncalled for in any race, and only serves to discourage more drivers from playing online. It's *NOT* the private playground of a select few. If you feel the need to only run with your pals, then by all means feel free to do so....and password the race so no one else can enter! I had fun at Spa, learned a few new lines/ways to get around the course, and shaved significant time off my best ever laps. Later on at one of the two Monza races, I was taken out by a car with BAD warping problems wile running pretty well and in the top 3. I waited until I had him on a long straight and he was full left, and went full right so as to give plenty of room, and still got nailed when his car warped into my left tires. Did I call him names? *** to anyone who'd listen? Nope. That is online racing. I'm sure future improvements in VROC software will enable hosts to limit the number of players and whatnot, but for now, almost all of us are "new" to GPL online...give us a break. Getting all worked up over it isn't worth it...how you gonna play in the good series coming up if you die of a aneurysm (sp?) because someone plowed you at Parabolica in the racing equivalent of a "pickup game"? In short, everyone needs to follow a few simple rules: Be reasonably polite to other drivers, you were once new to racing as well. LOOK at the comment field on the VROC site before Joining a game...if it says 10 cars max. and there are already 12 there, don't join! (There does seem to be a bit of a problem with VROC correctly counting cars, however. Spa showed 8 when I joined and there were already 15~17 there. (Yes, ***ia, I did a new complete Status before joining.) Likewise, if it says "< 1:40 laps" and you cannot run consistent 1:39's at least, don't join! It is the host's computer you're on...respect their wishes! Lastly to those who seem to think themselves as "elite" racers...password your races if you don't want us "lamers" (your words, not mine) participating. Once in your secure little world, you can call each other all the names you'd like. If you don't lock the rest of the world out, don't start publicly whining about how someone knocked you out of the race....you (in a sense) asked for it. BTW, I should have the parts for the 'puter upgrade here today (fingers crossed), so I should be back to hosting on the T-1 sometime this weekend. With the additional speed, I should be able to have a full field of 20 on with no problems. I do race offline, as well as for real in a real car some weekends, so I've got my Kevlar suit....flame away at my comments if you must. Doc Wynne Technical Support & Network Services Support Engineering/dickson.net http://www.dickson.net -- Never a late apex, never a dull moment.

Yeah.. I think I was there at Spa too. Some bonehead (began with an "M") was swearing at people. He was warping terribly. I just happened to be one of the people that had an incident with him in practice, I believe. Coming out of the Burnenville(I'd just nailed it), I was going about 165mph and Nothing ahead of me.All of a sudden Whamo... I hit someone. (Insert swearing here... mine was in my head for a second, I believe I may have even typed "Shit.. where did you come from.. sorry"... (not mad, just stunned). The ranting & raving started as I went back to the replay ("Idiots!! Go somewhere else. If you can't keep up to our times, GET OUT OF HERE!" or something was what he was saying to people - might I add, he had crashed on the first two corners of that lap by himself). He was warping so badly that his car had disappeared from the time he was going through Burnenville until I crashed into him at Malmady. Most of the other racers online at the time appeared fine on the replay. What's more, later as the practice session ended, this guy ignored REPEATED requests to come in to the pits immediately. I think he thought this means drive to the pits ASAP. NO!! -- Hit "ESC" and return. Some people are in Europe and have to pay by the minute for phone calls - I'm sure they appreciate it when people keep the game moving along. Five minutes later, the race started (it was a looonngg lap! - probably he lost his concentration when the host started shouting at him) Bottom line: Be CONSIDERATE of others on the track. Watch your mirrors, move off the racing line if you are going slow (especially IF YOU ARE ON YOUR OUTLAP). Pull over to one side & wave your arm to indicate to the driver that you are moving over for them. Don't shift-R if you can help it (if you're upside down or lost a wheel - ok... but if you're just on the curbing... DRIVE back on!) - AND DON'T move onto the racing line or stay in the centre of the track. I think I might publish a GPL Netiquette Guide. doktorB http://webhome.idirect.com/~drbryan/gpl -- Exclusive offer: PDPI L4 Digital Gamecard ONLY $80.95 US with Passwords on my GPL page Get rid of Jitters & poor framerates today! -- >To the whole r.a.s. collective: > After running in three races online last night, and two the >night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend: > Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat.

I'm glad to say I've never experienced any online impoliteness but it certainly seems to happen. The other day I was doing an online pracrice session at Mexico. I got it a bit wrong at turn 1 and the poor guy behind me had nowhere to go except into my gearbox. I'd messed up his lap and I said sorry. He replied with "No Problem!" and we carried on. Why can't it always be like this....? Cheers! -- Graeme Nash You know what to do with "don't_spam_me"... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/ ICQ# 11257824 "My car appeared to disagree with my preference for living"

: To the whole r.a.s. collective: : After running in three races online last night, and two the : night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend: : Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat. <big ol' snip> Amen, brother. We can't all be Jim Clarks off the bat. I think it is better for the online racing community as a whole if you are a bit patient with new drivers. Eventually they will improve and it will mean better competition for all of us. Snipe and *** at them, and they may go away and not come back. What is the point in that?! I used to play a bit of Quake when it first came out and the folks on servers were polite and really had fun. After a while it started to become chock-full of braggarts and *** folks. I don't have the time or patience with that sort of behaviour so I rarely play Quake any longer unless it is a bunch of folks I know. I guess the point I am trying to make here is that beginners need a nicer environment to learn how to race. True, some of us have had some seat-time in real race cars, know race strategy etc. Newbies need time to learn what its all about. The only way they can do it is by racing online. Sure, most of the people they race against will be faster. For now, at least.... Cut 'em a break. If someone balks you on a flier, remember that they are probably driving like hell to stay out of the way! It happens in "real" racing all the time. Why the heck wouldn't it happen online where the skill levels will be even more disparate? my $.02, J.

Hi Doc, Yeah I definitely agree, I've seen the same thing, even when hosting races on my server. You sometimes have the guys complaining about "I Can't get a clear lap in qualifying cuz all the slow drivers.." Guess what.. that's racing, if you want totally clear laps than go race offline or in training mode. I also have seen the guys who want to call the people names when accidents occur I think these people also should not be playing online. On my server when I see this going on, I ask the person to cut the attitude, that I want to keep my server a "friendly" server... so far that has worked. One of the times I was seeing this childish behaviour I was hosting Kaylami and I was one of the slow people this guy was ***ing about because of his ruined qualifying laps... Give me a break... I've raced on passworded servers running on PRO damage and I enjoy that too, but when I am racing on open online servers, I recognise when I'm joining the server that the racing atmosphere will be less serious and I wouldn't be racing there if I couldn't deal with it. Also I've seen the warping people too, and experienced the frustration of getting warp crashed while leading a last lap... I do the same thing you do Doc, get back on the track and continue, if I was that worried about warpers and slow drivers I would not be racing on open online servers. My advice to persons hosting who see bad behaviour, don't allow people to do that on your server... This would be even easier if Papyrus had given us a kick command on the server, but you can do your best to let these people know that bad behaviour is not welcomed on your server.. My advice to people who act like that, join an online league with higher skilled racers like yourself who make less mistakes, otherwise go back to racing the perfect AI or training mode by yourself on the track. The rest of us want a normal friendly racing atmosphere even with racing incidents where drivers who are slower than us are allowed out on the track, we will keep learning and having fun, this ain't real life folks, no need to get road rage. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva >To the whole r.a.s. collective: > After running in three races online last night, and two the >night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend: > Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat.

He may have had in-car chat turned off and just never saw it. I do this as some people insist on chattering all the time instead of driving and it can be quite distracting at the wrong moment. Cheers! John

Its because of a thread like this that I have a policy for GPL WS. No finger pointing/arguing about incidents during or after league races (take it private or send a complaint to me as commish) and NO obscenity. Randy

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>Yeah.. I think I was there at Spa too. >Some bonehead (began with an "M") was swearing at people. He was warping >terribly. I just happened to be one of the people that had an incident with >him in practice, I believe. Coming out of the Burnenville(I'd just nailed >it), I was going about 165mph and Nothing ahead of me.All of a sudden >Whamo... I hit someone. (Insert swearing here... mine was in my head for a >second, I believe I may have even typed "Shit.. where did you come from.. >sorry"... (not mad, just stunned). >The ranting & raving started as I went back to the replay ("Idiots!! Go >somewhere else. If you can't keep up to our times, GET OUT OF HERE!" or >something was what he was saying to people - might I add, he had crashed on >the first two corners of that lap by himself). He was warping so badly that >his car had disappeared from the time he was going through Burnenville until >I crashed into him at Malmady. Most of the other racers online at the time >appeared fine on the replay. What's more, later as the practice session >ended, this guy ignored REPEATED requests to come in to the pits >immediately. I think he thought this means drive to the pits ASAP. NO!! -- >Hit "ESC" and return. Some people are in Europe and have to pay by the >minute for phone calls - I'm sure they appreciate it when people keep the >game moving along. Five minutes later, the race started (it was a looonngg >lap! - probably he lost his concentration when the host started shouting at >him) >Bottom line: Be CONSIDERATE of others on the track. Watch your mirrors, move >off the racing line if you are going slow (especially IF YOU ARE ON YOUR >OUTLAP). Pull over to one side & wave your arm to indicate to the driver >that you are moving over for them. Don't shift-R if you can help it (if >you're upside down or lost a wheel - ok... but if you're just on the >curbing... DRIVE back on!) - AND DON'T move onto the racing line or stay in >the centre of the track. >I think I might publish a GPL Netiquette Guide. >doktorB >http://webhome.idirect.com/~drbryan/gpl >-- Exclusive offer: PDPI L4 Digital Gamecard > ONLY $80.95 US with Passwords on my GPL page > Get rid of Jitters & poor framerates today! -- >>To the whole r.a.s. collective: >> After running in three races online last night, and two the >>night before, I see the start of a (to me) disturbing trend: >> Downright rude (and even hostile) drivers in chat.

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

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>On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:34:01 GMT, >> Last night at Spa, drivers were openly hostile to some others >>who didn't clear the track for the faster cars when being >>overtaken and lapped. >Doc, I haven't raced online, but I have raced (for years) in >real life. Here's a comment :

Me too. Been doing it "for real" for 27 years in almost anything with 2 or more wheels. I still do some autox weekends, where I find I'm still competitive. I do. I'll hold my line if it's anywhere other than a long straight so as to not throw the car off balance. Once to an area where I *know* I can safely move over, I do so, but watching my mirrors so I can verify that the way I'm moving off line isn't the one that the faster car has chosen to try to pass on their own. :) I finally figured out (after the race) that it wasn't me they were referring to....several of us were having a pretty good dice for the 4th thru the 7th positions, marked by a few goofs and a crash or three, usually out of control cars overcooking corners and bouncing back onto the track. Despite three off-track "excursions", I still finished 5th, 1:30 down to the winner. Regards, Doc phRed '95 - CSP #25 Team Monster Miata Stereo -- Never a late apex, never a dull moment.

Hmmm.. hadn't thought about that. Why though??? I see the messages in my peripheral view (I'm looking to the next corner already), and messaging REALLY does not both me WHATSOEVER. Distracting??? No! If you can't control your impulse to take your eyes every time a message pops up (when you're not going to read it anyway as you're "concentrating"), sorry!! - but I CAN! I wait till I'm on a straight section, then glance up for a fraction of a second. Sometimes the message will be gone by and I'll have missed it, but what's the diff??-- if you had Messaging turn off, you wouldn't have seen it anyways. At least with Messaging ON, you would have had a better opportunity to see the message. I might not catch every message, but would have to say I get most of them, and don't find chatter to be the source of many many Off-track excursions!! Anyhow, Chat Messaging should always be turned on in my opinion - like in this case, the host was INSTRUCTING the driver to exit the track - practice is over... come on... we don't want to sit around for 5 minutes watching you spin off the track whilst we have a race waiting to be started. Also, if a host is planning on disconnecting the server for whatever reason (extremely bad warping, 95% of the field wiped out on the grid, etc)... EVERYONE would benefit from knowing what was going on. Also, it is called "Communication" between the drivers. A "Sorry" if you inadvertantly cause an accident. A "laping u" if you're REALLY stuck behind a slow driver who won't move over, a "pitting" if your going to be slowing down on a lap to come into the pits, etc. etc. etc.. Granted, we should be concentrating on driving, not typing (I've typed many a message heading down the straights at Spa myself), but I really see the need for ALL drivers to be aware of what's going on. And hey... you might even know who to "avoid" from reading the messages! Everyone's entitled to their opinion/preferences, but John(& others)... I hope you SEE THE LIGHT!! Thanks, doktorB http://webhome.idirect.com/~drbryan/gpl >He may have had in-car chat turned off and just never saw it. I do >this as some people insist on chattering all the time instead of >driving and it can be quite distracting at the wrong moment.

> To the whole r.a.s. collective: SNIPPED***** Great post, very well written, and absolutely correct. I ahd my first taste of vroc a couple of nights ago, and the same thing was happening, I was at Kyalami (as it was the only race that was available) and I don't know the circuit at all, but am fairly quick at the circuits I know. I tried out a practice session and attempted to keep out of peoples way, as I was a lot slower than the quick guys cos the circuit was new to me. I did not take part in the race as I would not have been even slighlty competitive, but did want to try a practice session to just see if my set-up worked ok on vroc (it did, boy, it DID!) Some others at the circuit were also slow, and maybe due to inexperience were getting in the way of some of the other "quick" drivers, they were flaming people quite a bit? Totally unnecessary in my view. As you say, we were *ALL* slow at some time or another? (unless you were born with a silver joystick in your mouth?) Lets have a bit of patience and understanding....and keep out of *MY* way!!!! 8-) *Peter* 8-) (NB: remove asterisk to e-mail)

Well, we can agree to disagree. While I'm ontrack I have no interest in the chatter of others, commentaries or whatever, and my eyes will flick to anything that happens around me - it might be important. For that reason I see no reason to have chat on. It's not difficult to see after all - every marshall waving a flag is difficult to miss! This is common sense. If I move over I don't want the guy lapping me to start typing "Thanks" and***up in the next corner because of that and take me out. I moved over, he's grateful, why tell me? If someone moves over and I'm grateful I'll say so afterwards, but I'd hate to think people thought me rude because I DIDN'T type anything, preferring to concentrate on driving. I have :-) If other people need chat to know what's going on that's okay, but I don't see the need for it. As soon as people use it for meaningful stuff and not just chattering as I try to lap I might turn it on and, who knows, even look at it, but no need so far :-) Cheers! John

no problem.. To each his (or her) own! I'll be leaving mine on though.. doktorB --- >I have :-) If other people need chat to know what's going on that's >okay, but I don't see the need for it. As soon as people use it for >meaningful stuff and not just chattering as I try to lap I might turn >it on and, who knows, even look at it, but no need so far :-)