Avault Racing Games List

I've read all the posts about "everyone is entitled to their own opinions", but The Adrenaline Vault is a commercial *** site. They present themselves as a definitive *** site for reviews, previews, patches, demos, etc. Many gamers may rely on their site(among others) for reviews of games so that they can make informed purchasing decisions. Not everyone has enough time and bandwidth to weed through the good and bad of usenet and download huge demos. Therefore, a gamer may check out a *** site like The Adrenaline Vault for some advice. Hopefully they will get an unbiased, educated(meaning much time spent with a game), review that will help to steer them in the right direction on a specific game, given a gamers likes or dislikes. All reviewers will have different opinions, but The Adrenaline Vault should have some basic standards to help to make reviewing consistent, espeially within a genre. I have not found any information on their site that really outlines their reviewing criteria, outside of the individual categories(Graphics, Gameplay, Music), but overall there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. The lack of consistency can be shown in the following list of racing games, Arcade and Sim(only 6 that I would really consider Sim-like), that Avault has rated. I did not include hybrids like Interstate 76, Carmageddon, Jet Moto, or Twisted Metal 2. ***** 5 Stars ***** Monster Truck Madness 2 - Microsoft Motocross Madness - Microsoft ***** 4 1/2 Stars ***** CART: Precision Racing - Microsoft Motorhead - Fox Interactive Need for Speed II - Electronic Arts Need for Speed II: Special Edition - Electronic Arts Need for Speed III - Electronic Arts Redline Racer - Ubi Soft X-Car - Bethesda Softworks ***** 4 Stars ***** Andretti Racing - EA Sports Moto Racer - Electronic Arts Sega Rally Championship - Sega Test Drive 4 - Accolade Test Drive: Off Road - Accolade ***** 3 1/2 Stars ***** Burnout Championship Drag Racing - Bethesda Formula 1 - Psygnosis ***** 3 Stars ***** Castrol Honda Superbike World Champions - Intense Entertainment Circuit Racer - WizardWorks Formula 1 Championship Edition - Psygnosis SODA Off-Road Racing - Sierra ***** 2 1/2 Stars ***** Daytona USA Deluxe - Sega Grand Prix Legends - Sierra Sports Power F1 - Eidos Interactive ***** 2 Stars ***** NHRA Drag Racing - Mind Magic How, how , how can a game like Cart Precision Racing be rated so far ahead of Grand Prix Legends? Especially since that review was of the pre-patched, extremely buggy, terrible AI, version of CPR! They even mention the bugs but still give a great score, whereas the GPL review makes no mention of the incredible AI. I know it's different reviewers, but still this is just not right for Avault as a reviewing site to not at least have some consistency in reviews of similar products. Circuit Racer, Test Drive 4: Off Road, Need for Speed II? Ouch! It is also interesting to note the publisher of the top 3 products. Hey, I am a fan of some of these arcade titles also, but 5 stars? I would say for the most part, the formula according to Avault is: Sim Racing=Bad Arcade Racing=Good Microsoft=Good EA=Good Sierra=Bad Huh, maybe they are consistent and just not fair! Don Chapman

Your list really puts things in perspective! Among other things, GPL and Power F1 in the same ranking...Power F1 wasn't even a good arcade racer. Avault's reviews are obviously all over the map and inconsistent and just plain dumb. Usually, I would say so what--since you can gleam a lot of information and useful feedback from the text part of the review--but the GPL review was so off the mark with comments about race music, etc. that you wonder if anything on that site should be taken seriously. Marc.

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>I've read all the posts about "everyone is entitled to their own opinions", >but The Adrenaline Vault is a commercial *** site. They present >themselves as a definitive *** site for reviews, previews, patches, >demos, etc. Many gamers may rely on their site(among others) for reviews of >games so that they can make informed purchasing decisions. Not everyone has >enough time and bandwidth to weed through the good and bad of usenet and >download huge demos. Therefore, a gamer may check out a *** site like

The >Adrenaline Vault for some advice. Hopefully they will get an unbiased, >educated(meaning much time spent with a game), review that will help to >steer them in the right direction on a specific game, given a gamers likes >or dislikes. All reviewers will have different opinions, but The Adrenaline >Vault should have some basic standards to help to make reviewing consistent, >espeially within a genre. I have not found any information on their site >that really outlines their reviewing criteria, outside of the individual >categories(Graphics, Gameplay, Music), but overall there seems to be no >rhyme or reason to it. The lack of consistency can be shown in the following

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>list of racing games, Arcade and Sim(only 6 that I would really consider >Sim-like), that Avault has rated. I did not include hybrids like Interstate >76, Carmageddon, Jet Moto, or Twisted Metal 2. >***** 5 Stars ***** >Monster Truck Madness 2 - Microsoft >Motocross Madness - Microsoft >***** 4 1/2 Stars ***** >CART: Precision Racing - Microsoft >Motorhead - Fox Interactive >Need for Speed II - Electronic Arts >Need for Speed II: Special Edition - Electronic Arts >Need for Speed III - Electronic Arts >Redline Racer - Ubi Soft >X-Car - Bethesda Softworks >***** 4 Stars ***** >Andretti Racing - EA Sports >Moto Racer - Electronic Arts >Sega Rally Championship - Sega >Test Drive 4 - Accolade >Test Drive: Off Road - Accolade >***** 3 1/2 Stars ***** >Burnout Championship Drag Racing - Bethesda >Formula 1 - Psygnosis >***** 3 Stars ***** >Castrol Honda Superbike World Champions - Intense Entertainment >Circuit Racer - WizardWorks >Formula 1 Championship Edition - Psygnosis >SODA Off-Road Racing - Sierra >***** 2 1/2 Stars ***** >Daytona USA Deluxe - Sega >Grand Prix Legends - Sierra Sports >Power F1 - Eidos Interactive >***** 2 Stars ***** >NHRA Drag Racing - Mind Magic >How, how , how can a game like Cart Precision Racing be rated so far ahead >of Grand Prix Legends? Especially since that review was of the pre-patched, >extremely buggy, terrible AI, version of CPR! They even mention the bugs >but still give a great score, whereas the GPL review makes no mention of

the

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>incredible AI. I know it's different reviewers, but still this is just not >right for Avault as a reviewing site to not at least have some consistency >in reviews of similar products. Circuit Racer, Test Drive 4: Off Road, Need >for Speed II? Ouch! It is also interesting to note the publisher of the top >3 products. Hey, I am a fan of some of these arcade titles also, but 5 >stars? I would say for the most part, the formula according to Avault is: >Sim Racing=Bad >Arcade Racing=Good >Microsoft=Good >EA=Good >Sierra=Bad >Huh, maybe they are consistent and just not fair! >Don Chapman

I think the below sums up the inconsistencies - I have no problems with Motocross Madness getting five stars or MTM2 - both are really fun arcade games. However, anyone who rates the horrible handling X-CAR as 4.5 stars, SODA as 3 stars and then ranks GPL alongside Power F1 and Daytona USA obviously has a _serious_ reviewing deficiency. I mean really, X-CAR is better than GPL? It falls down horribly on every issue that GPL was seen as having problems on - difficult to drive, massively confusing setup options for the arcade fans, so-so graphics and AI etc etc. If the defence of Avault's review is that it is an arcade oriented site then no way should X-CAR or SODA have scored more highly. I'm not necessarily sure that "Sierra=Bad", but I'm sure that the "Good" will be near to the mark. Most of these sites (and magazines) will have had some pressure brought to bear by the games companies. That's the downside of most of your revenue coming from advertising. Cheers! John

of Grand Prix Legends? Money talks ? All the best, Edwin Solheim REMOVE SPAM-GUARD IN ADDRESS TO REPLY! Check out "The Paddock - a legendary site..." for some cool GPL-stuff!! [http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock)

Actually, I would rate SODA very close to GPL as far as physics. The rest of SODA is what fell *somewhat* short, but it is a very close sibling/precursor to GPL. Xcar was a sick, sick, joke. :) The Avault review listing is quite interesting indeed. It's a shame that people would depend on a site of reviews to purchase a game anyway, IMHO. Brett

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>I think the below sums up the inconsistencies - I have no problems >with Motocross Madness getting five stars or MTM2 - both are really >fun arcade games. However, anyone who rates the horrible handling >X-CAR as 4.5 stars, SODA as 3 stars and then ranks GPL alongside Power >F1 and Daytona USA obviously has a _serious_ reviewing deficiency. >I mean really, X-CAR is better than GPL? It falls down horribly on >every issue that GPL was seen as having problems on - difficult to >drive, massively confusing setup options for the arcade fans, so-so >graphics and AI etc etc. If the defence of Avault's review is that it >is an arcade oriented site then no way should X-CAR or SODA have >scored more highly. >>Microsoft=Good >>EA=Good >>Sierra=Bad >I'm not necessarily sure that "Sierra=Bad", but I'm sure that the >"Good" will be near to the mark. Most of these sites (and magazines) >will have had some pressure brought to bear by the games companies. >That's the downside of most of your revenue coming from advertising. >Cheers! >John

Steve Smith wrote an article "SODA - Papy's Misunderstood Sim" for SRN several months back before starting on the "4-Wheel Drift" book in GPL. If you would like to have a good read on how he rated the sim, go to: http://www.simracing.com/simracing/soda.html For now this is the only link, but soon will be tied to the main site. Cheers! Marc

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> Soda just needs d3d or 3dfx support, the game is a fabulous fun drive and I > think it was the original model that gpl was started with. Do yourself a > favor and pick SODA up, it is in the bargain bin ~20 us dollars. It works > well online as well . > SODA definitely gets my vote for most under rated driving sim. > Doug Greer > >What?? Soda very close to GPL as far as physics? Man, what you been > >drinking? > >Oops, wait a minute, I've never driven Soda > ><G> > >-- > >Don Burnette > >Palmetto Racing > >Dburn on Ten > >AOLL Iroc Administrator

-- Marc J. Nelson SimRacing Online - http://www.simracing.com/ * Switch confused.net with concentric.net to reply...Confused-yet? *

What?? Soda very close to GPL as far as physics? Man, what you been drinking? Oops, wait a minute, I've never driven Soda <G> -- Don Burnette Palmetto Racing Dburn on Ten AOLL Iroc Administrator >Actually, I would rate SODA very close to GPL as far as physics. The >rest of SODA is what fell *somewhat* short, but it is a very close >sibling/precursor to GPL. Xcar was a sick, sick, joke. :) >The Avault review listing is quite interesting indeed. It's a shame >that people would depend on a site of reviews to purchase a game >anyway, IMHO. >Brett >>I think the below sums up the inconsistencies - I have no problems >>with Motocross Madness getting five stars or MTM2 - both are really >>fun arcade games. However, anyone who rates the horrible handling >>X-CAR as 4.5 stars, SODA as 3 stars and then ranks GPL alongside Power >>F1 and Daytona USA obviously has a _serious_ reviewing deficiency. >>I mean really, X-CAR is better than GPL? It falls down horribly on >>every issue that GPL was seen as having problems on - difficult to >>drive, massively confusing setup options for the arcade fans, so-so >>graphics and AI etc etc. If the defence of Avault's review is that it >>is an arcade oriented site then no way should X-CAR or SODA have >>scored more highly. >>>Microsoft=Good >>>EA=Good >>>Sierra=Bad >>I'm not necessarily sure that "Sierra=Bad", but I'm sure that the >>"Good" will be near to the mark. Most of these sites (and magazines) >>will have had some pressure brought to bear by the games companies. >>That's the downside of most of your revenue coming from advertising. >>Cheers! >>John

Soda just needs d3d or 3dfx support, the game is a fabulous fun drive and I think it was the original model that gpl was started with. Do yourself a favor and pick SODA up, it is in the bargain bin ~20 us dollars. It works well online as well . SODA definitely gets my vote for most under rated driving sim. Doug Greer

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>What?? Soda very close to GPL as far as physics? Man, what you been >drinking? >Oops, wait a minute, I've never driven Soda ><G> >-- >Don Burnette >Palmetto Racing >Dburn on Ten >AOLL Iroc Administrator

I didn't get the impression the John was slating SODA. I took it that he was comparing it one to one with X-CAR: "X-CAR as 4.5 stars, SODA as 3 stars" but I may be wrong........... Paul

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> Actually, I would rate SODA very close to GPL as far as physics. The > rest of SODA is what fell *somewhat* short, but it is a very close > sibling/precursor to GPL. Xcar was a sick, sick, joke. :) > The Avault review listing is quite interesting indeed. It's a shame > that people would depend on a site of reviews to purchase a game > anyway, IMHO. > Brett > >I think the below sums up the inconsistencies - I have no problems > >with Motocross Madness getting five stars or MTM2 - both are really > >fun arcade games. However, anyone who rates the horrible handling > >X-CAR as 4.5 stars, SODA as 3 stars and then ranks GPL alongside Power > >F1 and Daytona USA obviously has a _serious_ reviewing deficiency. > >I mean really, X-CAR is better than GPL? It falls down horribly on > >every issue that GPL was seen as having problems on - difficult to > >drive, massively confusing setup options for the arcade fans, so-so > >graphics and AI etc etc. If the defence of Avault's review is that it > >is an arcade oriented site then no way should X-CAR or SODA have > >scored more highly. > >>Microsoft=Good > >>EA=Good > >>Sierra=Bad > >I'm not necessarily sure that "Sierra=Bad", but I'm sure that the > >"Good" will be near to the mark. Most of these sites (and magazines) > >will have had some pressure brought to bear by the games companies. > >That's the downside of most of your revenue coming from advertising. > >Cheers! > >John

CPR, while not a patch on GPL, is not a lightweight like F1'97. True the AI is poor, and true the cars seem to float on the track but IMO the game has a reasonable driving model. Paul

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> Don Chapman wrote... > >How, how , how can a game like Cart Precision Racing be rated so far ahead > of Grand Prix Legends? > Money talks ? > All the best, > Edwin Solheim > REMOVE SPAM-GUARD IN ADDRESS TO REPLY! > Check out "The Paddock - a legendary site..." for > some cool GPL-stuff!! > [http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock)

Thanks for the link. I missed Dougs original post here, but I agree with him, and also think Steve Smiths article was great. With the simple inclusion of 3Dfx support, this would have been my favorite racing sim of all time, and I'd still be playing it. Unfortunately, I don't have a Rendition card in my main PC, nor will I ever, because the next card I get is going to be an AGP Riva TNT to complement my STB V2 card. SODA plays OK on my current 2D card now that systems are so much faster, but alas, I've been spoiled by 3D cards and can't stand the look of sims without 3D acceleration. I remember reading the message here saying that NASCAR2 was getting a 3Dfx patch, and the SODA patch had been cancelled. Man, was I bummed. I felt SO bad for the Software Allies guys, because I think they wanted to do the patch. Steven Travers, you still out there buddy? -- http://www.users.fast.net/~fusion1 http://www.off-road.com/~fusion1 (dirt bikes, rat bikes, rental car abuse...)

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>>For now this is the only link, but soon will be tied to the main site. >>> Soda just needs d3d or 3dfx support, the game is a fabulous fun drive and I >>> think it was the original model that gpl was started with. Do yourself a >>> favor and pick SODA up, it is in the bargain bin ~20 us dollars. It works >>> well online as well . >>> SODA definitely gets my vote for most under rated driving sim. >Thanks for the link. I missed Dougs original post here, but I agree >with him, and also think Steve Smiths article was great. >With the simple inclusion of 3Dfx support, this would have been my >favorite racing sim of all time, and I'd still be playing it. >Unfortunately, I don't have a Rendition card in my main PC, nor will I >ever, because the next card I get is going to be an AGP Riva TNT to >complement my STB V2 card. >SODA plays OK on my current 2D card now that systems are so much >faster, but alas, I've been spoiled by 3D cards and can't stand the >look of sims without 3D acceleration. >I remember reading the message here saying that NASCAR2 was getting a >3Dfx patch, and the SODA patch had been cancelled. >Man, was I bummed. I felt SO bad for the Software Allies guys, because >I think they wanted to do the patch. >Steven Travers, you still out there buddy?

Hey, hi. Still in here, but not often. And I'm not at Papyrus anymore. steve sdt at rocketmail.com

Welcome back, Steven! > Hey, hi. Still in here, but not often. And I'm not at Papyrus anymore. > steve > sdt at rocketmail.com -- Marc J. Nelson SimRacing Online - http://www.simracing.com/ * Switch confused.net with concentric.net to reply...Confused-yet? *