So TNT is going to kick Voodoo2&Rendition's butt, right?

Now that it has OpenGL support? Nah, I don't think so, although I would like to si that. It would give me more fps, save a pci slot and I wouldn't have to listen to them people saying that my 3D card ( Monster 3D 2 ) sux. Borut P.S. Come on people, we wanna see 36 fps, all details, 19 cars, at start of the race on your TNTs.

Ups, did I mention that I was talking about GPL? Borut >Now that it has OpenGL support? Nah, I don't think so, although I would like

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>to si that. It would give me more fps, save a pci slot and I wouldn't have >to listen to them people saying that my 3D card ( Monster 3D 2 ) sux. >Borut >P.S. Come on people, we wanna see 36 fps, all details, 19 cars, at start of >the race on your TNTs.

Well, there is a new beta OpenGL driver for GPL so that could help a little! Please TNT owners post your observations, Borut. >On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:49:44 GMT, >>Your Monster 2 doesn't suck, it's just that there's a single card that does

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>>it all. Clearer. Higher res. 32bit color. Speed. Feature rich. One >>card. Why use 2 cards when your 2D card can best your 3D card? Makes no >>sense. >>If I check out GPL (haven't decided - not really my type of game) >>I'll repost whatever I find out for you. >Here's what you will find. You will find that your Riva is not supported >at all in GPL. You will be lurching along at 4 fps. The rest of us will be >shrieking with glee as we drive the most realistic racing sim of all time. >-- >// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com >// "Post in haste, repent at your leisure." - Prowler

Actually once NVidia resolves the driver issues it just might happen... - Eric

What problem? Borut

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>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:39:09 -0400, >>Actually once NVidia resolves the driver issues it just might happen... >>- Eric >If they resolve their driver issues, *lots* of things >may happen, but that's the problem, isn't it.. :) >>>Now that it has OpenGL support? Nah, I don't think so, although I would >>like >>>to si that. It would give me more fps, save a pci slot and I wouldn't >>have >>>to listen to them people saying that my 3D card ( Monster 3D 2 ) sux. >>>P.S. Come on people, we wanna see 36 fps, all details, 19 cars, at >>start of >>>the race on your TNTs. >-- >// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com >// "Post in haste, repent at your leisure." - Prowler

There is something definitely wrong with that guys setup, because I have incredible 2D performance from my Viper V550, and I do not have dual P2/300s either (not that I think dual would help one bit for playing GPL or most other games). What I like best is being able to run 32-bit color at high resolutions with no perceptible slowdown on 2D graphics. As for GPL, the replays look awesome with the OpenGL driver, but due to some issues (explained in the accompanying readme file), the***pit view is still much slower than my Voodoo2 card. There is hope though. I remember how once I had all the nVidia reference drivers in place how my old Viper V330 spanked my old Voodoo1 in Quake II. :) Clark A.

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>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:32:06 GMT, >>What problem? >The newsgroups are loaded with unhappy customers. >Here's one from today: >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,creative.products.graphics_blaster.riva_tnt >Subject: Help! Pathetic 2D performance with CL Riva TNT AGP >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:01:12 GMT >NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.239.13.204 >The real show-stopper is the pathetic 2D performance. Subspace is unplayable. >If there's any action on the sceen, framerates drop to 2-4 fps. In the >Windows Explorer (tm), I can see the directories slowly appear and disappear >when I expand and collapse the treeview (on the other hand, dragging windows >around is as fast as ever).

yes.. there is definetely something wrong with that guys setup. Who the heck uses a P2-300 dual system with Windows 95 anyways?? Doesn't he know he's still only using one CPU? (maybe he's stocking up for Falcon 4) :-) my STB TNT is ALOT faster than my Matrox Millenium was... of course that may be the diff between AGP and PCI. I must admit, there are games that do a few strange thinge... but even the voodoo did strange things when it first came out too. Just takes time for programmers to understand its barriers and limitations. That goes for any piece of hardware.

I certainly haven't experienced anything like that with the Viper 550. It replaced a Fire GL1000 Pro, and is a definite improvement on my system. Jerry Morelock

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>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:32:06 GMT, >>What problem? >The newsgroups are loaded with unhappy customers. >Here's one from today: >---------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------- >Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,creative.product s.graphics_blaster.riva_tnt

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>Subject: Help! Pathetic 2D performance with CL Riva TNT AGP >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:01:12 GMT >NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.239.13.204 >Greetings, >I've just replaced my Millennium II PCI / Voodoo I combo with the Creative >Labs Riva TNT AGP card, and I don't feel like I've traded up. While it's >nice to see my favorite games in higher resolutions, most of them show some >bizzare behavior. In Forsaken, some of the graphics are misplaced (tanks >appearing as covered turrets, covered turrets appearing as subway cars,

etc). >In G-Police, the game plays well, but the letters in the menus are >surrounded by a chunky black border. >The real show-stopper is the pathetic 2D performance. Subspace is unplayable. >If there's any action on the sceen, framerates drop to 2-4 fps. In the >Windows Explorer (tm), I can see the directories slowly appear and disappear >when I expand and collapse the treeview (on the other hand, dragging windows

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>around is as fast as ever). >I've heard enough people rave about both the 3D and 2D performance of this >card that I must believe that you're not all nuts. There must be something >wrong in my setup. The boring details appear below. >If anyone has seen similar symptoms, or has any suggestions, >please let me know. >Thanks in advance, >Brian Baker. >bfbaker _at sign goes here_ netcom.com >Hardware: >Supermicro P6DLF motherboard >Dual 300Mhz PIIs >256MB SDRAM >DPT 2144UW SCSI PCI card >Cogent EM960 ethernet PCI card >Software: >Windows 95 4.00.950 B >Latest CL TNT drivers (no tweeks) >BIOS: >AGP aperature size: 256MB >Palette snoop: Disabled >---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>>>On Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:39:09 -0400, >>>>Actually once NVidia resolves the driver issues it just might happen... >>>>- Eric >>>If they resolve their driver issues, *lots* of things >>>may happen, but that's the problem, isn't it.. :) >>>>>Now that it has OpenGL support? Nah, I don't think so, although I would >>>>like >>>>>to si that. It would give me more fps, save a pci slot and I wouldn't >>>>have >>>>>to listen to them people saying that my 3D card ( Monster 3D 2 ) sux. >>>>>P.S. Come on people, we wanna see 36 fps, all details, 19 cars, at >>>>start of >>>>>the race on your TNTs. >>>-- >>>// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com >>>// "Post in haste, repent at your leisure." - Prowler >-- >// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com >// "Post in haste, repent at your leisure." - Prowler

Wouldn't surprise me. User report on Papyrus's beta Open GL driver -------------------------------------------- My current OpenGL setup is a 4MB SGRAM Diamond Viper V330 (nVidia Riva 128) AGP running 66Mhz bus with 128MB aperture. I am running the Nvidia reference drivers in Win98. NOTE: I also have a 4MB EDO Diamond Monster 3D (orig Voodoo) PCI Voodoo clocked to 57MHz for GPL. For comparative frame of reference I also have a 4MB PCI Diamond Stealth II S220 (V2100) clocked to 55/110 (as per 1.36 BIOS) but don't currently use it for (a) lack of a spare PCI slot and (b) superior performance and compatibility of Viper generally (GPL excepted) as primary 2D and OGL. Shame, as the V2100 as in 800x600. I just downloaded and installed the Papyrus patch. Notably, nothing to the installation, just copy 2 files into ..\gpl Started GPL and sure enough there was the "Open GL" selectable option. Enabled it, restarted, left all options same (full) and went for a drive in 640x480. Disappointingly no anti-aliasing with the option still greyed out on the menu, although don't yet know if this is an editable option in the core.ini file? On the plus side, whilst still not truly frame rate competitive with either the equivilent legacy Voodoo or Verite 2x00s, it's a HUGE improvement over the 5-6fps I **was** getting with this card under software rendering. I'm getting around 25fps average in solo driving, thus making the sim usable whereas before, without Rendition or 3Dfx aboard it simply wasn't. Got to say at initial inspection the OpenGL graphics with this card are still as 'drop dead georgeous" as both the Rendition and 3Dfx, perhaps even a little better than the 3Dfx, but I wouldn't want to echo that without a second inspectin and closer look. I haven't tried it yet in 800x600 to see if it will run in that res, but if the older 'plain Jane' Riva 128 performs this well under the beta GPL OGL driver, there appears to be plenty of promise on the horizon for the significently faster TNT and a mature Papy OGL driver. I'll still use my Voodoo in the interim simply because of the superior framerate in 640x480, but this is great news for lots of people out there. Thanks Papy..

This is a problem on other cards as well. Try turning down the hardware acceleration slider in the advanced graphics option in the device manager or turning off DirectDraw hardware acceleration using DirectControl or DXTool. - Eric

You might also want to try the command line switch EMULATE (it will limit you to 1024x768 but should fix the problem): subspace.exe /EMULATE - Eric