"analog" clutch

I'm using a button on the wheel as a "digital" clutch in GPL. Is it possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch? i.e. not all on or all off. If so would you kindly tell me HOW, or direct me to such information. Thanks in advance

it should be, you can try to get a used pedal and use it as joystick 2, with some technique you should be able to combine them together

Larry, I had the samequestion a while ago, and am planning to implement a clutch in my Nascar Pro. Here is an anwer I recieved from this NG: --------------------from bobo88 GPL will pick up all 4 pedals (2 joysticks x 2 Axis's) On the Nascar Pro, the wiring from the joystick port (Sound Card interface) does not have the wires for all of the Axis's. So I obtained the connectors and wired it myself. Heres the connector pinout: Pin 1: +5vdc to the wheel (Center Tap) Pin 2: Joystick A Button 1 to the UP shifter Pin 3: Joystick A Axis X to the wheel (Outer Pin) Pin 4: Ground Common for ALL buttons Pin 5: Ground - not used - Pin 6: Joystick A Axis Y to the GAS pedal (Center Tap) Pin 7: Joystick A Button 2 to the DOWN shifter Pin 8: +5vdc - not used - Pin 9: +5vdc to the BRAKE & GAS pedal (Outer Pin) also CLUTCH (Center Tap) Pin 10: Joystick B Button 1 to the LEFT button (On the Wheel) Pin 11: Joystick B Axis X to the BRAKE pedal (Center Tap) Pin 12: (DO NOT USE) Midi - not used - Pin 13: Joystick B Axis Y to the CLUTCH pedal Pin 14: Joystick B Button 2 to the RIGHT button (On the Wheel) Pin 15: (DO NOT USE) Midi - not used -

Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus have an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an on/off switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent starts without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have something. Steve B.

I agree. From what I've read (also in the GPL book) that the clutch was not meant to be a full function control but more or less a switch function. And it seems that it was not used any differently in real life either -- just to get going and prevent stalls during a spin. Either case it can be handled with a button. Still, it might give a more natural feel with a pedal and it would be ready when the games implement realistic clutch function. Nafi Coker >> Is it possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch? >Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus have >an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even >calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an on/off >switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent starts >without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have something. >Steve B.

I dorked around with the clutch one evening, doing 0-60-0 tests. It does indeed feel like a real clutch. There's a "sticky" point where it just grabs, exactly as in a real car. You need to ride it here until the road speed matches, and then you can drop the hammer and let the clutch all the way in. Drag-racers consider this an art form; I don't much about doing standing starts. At any rate, the lack of seat-o-pants feedback makes it more difficult to do, but it certainly is possible. I just traded up from a GP1 to an MS FF; the clutch is no longer an option, and I agree with you that it's hardly worth it. The paddle is just too far away to grab in time if you're swapping ends. Michael.

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> > Is it possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch? > Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus have > an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even > calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an on/off > switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent starts > without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have something. > Steve B.

The pedal/steering unit I build has a analog clutch pedal and I can say for sure that it can be used progressively. The car can be in 4th gear for example and just easing out the clutch pedal you are able to slip the clutch and get the car rolling with high engine rpm. GPL is difinitly not just a On/Off clutch. Starting off the grid with the clutch allows high engine rpms with the stationary car in gear. Nigel -- Redline Race Controls Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

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>I agree. From what I've read (also in the GPL book) that the clutch was not >meant to be a full function control but more or less a switch function. And >it seems that it was not used any differently in real life either -- just to >get going and prevent stalls during a spin. Either case it can be handled >with a button. >Still, it might give a more natural feel with a pedal and it would be ready >when the games implement realistic clutch function. >Nafi Coker

Well all the time I raced cars (Formula Ford, Formula Vauxhaul, et al) I only ever used the clutch on the start and did clutchless shifts both up and down (I left foot brake). In GPL what is nice is that you need to lift when you do shift up or you will snatch the next gear and lock the wheels causing a spin - even though I did clutchless upshifts, I always lifted to stop this happening and to to reduce stress through the transmission shafts. - Jed, The Pits

It is obvious that there are varied opinions about the clutch function in GPL. Although all seem to point to the fact that having an analog foot clutch will not necessarily provide an added advantage and that it is more a personal preference. It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about heel and toe braking/shifting? Nafi Coker

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>Well all the time I raced cars (Formula Ford, Formula Vauxhaul, et al) >I only ever used the clutch on the start and did clutchless shifts >both up and down (I left foot brake). >In GPL what is nice is that you need to lift when you do shift up or >you will snatch the next gear and lock the wheels causing a spin - >even though I did clutchless upshifts, I always lifted to stop this >happening and to to reduce stress through the transmission shafts. >- Jed, The Pits

> It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot > braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly > done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about heel > and toe braking/shifting? In Winston Cup racing I think the only 2 drivers that still use only 1 foot gas/braking is Earnhardt and Spencer. Bill / Amish on TEN

I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward. Is it as common in Road racing also? Nafi Zargana on TEN >> It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot >> braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly >> done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about heel >> and toe braking/shifting? >In Winston Cup racing I think the only 2 drivers that still use only 1 >foot gas/braking is Earnhardt and Spencer. >Bill / Amish on TEN

As for the clutch, I never meant it was literally a "switch", just that the engagement zone was too narrow for consistent results with my GP1 paddle. Perhaps a foot model with more travel would be better. And certainly it's only good for starting. And about left foot braking, I saw an interview with Alex Zanardi the other day about testing the Williams F1 car. He said he was going to have to learn how to do that, but that Jimmy Vasser, his teammate, had helped him, as he already drove that way. These days you never know. Apparently Villeneuve uses a hand operated clutch in his car, with both up & downshifts done by the right hand. weird. What next, joysticks? Steve B.

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> I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no > shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward. > Is it as common in Road racing also? > Nafi > Zargana on TEN

Ask Schletter, but I think most of the CART guys are left foot brakers as well. In WC, With the more antique style shifting, I would imagine the majority of guys would not be left foot braking. Bill / Amish on TEN

>I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no >shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward. >Is it as common in Road racing also? I'm no expert, but I recall seeing some viseos of rallying (esp pikes peak/Ari Vatanen and GroupB/Walter Ruhrl (sp?)) and their peadl dancing was spectacular! They used left foot AND right foot braking, depending on circumstance. Haven't seen such videos of road rcing tho... Ben

>I'm no expert, but I recall seeing some viseos of rallying (esp pikes >peak/Ari Vatanen and GroupB/Walter Ruhrl (sp?)) and their peadl dancing was >spectacular! They used left foot AND right foot braking, depending on >circumstance. Haven't seen such videos of road rcing tho... >Ben I recall Ricky Craven's footwork shown at Sears Point two years ago and he was doing plenty of foot dancing. Left/right foot braking and heel toe braking. Most impressive to watch. I had spent lots of time practising heel/toe braking while driving to work as I drive on back country roads most of the way. Since both our cars are 5 forward speed manuals I tend to "play" (carefully) while driving to work. Most rewarding to be under brakes as well as blipping the engine and clutching all at once. "Boys will be boys" -- Redline Race Controls Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

Wouldn't surprise me if most CART (and F1) drivers did left-foot braking - the semi-auto transmission means no foot-clutch, and the benefits of being able to keep the revs high during a corner are without question (especially for turbo cars like CART). We don't get a lot of WC / NASCAR coverage here in Australia - do the cars have a foot clutch? -- Andre Queree (Mr Q) If you need my real address for any legitimate purpose (NOT spam) ... queree (AT) fl (DOT) net (DOT) au >> I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no >> shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward. >> Is it as common in Road racing also? >> Nafi >> Zargana on TEN >Ask Schletter, but I think most of the CART guys are left foot brakers >as well. In WC, With the more antique style shifting, I would imagine >the majority of guys would not be left foot braking. >Bill / Amish on TEN

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> Wouldn't surprise me if most CART (and F1) drivers did left-foot > braking - > the semi-auto transmission means no foot-clutch, and the benefits of > being > able to keep the revs high during a corner are without question > (especially > for turbo cars like CART). > We don't get a lot of WC / NASCAR coverage here in Australia - do the > cars > have a foot clutch? > -- > Andre Queree (Mr Q) > If you need my real address for any legitimate purpose (NOT spam) ... > queree (AT) fl (DOT) net (DOT) au > >> I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much > no > >> shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward. > >> Is it as common in Road racing also? > >> Nafi > >> Zargana on TEN > >Ask Schletter, but I think most of the CART guys are left foot > brakers > >as well. In WC, With the more antique style shifting, I would > imagine > >the majority of guys would not be left foot braking. > >Bill / Amish on TEN

Hey, scandinavian topic!!Left foot braking was introduced in rallying by the Finish masters - to keep revs up and gain back some bite. This was done while the throttle was hard down, in turns. As for left-foot braking in other forms of racing, WC drivers use it for the same purpose, but it is really *** machinery. F1 have only two pedals - so it's just like driving a go-kart:) Elsewhere, most people still use their right foot for serious braking (heel-toe), like in cart, on downshifts. Cheers, Matt_K (left-footer in GPL)

Oh dear, usual crap. Try a clutch pedal with an "H" gearbox. You may change your mind. The clutch is beautifully coded into GPL. It was not so well done in GP2. >I agree. From what I've read (also in the GPL book) that the clutch was not >meant to be a full function control but more or less a switch function. And >it seems that it was not used any differently in real life either -- just to

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>get going and prevent stalls during a spin. Either case it can be handled >with a button. >Still, it might give a more natural feel with a pedal and it would be ready >when the games implement realistic clutch function. >Nafi Coker

On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:48:54 +1000, "Andre Queree (Mr Q)"

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>Wouldn't surprise me if most CART (and F1) drivers did left-foot braking - >the semi-auto transmission means no foot-clutch, and the benefits of being >able to keep the revs high during a corner are without question (especially >for turbo cars like CART). >We don't get a lot of WC / NASCAR coverage here in Australia - do the cars >have a foot clutch?

I heard something during the coverage of the Surfer's Paradise CART race relevant to this. It appears that the Williams F1 is setup for left foot braking and Alex Zanardi has asked for a version for him that allows right foot braking which is his prefered method. Peter Holt

The best in the world does, Schumacher (M. of course) is famous for "trail" braking.. heavily not only can you keep revs up it saves a bit of time even if you have REALLY fast feet i tend to switch a little , but 90+% of the time right foot brake, esp in real life