Opinion on GPL Support for Force Feedback

I have been testing MS' FF wheel for a few months now and I must say it is a great device for GPL. The wheel provides resistance, configurable through a control panel from none to heavy, which gives the driver a great sensation of contact with the road. I must say I question Papy's omission of support for this device. The reasons given for not implementing force feedback were certainly valid arguments. As of right now, there simply is no way to give the driver the feeling of over or understeer. Without these sensory inputs, the case can be made that there is no benefit to the sim enthusiast. However, MS' CPR, leaving its shortcomings aside, is a good example of what force feedback can do. The feeling of rumble strips, of entering a sand pit, and even collision with a wall all provide the driver with an extra dose of immersion. Immersion is an essential component of a convincing simulator. The overhead of adding FF effects can't be that large as CPR runs at the same framerate on my machine with or without FF enabled. So, if the above facts are true, then why not implement force feedback? In moving forward, I think we can all agree that Force Feedback will to at least some extent be a factor in future sims. My cause here is to suggest that we begin now with testing and further experimentation. The sooner we implement Force Feedback, the more we can learn and improve on this up-and-coming technology -/- Walk Walker

> The reasons given for not implementing force feedback were certainly valid > arguments. As of right now, there simply is no way to give the driver the > feeling of over or understeer. Without these sensory inputs, the case can be > made that there is no benefit to the sim enthusiast. However, MS' CPR, What is lacking in the MS FF wheel that makes it incapable of producing the same force effects that were present in the "Hard Driving" arcade sims? Are there no PC sims that even attempt to produce oversteer/understeer in their FF effects? -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

I will say that MS FF wheel is excellent. Also the TM NASCAR Pro. Also the Logitech as well as the AVB. ACT Labs works ok but seems to have drivers that do not always want to work. You might even try morphing your own setup together. Charles >> The reasons given for not implementing force feedback were certainly valid >> arguments. As of right now, there simply is no way to give the driver the >> feeling of over or understeer. Without these sensory inputs, the case can be

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>> made that there is no benefit to the sim enthusiast. However, MS' CPR, >What is lacking in the MS FF wheel that makes it incapable of >producing the same force effects that were present in the >"Hard Driving" arcade sims? Are there no PC sims that even >attempt to produce oversteer/understeer in their FF effects? >-- >Pat Dotson >IMPACT Motorsports >http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

I agree, FF will be a great asset to sims but not for the sensations of the effects of your mistakes (hitting rumble strips, guard rails, etc.) The increased steering force with increased speed due to gyro effect of the wheels will greatly improve driveability and stability when passing wheel to wheel at high speeds. Please Papy can you upgrade GPL for FF. Marty

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> I have been testing MS' FF wheel for a few months now and I must say > it is a > great device for GPL. The wheel provides resistance, configurable > through a > control panel from none to heavy, which gives the driver a great > sensation > of contact with the road. I must say I question Papy's omission of > support > for this device. > The reasons given for not implementing force feedback were certainly > valid > arguments. As of right now, there simply is no way to give the driver > the > feeling of over or understeer. Without these sensory inputs, the case > can be > made that there is no benefit to the sim enthusiast. However, MS' CPR, > leaving its shortcomings aside, is a good example of what force > feedback can > do. The feeling of rumble strips, of entering a sand pit, and even > collision > with a wall all provide the driver with an extra dose of immersion. > Immersion is an essential component of a convincing simulator. > The overhead of adding FF effects can't be that large as CPR runs at > the > same framerate on my machine with or without FF enabled. So, if the > above > facts are true, then why not implement force feedback? > In moving forward, I think we can all agree that Force Feedback will > to at > least some extent be a factor in future sims. My cause here is to > suggest > that we begin now with testing and further experimentation. The sooner > we > implement Force Feedback, the more we can learn and improve on this > up-and-coming technology > -/- Walk Walker

I couldn't agree more! Please Papy put FF into GPL. My Ultimate Per4mer FF wheel feels limp and useless without it! Should we start a campaign? Does Papy read this NG?

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>I agree, FF will be a great asset to sims but not for the sensations of >the effects of your mistakes (hitting rumble strips, guard rails, etc.) >The increased steering force with increased speed due to gyro effect of >the wheels will greatly improve driveability and stability when passing >wheel to wheel at high speeds. >Please Papy can you upgrade GPL for FF. >Marty >> I have been testing MS' FF wheel for a few months now and I must say >> it is a >> great device for GPL. The wheel provides resistance, configurable >> through a >> control panel from none to heavy, which gives the driver a great >> sensation >> of contact with the road. I must say I question Papy's omission of >> support >> for this device. >> The reasons given for not implementing force feedback were certainly >> valid >> arguments. As of right now, there simply is no way to give the driver >> the >> feeling of over or understeer. Without these sensory inputs, the case >> can be >> made that there is no benefit to the sim enthusiast. However, MS' CPR, >> leaving its shortcomings aside, is a good example of what force >> feedback can >> do. The feeling of rumble strips, of entering a sand pit, and even >> collision >> with a wall all provide the driver with an extra dose of immersion. >> Immersion is an essential component of a convincing simulator. >> The overhead of adding FF effects can't be that large as CPR runs at >> the >> same framerate on my machine with or without FF enabled. So, if the >> above >> facts are true, then why not implement force feedback? >> In moving forward, I think we can all agree that Force Feedback will >> to at >> least some extent be a factor in future sims. My cause here is to >> suggest >> that we begin now with testing and further experimentation. The sooner >> we >> implement Force Feedback, the more we can learn and improve on this >> up-and-coming technology >> -/- Walk Walker