What I hate about NFS3...

... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly done, it's utterly non-existent. Smash head on into another car at 150 MPH and ... you stop. Get bumped by a [cop] car from behind, however lightly, and you go into a wild, canned, fake spin-out. It's totally annoying, because it destroys the immersion value of the game every time there's any car contact. It's especially disappointing given the absolutely superb colision effects in the original NFS 1, a game that still out classes NFS 3 by a long shot (because of collisions, realistic physics/driving model, and better tracks). Other minor annoyances in the game ... - The super-glue attached to cop cars to make you stick to them at low speeds. A cheap trick to make up for deficient AI. - Several tracks are too dark too play at night, and the 2nd aquatica track is unplayable at any time. Where on earth do these idiot track designers get the idea that it's fun trying to drive in complete blackness? These last ones are just minor flaws, but I fear the horrendous collision model is going to rob this game of any longevity or replay value. So here we are going back to waiting yet another year for EA (or anyone else) to do an arcade driving game right. Now let's see, where did I stash that NFS 1 CD... Joe

> ... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly > done, it's utterly non-existent. Smash head on into another car at 150 > MPH and ... you stop. Get bumped by a [cop] car from behind, however > lightly, and you go into a wild, canned, fake spin-out. It _is_ possible to crash your car, it's really cool with fire and stuff.. It doesnt happen to often though. But NFS3 is not a simulator racing game it's an _arcade_ racer, keep that in mind. It would be even more annoying _if_ the game had real-life collision physics, I for instance would never have bought it. In Motohead(also a an arcade racer) for example it's not even possible to crash your car, it's nothing new that arcade racing games doesnt have real-life collision physics, it's not the way they are designed to played. If I play an arcade game I want _fast_ and fun gameplay which wouldnt have been possible with "better" collision physics. I don't consider crashing as fun(maybe once in a while as in NFS3, but no to often). That's the whole point with an arcade game; they're unrealistic, fast and fun unlike a simulator; realistic, slow, boring. -- Patrick

> ... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly > done, it's utterly non-existent. Smash head on into another car at 150 > MPH and ... you stop. Get bumped by a [cop] car from behind, however > lightly, and you go into a wild, canned, fake spin-out. Yeah. Irritating. Gorgeous graphics, though. I have a feeling that its going to end up in my "eye candy" bin with Forsaken. Looks great, less fulfilling. Its not just the collision physics, either. Even the AI cars can't stay on the road. I saw a VW Vanagon do a 25-foot jump off the peak of a hill. On corners, the AI cars drift and run into each other. When you run into an AI car, they just keep pushing at you. Just for kicks, I tried the GO01 Miata cheat. The stupid thing goes 0-60 in about 30 seconds, and then can't stay on the road! At 65mph, I was drifting off even gradual turns. I originally played NFS1 on the 3DO. Going 190 through the initial city traffic was awesome. Nothing in the NFS franchise since then has managed to duplicate that feeling. NFS3 is much better than NFS2, though. I hated the overly twisty roads and the lack of cops.. -Roger Roger Gonzalez Datapult Communications If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough brute force.

That depends on what mode you choose. -- "It says 'Spinach' on the outside, but we all know it's whoop-ass!" -Me, on Popeye "I don't think Rob has a problem getting laid at all personally. He looks like the kind of suave ass f***** that has no problem with it." -Saxon, on me http://come.to/amgd - the alt.music.green-day site snip snip

Why, why,why,why,why would EA change collision and contact and physics effects for this game. They may have allowed you to drive the track in the opposite direction. Gee, thats fun. I have NFS (original) and I have played it so religiously that all my times are so close (10ths of seconds) on all tracks. NO ONE,I MEAN NO ONE HAS PLAYED MORE THAN ME!!!!!!!!!! One reason I have not purchased NFS SE or II or III is because I'm so busy playing NFS. I have also been too busy to buy Test Drive, or Indy Racing games or any NASCAR crap, so my only experience has been NFS on PC and Grand Turismo on Sony Playstation. UPGRADE AND ENHANCE NEW GAMES, PLEASE. Don't *** up sequels or new releases. Dear Mr. EA, gather player input and satisfy your audience or shut up. Thats what games are for. I'm so stupidly frustrated about hearing how my favorite developer is not caring about us. -- Brad M. M. Winfield "Team LOLA I" "Happiness is the corner!" -BMsquaredW Remove "bee-emm-emm-uu-" to reply.

I agree. COOL game, the coolest on the market, BUT ... it still needs some fixes :)) May be if they have hired the right people to make it :)))) I mean real maniac players. Who knows. May be they've hired such people, but i don't think so. EA -> next time please, make a survey what people want and think of the demo and the fix the game , then release it. Regards.

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>> ... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly >> done, it's utterly non-existent. Smash head on into another car at 150 >> MPH and ... you stop. Get bumped by a [cop] car from behind, however >> lightly, and you go into a wild, canned, fake spin-out. >Yeah. Irritating. Gorgeous graphics, though. I have a feeling that >its going to end up in my "eye candy" bin with Forsaken. Looks great, >less fulfilling. >Its not just the collision physics, either. Even the AI cars can't >stay on the road. I saw a VW Vanagon do a 25-foot jump off the peak >of a hill. On corners, the AI cars drift and run into each other. >When you run into an AI car, they just keep pushing at you. >Just for kicks, I tried the GO01 Miata cheat. The stupid thing goes >0-60 in about 30 seconds, and then can't stay on the road! At 65mph, >I was drifting off even gradual turns. >I originally played NFS1 on the 3DO. Going 190 through the initial >city traffic was awesome. Nothing in the NFS franchise since then has >managed to duplicate that feeling. >NFS3 is much better than NFS2, though. I hated the overly twisty >roads and the lack of cops.. >-Roger >Roger Gonzalez Datapult Communications >If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough brute force.

>It would be even >more annoying _if_ the game had real-life collision physics, No it wouldn't. NFS 1 had it, and it was absolutely the best part of a superb game. Joe

>NFS3 is much better than NFS2, though. I hated the overly twisty >roads and the lack of cops.. Oh I agree, it's just no where near as good as NFS1, as you point out. Maybe by NFS 5 or 6 they will manage to create a game as fun as the original (but I doubt it). Joe

> >It would be even > >more annoying _if_ the game had real-life collision physics, > No it wouldn't. NFS 1 had it, and it was absolutely the best part of a > superb game. Yes, that's what you think because you don't like arcade style gameplay. I do and I'm quite certain that EA had arcade fantatics in thier mind when creating this game. I think crashing is annoying because it slows down gameplay. If I crashed each time I hit something in NFS3 then one track would take me 20 minutes.... ;-). -- Patrick

Try Viper Racing by Sierra! It has the most awesome collision physics model I've ever seen. I just dnloaded the demo from www.Avault.com You won't be disappointed. Try running into a tree, or drive off into a pond.

> That depends on what mode you choose. Nope. There is no "simulation" mode in NFS3. It's an arcade game, independently of what mode you choose. -- Patrick

>Yes, that's what you think because you don't like arcade style gameplay. Bzzt, wrong, thanks for playing! Joe

I was hoping someone would comment on the force feedback in this game. Is it any good?

Or just hit the wheelie button over and over agian... :-) Other than that, I dont see what point the wheelie button has, but it's fun!! :-) It does get a bit rediculous what you can do to you car :-) Brian

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> >... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly > >done, it's utterly non-existent. > Try Viper Racing by Sierra! It has the most awesome collision physics model > I've ever seen. I just dnloaded the demo from www.Avault.com > You won't be disappointed. Try running into a tree, or drive off into a > pond.

No such problems here. You using the 3.02 update? Geo -- George Mealer "Let your mind wander / It may never come back." -- Skyclad

> ... is the non-existent car collision physics. It's not just poorly > done, it's utterly non-existent. Smash head on into another car at 150 > MPH and ... you stop. Get bumped by a [cop] car from behind, however > lightly, and you go into a wild, canned, fake spin-out. Yeah, this kind of irritates me too. I get spun into walls pretty frequently from the slightest tap to my rear bumper. They do seem to have fudged the physics a little to encourage this sort of behavior. I have to agree with you here too. If you touch the rear bumper of a police car, it's a total pain in the ass to get off of it, especially at very low speeds. If I could figure out how to map a key to slam the car into reverse, it might be less of an issue, but when I find myself stuck to a police car's bumper, about half the time I get busted. It's kind of a cheap trick. I'd like to see them tone it down in a patch, perhaps. Ok, I ran across this one last night and it bugged the hell out of me. This track has some very nice atmospheric lighting and everything but, if you'll pardon my french, what ***in' good are my headlights if they won't illuminate the track just because I'm driving in "daytime"? I mean, seriously. I had to drive the track with all the lights turned off and my nose 4 inches away from my 20" trinitron just so I could see the faint hint of centerline striping in the dark areas. I managed to take 1st on the track in a beginner's knockout after driving it a few times and memorizing the track, but I certainly agree that driving in pitch black is no fun. Your headlights should definitely provide illumination. The first couple of times through the track, I hit things in the dark areas and found myself unable to determine what direction I was pointing or what I'd run into. This is something that REALLY needs to be addressed in some way because, frankly, it's a pretty fun track barring the areas where you can't see. Heh... I still go back and play NFS:SE when I want a fun racing game. You know, frankly, I'd be thrilled to see EA rerelease NFS:SE using the new NFS3 engine as long as they replicated the driving "feel" accurately. I desperately miss my Supra Turbo and my Ferrari 512 in NFS3. I'd love to see them made available as downloadable cars. But mostly, I wanna drive the Alpine and Pacific tracks using the new engine. I've gotta say though that after the departure that NFS2 took from the magical appeal that the original NFS inspired, NFS3 is certainly a step back in the right direction. Here's hoping that NFS4 can take us home again. I'll be waiting... -MikeC

I've got the MS force feedback joystick. It's totally unplayable. For some reason, whenever a force effect happens, the frame rate halves. It's ridiculous. -- Ewan "Bullseye" Fleming ICQ 6336582 http://www.gameznet.com/universe

>Or just hit the wheelie button over and over agian... :-) Other than that, I >dont see what point the wheelie button has, but it's fun!! :-) >It does get a bit rediculous what you can do to you car :-) I think the wheelie is for when you get stuck, like in the water

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:29:06 +0200, Patrick Andersson >Yes, that's what you think because you don't like arcade style gameplay. I >do and I'm quite certain that EA had arcade fantatics in thier mind when >creating this game. I think crashing is annoying because it slows down >gameplay. If I crashed each time I hit something in NFS3 then one track >would take me 20 minutes.... ;-). Personally, I think implementing NFS1-style crashes in NFS3 would make a messy lap faster. NFS1 had crash-flip-flip-bonk-smoke then back onto the road. NFS3's crashes are more smack-grind-grind-grind-reverse-forward-go. On average, the time it takes to recover from a hit is quicker in NFS1 than NFS3. Conversely, what good arcade game do you know did NOT include spectacular crashes? Decelerating from 120 to getting stuck on a bus's bumper is my idea of frustration, not fun. Martin Nigel Mansell RIP!

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> Promising game, but here are a few rants: > Gravity is lunar-like. You go over a bump, and you keep going, and > going, and going....This seems to be a problem with all games. Come on > people, you're not going to stay in the air for 4 seconds going over a > speedbump, in a *car*. You're gonna go 'bump' then 'oof' and then > 'THUD' rather quickly. 9.8m/s/s people.

True, and I was just amazed to see the correct weight of a car in the Colin McRae demo. This car jumps and drops to the floor...well, just like a heavy car. l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

That is a very strange sound effect. Not sure if its suppose to be a joke or its just in there on purpose. My bet is its in there cause its a demo and they didnt take the time to get the proper sound sample in the game yet. You do indeed have some points here if they are touting this game as a true sim; which they kinda do. The damage modeling is very nice. The gfx are decent. The grip can be changed for the better if you tweek in the garage a bit. I think if the sense of speed were high the car would be way to hard to control since everything would be going faster. That wheelie button is right up there with the 'sploosh' sound; very strange.

For NFS 4, all they have to do is copy the PlayStation's Gran Turismo, exactly. That game has everything right, although I would like to an option to enable car damage modeling (dents and such). The ability to build up your car (from a huge selection of new and used cars) is awesome. I don't think I have played any racing game more than Gran Turismo. That with 3dfx graphics would rock. says...

>Conversely, what good arcade game do you know did NOT include >spectacular crashes? As far as I remember, Sega Rally (and the sequel?). I personally want, not only "spectacular crashes", but also a damage model, ie. the car may become undrivable if you keep hitting other cars, walls etc. I just don't see the point in being able to hit everything at full speed intact. Such (unrealistic) arcade racing games like Stunts! and Whiplash had a damage model (your car may break down), and it still didn't make them unfun arcade racing games. .

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> On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:02:02 GMT, "Jeff Jones (remove)" > >>Or just hit the wheelie button over and over agian... :-) Other than that, > >I > >>dont see what point the wheelie button has, but it's fun!! :-) > >>It does get a bit rediculous what you can do to you car :-) > >I think the wheelie is for when you get stuck, like in the water > "Splooosshhhh......" > That is the STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD IN A GAME!! WTF were > they thinking?? "I know, let's make it so when you go into the water, > a guy whispers 'sploosh'!!!" What the hell?! > Promising game, but here are a few rants: > Gravity is lunar-like. You go over a bump, and you keep going, and > going, and going....This seems to be a problem with all games. Come on > people, you're not going to stay in the air for 4 seconds going over a > speedbump, in a *car*. You're gonna go 'bump' then 'oof' and then > 'THUD' rather quickly. 9.8m/s/s people.

A matter of taste... The low gravity is the thing that I liked best about SF Rush... -- ______ .~. Shrike /V\ L I N U X ______ // \\ >Phear the Penguin< /( )\ ^^-^^ 'It's going to look pretty good, then, isn't it,' said War, testily, 'the One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocralypse.' -Terry Pratchett, "Sourcery"

>Gravity is lunar-like. You go over a bump, and you keep going, and >going, and going....This seems to be a problem with all games. Come on >people, you're not going to stay in the air for 4 seconds going over a >speedbump, in a *car*. You're gonna go 'bump' then 'oof' and then >'THUD' rather quickly. 9.8m/s/s people. This is the most annoying thing about all arcade racers. Are these cars supposed to be made of balsa wood or what? Joe

>A matter of taste... The low gravity is the thing that I liked best >about SF Rush... If it's s matter of taste why not make it an option? Joe

ON of the driving assists is quick crash recovery. -- "It says 'Spinach' on the outside, but we all know it's whoop-ass!" -Me, on Popeye "I don't think Rob has a problem getting laid at all personally. He looks like the kind of suave ass f***** that has no problem with it." -Saxon, on me http://come.to/amgd - the alt.music.green-day site snip snip

No I'm not. Where can I get that?

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> > I've got the MS force feedback joystick. It's totally unplayable. For > > some reason, whenever a force effect happens, the frame rate halves. It's > > ridiculous. > No such problems here. You using the 3.02 update? > Geo > -- > George Mealer > "Let your mind wander / It may never come back." -- Skyclad

-- Ewan "Bullseye" Fleming ICQ 6336582 http://www.gameznet.com/universe

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> No I'm not. Where can I get that? > > > I've got the MS force feedback joystick. It's totally unplayable. For > > > some reason, whenever a force effect happens, the frame rate halves. It's > > > ridiculous. > > No such problems here. You using the 3.02 update? > > Geo > > -- > > George Mealer > > "Let your mind wander / It may never come back." -- Skyclad > -- > Ewan "Bullseye" Fleming > ICQ 6336582 > http://www.gameznet.com/universe

www.microsoft.com. Go to the SideWinder home page (it might be www.microsoft.com/sidewinder, if you want to try that first) and get the update. In particular, if you're still using v1.0, this will improve your experience muchly. Geo -- George Mealer "Let your mind wander / It may never come back." -- Skyclad

Hi, You just say what I desperate to read somewhere. Common sense says "the most recent sequel of a game is the best." Period. I disagree with that, and I agree with you. Found of car sim., I enjoy NFS I much more than NFS II. Using my Thrustmaster F 1 wheel and pedals, I have much more fun driving the Alpine full flat out on the Porsche, than finding my way in the NFS II Mystic track in a dramatically overpowered ( for such an exercise ! ) Mc Laren F1, even with 3Dfx accelerated graphics. Moreover, the choice of the cars in NFS II is highly questionable, focused more on Car Show dram concepts, and cars you never meet at the corner whoever hit an Isdera by red lights ??? ) than on exciting GT. and supercars. I consider NFS I as a fair simulation ( I admit graphically a bit outdated today ) and the sequels as pure arcade games. And arcade is not my cup of tea. I did not buy NFS III yet, and reading what I read here, maybe I will not buy it at all !! Joe a crit dans le message ...

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>>NFS3 is much better than NFS2, though. I hated the overly twisty >>roads and the lack of cops.. >Oh I agree, it's just no where near as good as NFS1, as you point out. >Maybe by NFS 5 or 6 they will manage to create a game as fun as the >original (but I doubt it). >Joe

[SNIP] [SNIP] Hmmm, one of the reasons I suggest you get a joystick or a steering wheel is that it's direction control is completely different from a gamepad. Does analogue feedback mean anything to you? The best realworld analogy is a piano and an electric keyboard. If you press a piano key lightly, you get a softer sound or you can slam that key down and you get a real loud sound. On a keyboard, it's just an on/off switch no matter how you hit that switch. So when you take a long curving bend in NFSIII, you are probably tapping your gamepad controller every second or so. With an analogue controller, you just move the stick a little and the car responds a little. Whereas on those 90 degree bends that stick is way over getting you maximum turn. Naturally, the gamepad has to set it's amount of turn in between full turn and gentle nudge otherwise gentle turns would be impossible to negotiate and hard turns would take forever. Anyway, game effect being you can't negotiate turns as well with a switch (the gamepad) as well as something that gives "progressive" feedback Joysticks and Steering wheels. Hence your power slides because by default, a gamepad can't do a gentle turn! It's lowest limit is the amount of time you have depressed the controller (which is then related to the spring on the system and it's switching system). Even if there was a configuration system, how would the system know you wanted a quck hard turn on the wheel or just a slow drift by just tweeking the wheel? Hope that clarifies things! Oriental Hero

But lots of electric keyboards have velocity and force sensitive keys which alter the music waveform. A better analogy would have been a trombone (slide to change notes) and a trumpet (valves to change notes). :)

Just to issue a correction: Not true. Any synth worth it's salt (or over $150-200US) will be velocity sensitive in the keys. They can detect how much pressure is being applied and adjust the intensity of the note appropriately :) Regarding NFS3, ANY racing game requires a good analog joystick for even decent control. It's just required, man. Don't expect good control from a gamepad. Although, first company to make an analog gamepad like the Playstation has gets my money. I played NFS3 with the analog pad on PSX and the control was amazing. Even better than the PCs with a joystick. -- smr

[cut] A couple of gamepads with analog controls already exist (maybe more)... The Gravis Exterminator (separated analogue thumbstick and Dpad) and the Thrustmaster Rage3D (switchable 2d/3d ball/thumbstick - you gotta see one to understand). I personally own the Rage3D, and am quite happy with it. I tried out the Exterminator at a store recently, but while I do like the extra throttle control, I didnt like the placement of the Dpad - it's too damn low! The thumbstick was great though (it looks like the gamepad was designed for the thumbstick and the Dpad was just thrown in.. similar to the N64 pad). AcezE -- Shahir Al Rashid a.k.a "AcezE" /D.I\ newton's circus, anime, 3D art kinou / ashita |C.Y| quiddity awaits iru \S.F/ all