GPL and hardware reqs

Hi All, I downloaded the original GPL demo as soon as it came out but I found that running it well on my system was something of an impossibility. I could only get a decent frame rate by turning off virtually all the textures and setting it to minimum resolution. Since I'm running an MMX P200 with 32mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique graphics card, I'm left wondering what sort of systems you guys are running? And is the new version easier on hardware? Also, I can't really acommodate a Voodoo graphics card so do you think an upgrade to 64mb RAM would be the next best thing? I'd be really grateful if people could help me out on this. Happy Racing, Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ ICQ# 11257824 "DC says Michael needs professional help. I couldn't agree more" - Nigel Roebuck

The GPL Watkins Glen demo ran fine for me in 640x480 on a Pentium MMX 166 running at 208, with a Voodoo 1 card and 64 MB. If the reason you can't accomodate a Voodoo card is lack of a free PCI slot, you could consider replacing your old Mystique with a newer 2D/3D card. (There are several contenders out there, and you need to read comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video and some *** / hardware web sites to get a good feel for their relative strengths and weaknesses.) If it's cost, you can get a new off-brand Voodoo 1 card for about $50 (check www.pricewatch.com), and I presume used ones are even less. -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.

You really need a 3dfx card to run GPL. I have a P200 with 96mb RAM and a Voodoo2 card. I could have wished a faster CPU, but the Voodoo card does all the difference. I don't think upgrading the RAM will help much for speed in GPL apart from saving more replay laps, but upgrading to 64 (or 96) will make you system quicker as disk swapping will be minimised. Don't bother buying GPL until you have a 3dfx card. -- >Hi All, >I downloaded the original GPL demo as soon as it came out but I found >that running it well on my system was something of an impossibility. I >could only get a decent frame rate by turning off virtually all the >textures and setting it to minimum resolution. >Since I'm running an MMX P200 with 32mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique >graphics card, I'm left wondering what sort of systems you guys are >running? And is the new version easier on hardware? >Also, I can't really acommodate a Voodoo graphics card so do you think >an upgrade to 64mb RAM would be the next best thing? >I'd be really grateful if people could help me out on this. >Happy Racing, >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ >ICQ# 11257824 >"DC says Michael needs professional help. I couldn't agree more" - Nigel Roebuck

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> You really need a 3dfx card to run GPL. I have a P200 with 96mb RAM and a > Voodoo2 card. I could have wished a faster CPU, but the Voodoo card does all > the difference. > I don't think upgrading the RAM will help much for speed in GPL apart from > saving more replay laps, but upgrading to 64 (or 96) will make you system > quicker as disk swapping will be minimised. > Don't bother buying GPL until you have a 3dfx card.

...or a Rendition card... Runs just as nicely on my V-Raptor(Rendition 2200) as it does on my Voodoo2. Trips

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>Hi All, >I downloaded the original GPL demo as soon as it came out but I found >that running it well on my system was something of an impossibility. I >could only get a decent frame rate by turning off virtually all the >textures and setting it to minimum resolution. >Since I'm running an MMX P200 with 32mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique >graphics card, I'm left wondering what sort of systems you guys are >running? And is the new version easier on hardware? >Also, I can't really acommodate a Voodoo graphics card so do you think >an upgrade to 64mb RAM would be the next best thing?

No. A Diamond Stealth II (Rendition) would be the next best thing. BTW Check Alison's site for more hardware information at http://alison.hine.net/sims Remco

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:49:45 +0100, Graeme Nash

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>Hi All, >I downloaded the original GPL demo as soon as it came out but I found >that running it well on my system was something of an impossibility. I >could only get a decent frame rate by turning off virtually all the >textures and setting it to minimum resolution. >Since I'm running an MMX P200 with 32mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique >graphics card, I'm left wondering what sort of systems you guys are >running? And is the new version easier on hardware? >Also, I can't really acommodate a Voodoo graphics card so do you think >an upgrade to 64mb RAM would be the next best thing? >I'd be really grateful if people could help me out on this. >Happy Racing, >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ >ICQ# 11257824 >"DC says Michael needs professional help. I couldn't agree more" - Nigel Roebuck

I run a P200,64m ram, VD1. AT 8x600 everything full, it runs fine. Well at least for my likings :) Proablaly about 20-25fps, dunno how to measure it accuratly. GL Juju

Thanks Everyone! -- Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ "The forward velocity of my racing automobile became interrupted" - Brett Lunger

Nope, a Hercules Thriller 3D (V2200 instead of V2100). Cheers! John

>>No. A Diamond Stealth II (Rendition) would be the next best thing. >Nope, a Hercules Thriller 3D (V2200 instead of V2100). Yes, but aren't they a lot more expensive? The original poster has a tight budget. Remco

Depends on your definition of 'a lot', but the original poster never really mentions his budget anyway. He only says he can't accommodate a Voodoo card, perhaps its the cost, but it could also be the lack of a free PCI slot. Assuming he just wants to replace his primary 2D/3D card, for GPL the 8MB Thriller3D will be well worth the extra money over the 4MB StealthII. Eric

System = PII-450 o/c 504, 256Mb, Voodoo2 SLI, bought mainly for GPL (Nordschleife here I come.. <g>). Runs like a dream with fiddling about in Win98. Generally More Ram = better replay storage. Probably not much better overall game performance. Voodoo or Rendition = world of difference (try and accommodate one if at all possible). This reply is actually just a good excuse to say thanks for loads of decent GP2 tracks! Pete Tabram

Hi again, OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive GPL "for real". To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox Mystique graphics card. Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I have heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a PII. But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. I'm really confused! -- Being appreciative in advance, Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ ICQ# 11257824 "I thought I saw someone I knew in the crowd, so I went over to say Hi" - Schuey

For GPL? The Hercules Thriller 3D. Cheers! Marc

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> Hi again, > OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now > and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive GPL > "for real". > To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox > Mystique graphics card. > Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I have > heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a PII. > But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. > I'm really confused! > -- > Being appreciative in advance, > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ > ICQ# 11257824 > "I thought I saw someone I knew in the crowd, so I went over to say Hi" - Schuey

-- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

>Hi again, >OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now >and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive GPL >"for real". In that case, I stand corrected, and would consider the option adviced by Eric. Remco

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:46:27 +0100, Graeme Nash >To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox >Mystique graphics card. >Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I have >heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a PII. >But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. My two cents worth.... I have both Voodoo2 and Hercules Thriller 3D (Rendition V2200). In both my old P225MMX and my new Celeron 300 the Rendition card is noticably faster - very significantly faster if there are a lot of AI around (such as in the pits). If you are only interested in GPL then the Rendition is by far the best choice, the V2200 is definitely preferred over the V1000 or the V2100. If you play other games that use 3D then you need to weigh up how important is good support for GPL, and consider Rendition v's 3dFX in other games you enjoy. Cheers! John

Rendition is better for GPL. Rendition cards are also cheaper. Or a Rendition. Cheers! John

You would probably be most happy with a V2200 chip rendition card. I have the Hercules Thriller 3d 8mb pci card, and it rocks for me. My system is a 233 mmx system. I have a voodoo1 card also, and will probably add voodoo2 sometime down the pike, to have the best of both. -- Don Burnette Palmetto Racing Dburn on Ten AOLL Iroc Series Administrator http://pages.southtech.net/palmetto/aoll.htm >Hi again, >OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now >and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive GPL >"for real". >To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox >Mystique graphics card. >Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I have >heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a PII. >But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. >I'm really confused! >-- >Being appreciative in advance, >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ >ICQ# 11257824 >"I thought I saw someone I knew in the crowd, so I went over to say Hi" - Schuey

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> Hi again, > OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now > and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive > GPL > "for real". > To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox > Mystique graphics card. > Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I

have > heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a > PII. > But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. > I'm really confused! Get a 3Dfx Voodoo1 card and another 32Mb RAM and overclock your 3Dfx card (try 55) and your cpu & buspeed, (try 3 x 75 = 225). The Canopus 3D has 6MB instead of the usual 4Mb. You will see no improvement from a Voodoo2 over a Voodoo1 unless you have a Pentium II. (NB: do *NOT* get a Voodoo *RUSH* card, they are ***(compared to a normal 3Dfx). 8-) *Peter* 8-) (NB: remove asterix to e-mail)

Hi, Well, thanks for all the replies and I've given it some thought and realised that if it weren't for GPL I wouldn't be getting a 3d card. Hence GPL is my main reason, and hence I will probably be getting a Hercules Thriller..... I may need voodoo technology if GP3 -ever- appears, but that's a while off.... -- So once again, thanks to everyone for their help and I hope to be racing you all when GPL comes out in full...! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gp2/ ICQ# 11257824 "Look at me, look at my sponsors. Love me, love my sponsors" - Any F1 Driver

On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:46:27 +0100, Graeme Nash

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>Hi again, >OK, let me clarify my earlier message as things have swung around now >and I have the money (200) to get a 3D adapter so that I can drive GPL >"for real". >To recap, I have an MMX Pentium 200 with 32mb RAM and a 2mb Matrox >Mystique graphics card. >Could anyone give me advice on what is the best 3D card to get? I have >heard that a rendition is better than a voodoo 2 as I don't have a PII. >But then I've heard that a voodoo 2 is just better. >I'm really confused!

I noticed you're from the UK. You might like to look at ww.dabs.com. Techworks Voodoo1 for 39+vat and Voodoo2 (12M) for 99+vat. I think they also have the Diamond Steath for 35+vat if you want rendition cheap. FWIW, I was in a very similar situation (system wise and money wise!) and went for a voodoo1 (for glide support in other games) plus an extra 32MB RAM. I'm still tempted by a Thriller 3d but can't really justify it for just one game :-( BTW. Does your 200 have to include the wheel you *need* for GPL. (If so, try the TM GP1. Not perfect but very good value!) Toby -- Remove NOSPAM from address if replying by email.

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:14:56 +1000, Bruce Kennewell

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>Interesting..... >I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of L2 >cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than the >Stealth. >The Rendition version seems "sugary".....now, I know that's not a tech >term, but it appears grainy....as if sprinkled with tiny tiny crystals >that somehow 'sparkle". >The V2 picture is softer yet clearer and is far easier on the eye. Not >just my opnion but also my sons.

Since starting with GPL I've owned,at various times, Creative Labs 3D Blaster (Rendition V1000), Intergraph Reactor (Rendition V1000), Orchid Righteous 3D (Voodoo 1), Diamond Stealth S220 (V2100), Diamond Monster 3D2 (Voodoo 2) and Hercules Thriller 3D (V2200 Rendition). Quite a list :-) I've "only" got the last two now (amd no, my girlfriend thinks I had the same video card all the time...!). Of all of the above the Herc Thriller is markedly better in frame-rate than any other card, although I personally don't see a huge difference in image quality. That may be because my monitor is old, crappy and lacking in vibrant colour, and perhaps also because I use a fresnel lens to get huge visuals. The Stealth S220 was a bit of a let-down for me, since it offered essentially the same performance as the V2. The Thriller is a step up from that, and a noticable improvement (esp 8Mb). My eyes are getting old and tired though, so the visuals problably don't matter to me as much as frame-rate :-( The "smoother" look of the 3DFX is a 3dFX thing, the way it blends compared to other cards. I actually prefer to have less blending, since upcoming objects come into view more sharply and earlier. Cheers! John

It would be a bit slower overall with more texture thrashing due to the lesser amount of RAM on the card. - Eric

Interesting..... I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of L2 cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than the Stealth. The Rendition version seems "sugary".....now, I know that's not a tech term, but it appears grainy....as if sprinkled with tiny tiny crystals that somehow 'sparkle". The V2 picture is softer yet clearer and is far easier on the eye. Not just my opnion but also my sons.

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> >You really need a 3dfx card to run GPL. > Rendition is better for GPL. Rendition cards are also cheaper. > >Don't bother buying GPL until you have a 3dfx card. > Or a Rendition. > Cheers! > John

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Funny you should mention that Bruce, i have just upgraded my computer to include a Stealth II for my main video card and also bought a Monster 3d Voodoo 1 card for 3dfx applications. I expected the rendition based card to look better than the 3dfx card, based on what i had previously read on this news group, but for me, the 3dfx card seems to be the better of the two as far as picture quality goes. I have read a lot on this news group about, "the washed out effect", but a simple understanding of what gamma correction is, and what it is used for, can alleviate that effect totally.... Maybe it is just our computers Bruce, but i can only report on the facts as i see them on, "MY" computer, and the facts are that the Voodoo card is graphically superior on my computer compared to the rendition based card. Cheers, Ron

I'm just wondering what difference the 8mb in the Hercules makes? Does it just allow you to run at a higher resolution? If I was prepared to run GPL at 640x480 instead of 800x600 would the 4mb Stealth compare to the Hercules in frame rates? cheers, Rob Yates says...

wrote... I've got a 12MB Voodoo2 with a P2-400 512K L2 cache. Looking forward to seeing what kind of frame rate I get at 800x600 with everything turned on. I'm just a little concerned about replay's, though. I only have 64MB of RAM, and with everything turned on I think I'll be lucky to get a lap recorded (if it's anything like the demo). Hope Sierra works it out so that's not the case. Seems like that would be a waste of that beautiful replay UI. Devon

Gooday Ron. Good to see you back in town. Doing any more IEC stuff?

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> Funny you should mention that Bruce, i have just upgraded my computer > to include a Stealth II for my main video card and also bought a > Monster 3d Voodoo 1 card for 3dfx applications. > I expected the rendition based card to look better than the 3dfx card, > based on what i had previously read on this news group, but for me, the > 3dfx card seems to be the better of the two as far as picture quality > goes. > I have read a lot on this news group about, "the washed out effect", > but a simple understanding of what gamma correction is, and what it is > used for, can alleviate that effect totally.... > Maybe it is just our computers Bruce, but i can only report on the > facts as i see them on, "MY" computer, and the facts are that the > Voodoo card is graphically superior on my computer compared to the > rendition based card. > Cheers, > Ron > > Interesting..... > > I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of > L2 > > cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than > the > > Stealth. > > The Rendition version seems "sugary".....now, I know that's not a > tech > > term, but it appears grainy....as if sprinkled with tiny tiny > crystals > > that somehow 'sparkle". > > The V2 picture is softer yet clearer and is far easier on the eye. > Not > > just my opnion but also my sons.

There you go then Ron. (John....you reading this?!) Exactly my feelings.....my preference is for the image produced by the V2 card, not that produced by the Stealth. I also have adjusted the gamma to suit my personal tastes but the picture quality itself is, to my eyes, preferable even with default gamma settings. > Funny you should mention that Bruce, i have just upgraded my computer > to include a Stealth II for my main video card and also bought a > Monster 3d Voodoo 1 card for 3dfx applications. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:24:49 +1000, Bruce Kennewell >There you go then Ron. (John....you reading this?!) Aber naturlich.... (I'll see if my German grammar is more pleasing to the ear..!). Adjusting the gamma on the V1 and V2 definitely helps - I think I settled on 1.2 for all three bars as the best level, and this is equivalent to the Stealth. The Thriller _is_reported_ to give better colours and overall look, but this hasn't been my experience, I found it looked identical. What I did find though was that the frame-rate was a big step up from the V2 and the Stealth, although a Celeron may not have the "oomph" to feed a Voodoo2 (the CPU may be the bottleneck rather than the card). I think that's down to taste. For example I always preferred VQuake to GLQuake, since the GLQuake looked a little blurry whereas VQuake looked sharper but less "pretty". Most others I find look nicer on the Voodoo. For GPL there's not too much in it for me regarding looks, but I like the frame-rate of the Thriller. OTOH there's no way I would have the Thriller if I had to choose between my V2 and my Thriller, I'd far rather have the overall looks and support provided by 3dFX. Cheers! John

I have the exactly the same experiences with my Righteous 3D Voodoo 1 and Stealth II. The Rendition is more grainy as if the anti-aliasing is working better at the Voodoo 1 card. Reading this thread I'm beginning to contemplating changing the Stealth II for the Thriller 3D... /Christer, not made of money... and this sport (sim racing) isn't improving things :o)

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> Funny you should mention that Bruce, i have just upgraded my computer > to include a Stealth II for my main video card and also bought a > Monster 3d Voodoo 1 card for 3dfx applications. > I expected the rendition based card to look better than the 3dfx card, > based on what i had previously read on this news group, but for me, the > 3dfx card seems to be the better of the two as far as picture quality > goes. > I have read a lot on this news group about, "the washed out effect", > but a simple understanding of what gamma correction is, and what it is > used for, can alleviate that effect totally.... > Maybe it is just our computers Bruce, but i can only report on the > facts as i see them on, "MY" computer, and the facts are that the > Voodoo card is graphically superior on my computer compared to the > rendition based card. > Cheers, > Ron > > Interesting..... > > I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of > L2 > > cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than > the > > Stealth. > > The Rendition version seems "sugary".....now, I know that's not a > tech > > term, but it appears grainy....as if sprinkled with tiny tiny > crystals > > that somehow 'sparkle". > > The V2 picture is softer yet clearer and is far easier on the eye. > Not > > just my opnion but also my sons.

-- http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o))

IMO the texture anti-aliasing (more commonly referred to as bilinear filtering) on the 3Dfx cards works a bit too well resulting in washed out, over filtered textures. It's more noticeable in the OpenGL ports like Quake and Quake2, but the same holds true for all 3Dfx titles. The situation has been somewhat improved with the Voodoo2, but again IMO it's still not as good as the Rendition cards. - Eric

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:49:45 +0100, Graeme Nash >Since I'm running an MMX P200 with 32mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique >graphics card, I'm left wondering what sort of systems you guys are >running? And is the new version easier on hardware? The box doesn't say it, but this sim truly requires the proper 3D card just as much as the right processor. About 50% load on each, I'd say. You must have a 3dfx card, like Monster 3D- or you can use a rendition card like the stealth2, which might be best for you since your processor is just over the minimum. Unfortunately, your card will do nothing for GPL (unless it has a rendition or 3dfx chip inside). Hopefully one day they'll do a port to something all cards can handle- d3d or oGL. Your memory isn't the problem. It is shocking how much this sim requires the right d3d chip- without it, you simply don't get the experience. Not only in the frame rate about 1/3rd of what it should be, but the objects all look clunky and etc. This sim is definitely worth upgrading for. All you really need is the voodoo card, I'd say.

>wrote... >> I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of L2 >> cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than the >> Stealth. Manual suggests it likes Rendition better than 3dfx- but then, maybe that is just Papyrus hoping to sell some rendition boards! With 15 cars, probably about 34 Fps with *everything* on. At the start of a race, 20 Fps. Maybe a lap, but no more I think.

Alison Hine said that on 128 megs she could have her entire race saved so I gues 64 would be enough for more than just a lap! Borut

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>>wrote... >>> I have both a Stealth II 4Mb and a Voodoo2 8Mb in a PII-266, 512K of L2 >>> cache and I prefer the picture quality and colours from the V2 than the >>> Stealth. >Manual suggests it likes Rendition better than 3dfx- but then, maybe >that is just Papyrus hoping to sell some rendition boards! >>I've got a 12MB Voodoo2 with a P2-400 512K L2 cache. Looking forward to >>seeing what kind of frame rate I get at 800x600 with everything turned >>on. >With 15 cars, probably about 34 Fps with *everything* on. At the start >of a race, 20 Fps. >>I'm just a little concerned about replay's, though. I only have 64MB of >>RAM, and with everything turned on I think I'll be lucky to get a lap >>recorded (if it's anything like the demo). Hope Sierra works it out so >>that's not the case. Seems like that would be a waste of that beautiful >>replay UI. >Maybe a lap, but no more I think.