More on Sierra/Papyrus Woes...

[link lost in import] (you may have to scroll down a bit as this guy updates a lot...) And before the Sierra/papyrus-are-wonderful people strike back, let me add, i am in a position to know a member of Sierra/Cendant who did recently leave the company naming the reasons that are show in the above piece. Whatever is going on there, it is pissing off a lot of people, and they are jumping ship. Whether this will effect the actual finsihed product or not is debateable. Certainly Morale is low. Z.

Well, whoopdy-doo, Zonk! Welcome to the REAL world of big business, mate! Morale is low *EVERYWHERE*....not just at Sierra/Papyrus! > Whatever is going > on there, it is pissing off a lot of people, and they are jumping ship. > Whether this will effect the actual finsihed product or not is debateable. > Certainly Morale is low. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

>Well, whoopdy-doo, Zonk! >Welcome to the REAL world of big business, mate! Morale is low >*EVERYWHERE*....not just at Sierra/Papyrus! Sounds like you've been working for the wrong employers for a long time then, Bruce. It's certainly not low around here, and the person who has moved has found happniess and never level of transcendtal thought for another Software Co. Z.

> It's certainly not low around here, and the person who has moved has found > happniess and never level of transcendtal thought for another Software Co. Good on you, Z. But don't count on that for ever. I was happy as a programmer where I work but a takeover, one but bad quarter, new management and suddenly you feel like yesterday's man. :-( Paul

> [link lost in import] I see that Yellow Journalism is alive and well... Sorry...after 2-1/2 years since the Sierra/CUC buyout, I see nothing unusual about the turnover rate at Papyrus. The people who left were high-profile, and as such we remember when one leaves more so than if they were simply a tech-support or graphic artist type. It won't. No company should be so reliant on a single individual as to worry about the future of the company (or product) if that person leaves. I doubt that Sierra would risk so many 'eggs' in a single basket. From what I've seen of the few posts by 'current' Papy people, m*** appeared to be just fine, but then I never asked directly. I assume from your statement, however, that someone from the company called or wrote *you* saying that "m***is low?" I think not, Dr. Cheers! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

>> Certainly Morale is low. >From what I've seen of the few posts by 'current' Papy people, m*** >appeared to be just fine, but then I never asked directly. I assume >from your statement, however, that someone from the company called or >wrote *you* saying that "m***is low?" I think not, Dr. I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra. Perhaps you should re-read the previous post. Z.

I would be more interested in the opinions of somebody who is STILL EMPLOYED! :o) > I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

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>I would be more interested in the opinions of somebody who is STILL >EMPLOYED! :o) >> I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra.

Bruce, I cannot mention his name or postion for obivous reaosns, but he was in a highly important role reagrding sale and promotion of a division of Sierra products. He resigned of his own free will from Sierra, sick of the company and the way it was treating it's employees, and now has taken up employment with another major publisher in a similar role. Z. (this is recent- he left around 3-4 weeks back.)

Fine, Zonk, but I could fill a book with tales of disgruntled employees venting their collective spleens about how rotten "the Company" is and/or how badly they've been treated. I would, as I said, be more inclined to accept the feelings of somebody who is still an employee...preferably someone at a similar level and who has been there a reasonable length of time.....or at least as long as this friend of yours. That way the opinions usually become balanced!

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> >I would be more interested in the opinions of somebody who is STILL > >EMPLOYED! :o) > >> I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra. > Bruce, > I cannot mention his name or postion for obivous reaosns, but he was in a > highly important role reagrding sale and promotion of a division of Sierra > products. He resigned of his own free will from Sierra, sick of the company > and the way it was treating it's employees, and now has taken up employment > with another major publisher in a similar role. > Z. > (this is recent- he left around 3-4 weeks back.)

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

: I would be more interested in the opinions of somebody who is STILL : EMPLOYED! :o) Exactly the point I was trying to make it the other Sierra thread. :)

> I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra. > Perhaps you should re-read the previous post. Eh?...Perhaps YOU should 're-read' your own...You mentioned "the actual finished product" and "m***is low" in the same paragraph. What is "the" unfinished product you speak of...anything to do with GPL? If so, you're ~implying~ that 'm***is low at Papyrus, and this will have an impact on the release of GPL'...why do you feel the m***factor at one company have an effect on the product of another? If this had nothing to do with GPL, then it's an "off topic" post, in which case makes you a hypocrite (re: The CART accident thread). Get a clue. -- Marc J. Nelson The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

I am still employed and it is my professional opinion the GPL will rip like mad. -- mark Remove us here and there to mail me. >I would be more interested in the opinions of somebody who is STILL >EMPLOYED! :o) >> I mentioned my own experience with a friend who was an ex-employee of Sierra. >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >---------- >The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- >http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Thanks Mark. How long have you been with Papyrus and will you be doing GP3 for them? > I am still employed and it is my professional opinion the GPL will rip like > mad. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Well I know several key people from Sierra UK who have "jumped ship" following extremely bizarre requests made of them in their new contracts. Far from this being a Cendant problem, the rot appears to have set in around the time of the CUC takeover when the base of operations switched from the States to Paris, France. Since then, key people have been leaving in droves, not just from Sierra but from Blizzard (10 people walked out) and Papyrus as well. A lot of this may be down to the alledged improprieties of the parent company in it's financial details but that's really just speculation. Regardless of what Cendant have done/are doing, Sierra should be doing it's best to do what is best for itself and its employees but appears to be dropping the ball. I may not know anyone at Papyrus but I know from experience that when key members of a team leave, it is often hard to maintain the balance. That said, I have played GPL (press preview) and it IS the best racing sim I have played for some time. M

Well, therein sits the answer.....FRANCE!!! Then kew so much, meiji, for that little tid-bit. -- Regards, Bruce.

What's the feeling around here then about Nascar 3? Is Papyrus disbanding or is another group comming in to do N3? Any thoughts? BH

You can't tell who's more right a current employee or an ex employee. I left my last job on my own. They are stupid mf's. It wouldn't hide the fact if a current employee likes em maybe their blowing the corporate Joe. I knew the company from A to Z and their not a very smart bunch, more lucky that their past generations left them a company with decent contacts that have all but dried up due to them not adjusting accordingly.

Well as I have a strong affinity with France I'd hesitate to say that. I think they have too much happening and bosses at Sierra are too busy pleasing a succession of new bosses and less keen on keeping their staff happy. M

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>Well, therein sits the answer.....FRANCE!!! >Then kew so much, meiji, for that little tid-bit. >> the rot appears to >> have set in around the time of the CUC takeover when the base of >> operations switched from the States to Paris, France.

Yeah, well, I guess that since they never used the English Channel as the site for their nuclear tests you folks *may* have an affinity with them. The distance that we have from here to there is close enough *affinity* for me! :o) > Well as I have a strong affinity with France I'd hesitate to say that. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

LOL. I guess you don't like frogs aye Bruce?

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> Yeah, well, I guess that since they never used the English Channel as > the site for their nuclear tests you folks *may* have an affinity with > them. > The distance that we have from here to there is close enough *affinity* > for me! :o) > > Well as I have a strong affinity with France I'd hesitate to say that. > -- > Regards, > Bruce. > ---------- > The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- > http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Byron Forbes wrote :'-( - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Frogs I like. It's the French who puzzle me. :o) > LOL. I guess you don't like frogs aye Bruce? -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/