RASCAR: Atlanta

Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... Am I to assume that we are back on track (no pun intended), and FAST will always be the setup as it was last year for normal races ? -Larry

>Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the >league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... Anybody else find the <fast> setup extremely loose? Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > >Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the > >league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... > > Anybody else find the <fast> setup extremely loose? > > Eldred Nope.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Tyb4c.54691$TT5.45501@lakeread06...

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> Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the > league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... > > Am I to assume that we are back on track (no pun intended), and FAST will > always be the setup as it was last year for normal races ? > > -Larry > >

I hope not. I've been practicing with the expert. I'm assuming we're going back to expert and the use of fast was just for Vegas. We decided to use expert at the beginning of the season and only used the fast at Vegas because of the expert setup being too loose. bluestringer

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Anybody else find the <fast> setup extremely loose? > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

No ... :-( You just suck ... :-( TG .... :-( P.S. ... :-( Woa is me ... :-( dot dot dot unhappyface army

> Anybody else find the <fast> setup extremely loose? >The Jasper setup I find loose, the fast one pushes if anything. I get about 20 laps out of the rf and still I can barely get into the high 29's.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the > >league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... > > Anybody else find the <fast> setup extremely loose? > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

I think you mean the expert is loose, it can get a little squirrley at times. The fast gets really tight after a few laps. bluestringer

I was never under the impression that the Expert setup had become the standard. My understanding that was only during the Off-Season. I really don't care which it is, but we need to get on track and decide what our standard is and stop all this confusion. -Larry "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rwq4c.29490$[email hidden]...

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> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Tyb4c.54691$TT5.45501@lakeread06... > > Well, I haven't seen posted otherwise, so I assume we are using the > > league-standard FAST setup for saturdays race... > > > > Am I to assume that we are back on track (no pun intended), and FAST

will

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> > always be the setup as it was last year for normal races ? > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > I hope not. I've been practicing with the expert. I'm assuming we're going > back to expert and the use of fast was just for Vegas. We decided to use > expert at the beginning of the season and only used the fast at Vegas > because of the expert setup being too loose. > > bluestringer > >

In article <B%r4c.81428$[email hidden]>, "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> writes: >I think you mean the expert is loose, it can get a little squirrley at >times. The fast gets really tight after a few laps. Nope, I meant the fast setup. I ran practice laps with it, and I ran in another league that used it. For me, it's loose, and I have to constantly fight the thing from swapping ends. I haven't run the expert setup yet. If that's even *looser*, I'm not looking forward to it... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

In article <Ybr4c.16694$[email hidden]>, "Trent Grepman" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>No ... :-( You just suck ... :-( > >TG .... :-( > >P.S. ... :-( Woa is me ... :-( > >dot dot dot unhappyface army >

WTF? Some kiddie get loose on the family computer again...? Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > Nope, I meant the fast setup. I ran practice laps with > it, and I ran in another league that used it. For me, > it's loose, and I have to constantly fight the thing > from swapping ends. I haven't run the expert setup yet. If > that's even *looser*, I'm not looking forward to it... It's about carrying momentum into the turn, Eldred. If you back it off too far it gets squirrely. The expert setup does start off loose, but it does comes in and it pays you back after about 35-40 laps (any bets on how much green running we'll do?). That said, I find it to be just "over center" too. For open setup racing I reduce the LF rebound one click and that levels it for me. If you really find it unworkable, you can try staying at nearly full throttle and using the brake to slow down enough or locking up the left front a couple times on purpose (the extra wear won't hurt your ability to do a fuel run and it serves to tighten the car up). Jan. =---

"EldredP" wrote...

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> "Trent Grepman" writes: > > No ... :-( You just suck ... :-( > > <snip> > > > WTF? Some kiddie get loose on the family computer > again...?

Do not feed the.... Jan. ;-) =--- PS.: besides, you're officially "reasonably good", so relax. <vbg>

>Nope, I meant the fast setup. I ran practice laps with it, and I ran in >another league that used it. For me, it's loose, and I have to constantly >fight the thing from swapping ends. I haven't run the expert setup yet. If >that's even *looser*, I'm not looking forward to it...Eldred That was the expert setup in the Thursday night race Eldred. At least it was supposed to be :) Dan

In article <UkH4c.33272$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >It's about carrying momentum into the turn, Eldred. If you back it off too >far it gets squirrely. The expert setup does start off loose, but it does >comes in and it pays you back after about 35-40 laps (any bets on how much >green running we'll do?). No bets, Jan.<g> Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bamadano) writes:

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>>Nope, I meant the fast setup. I ran practice laps with it, and I ran in >>another league that used it. For me, it's loose, and I have to constantly >>fight the thing from swapping ends. I haven't run the expert setup yet. If >>that's even *looser*, I'm not looking forward to it... >Eldred > >That was the expert setup in the Thursday night race Eldred. At least it was >supposed to be :)

Oh 'eck - *that's* why I had so many problems(beside that !@#$ bogus black flag)...? My practice laps were using the <fast> setup. I just looked back in the game - I don't even *have* the <expert> setup(for any track). Where do you get those from? Eldred p.s. Great drive by Brian, though. -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

>Oh 'eck - *that's* why I had so many problems(beside that !@#$ bogus black >flag)...? My practice laps were using the <fast> setup. I just looked back >in >the game - I don't even *have* the <expert> setup(for any track). Where do >you >get those from? PWF site. http://www.onlineracin.com/pwf/download.asp?cid=7 >Eldred >p.s. Great drive by Brian, though. Always. An alien that won't admit it :) Dan

Eldred, I suspect you are talking about the loose-off situation on fresh tires (and even worn one's at times). I never experienced _any_ sort of loose-in problems, or even close to it, so I have to assume you are talking about loose-off. In fact, the turn-in characteristics of this and similar tracks and their setups tend to negate a loose condition. Atlanta is one of those tracks that is driven off the right-rear tire. That's where most of your off-corner steering comes from. For this reason, it has to be set up a little bit on the loose side, especially at the start, if you are ever to have any sort of decent lap times well into a tire run. For this reason, you simply have to control the throttle application off-turn. In other words, Atlanta is an aero-grip track on entry (front down-force), and a mechanical grip track on exit (rear suspension setup). That's how I see it at least :) In addition, Atlanta is one of those tracks that you have to drive differently at. Brakes are BAD! Letting off too much is BAD! And the setups are designed to reflect this. At Atlanta (as well as Charlotte and Texas) when you get to your 'braking point' you don't let up off the throttle the entire amount required. The 'braking point' is actually where you start slowly (very slowly) bleeding off the throttle as you head down to the turn in/apex point. This prevents too much weight from being transferred forward. The trick is to slowly bleed off the throttle and reach the maximim 'let off' point at the exact same time you reach the point of maximum grip loss at the apex of the corner. Those that perfect this will be the one's that kick everyone elses asses at these tracks. I didn't really understand this until recently, and never thoroughly understood it until about 1/2 way through yesterday's race (too late, unfortunately, to do any good). In my attempts to save tires, I was actually making the situation worse. I was letting up too early, too hard when the tires started to wear down, and I was in fact tearing them up even more in the process. The reason is, by letting up too much on entry, I was transferring far too much weight forward far too soon, and it was causing the front end of the car to wash out thus scrubbing even more off the tires. Once I realized this, I stopped letting off so much. Even with the tires worn, I continued to drive as I did with fresh tires, and instead of letting up a lot when I reached the 'braking point' I just bled the throttle off slowly. This caused less weight to be transferred and the front of the car stopped washing out on me. I just increased the bleed-off rate so it still reached maximum throttle reduction at the point of maximum grip loss in the apex. Until I realized this yesterday, worn tires were driving me nuts and I was wearning the right-front fender off on the walls. It seemed the slower I went, the worse the front-end push got, and the more the tires wore out. The earlier I let off, and the harder I let off, the worse the push got! Yes, this is VERY hard to get right :) I verified all this with some off-line runs last night. My speeds didn't fall off nearly as much as if I started letting up more at the 'braking point', or started letting up earlier. In fact, I found letting up earlier to be a MAJOR mistake at this track. You loose too much front down-force if your corner entry speeds are too low. If you are at a track where the entry is loose for you, here is a trick that I use and it works. This is especially useful at a track like Richmond where the setups always tend to be a bit loose in... Before you let off of the throttle, apply just a _tad_ of brake. This does two things. First, and most important, it transfers a lot of the weight off of the back of the car, thus tightening it up a bit. Secondly, it tends to stabilize the car a bit better for entry. Note that this assumes the brake bias is set correctly for this sort of corner entry. It's also best to be off that brake completely before you reach the apex of the corner to prevent the brake from helping the front-end to wash out. That's my 2 cents worth :) -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <B%r4c.81428$[email hidden]>, "bluestringer" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I think you mean the expert is loose, it can get a little squirrley at > >times. The fast gets really tight after a few laps. > > Nope, I meant the fast setup. I ran practice laps with it, and I ran in > another league that used it. For me, it's loose, and I have to constantly > fight the thing from swapping ends. I haven't run the expert setup yet.

If

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> that's even *looser*, I'm not looking forward to it... > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

In article <Mc25c.4658$1e1.3199@lakeread06>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >Until I realized this yesterday, worn tires were driving me nuts and I was >wearning the right-front fender off on the walls. It seemed the slower I >went, the worse the front-end push got, and the more the tires wore out. >The earlier I let off, and the harder I let off, the worse the push got! > >Yes, this is VERY hard to get right :)

This is very hard to even understand. If you're going too fast, and thus pushing, the logical response is to slow down. Slower should allow the tires to bite more... After the conversations during practice, I tried not braking. Yeah, the times went down marginally, but I burned off the front tires a lot quicker. When I made my stops, the fronts were way yellow, and the rears were still pretty green. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

It's all about weight transfer. Toss too much of it forward at the wrong time, and it can make the front-end wash out (tight). -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Mc25c.4658$1e1.3199@lakeread06>, "Larry" <[email hidden]>writes: > > > > >Until I realized this yesterday, worn tires were driving me nuts and Iwas

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> >wearning the right-front fender off on the walls. It seemed the slower I > >went, the worse the front-end push got, and the more the tires wore out. > >The earlier I let off, and the harder I let off, the worse the push got! > > > >Yes, this is VERY hard to get right :) > > This is very hard to even understand. If you're going too fast, and thus > pushing, the logical response is to slow down. Slower should allow the

tires > to bite more... > > After the conversations during practice, I tried not braking. Yeah, thetimes > went down marginally, but I burned off the front tires a lot quicker.When I

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> made my stops, the fronts were way yellow, and the rears were still pretty > green. > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East