The 1967 Race at Watkins Glen (GPL) Big

(While I'm in a posting mood) It is interesting to note the super quick lap times some are completing at the Glen. Personally I have just done a 1:08.9 so I have a bit a catching up to do. I would be interested to hear though from you fast ones whether you are consistently doing say sub 1:08's or whether those ***s were just one-offs... (honestly) The 1967 meeting at Watkins Glen would leave even the fastest of us in mid-pack. Pole was set by Graham Hill in the Lotus with a *** of 1 min and 5.48 secs. In the race the fastest lap was a 1min and 6 secs dead (no pun intended) set by Graham Hill who eventually ran second to Jim Clark. Why are we slower? Has Papyrus made an inaccurate product? NO. Before you start worrying remember we still have to play around with the wonderful world of setups. I believe Mike Lescault (!?) of Papyrus commented that the setups provided with the three cars were less than optimal, so what sort of times we will be able to get down to in a well setup car will be interesting indeed! By means of comparison the following is the complete grid for the 108 lap race at Watkins Glen in 1967. See where you would be now... The Grid 1. Graham Hill Lotus 1:05.48 2. Jim Clark Lotus 1:06.07 3. Dan Gurney Eagle 1:06.64 4. Chris Amon Ferrari 1:06.65 5. Jack Brabham Brabham 1:06.73 6. Denny Hulme Brabham 1:07.45 About the fastest GPL time so far 7. Moises Solana Lotus 1:07.88 8. Jochen Rindt Cooper 1:07.99 9. Bruce McLaren McLaren 1:08.05 10. Jackie Stewart BRM 1:08.09 11. John Surtees Honda 1:08.13 12. Jo Stiffert Cooper 1:08.25 13. Mike Spence BRM 1:09.01 14. Chris Irwin BRM 1:09.64 15. Jo Bonnier Cooper 1:09.78 16. Jacky Ickx Cooper 1:09.94 17. Guy Ligier Brabham 1:11.32 18. J-P Beltoise Matra 1:12.05 Incidentally the grid was aligned 2 - 2 - 2, similar to the grid of most British Touring car races (for example) not the usual 3 - 2 - 3, possibly due to the narrow width of the circuit. Pole position in 1967 was set on the right hand side, inside for turn one (in case you were interested.) Kind Regards (Again) Matt Wilson

Interesting contrast to today's grids - only 1 Ferrari, 2 Lotus, 3 Brabhams and 4 Coopers - what were the team rules then ? Andy

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> (While I'm in a posting mood) > It is interesting to note the super quick lap times some are > completing at the Glen. Personally I have just done a 1:08.9 so I > have a bit a catching up to do. I would be interested to hear though > from you fast ones whether you are consistently doing say sub 1:08's > or whether those ***s were just one-offs... (honestly) > The 1967 meeting at Watkins Glen would leave even the fastest of us in > mid-pack. Pole was set by Graham Hill in the Lotus with a *** of > 1 min and 5.48 secs. In the race the fastest lap was a 1min and 6 > secs dead (no pun intended) set by Graham Hill who eventually ran > second to Jim Clark. > Why are we slower? Has Papyrus made an inaccurate product? > NO. Before you start worrying remember we still have to play around > with the wonderful world of setups. I believe Mike Lescault (!?) of > Papyrus commented that the setups provided with the three cars were > less than optimal, so what sort of times we will be able to get down > to in a well setup car will be interesting indeed! > By means of comparison the following is the complete grid for the 108 > lap race at Watkins Glen in 1967. See where you would be now... > The Grid > 1. Graham Hill Lotus 1:05.48 > 2. Jim Clark Lotus 1:06.07 > 3. Dan Gurney Eagle 1:06.64 > 4. Chris Amon Ferrari 1:06.65 > 5. Jack Brabham Brabham 1:06.73 > 6. Denny Hulme Brabham 1:07.45 About the fastest GPL > time so far > 7. Moises Solana Lotus 1:07.88 > 8. Jochen Rindt Cooper 1:07.99 > 9. Bruce McLaren McLaren 1:08.05 > 10. Jackie Stewart BRM 1:08.09 > 11. John Surtees Honda 1:08.13 > 12. Jo Stiffert Cooper 1:08.25 > 13. Mike Spence BRM 1:09.01 > 14. Chris Irwin BRM 1:09.64 > 15. Jo Bonnier Cooper 1:09.78 > 16. Jacky Ickx Cooper 1:09.94 > 17. Guy Ligier Brabham 1:11.32 > 18. J-P Beltoise Matra 1:12.05 > Incidentally the grid was aligned 2 - 2 - 2, similar to the grid of > most British Touring car races (for example) not the usual 3 - 2 - 3, > possibly due to the narrow width of the circuit. Pole position in > 1967 was set on the right hand side, inside for turn one (in case you > were interested.) > Kind Regards (Again) > Matt Wilson

Thanks for providing this information on the top ten GPL times thus far. I see I have even more work to do (and I just cracked 1m 7s with my crappy GP1) It seems that some will have less to do than others when we meet our AI opponents in the near future. But I still would like to know if these guys could keep up the pace for 108 laps?! Regards, Matt Wilson # Driver Car Country Lap Time Replay Setup 1 George Sandman 01:06.35

No, Matt. They'd come into the pits for an afternoon tea break at around lap 55....a quick pee, cuppa tea or coffee, scones with jam and cream and then out again for the rest of the race. It was more gentlemanly back then, you see. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

I agree with you there. I remember listening to I think Sir Jack Brabham recalling a GP event (non-official) held in Tasmania on a now historic track held along country roads and snaking though town. I think it was him from memory that ended up crashing one race into the wall of the local pub (in Longford) he got out and went into the pub to have a few beers with the locals while the race was running! They were good sports then, it's a pity GP drivers these days are placed under such intense pressure that its' hard for them to relax with the 'peasants'. Regards, Matt. watkins glen 1:07.9 latest (have to pull the finger out) PS... That post though was regarding 'our' fastest drivers in GPL, I wonder if THEY can keep up this cracking pace for 108 laps, or whether these golden laps are one-offs. In short can they be consistently quick.

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>No, Matt. >They'd come into the pits for an afternoon tea break at around lap >55....a quick pee, cuppa tea or coffee, scones with jam and cream and >then out again for the rest of the race. >It was more gentlemanly back then, you see. >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >---------- >The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- >http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

========= Matt Wilson wrote I think it was him from memory that ended up crashing one race into the wall of the local pub (in Longford) he got out and went into the pub to have a few beers with the locals while the race was running! ========= Bruce... Send him the pic you have about that "Pub corner" you have (hehe your speaking to Mr. F1 History Matt !). Those people at the pub where almost over the drivers at that turn (little cheap metal fence only between the track and the drivers). Boy now in F1 it's almost if you can't even get 10meters close to _any_ F1 car all-around the track Or maybe repost it on the gp-legends newsgroup ;-) - Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) - "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

(While I'm in a posting mood) It is interesting to note the super quick lap times some are completing at the Glen. Personally I have just done a 1:08.9 so I have a bit a catching up to do. I would be interested to hear though from you fast ones whether you are consistently doing say sub 1:08's or whether those ***s were just one-offs... (honestly) The Grid 1. Graham Hill Lotus 1:05.48 2. Jim Clark Lotus 1:06.07 3. Dan Gurney Eagle 1:06.64 4. Chris Amon Ferrari 1:06.65 5. Jack Brabham Brabham 1:06.73 Cool and this is where I would be, sitting in my Lotus behind the man himself Jack Brabham. As for the quick times. You dont just pull a quick time out of your bum it just doesn't work like that you just get a little better every time and your fast lap comes down slowly slowly. In order to get the fast lap though you have to push yourself and so continually crash till you get one to stick that is a little faster than your last fastest. Once you get your fastest lap it is quite easy to lap consistently going just a little bit slower than your fastest. for example my fastest is in the low 107's but I can lap in the high 107's ,low 108's all day. So I am damn sure that the likes of David Mansell will be able to drive the demo Lotus consistently at 107 flat. Todd.