TOCA 2 design - your input please...

Official announcement from Codemasters: We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, general machine problems etc). Thanks, Gavin Raeburn TOCA 2 producer

You must implement a much wider range of control options i.e. us ch virtual pilot and pro pedals users are still driving automatic touring cars with the acc/brake on buttons.....no fun:( I vote all developers should look at the end user requests....good initiative youse guys....p.s. i sure hope colin mcrae has support for ch pedals etc!!!!!!!!!!

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>Official announcement from Codemasters: >We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. >Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be >interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: >1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point >out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been >read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post >old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions >of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, >car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... >2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, >if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, >general machine problems etc). >Thanks, >Gavin Raeburn >TOCA 2 producer

>2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, >if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, >general machine problems etc). I never did get a satisfactory steering experience with my Thrustmaster T2 (using an ordinary P200, 3Dfx, Soundblaster 16 soundcard - also tried a Thrustmaster variable speed gamecard whcih was even worse). I tried every trick people suggested - latest DirectX, using Thrustmaster Propanel, latest TOCA patch. It got somewhat better, but stil leans left enough that the car is unstable and has a tendency to lurch ***ly. It basically made the game unplayable for me. It's time to face reality - DirectInput sucks. You need to have custom joystick code that bypasses DirectInput completely and reads the joystick port directly, like papyrus has done in Grand Prix Legends. I'm convinced that's the only way you'll ever get really high quality defice input in Windows95. Joe

Hi, I have (over) played the 3dfx PC version of this game. Some suggestions, 1. Track editor 2. Failures, such as suspension/tyres (including option to turn this off of course) 3. Detailed car set-ups as already mentioned, take a look at the playstation game "Gran Tourismo" I think this is one of the better driving games as handling characteristics go. In Toca 1, 9 times out of 10 once you "lost" the car it would go straight off the track. 4. I know that the point of the game is to emulate the British Touring car championship, but how about street type races included?? there was the lavaland track remember! I have seen the screenshots on game-online, looks like I will need a voodoo2 and a PII to make it look that good? My current system is Intel P233 mmx Orchid 3DFX Awe 64 value 128mb Ram Logitech wingman light joystick I had no problems setting up or running Toca 1. Chris Wells

Hi Gavin, I bought Toca when it first came out in the UK after looking forward to it for a long time. IM(very H)O you got a lot of things right. The sense of racing was very good, and the fx were often excellent. But the promised (in reviews at least) realistic driving model just wasn't there for me. I'm sure you guys have spent a while looking at GPL. Well, I certainly don't want another late 60's GP car, but I'd kill for a Touring Car sim which made me feel as if I was really in charge of the car in the way GPL manages. Heck, I'll drive *any* sim vehicle as long as it gives me that feeling of being in control of a "real" vehicle. (Not sure I'd want a Massey Ferguson sim, but I think you know what I mean :-) Of course Toca1 may be giving me that already and I just don't appreciate it, but adding car setups and so on will mean nothing (and are often ignored anyway) if the driver doesn't get that sense of control. In short (which was all you wanted in the 1st place ;-) Give me a driving model I can really believe in and you can have my 35 quid now. Andrew McP PS Actually the tractor sim might be a real hit. Anyone fancy a competition for ploughing the straightest furrow? Oh, ok... suit yourselves then :-)

Hi Gav, Great idea using the newsgroup as a sounding board...wish more developers would take notice. The features that I would like to see considered are:- 1. Force feedback support. 2. An variable difficulty setting, so you can race as hard or as easy as you want. People have a wide range of abilities, so cater for them- have a variable difficulty setting so everyone can get the most out of the game. 3. Sort out the cars handling. With a GP1 ( not the best controller admittedly ), even on low steering sensitivity, it is very easy to spin the car. For accurate handling, the steering should be made heavier, although if there was an option to change this more accurately, it would suit everyone. 4. Variable resolution settings, rather than the default 640x480. Would love to see it be able to run in 1024x768 on a SLI-enabled Voodoo2. 5. 3d audio More to follow shortly... Rob.

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>Official announcement from Codemasters: >We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. >Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be >interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: >1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point >out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been >read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post >old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions >of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, >car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... >2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, >if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, >general machine problems etc). >Thanks, >Gavin Raeburn >TOCA 2 producer

> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. > Thanks, > Gavin Raeburn > TOCA 2 producer Hi Gavin, Unfortunately, I haven't been able to play TOCA1. The demo looked great on a 3Dfx card and I was anticipating the release in Canada. Too bad it is sooo hard to find. My only suggestions are: 1. Please make it available in Western Canada for Christmas as well. I actually will buy it if I can find it. 2. Design it for internet play. Allow a reduced number of packets and such. Jason, (Remove no extra spork when replying)

Gavin, Great news!!! TOCA is very special - certainly my very favorite sim. Remember you can't please all the people all the time - some people want complex sims where half the work is done in setups and some people want arcade games that are fun but bear little relation to reality. TOCA is special (almost unique) because it fits in so nicely between these two. It is realistic without being complex and you can race in realistic races without a degree in car mecanics. So please don't kill off all the good things in TOCA and ignore the very many of us who love TOCA in part because of the lovely balance it strikes. Also BTCC is not like F1, Indy, Le Mans, Nascar or Rally and certainly not Need For Speed or Grand Turismo. Please don't be influenced by people who understand other formulas in great depth but not necessarily Touring Cars. What TOCA 2 should have is: 1) Race and time-trial replays from above, outside, inside etc. 2) Real damage (optional) and not just visual. 3) Record best splits so we can improve and review our times. 4) A non-crackable checksum algoritm. 5) Don't include the flexmobile in the best laps or your website hall of fame. It's not realistic. 6) Don't make the AI drivers so foolishly aggressive or punish them with warnings and spins. 7) Update to the 1998 season with the Nescafe Blend 37 Renault's etc. 8) Include pit-stops with option of changing side wheels or front wheels and reflect the choice in the performance of the car. 9) Improve the graphics but don't lose the feel of speed. 10) Support for wheels that support independant brake/throttle. 11) Tyre changes as only setttings. 12) Variable weather to tempt us into the pits for a tyre change when it turns inclement mid-race. 13) In race commentary (optional). 14) Option to turn off ghost car completely. 15) Make the AI drivers qualification times realistic (39.19 round Brands Hatch Indy - the lap record is 44 something) and in line with their more realistic drive times. 16) Don't force us to jettison all the skills we have learnt on TOCA 1 - ie keep the basic driving and physics model broadly similar but fix the problem where the front wheel drive cars sometimes behave like rear wheel ones. And make the four drive Audis behave as such. 17) Save best laps achieved in qualification and not just time-trial ones. 18) Allow best lap to be loaded from a directory of choice. It's a pain having to faff around backing up own best laps and copying downloaded ones in directory. 19) Optionally give us more laps to qualify from. 20) Make all levels of championship hard level not easy ones easy and later ones harder. Or let us select the degree of difficulty of the championship. 21) Have the two races at a meet a sprint race and a feature race just like the 1998 season. 22) Include the independants and perhaps change and improve the car performance for the works models during the season but not for the independants so that they fall off down the ranking during the season just like the real thing. 23) Don't kick drivers out of the championship at least not out of new only hard level one. 24) Telemetry so we can analyse are race performance (not out race setup). 25) Brake lights on ghost car so we can see where it's braking. 26) Flags yellow blue etc just like real race. 27) Have lapped cars let you pass and certainly not try and knock you off. 28) Road graphics that show the tyre marks of other drivers. 29) Real time rendered cars. And what TOCA should not lose are: 1) The level of driving realism it has. People claim that once you begin to lose the car there's no way back. I say pratice more. The tyres do squeal and the car does jerk before you lose it but only fractionally so and you CAN recover and if you start to spin - you just have to develop the reactions and knowledge of what to do. Please don't make it too easy. 2) The simplicity of the interface. Please don't bury us with layers of car setups. Some enjoy this - but there are plenty of sims to satisfy them. In any case how can you model the setting when the car parts are constantly changing through the season. I want a realistic sim without all that. Please leave us TOCA and leave the complex setting to the super-sims. Let us drive world rating laps without having to get under the bonnet (hood). 3) Don't make it arcadey like Grand Turismo, Need-for-speed or NICE - there are plenty of them as well. I hate the cartoon skies, lavaland and and all that. Please leave them as optional extras and leave us models of real tracks, real cars and real championships. By all means add extra tracks. How about the Aussie Touring Car championship - that's really close to the British one. But is you do include it setup the cars to match it and keep the Aussie cars to the Aussie championship and the British ones to the BTCC. 4) Preserve the same car handling in easy modes as ***es. Don't make an easy handling mode and a difficult one. 5) Don't get drawn down silly paths like off-road racing. Make people buy Colin McRae rally if they want that. Or some arcade game. I'll probably think of more things immediately I hit the send button. I would be more than willing to give you as much assistance as I can. If you're looking for beta-testers.... Thanks very much for TOCA - you've given a lot of us a lot of pleasure. PJ

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> Official announcement from Codemasters: > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: > 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point > out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been > read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post > old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions > of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, > car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... > 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, > if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, > general machine problems etc). > Thanks, > Gavin Raeburn > TOCA 2 producer

Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up.

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> Gavin, > Great news!!! > TOCA is very special - certainly my very favorite sim. Remember you can't > please all the people all the time - some people want complex sims where > half the work is done in setups and some people want arcade games that are > fun but bear little relation to reality. TOCA is special (almost unique) > because it fits in so nicely between these two. It is realistic without > being complex and you can race in realistic races without a degree in car > mecanics. So please don't kill off all the good things in TOCA and ignore > the very many of us who love TOCA in part because of the lovely balance it > strikes. Also BTCC is not like F1, Indy, Le Mans, Nascar or Rally and > certainly not Need For Speed or Grand Turismo. Please don't be influenced > by people who understand other formulas in great depth but not necessarily > Touring Cars. > What TOCA 2 should have is: > 1) Race and time-trial replays from above, outside, inside etc. > 2) Real damage (optional) and not just visual. > 3) Record best splits so we can improve and review our times. > 4) A non-crackable checksum algoritm. > 5) Don't include the flexmobile in the best laps or your website hall of > fame. It's not realistic. > 6) Don't make the AI drivers so foolishly aggressive or punish them with > warnings and spins. > 7) Update to the 1998 season with the Nescafe Blend 37 Renault's etc. > 8) Include pit-stops with option of changing side wheels or front wheels > and reflect the choice in the performance of the car. > 9) Improve the graphics but don't lose the feel of speed. > 10) Support for wheels that support independant brake/throttle. > 11) Tyre changes as only setttings. > 12) Variable weather to tempt us into the pits for a tyre change when it > turns inclement mid-race. > 13) In race commentary (optional). > 14) Option to turn off ghost car completely. > 15) Make the AI drivers qualification times realistic (39.19 round Brands > Hatch Indy - the lap record is 44 something) and in line with their more > realistic drive times. > 16) Don't force us to jettison all the skills we have learnt on TOCA 1 - > ie keep the basic driving and physics model broadly similar but fix the > problem where the front wheel drive cars sometimes behave like rear wheel > ones. And make the four drive Audis behave as such. > 17) Save best laps achieved in qualification and not just time-trial ones. > 18) Allow best lap to be loaded from a directory of choice. It's a pain > having to faff around backing up own best laps and copying downloaded ones > in directory. > 19) Optionally give us more laps to qualify from. > 20) Make all levels of championship hard level not easy ones easy and > later ones harder. Or let us select the degree of difficulty of the > championship. > 21) Have the two races at a meet a sprint race and a feature race just > like the 1998 season. > 22) Include the independants and perhaps change and improve the car > performance for the works models during the season but not for the > independants so that they fall off down the ranking during the season just > like the real thing. > 23) Don't kick drivers out of the championship at least not out of new > only hard level one. > 24) Telemetry so we can analyse are race performance (not out race setup). > 25) Brake lights on ghost car so we can see where it's braking. > 26) Flags yellow blue etc just like real race. > 27) Have lapped cars let you pass and certainly not try and knock you off. > 28) Road graphics that show the tyre marks of other drivers. > 29) Real time rendered cars. > And what TOCA should not lose are: > 1) The level of driving realism it has. People claim that once you begin > to lose the car there's no way back. I say pratice more. The tyres do > squeal and the car does jerk before you lose it but only fractionally so > and you CAN recover and if you start to spin - you just have to develop > the reactions and knowledge of what to do. Please don't make it too easy. > 2) The simplicity of the interface. Please don't bury us with layers of > car setups. Some enjoy this - but there are plenty of sims to satisfy > them. In any case how can you model the setting when the car parts are > constantly changing through the season. I want a realistic sim without all > that. Please leave us TOCA and leave the complex setting to the > super-sims. Let us drive world rating laps without having to get under the > bonnet (hood). > 3) Don't make it arcadey like Grand Turismo, Need-for-speed or NICE - > there are plenty of them as well. I hate the cartoon skies, lavaland and > and all that. Please leave them as optional extras and leave us models of > real tracks, real cars and real championships. By all means add extra > tracks. How about the Aussie Touring Car championship - that's really > close to the British one. But is you do include it setup the cars to match > it and keep the Aussie cars to the Aussie championship and the British > ones to the BTCC. > 4) Preserve the same car handling in easy modes as ***es. Don't make > an easy handling mode and a difficult one. > 5) Don't get drawn down silly paths like off-road racing. Make people buy > Colin McRae rally if they want that. Or some arcade game. > I'll probably think of more things immediately I hit the send button. I > would be more than willing to give you as much assistance as I can. If > you're looking for beta-testers.... > Thanks very much for TOCA - you've given a lot of us a lot of pleasure. > PJ > > Official announcement from Codemasters: > > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: > > 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point > > out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been > > read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post > > old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions > > of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, > > car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... > > 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, > > if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, > > general machine problems etc). > > Thanks, > > Gavin Raeburn > > TOCA 2 producer

Corection to point 20: 20) Let us select the degree of difficulty of the championship.When we select hard make all levels of championship hard level not the early races easy and later ones harder. In case I get misunderstood I am not suggesting off-road racing is silly. What I meant was that it's silly to have highly-tuned circuit BTCC Touring Cars drive off-road. I shall be buying, and almost certainly enjoying Colin McRae Rally. PJ

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> Gavin, > Great news!!! > TOCA is very special - certainly my very favorite sim. Remember you can't > please all the people all the time - some people want complex sims where > half the work is done in setups and some people want arcade games that are > fun but bear little relation to reality. TOCA is special (almost unique) > because it fits in so nicely between these two. It is realistic without > being complex and you can race in realistic races without a degree in car > mecanics. So please don't kill off all the good things in TOCA and ignore > the very many of us who love TOCA in part because of the lovely balance it > strikes. Also BTCC is not like F1, Indy, Le Mans, Nascar or Rally and > certainly not Need For Speed or Grand Turismo. Please don't be influenced > by people who understand other formulas in great depth but not necessarily > Touring Cars. > What TOCA 2 should have is: > 1) Race and time-trial replays from above, outside, inside etc. > 2) Real damage (optional) and not just visual. > 3) Record best splits so we can improve and review our times. > 4) A non-crackable checksum algoritm. > 5) Don't include the flexmobile in the best laps or your website hall of > fame. It's not realistic. > 6) Don't make the AI drivers so foolishly aggressive or punish them with > warnings and spins. > 7) Update to the 1998 season with the Nescafe Blend 37 Renault's etc. > 8) Include pit-stops with option of changing side wheels or front wheels > and reflect the choice in the performance of the car. > 9) Improve the graphics but don't lose the feel of speed. > 10) Support for wheels that support independant brake/throttle. > 11) Tyre changes as only setttings. > 12) Variable weather to tempt us into the pits for a tyre change when it > turns inclement mid-race. > 13) In race commentary (optional). > 14) Option to turn off ghost car completely. > 15) Make the AI drivers qualification times realistic (39.19 round Brands > Hatch Indy - the lap record is 44 something) and in line with their more > realistic drive times. > 16) Don't force us to jettison all the skills we have learnt on TOCA 1 - > ie keep the basic driving and physics model broadly similar but fix the > problem where the front wheel drive cars sometimes behave like rear wheel > ones. And make the four drive Audis behave as such. > 17) Save best laps achieved in qualification and not just time-trial ones. > 18) Allow best lap to be loaded from a directory of choice. It's a pain > having to faff around backing up own best laps and copying downloaded ones > in directory. > 19) Optionally give us more laps to qualify from. > 20) Make all levels of championship hard level not easy ones easy and > later ones harder. Or let us select the degree of difficulty of the > championship. > 21) Have the two races at a meet a sprint race and a feature race just > like the 1998 season. > 22) Include the independants and perhaps change and improve the car > performance for the works models during the season but not for the > independants so that they fall off down the ranking during the season just > like the real thing. > 23) Don't kick drivers out of the championship at least not out of new > only hard level one. > 24) Telemetry so we can analyse are race performance (not out race setup). > 25) Brake lights on ghost car so we can see where it's braking. > 26) Flags yellow blue etc just like real race. > 27) Have lapped cars let you pass and certainly not try and knock you off. > 28) Road graphics that show the tyre marks of other drivers. > 29) Real time rendered cars. > And what TOCA should not lose are: > 1) The level of driving realism it has. People claim that once you begin > to lose the car there's no way back. I say pratice more. The tyres do > squeal and the car does jerk before you lose it but only fractionally so > and you CAN recover and if you start to spin - you just have to develop > the reactions and knowledge of what to do. Please don't make it too easy. > 2) The simplicity of the interface. Please don't bury us with layers of > car setups. Some enjoy this - but there are plenty of sims to satisfy > them. In any case how can you model the setting when the car parts are > constantly changing through the season. I want a realistic sim without all > that. Please leave us TOCA and leave the complex setting to the > super-sims. Let us drive world rating laps without having to get under the > bonnet (hood). > 3) Don't make it arcadey like Grand Turismo, Need-for-speed or NICE - > there are plenty of them as well. I hate the cartoon skies, lavaland and > and all that. Please leave them as optional extras and leave us models of > real tracks, real cars and real championships. By all means add extra > tracks. How about the Aussie Touring Car championship - that's really > close to the British one. But is you do include it setup the cars to match > it and keep the Aussie cars to the Aussie championship and the British > ones to the BTCC. > 4) Preserve the same car handling in easy modes as ***es. Don't make > an easy handling mode and a difficult one. > 5) Don't get drawn down silly paths like off-road racing. Make people buy > Colin McRae rally if they want that. Or some arcade game. > I'll probably think of more things immediately I hit the send button. I > would be more than willing to give you as much assistance as I can. If > you're looking for beta-testers.... > Thanks very much for TOCA - you've given a lot of us a lot of pleasure. > PJ > > Official announcement from Codemasters: > > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: > > 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point > > out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been > > read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post > > old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions > > of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, > > car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... > > 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, > > if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, > > general machine problems etc). > > Thanks, > > Gavin Raeburn > > TOCA 2 producer

-***pit view with working gauge.

Thanks for asking the ppl that Drive....... I think u should include a paint editor . I have found some heaps better looking car paint jobs on the net than were provided with Gp2 and F1rs , Or at liest make it easy for other ppl to make batch files to easly patch existing carsets, I think this would give your new game a much greater live span My 2 cents worth Craig

Sell it in the United States!!! In the Washington D.C. area, not just mail-order. Isaac Wilson R/C Adrenalin "...some play golf, we race r/c touring cars..." http://www.geocities.com/eureka/gold/7902/110scale.html

The option to "not" have a ghost appear on the second lap or any lap for that matter when hotlapping, unless of course you have set one to chase via a "ghost select" option. Very off-puting to have a ghost, and a very solid one at that, sliding about under you while trying to beat your previous best lap. I could do with some greater sensitivity adjustment for steering using a TM GP1, i have to edit dinput.dll to 0% atm to get somewhere close to correct. Better visibility from the "in***pit" view even if it means removing the "A" posts from view. Look at F1RS for how to do some things and how not to do others<s> Speed up the track loads please. Regards. Mike.....also available for Beta or Alpha testing! -- 06:38 on 07/07/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Well done for asking the ng for feedback. I'd like to see TOCA extended beyond the BTCC if at all possible. A selection of some of the better international tracks, such as Bathurst here in Australia would be cool. Support for full length endurance races (allowing for pitstop strategies) at the venues that run them would also be nice. I know it's a tall order but you asked <g> Cheers, Nick

Suggestions: 1) If you include bonus tracks and cars, make them proper cars and tracks. I am going to buy Colin McRae rally because it has the RS200, Escort RS and Audi Sport Quattro. So dump the Flexmobile and Tank and give us an old Mini Cooper, Lotus Cortina or Sierra Cosworth. And put them on Spa for the bonus track, not on Lavaland. 2) Proper damage. 3) Make those helmets smaller. The pre-release screenshots look like the cars are being driven by Power Rangers. Stephen

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>Official announcement from Codemasters: >We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. >Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be >interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: >1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point >out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been >read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post >old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions >of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, >car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...

1. in-game car editor so that we can create carsets for the Australian and German Super Touring Car 2. more realistic damage - engine blowups...tyre failures...maybe oil on the track? 3. if possible, different in car views for the different cars....some with column mounted shifters, some with console mounted, and an active Pi dash would be great. 4. ability to setup the car (maybe like a really serious sim) A whole lot less sensitivity for joystick users (even on the low setting its far too twitchy. Also ability to change resolutions (e.g. for V2 users - but you probably already thought of that) And the most important part BATHURST. I know its not part of the BTCC, but given a lot of BTCC racers are coming this year, as well as Australian, and maybe a few New Zealand, German and Italian drivers, it would help to bring the game to a more worldly audience (the same as Super Touring racing). -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - - V8Supercars - CART -

> [Good points] Great ideas Paul, I'm on your wavelength. I'd like to second the idea of keeping the spirit of the game and not introduce tons of setup options. TOCA is all about wheel-to-wheel racing, great handling cars, and a real immersive driving experience. Codemasters got the balance just right IMHO. My only concern is that there will be so many new features that my ageing P133 won't be able to cope! Can Gavin provide any idea on what system spec they will be pitching at ? -- Andrew Fielden. UK.

I assume you've already read my post where I outlined all the things I'd like to see in the game. I'd just like to say thanks for taking notice. Cheers! Long live Codemasters :) -- Spudgun

Good idea this. I second it. -- Spudgun

> Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph > when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and > have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds > they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up. On the subject of qualifying, does anyone actually manage to qualify on pole consistently. The only race I got it was Croft, which is towards the end of the season. Usually I qualify midway down the pack. I can see why CM made qualifying so difficult, because from pole you can then blast away from the pack and win with ease. -- Andrew Fielden. UK.

I don't think the helmets look particularly big in the screenshots. They just need the colours dimming down a bit IMO. -- Spudgun

1 Get rid of the rather silly "you need to get X points" in this race to race in the next one, Not realistic. 2. Save game between heats. Sometime I only have time to race in one heat. 3. Let us choose the number of laps we want to run. SELL IT IN THE US.

I would like to add the suggestion of a better timing system during the race. Most pit boards displayed to drivers will show the time gap to the person in front of them, or if they are leading, the interval to the 2nd place car. Although TOCA did show the time interval to the person ahead of you, I dont think it ever showed you anything if you were in the lead. Minor thing to point out I know. But it does help to know how far you are ahead of the field when you are in a long race, and are busy passing backmarkers trying to make time for that mandatory pit stop. F1Filter P.S. Another vote to have it simultaneously released in Europe and the States as well

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> Official announcement from Codemasters: > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: > 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should

point > out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been > read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post > old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions > of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, > car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... > 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, > if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, > general machine problems etc). My feature list would be as follows, Not necessarily in this order..... 1) An option to turn *off* the ghost car would be nice? 2) car set-ups? (eg: tyres, gear ratios, suspension, steering lock, fuel load, etc) and the game should remember the car set-ups. 3) Replay mode? 4) Option to edit the car (and track) graphics? 5) Option to drive all around the circuit, even off road areas? 6) Damage accurately modelled? 7) Save game facility (anywhere in the game) 8-) *Peter* 8-) (NB: remove asterix to e-mail)

i think you should include real damage, force feedbak support, tyre wear, strategic pitstops, car failure, CAR SETUPS, sprint and feature races, pit radio link, svga***pit, windows that you can see shattered from inside view, no stupid bonus tracks and cars - real tracks and cars, ability to drive where you want - no out of bounds. Hope This Helps (if it is genuine). Codemasters produce the best games, by far. The Unofficial Colin McRae Rally Players Zone By Keith Quinton Cheats, Hints, Guides, Fastest Times, Championship (PC) News, Demo, Updates, FAQ's mailing list and more . http://members.aol.com/mcraerally/cmrally/pages/home.html

Make the cars behave like they are FWD. A fwd car under steers when you accelerate and over steers when you lift up. I don't know if the BTCC drivers use left foot braking, like the rally drivers do, to bring the rear end around or not. If they do, that would be a nice feature to have. My hw is: PII 300 Sierra Screaming 3D Pure 3D2 Thrustmaster Nascar Pro (to be replaced with forced feed back wheel when available, Saitek's maybe?). BTW has anyone seen the Saitek R4 wheel in real life? It looks pretty cool. Check out their site www.saitek.com. Koran The man who was caught by surprise when his SAAB 96 over steered into a pine tree.

Strangely, Croft is the only one I can get on pole as well - doesn't stop me trying though. You're a better racer than me. I can always get on pole and win on medium difficulty but only I can only win 50% or less of the time on hard mode. The championship seems to be set at medium up until the last three races, by which time I'm near enough uncatchable. I don't bother with it any more I just race on hard mode or time trials now. I've done 39.60 at Brands on a time trial but that wouldn't get me on pole! PJ

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> > Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph > > when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and > > have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds > > they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up. > On the subject of qualifying, does anyone actually manage to > qualify on pole consistently. The only race I got it was Croft, > which is towards the end of the season. Usually I qualify midway > down the pack. > I can see why CM made qualifying so difficult, because from pole > you can then blast away from the pack and win with ease. > -- > Andrew Fielden. > UK.

Thanks Andrew. I used to run it on a 133MHz without a graphics card, but I upgraded to a 200MHz overdrive and bought a Voodoo 1. Now it flies. I suspect that even this spec will be left behind by the sims coming up in the pipeline. PJ

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> > [Good points] > Great ideas Paul, I'm on your wavelength. I'd like to second the idea of > keeping the spirit of the game and not introduce tons of setup options. > TOCA is all about wheel-to-wheel racing, great handling cars, and a real > immersive driving experience. Codemasters got the balance just right IMHO. > My only concern is that there will be so many new features that my ageing > P133 won't be able to cope! Can Gavin provide any idea on what system > spec they will be pitching at ? > -- > Andrew Fielden. > UK.

Oh yeah, and give us rear view mirrors too. It's unrealistic and definitely very tricky to try and find the button that's shows you where the car behind is while approaching a slow corner. Even if you manage this, the view takes up the entire screen so by the time you discover that you need to drive defensively you've probably lost the racing line anyway and defensive driving becomes less important than just staying on the track. In reality you have to rely on the sound of the engine of the car behind you. PJ

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> Official announcement from Codemasters: > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: > 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point > out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been > read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post > old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions > of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning, > car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc... > 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions, > if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards, > general machine problems etc). > Thanks, > Gavin Raeburn > TOCA 2 producer

Hi Paul ! Why do most of you quote THE COMPLETE MESSAGE AGAIN AND AGAIN ??? Can you imagine the costs invoked by that ***??? Thanx in advance !! Also, man mailt sich... .\\atze [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ] *home* : http://www.home4u.de/buesing/

On Tue, 07 Jul 1998 23:52:31 +0100, Paul Jones >I agree about the front wheel drive modelling. As you say, it is upsetting >when the back goes round when you should be pulling from the front. >PJ If you watch a ST race, you can see lots of oversteering FWD cars. Its not impossible, FWD doesnt equal understeer all the time. -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo - - V8Supercars - CART -

I haven't read this group enough to say what has been said and what hasn't. So.. I race on TEN with Papyrus's nascar2 against 20+ humans in real time. Nothing beets racing something that's unpredictable as apposed to the computer generated opponants that after a while the human knows exacly what the computer is going to do next and can take advantage of it and win every race. That does get boring after a while. I would buy the product and kill my TEN account if there was a sim setup on a network where as I could race against many humans like TEN using a sim that races on road coarses and not ovals. Till then, I will *NOT* buy another racing sim. > Official announcement from Codemasters: > We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas. > Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be > interested to hear posts from you on the following two points: snip.. -- Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing MikeBa on the TEN network HTTP://HOME.EZNET.NET/~MIKEBA Racing online with help from... Race Communications Association of Wakins Glen, N.Y. Http://members.xoom.com/rca/toc.htm Holodyne Engineering of Rochester, N.Y.

Does anyone else think it's strange that CodeMasters haven't responded in this thread? There have been a lot of very good suggestions proposed, and some follow-up questions. Maybe they are just overwhelmed? -- Andrew Fielden. UK.

No, I will be responding, but right now I'm just sitting back and making notes. If I start commenting on what will/won't be in TOCA 2 and the reasons for doing so, then this thread will be in danger of developing into a narrow discussion on just a few issues. This is fine - but not just now. Once I have all your ideas I'll post a detailed response. So far however, I'm pleased to say that all the points you have raised have already been addressed for inclusion in TOCA 2. Gavin Raeburn TOCA 2 producer On Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:31:09 +0100, Andrew Fielden

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>Does anyone else think it's strange that CodeMasters haven't >responded in this thread? There have been a lot of very good >suggestions proposed, and some follow-up questions. >Maybe they are just overwhelmed? >-- >Andrew Fielden. >UK.

> So far however, I'm pleased to say that all the points you have raised > have already been addressed for inclusion in TOCA 2. Ok, great. One other minor point that occurred to me - the driving view always defaults to behind-the-car position. I always drive in-car. Why not save information like this in a startup file so you don't have to change these details every time you race. -- Andrew Fielden. UK.

It's no surprise they haven't replied. They are hardly going to say 'I like this idea but that one's crap.' Especially considering some of the practically unworkable ideas suggested. -- Spudgun

Hi, Gavin. I've posted my comments on TOCA 2 before, but since you are connected with Codemasters, I was just wondering when they plan on releasing a demo for Colin McRae Rally. I know you probably don't know, but it's worth a try, I get no response at all from Codies when I e-mail them :( I know it's off the subject, so Everyone else, try not to reply to this message so we can keep it a TOCA 2 thread. Thanks Bye! The Unofficial Colin McRae Rally Players Zone By Keith Quinton Cheats, Hints, Guides, Fastest Times, Championship (PC) News, Demo, Updates, FAQ's mailing list and more . http://members.aol.com/mcraerally/cmrally/pages/home.html

A PSX 3 track demo of Colin McRae is already out. The PC 3 track demo should be on our web site within the next 2-4 weeks (but don't quote me on that!) TOCA 2 demos will be out around October!! Hope this helps. Cheers, Gavin

Official Codemasters response to our TOCA 2 design input post. Okay - you've all gone quiet now, so I guess you've ran out of stuff to say. I've compiled a list of around 70 points from all your posts - 99% of which have already been discussed by my team. I'm not going to stuff up our marketing department by replying to each point in turn and giving away the features of TOCA 2 (well not yet, anyway), but I haven't seen any post that has not been addressed positively in the design of TOCA 2. This will almost certainly be the last TOCA you will see on the PSX, and the last for a couple of years on the PC, so we intend on going out with a bang! Anyway, in reply to some of your non-design issues: PC: The basic machine set-up required to run TOCA 2 will be the same as for TOCA 1, but TOCA 2 will be scalable, so it will use all the available power of the host machine (including variable screen resolutions, detail settings, special effects etc.) PC: You can now bypass DirectInput in TOCA 2 (I can hear the applause now...), so you should have no steering wheel and other controller problems. PC: The Hall of Fame lap-times are now uncrackable, and we will probably feature an upload/download best track replay feature as an additional security measure. PSX: Dual shock/analogue support will be of the same standard as Collin McRae Rally (good game!) If you want to read about TOCA 2 in full, you can read the rather large preview in the September issue of the Official PSX mag and in various PC mags shortly after. We will be releasing PSX + PC demos as soon as we can. Thank-you for your input, Gavin Raeburn TOCA 2 Producer

> A PSX 3 track demo of Colin McRae is already out. > The PC 3 track demo should be on our web site within the next 2-4 > weeks (but don't quote me on that!) > TOCA 2 demos will be out around October!! Will there be a sneek peak at ECTS in September ? Rob

ALFA ALFA ALFA We (me 8-) ) want an Alfa 155 and 156. I would like to drive in a red 155 against a red 156. I would love to trounce on Emanuelle Naspetti's BMW Italia 320i with my red Alfa 155 TS 16V. Thanks you. We love you. Zamani p/s a BMW would be nice to 8-) At least have one RWD car.

And oh yes, where is Brands Hatch the long circuit? I want to drive through Dingle Dell or something. Zamani

> Official Codemasters response to our TOCA 2 design input post. I have one suggestion for TOCA 2 that I haven't seen addressed ... DESCENT U.S. DISTRIBUTION. Face it, TOCA distrbution sucked. Can we PLEASE buy it in the US within a resonable time of when it comes out in Europe???? Please? Thanks... Doug

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>> Official Codemasters response to our TOCA 2 design input post. >I have one suggestion for TOCA 2 that I haven't seen addressed ... >DESCENT U.S. DISTRIBUTION. >Face it, TOCA distrbution sucked. >Can we PLEASE buy it in the US within a resonable time of when it comes >out in Europe???? Please? >Thanks... >Doug

Duhhhhhhh I don't blame them, really. They would have had to commit to what 50,000? Units on sale or return to enter america with a product based on a series no would have ever heard of? Z.

<snip> <snip> I only upgraded to a PII-300 the other day so I decided to have a look at the TOCA demo I downloaded a while back, last time I looked it was unplayable on a P100 (without 3D), now it's stunning! One problem though, I have an F1-Sim steering wheel and pedals, I normally have the pedals configured as seperate channels but I had to flick a DIL switch and re-calibrate within the pedals unit. Another nag is that the F1-Sim has a lock to lock of about 270 degrees, but when driving TOCA full lock appears to be about half that. Are these issues addressed within the above statement? Thanks for asking for our input, it's very rare for a software company to do that nowdays! Steve Day Linear Designs

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>I only upgraded to a PII-300 the other day so I decided to have a look >at the TOCA demo I downloaded a while back, last time I looked it was >unplayable on a P100 (without 3D), now it's stunning! >One problem though, I have an F1-Sim steering wheel and pedals, I >normally have the pedals configured as seperate channels but I had to >flick a DIL switch and re-calibrate within the pedals unit. >Another nag is that the F1-Sim has a lock to lock of about 270 >degrees, but when driving TOCA full lock appears to be about half >that. >Are these issues addressed within the above statement?

I have added your F1-Sim wheel problems to my ever growing list! Due to the nature of PC's You will never eliminate all problems, but by having our own calibration screen and most of the wheels and pads out there avaiable for us to test, we should get pretty close. Gavin

> Duhhhhhhh > I don't blame them, really. They would have had to commit to what 50,000? > Units on sale or return to enter america with a product based on a series no > would have ever heard of? In a way it's too bad they have to use the TOCA name...that's what nobody's heard of over here. I think something with the words "Touring Cars" more pre***ly displayed would get a little more recognition. -- Neil Yeatman Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

You have included TSWs haven't you. Please don't say no 'cos I've just shelled out a packet for one! PJ

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> >I only upgraded to a PII-300 the other day so I decided to have a look > >at the TOCA demo I downloaded a while back, last time I looked it was > >unplayable on a P100 (without 3D), now it's stunning! > >One problem though, I have an F1-Sim steering wheel and pedals, I > >normally have the pedals configured as seperate channels but I had to > >flick a DIL switch and re-calibrate within the pedals unit. > >Another nag is that the F1-Sim has a lock to lock of about 270 > >degrees, but when driving TOCA full lock appears to be about half > >that. > >Are these issues addressed within the above statement? > I have added your F1-Sim wheel problems to my ever growing list! > Due to the nature of PC's You will never eliminate all problems, but > by having our own calibration screen and most of the wheels and pads > out there avaiable for us to test, we should get pretty close. > Gavin

On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:42:00 +0100, Paul Jones >You have included TSWs haven't you. Please don't say no 'cos I've just >shelled out a packet for one! >PJ If you mean the Thrustmaster wheels then yes, they are included. Gavin

Gavin, I meant the Thomas Super Wheel. Another point, it would be nice if you could switch cars like Grand Prix 2 - you know when it goes "driving with ..." on one of the F keys. PJ

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> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:42:00 +0100, Paul Jones > >You have included TSWs haven't you. Please don't say no 'cos I've just > >shelled out a packet for one! > >PJ > If you mean the Thrustmaster wheels then yes, they are included. > Gavin

Gavin, If you're still looking for input here are still more thoughts on TOCA: 1) Allow us to drive with (but not control) the cars in the .lap saves, showing gear changes and revs. That would really help people analyse their races. 2) If you end a time trial via esc key you should have the option of restarting rather than having to go through all the menus and reloading. This would be cool if you're hot-lapping and you***up the first corner. 3) Please don't put other UK courses (eg. Castle Coombe or Cadwell Park) or other layouts of current courses (eg. Oulton Fosters or Brands Hatch GP) into a championship - it wouldn't be realistic. The realism is what makes TOCA a winner anyway. I'd much rather see the Aussie, German, Swedish, Argentinian or South American circuits and championships with the cars setup for those particular formulas - most of the cars are the same models with different paintwork anyhow - and I shouldn't have thought it'd be too hard to code it the differences. It would give TOCA 2 a bigger market anyway. I thinks a lot of people would love to see Alfas (esp. Matthias Beusing) and BMWs. 4) Make the engine noises less whiney - I'm not a sound expert but I'd have thought they need more bass. 5) Allow the program to take updates to the car models so that, when the 1999 season starts, you can issue the new models through a patch - I'd certainly be prepared to pay for it. Also allow driver transfers - like how Biela and Tarquini have gone over to the German TCC from the British. 6) Assuming you're putting in a damage model, please include flat-spotting the tyres when you lock the brakes - there's not a lot of penalty for doing it in TOCA 1. 7) Allow internet/modem/network play to accomodate two or more players on each connected box. 8) Save best times for qualifying and racing as well as for TTing but in three different categories. Save the .lap files for each as well. Thanks for giving r.a.s an input to TOCA 2. Paul

writes Take up the DPMRA British Touring Car Challenge http:/www.dpi-media.co.uk/dpmra/ 01st Challenge Fastest Laps at Silverstone International needed by... ...Monday August 31st 1998 00:00 BST Cheers -- Dan Prescott

Setup Internet play like MTM2 or Descent Freespace which is even better. Allow for users to download car skins so each person can drive their exclusive car in looks. Have all stats be stored on your server like Freespace but allow the users to setup their computer as a the host on your servers. This to me seems to work best and at the most important no cost thingy. NRO is just not practical. Keep the great handling model. Also as you improve your your damage model make a demolition derby pit for internet play. With good physics unlike the stupid MTM 2 rumbles. I think a real good demo derby would be a huge internet hit. A couple circle tracks non-champ mode. I don't subscribe to the two weeks practice to be good theory. Me and my friends don't have that kind of time anymore if ever. THANKS BH

First of all, I have read the other posts but I will probably be repeating some of the points mentioned earlier but hopefully from my own slightly different point of view. 1. AI Use a slider like in Papyrus Indycar and Nascar simulations. The range of the slider should exceed 100% so one can 'overclock' the opponents for longer lasting playabilty (when one has mastered the 'real' level). TOCA 1 is way too easy on the hard level. Skip the 'progressive AI' used in TOCA 1 when in chamionship. Utterly disturbing. Same AI skill through out the whole of the season. Randomize the skills of the different tems a little bit more, in TOCA 1 Renault always wins etc. Calculate/simulate real qualifying times for the AI cars. Increase AI cars overtaking skills. They tend to get hung up behind slower cars making it very easy to catch the leader when lapping. They seem to be very passive when stuck behind another car. Maybe a little higher aggression would cover that. 2. Graphics Current (TOCA 1) in-car view is great, But a non-head-feedback view with working gauges should be added. See-through windows wanted. 3. Courses Since it's a BTCC sim, all current BTCC season tracks should be included. As for bonus tracks why not include the option to race different 'versions' of the included tracks, like the long Brands Hatch, the F1 Silverstone, Longer Oulton, different Croft etc. Less new graphics, easier production :) Skip the 'Out of bounds'. If you slide off onto wet grass you shouldn't be magically bounced on to the track again. The whole area of the track surface should be drivable, it adds realism IMO. 4. Cars Current season cars. Include the option to choose which driver you want to replace. (100% swede team with me Rydell and Volvo impossible in TOCA 1 Full starting field, including privateers. 5. Sound Let the Cd-audio loop! 6. Realism Real damage and real pit-stops. Same physics engine for AI cars and human controlled. (AI wheel spin down the whole Donington straight? Don't think so) Current season qualification rules. DNF possible, breakdowns, flips etc. -- Eagerly awaiting TOCA 2! kotta [at] mindless.com http://www.isk.kth.se/~id96_kko ICQ# 6963779 etc...

I would also like to see, for the hell of it, an option to use the original Audi A4 AWD WITHOUT the weight penalty. And the addition of the 96 season BMW. Also, the damage graphics and realism is almost nonexistent, add the realism. Ability to change gearing and suspension. An interior view more like in "The Pits" patch for NASCAR 2. Perhaps also add the German STW and the Aussie BOCC??? 3Dfx support!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And maybe the newer Matrox G200 as well!!!! And, . . . . perhaps add Murray Walker's commentaries as an added "FUN" option???

Slow them down in the corners. No way is 70% of a Thruxton lap flat out. Also, make the game Wireplay compatible (only of interest to UK players). Internet play, as everyone really knows, is c.r.a.p. There's no way you can race wheel to wheel with half a second delay over the net. Anyone who has played internet TOCA will know this:- opponent's cars constantly go crashing off the track as the your game software predicts where they were heading when it last heard from them. Then suddenly, an update arrives and presto! they're back right ahead of you. Funny, but no more like real racing than exchanging fastest lap times in a chat room.

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> >Slow them down in the corners. No way is 70% of a Thruxton lap flat out. > I think you'll find its more like 75%. There are only really 2 braking > areas on Thruxton, just before the chicane and just before the > complex, the rest is pretty much flat out. > Dunno how you could make the gameplay better on this track when > the real life races are pretty dull. > Jamie

I wondered about this. The circuit seems pretty accurate, but maybe the track adhesion of the cars is a little too strong. I'm guessing that the real drivers have to lift off on some of the faster bends. -- Andrew Fielden. UK.