OT: iTunes CD's

All, This is a question for anyone who uses/has used the iTunes Music Store and has created CD's from the AAC format files. First, I think the AAC format sounds just fine. No complaints really, though it will never match true WAV/AIFF sound quality. Thus my venture into FLAC. However, I also am not a huge fan of purchasing music that is tied to one company in regards to my ability to use what I've purchased, and this would go for ANY download service. With that said, I have purchased about 250 tracks from the iTunes Music Store since it opened shop. It was simply economically smart to do so. The songs I wanted were one-off's. singles from other albums, etc... and to purchase them all on CD's would have cost me thousands of dollars to get them. Now, here's my question. I've burned all of them to CD using iTunes on my iMac. Is it just me, or is the right-channel audio weak on CD's created from AAC's from the iTunes Music Store? -Larry

Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to be smart... How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You mentioned FLAC, so you obviously know that there are compression formats out there that are lossless... As a "musician" or whatever, I can't imagine ever selling people my "craft" in a format that is doesn't reproduce it to the accuracy it was recorded and intended. But I guess there's a whole arguement to be made there, that if the user can't tell the difference.. is there even one. But, then again, my parents are perfectly happy listening to 128kbps mp3's, which as we all know, sound like shite. Plus, I guess if you just want the "hits".. it's probably an ideal solution. Ah well, back to sim racing. :) Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cNp4c.32$1e1.30@lakeread06...

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> All, > > This is a question for anyone who uses/has used the iTunes Music Store and > has created CD's from the AAC format files. > > First, I think the AAC format sounds just fine. No complaints really, > though it will never match true WAV/AIFF sound quality. Thus my venture > into FLAC. > > However, I also am not a huge fan of purchasing music that is tied to one > company in regards to my ability to use what I've purchased, and this

would > go for ANY download service. > > With that said, I have purchased about 250 tracks from the iTunes Music > Store since it opened shop. It was simply economically smart to do so.The

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> songs I wanted were one-off's. singles from other albums, etc... and to > purchase them all on CD's would have cost me thousands of dollars to get > them. > > Now, here's my question. > > I've burned all of them to CD using iTunes on my iMac. > > Is it just me, or is the right-channel audio weak on CD's created from

AAC's > from the iTunes Music Store? > > -Larry > >

I couldn't agree with you more Mike, I'm a musician and big music fan and think that mp3's sound crap and would never dream of paying for one. Saying that, I've started using Itunes and the 256Kbit ACC's sound pretty good, then again if I was using a crappy sound card and little plastic speakers, I doubt that I could tell the difference. You might be right about pop music, my 4 1/2 year old has some pop compilation cd's and the sound of some of the tracks is downright nasty. I guess it all comes down to convenience and attention spans, as a musician you know what you're up against! Craig Mike Beauchamp wrote:

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> Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to be > smart... > > How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You > mentioned FLAC, so you obviously know that there are compression > formats out there that are lossless... > > As a "musician" or whatever, I can't imagine ever selling people my > "craft" in a format that is doesn't reproduce it to the accuracy it > was recorded and intended. But I guess there's a whole arguement to > be made there, that if the user can't tell the difference.. is there > even one. But, then again, my parents are perfectly happy listening > to 128kbps mp3's, which as we all know, sound like shite. Plus, I > guess if you just want the "hits".. it's probably an ideal solution. > > Ah well, back to sim racing. :) > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cNp4c.32$1e1.30@lakeread06... >> All, >> >> This is a question for anyone who uses/has used the iTunes Music >> Store and has created CD's from the AAC format files. >> >> First, I think the AAC format sounds just fine. No complaints >> really, though it will never match true WAV/AIFF sound quality. >> Thus my venture into FLAC. >> >> However, I also am not a huge fan of purchasing music that is tied >> to one company in regards to my ability to use what I've purchased, >> and this would go for ANY download service. >> >> With that said, I have purchased about 250 tracks from the iTunes >> Music Store since it opened shop. It was simply economically smart >> to do so. The songs I wanted were one-off's. singles from other >> albums, etc... and to purchase them all on CD's would have cost me >> thousands of dollars to get them. >> >> Now, here's my question. >> >> I've burned all of them to CD using iTunes on my iMac. >> >> Is it just me, or is the right-channel audio weak on CD's created >> from AAC's from the iTunes Music Store? >> >> -Larry

That's a very valid question, Mike... I have purchased somewhere between 225 and 250 tracks from the iTunes Music Store. I didn't do it because I like compressed formats, and I sure as hell didn't do it because I like having my use of something I PAID for limited in any way, though iTunes is the most liberal of all the DRM scheme's out there. No, I'd prefer to download FLAC/AIFF/WAV files. But that will never happen, from a bandwidth and DRM standpoint. The Music Industry would never go for it. I purchased the tracks through the iTMS because it was by far the most cost effective solution for me given the content I purchased. Getting all of the tracks I purchased through the iTMS on CD's would probably have required I buy 500-600 CD's (a rough guess) at a cost many thousands more than the $225 - $250 I paid at the iTMS. This is because they are singles, one-off's, etc... As you know, the average CD you buy has 1 or 2 good songs on it that you like (there are, of course, exceptions). The rest is filler material. That's also why I tend to by "Best Of" or "Special Collections" when I do buy CD's (again, there are exceptions). FLAC is truly awesome. I, for one, would be quite happy to download purchased music in that format but it will never be allowed. This brings up another problem that is rarely discussed. What happens if Apple (or whatever music service you purchase your DRM'd content from) goes out of business ? It's simple. ALL of your money is gone. Down the tubes. The music industry would never allow the music service to provide permanent unlock keys, so if the computer you are using were to ever become de-authorized (and you know it will due to OS reinstalls, hard drive replacements, upgrades, etc...), your music is now wasted space. There needs to be an open-industry standard for a DRM music format. Of course Microsoft is hell-bent on that being the WMA format, but I as a consumer could never agree to that. It has to be an open, non-owned industry format that ALL of the music services use with a universal way of authentication/authorization so regardless of whether your provider goes out of business your purchased product is still useable. Let's face it, companies and thier Executive branches take the money and run all the time these days. This is an entirely feasible scenario. Now, as for the iTunes CD problem I reported. I found out what the problem is. The reason the right-channel is sounding weak to me is because there is NO musical energy above 14-15khz in the CD tracks that iTunes makes from the AAC files. This is VERY distressing for me, and if I would have known this I would have never purchased all these tracks from the iTMS. Now that I know it, I won't be purchasing any more. As you know, most stereo imaging comes from the higher frequencies, not the lower frequencies. Since they simply are not there, the imaging is getting thrown off and making it sound, to me, like the right-side channel is weak. The problem is not the AAC files. They are fine. It is the conversion process that iTunes (Mac) is using when creating the uncompressed files for the CD's. I messed around with equalization a bit, and until you get to the 12k slider there is NO change in the sound quality. Musical energy 14/15k and above simply is NOT THERE! I am truly hoping that this is a problem with the Mac version of iTunes I used to make the CD's. I am going to use the PC version to re-create a few of the CD's and see if the situation improves. I'll report my findings after I get a chance to do it. If I cannot find a solution for this, I will be making no more purchases from the iTMS. That's a shame, because it really is the best service out there. -Larry "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to besmart... > > How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You mentionedFLAC, > so you obviously know that there are compression formats out there thatare > lossless... > > As a "musician" or whatever, I can't imagine ever selling people my"craft" > in a format that is doesn't reproduce it to the accuracy it was recordedand > intended. But I guess there's a whole arguement to be made there, that if > the user can't tell the difference.. is there even one. But, then again,my

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> parents are perfectly happy listening to 128kbps mp3's, which as we all > know, sound like shite. Plus, I guess if you just want the "hits".. it's > probably an ideal solution. > > Ah well, back to sim racing. :) > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:cNp4c.32$1e1.30@lakeread06... > > All, > > > > This is a question for anyone who uses/has used the iTunes Music Storeand

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> > has created CD's from the AAC format files. > > > > First, I think the AAC format sounds just fine. No complaints really, > > though it will never match true WAV/AIFF sound quality. Thus my venture > > into FLAC. > > > > However, I also am not a huge fan of purchasing music that is tied to

one

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> > company in regards to my ability to use what I've purchased, and this > would > > go for ANY download service. > > > > With that said, I have purchased about 250 tracks from the iTunes Music > > Store since it opened shop. It was simply economically smart to do so. > The > > songs I wanted were one-off's. singles from other albums, etc... and to > > purchase them all on CD's would have cost me thousands of dollars to get > > them. > > > > Now, here's my question. > > > > I've burned all of them to CD using iTunes on my iMac. > > > > Is it just me, or is the right-channel audio weak on CD's created from > AAC's > > from the iTunes Music Store? > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

BTW Mike... My PC Speakers and Sound Card cost MORE than the rest of my system put together ($700) so as you can see sound quality is pretty important to me :) -Larry "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to besmart... > > How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You mentionedFLAC, > so you obviously know that there are compression formats out there thatare > lossless... > > As a "musician" or whatever, I can't imagine ever selling people my"craft" > in a format that is doesn't reproduce it to the accuracy it was recordedand > intended. But I guess there's a whole arguement to be made there, that if > the user can't tell the difference.. is there even one. But, then again,my

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> parents are perfectly happy listening to 128kbps mp3's, which as we all > know, sound like shite. Plus, I guess if you just want the "hits".. it's > probably an ideal solution. > > Ah well, back to sim racing. :) > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:cNp4c.32$1e1.30@lakeread06... > > All, > > > > This is a question for anyone who uses/has used the iTunes Music Storeand

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> > has created CD's from the AAC format files. > > > > First, I think the AAC format sounds just fine. No complaints really, > > though it will never match true WAV/AIFF sound quality. Thus my venture > > into FLAC. > > > > However, I also am not a huge fan of purchasing music that is tied to

one

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> > company in regards to my ability to use what I've purchased, and this > would > > go for ANY download service. > > > > With that said, I have purchased about 250 tracks from the iTunes Music > > Store since it opened shop. It was simply economically smart to do so. > The > > songs I wanted were one-off's. singles from other albums, etc... and to > > purchase them all on CD's would have cost me thousands of dollars to get > > them. > > > > Now, here's my question. > > > > I've burned all of them to CD using iTunes on my iMac. > > > > Is it just me, or is the right-channel audio weak on CD's created from > AAC's > > from the iTunes Music Store? > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:DV15c.4602$1e1.3203@lakeread06:

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> BTW Mike... > > My PC Speakers and Sound Card cost MORE than the rest of my system put > together ($700) so as you can see sound quality is pretty important to > me :) > > -Larry

I used to be very heavily into music, but I have become very disenchanted with the whole industry. The only cd I have gotten in last couple of years was a gift. I have hundreds of CD's..but, with the exception of the Live Rush in Rio cd, I can't say I have anything that is new. dave henrie

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:LT15c.4593$1e1.2067@lakeread06:

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> That's a very valid question, Mike... > > I have purchased somewhere between 225 and 250 tracks from the iTunes > Music Store. I didn't do it because I like compressed formats, and I > sure as hell didn't do it because I like having my use of something I > PAID for limited in any way, though iTunes is the most liberal of all > the DRM scheme's out there.

AFAIK EMusic sells tracks in a regular MP3. It's also cheaper and it offers wide choice. I've just discovered it few days ago and now I'm trying to find where's the catch, but it looks there's no catch (aside that they're apparently dealing mostly with small recording labels, thus it may not be attractive choice for those who want to support RIAA ;>) Alex.

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> writes: > I used to be very heavily into music, but I have become very >disenchanted with the whole industry. The only cd I have gotten in last >couple of years was a gift. I have hundreds of CD's..but, with the >exception of the Live Rush in Rio cd, I can't say I have anything that is >new. I have Rush in Rio on DVD...<g> But, I think the only CD I've bought recently(besides a couple of Miles Davis CDs) is Audioslave. I bought Rush - Vapor Trails early last year. Other than that, I haven't bothered to buy CDs - they're just not worth it to me. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

EldredP wrote: > But, I think the only CD I've bought > recently(besides a couple of Miles Davis CDs) is Audioslave. Audioslave? Gee Eldred, you're an even cooler dude than I thought ;) >Other than that, I haven't bothered to buy CDs - > they're just not worth it to me. Wot, not even blank ones..? ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -22)

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:11:41 -0500, "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to be smart... > >How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You mentioned FLAC, >so you obviously know that there are compression formats out there that are >lossless... There are? Even uncompressed CD audio isn't lossless. Jason

I've been an e-music subscriber for about 8 months. There' s no big catch, aside from the fact that they only carry independent and otherwise non-mainstream labels. If that jives with your musical tastes, you may actually find that to be a plus (as I do). In particular, if you're a jazz or blues fan, the offerings are great. They also have a lot of high quality independent labels putting out everything from electronica to surf punk.. You may be interested to know that their terms of service changed dramatically last November; they used to offer unlimited downloads of unrestricted mp3 files (in LAME alt_present_standard VBR format) for a very low monthly fee ($15 or so). They actually offered that deal for several years, but it finally caught up with them. Many long time members were able to download thousands of full CD's worth of music under that plan, all for a very small price (if you d/l'd over 2000 tracks per month, they would tell you to slow down you pace a bit, but many subscribers did, indeed, d/l about 2000 tracks per month each month....which works out to less than 1 cent per track) . Well, reality did come knocking eventually, and as of November, the same $14.95 buys you only 65 tracks per month. For a bit more, you can get a 90 track per month plan. As you note, this still represents a bargain when compared to the alternatives (though it feels like highway robbery to anyone who made the transition from their unlimited plan) -- particulary when you consider that their downloads are in non-proprietary (and fairly high quality) mp3 format. Another place to look at is www.allofmp3.com, a Russian site that does, indeed, offer lossless downloading of some files. They also permit "on the fly" encoding where you select the bit rate and file format just prior to download. Their prices are much lower than any of their competitors, but there is still a good deal of debate over the issue of just how legal and legitimate the service is for users outside of Russia. You can find more details here: http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3info.htm. itazura "alexti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:LT15c.4593$1e1.2067@lakeread06: > > > That's a very valid question, Mike... > > > > I have purchased somewhere between 225 and 250 tracks from the iTunes > > Music Store. I didn't do it because I like compressed formats, and I > > sure as hell didn't do it because I like having my use of something I > > PAID for limited in any way, though iTunes is the most liberal of all > > the DRM scheme's out there. > AFAIK EMusic sells tracks in a regular MP3. It's also cheaper and it > offers wide choice. I've just discovered it few days ago and now I'm > trying to find where's the catch, but it looks there's no catch > (aside that they're apparently dealing mostly with small recording > labels, thus it may not be attractive choice for those who want to > support RIAA ;>) > > Alex.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:56:40 -0500, SS wrote: > track) . Well, reality did come knocking eventually, and as of November, > the same $14.95 buys you only 65 tracks per month. For a bit more, you can > get a 90 track per month plan. As you note, this still represents a bargain 90 tracks a month? In today's music "industry", I'll be hard pressed to find one or two new releases within four weeks that seem interesting enough to purchase them. As for 2,000 tracks a month... maybe some people should take up sticking bugs on pins instead of collecting "tracks" ;-) cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

> 90 tracks a month? In today's music "industry", I'll be hard pressed > to find one or two new releases within four weeks that seem > interesting enough to purchase them. As for 2,000 tracks a > month... maybe some people should take up sticking bugs on pins > instead of collecting "tracks" ;-) Yeah, bugs on pins would be nice, too. When e-music had their unlimited offer going, a frenzied collecting mentality did kick in for many subscribers. I think the prevailing thought went something like this: "this deal is way too good to be true and it can't last long -- so I'd better go ahead and horde anything and everything that looks remotely interesting NOW while I still can!" The most amazing thing is that it lasted as long as it did (well, that and the fact that they aren't bankrupt yet). itazura

Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c33ieo$idq$[email hidden]: >> But, I think the only CD I've bought >> recently(besides a couple of Miles Davis CDs) is Audioslave. > > Audioslave? Gee Eldred, you're an even cooler dude than I thought > ;) Audioslave rocks! But I must say I'm sad to see the cynicism and jaded views here on music. I guess I'm still young enough to be passionate about music. ;-) -- Ped Xing GPLRank -31.657 "A good racing driver doesn't really look like he's going that fast; but in fact it's a clean, smooth, progressive performance that supplies the real speed." -Sir Jackie Stewart

Ped Xing <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Xns94ADBAA646767pedx1nglycoscom@ 140.99.99.130: > Audioslave rocks! > > But I must say I'm sad to see the cynicism and jaded views here on > music. I guess I'm still young enough to be passionate about music. ;-) > There was a statement last summer that pretty much sealed the deal for me. Somebody official was asking why the soundtrack to the Spiderman movie cost more than the DVD. I'll still pickup a rare title or two...but not much else. dave henrie

I'm glad to hear confirmation that there's no catch. I haven't checked their offerings in mainstream music, but in the carrying hard to get albums they're pretty good. They have about half of what I'd like to buy, and what they don't have are more often than not some obscure bands that can only be obtained my mail order (well, some of them are hard to get even by mail order). Price-wise, I have no problem with their current rates (40 songs per month for 10USD), they're saying that they share it 50/50 with label and artists and to me the price and the whole deal sound fair. I'm not looking for a better deal, paying money to artists, independent labels and service providers like eMusic seems to be in our best interests. In the end many of those musician have a day jobs unrelated to music, which is part of the problem, because they often don't bother to publish they work, which makes it really hard to get :( But I'm glad not to pay to the music stores, big labels and RIAA who add nothing to the quality of the product :) Alex. "SS" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> I've been an e-music subscriber for about 8 months. There' s no big > catch, aside from the fact that they only carry independent and > otherwise non-mainstream labels. If that jives with your musical > tastes, you may actually find that to be a plus (as I do). In > particular, if you're a jazz or blues fan, the offerings are great. > They also have a lot of high quality independent labels putting out > everything from electronica to surf punk.. > > You may be interested to know that their terms of service changed > dramatically last November; they used to offer unlimited downloads of > unrestricted mp3 files (in LAME alt_present_standard VBR format) for a > very low monthly fee ($15 or so). They actually offered that deal for > several years, but it finally caught up with them. Many long time > members were able to download thousands of full CD's worth of music > under that plan, all for a very small price (if you d/l'd over 2000 > tracks per month, they would tell you to slow down you pace a bit, but > many subscribers did, indeed, d/l about 2000 tracks per month each > month....which works out to less than 1 cent per track) . Well, > reality did come knocking eventually, and as of November, the same > $14.95 buys you only 65 tracks per month. For a bit more, you can get > a 90 track per month plan. As you note, this still represents a > bargain when compared to the alternatives (though it feels like highway > robbery to anyone who made the transition from their unlimited plan) -- > particulary when you consider that their downloads are in > non-proprietary (and fairly high quality) mp3 format. > ... > itazura

All of my stuff is pretty old too. I think the newest CD I have is a Wallflowers CD. Today's music, for the most part, just doesn't trip my trigger. Oddly, I remember my parents saying the same thing at my age LOL -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:DV15c.4602$1e1.3203@lakeread06: > > > BTW Mike... > > > > My PC Speakers and Sound Card cost MORE than the rest of my system put > > together ($700) so as you can see sound quality is pretty important to > > me :) > > > > -Larry > > I used to be very heavily into music, but I have become very > disenchanted with the whole industry. The only cd I have gotten in last > couple of years was a gift. I have hundreds of CD's..but, with the > exception of the Live Rush in Rio cd, I can't say I have anything that is > new. > > dave henrie

I'm still very passionate about music, just not todays music under todays marketing situation. -Larry "Ped Xing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:c33ieo$idq$[email hidden]: > > >> But, I think the only CD I've bought > >> recently(besides a couple of Miles Davis CDs) is Audioslave. > > > > Audioslave? Gee Eldred, you're an even cooler dude than I thought > > ;) > > Audioslave rocks! > > But I must say I'm sad to see the cynicism and jaded views here on > music. I guess I'm still young enough to be passionate about music. ;-) > > -- > Ped Xing > GPLRank -31.657 > > "A good racing driver doesn't really look like he's going that fast; but > in fact it's a clean, smooth, progressive performance that supplies the > real speed." -Sir Jackie Stewart

The last CD I bought, which was about 2 weeks ago, was Chris Issaak's "Heart Shaped World". It's old :) -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ped Xing <[email hidden]> wrote innews:Xns94ADBAA646767pedx1nglycoscom@

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> 140.99.99.130: > > > Audioslave rocks! > > > > But I must say I'm sad to see the cynicism and jaded views here on > > music. I guess I'm still young enough to be passionate about music. ;-) > > > > There was a statement last summer that pretty much sealed the deal for > me. Somebody official was asking why the soundtrack to the Spiderman

movie > cost more than the DVD. > I'll still pickup a rare title or two...but not much else. > > dave henrie

Oh, my. Here we go :) -Larry "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:11:41 -0500, "Mike Beauchamp" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > Even uncompressed CD audio isn't lossless. > > Jason

Oh, my. Here we go :) -Larry > On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:11:41 -0500, "Mike Beauchamp" > Even uncompressed CD audio isn't lossless. > Jason

BTW.... I tried re-burning the AAC files in the PC version of iTunes. The upper frequencies are still _very_ weak compared to the original AAC, which is fine. I wish there was a way to convert directly to MP3 but they won't allow that. I pretty much have all the singles in 'protected' format that I care to buy. I think that's it for me. Dammit. -Larry "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9%t5c.7366$1e1.4859@lakeread06...

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> All of my stuff is pretty old too. > > I think the newest CD I have is a Wallflowers CD. > > Today's music, for the most part, just doesn't trip my trigger. > > Oddly, I remember my parents saying the same thing at my age LOL > > -Larry > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:DV15c.4602$1e1.3203@lakeread06: > > > > > BTW Mike... > > > > > > My PC Speakers and Sound Card cost MORE than the rest of my system put > > > together ($700) so as you can see sound quality is pretty important to > > > me :) > > > > > > -Larry > > > > I used to be very heavily into music, but I have become very > > disenchanted with the whole industry. The only cd I have gotten in last > > couple of years was a gift. I have hundreds of CD's..but, with the > > exception of the Live Rush in Rio cd, I can't say I have anything that

is > > new. > > > > dave henrie > >

> Even uncompressed CD audio isn't lossless. You're trying to bring up an arguement for no reason. When I'm talking about "lossless", i'm talking in respect to the source, which is a CD. Sure a CD is lossy if your source is the original reels, masters, or DVD-A or something. But it was painfully obvious that I was talking about a CD as the source. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:11:41 -0500, "Mike Beauchamp" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Just a question about the whole iTunes thing, since you seem to besmart... > > > >How do you feel paying for a lossy version of something? You mentionedFLAC, > >so you obviously know that there are compression formats out there thatare

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> >lossless... > > There are? > > Even uncompressed CD audio isn't lossless. > > Jason

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:10:03 -0500, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Oh, my. Here we go :) Nah, not trolling, and if I were I think people here are smart enough to not take the bait. :) Sometime I'll post pics of my studio to put my audio-snobbery in perspective. I've spent quite a bit of time searching out rare analog gear and newer high-rate digital stuff that minimizes digital aliasing (all of my digital gear does internal processing at either 24 or 32 bits, which still isn't good enough, but I can deal). Trust me, when you run a nice fat analog synthesizer or tube amp through a digital/audio converter even a non-hifi snob can hear the difference in tone. :) Jason

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:17:45 -0600, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > There was a statement last summer that pretty much sealed the deal for >me. Somebody official was asking why the soundtrack to the Spiderman movie >cost more than the DVD. I believe the technical term is "price fixing". Of course, things would be better if people would sue the RIAA and actually follow through with it instead of settling for money. I mean, what was the point of the most recent class-action lawsuit? Everyone was mailed $13, which isn't even enough to buy a CD, and they're trying to encourage you to give it back to them anyway. "Here have $13 to spend on our products." Barely makes up for how much CD's are marked up above cost. Someone needs to actually sue and not accept any settlement money so these greedy fuckers have to face the long arm of anti-trust law. I suspect it's not going to happen in my lifetime. Thank god for independent labels and distributors. Jason

Oh yeah man, 16bit CD's are pretty lame in my opinion, especially how some of them get mastered for CD's. Some can still sound pretty good, even with the limits of frequency response and sampling of a CD. I remember seeing a post somewhere about a recent Rush CD that was full of clipping because it was mastered too loud. Pretty stupid if you ask me.. I'm a big fan of Neil Young, and he's always spoken out against CD's claiming the same thing you and I are talking about.. and has been very reluctant to release a lot of his stuff that was originally on vinyl on to CD. Just this year, 5 albums which werent' available on CD came out with some verrry well done remastering and HDCD compatibility (something I dont have equipment to listen to). His new album is coming out on DVD audio as well.. I'm sure if he knew about music being sold to the consumer as compressed mp3, or whatever the hell apple's format is.. he'd probably have something to say :) Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:10:03 -0500, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Oh, my. Here we go :) > > Nah, not trolling, and if I were I think people here are smart enough > to not take the bait. :) > > Sometime I'll post pics of my studio to put my audio-snobbery in > perspective. I've spent quite a bit of time searching out rare analog > gear and newer high-rate digital stuff that minimizes digital aliasing > (all of my digital gear does internal processing at either 24 or 32 > bits, which still isn't good enough, but I can deal). Trust me, when > you run a nice fat analog synthesizer or tube amp through a > digital/audio converter even a non-hifi snob can hear the difference > in tone. :) > > Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes:

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>Sometime I'll post pics of my studio to put my audio-snobbery in >perspective. I've spent quite a bit of time searching out rare analog >gear and newer high-rate digital stuff that minimizes digital aliasing >(all of my digital gear does internal processing at either 24 or 32 >bits, which still isn't good enough, but I can deal). Trust me, when >you run a nice fat analog synthesizer or tube amp through a >digital/audio converter even a non-hifi snob can hear the difference >in tone. :)

Hey Jason - I'd be interested in seeing the pics. I need to figure out how to get all my stuff so I can record through the computer. I assume that's easier(and easier to work with) than using outboard gear? I have a DA-20 that I put in my rack, but I haven't connected it yet. I really need to get my but in gear to work on my CD... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

In article <9%t5c.7366$1e1.4859@lakeread06>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >Today's music, for the most part, just doesn't trip my trigger. I like it, but not enough to go buy the CD. The problem is, there are usually only 1 or 2 songs off the CD that I like. One song is not going to get me to part with $14 or more... I also like stuff like Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, and Mudvayne. I have a very...eclectic music collection. :-) >Oddly, I remember my parents saying the same thing at my age LOL hehe Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

In article <c33ieo$idq$[email hidden]>, Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> writes: >Audioslave? Gee Eldred, you're an even cooler dude than I thought ;) Thankyouverymuch...<g> >>Other than that, I haven't bothered to buy CDs - >> they're just not worth it to me. > >Wot, not even blank ones..? ;) Not in a while... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

On 21 Mar 2004 22:14:05 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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> >Hey Jason - >I'd be interested in seeing the pics. I need to figure out how to get all my >stuff so I can record through the computer. I assume that's easier(and easier >to work with) than using outboard gear? I have a DA-20 that I put in my rack, >but I haven't connected it yet. I really need to get my but in gear to work on >my CD...

What kind of gear do you have? If you're recording stuff straight to the DA-20 (that's a DAT recorder right?) then you could find a cheap-ish soundcard with spdif inputs and just dump it digitally into the PC and get something like Cubase SX to mix it down. What I would probably do, is just get an analog or digital mixer and record/mix everything on the pc, then dump it out to DAT on the DA-20 once it's mixed/mastered for sending off to labels/cd-pressing/etc. I guess it depends on what you're using DAT for (I have to admit I've never worked with it). Right now my studio is setup pretty simply, altho I'm thinking about replacing my analog Behringer mixer with an Event EZBus so I can dump everything straight to digital instead of having to use a shitty soundcard A/D converter. My setup is pretty simple: All of the audio inputs and outputs on my gear go into a couple Behringer Ultrapatch Pro 2000 patchbays so I can easily patch signals around. There's a tiny bit of bleed-through between adjacent ports on that model and it's unbalanced, but they also cost $30 and are easy to configure. All of my MIDI gear goes into an Edirol UM-880 8x8 USB midi patchbay for similar reasons (being able to control any of the gear via any of my other gear, plus being able to do patch editing/storage from the PC). From one of the ultrapatch audio patchbays, I run 10 ports into a $50 Behringer UB 1002 mixer (4 balanced stereo ins, 2 mono/xlr balanced stereo ins) and send the main outs on that through a balanced Y-cable (1/4" stereo pair to 1/8" phono) and into the line-in on my soundcard for A/D conversion with whatever software I'm currently using. I'm still wiring up the MIDI stuff, I'll try to post pictures when that's done. Overall, I'm actually moving in the opposite direction from most people now who seem to be getting into the "do everything on the computer" aspect. I started recording in the late 80's/early 90's doing everyting based around a computer and basically in the last few years I've started switching everything to outboard gear because IMHO it's easier to work with for creative reasons (plus a dedicated DSP chip in a piece of hardware still sounds better 9 times out of 10). I mean, I guess I just don't get inspired staring at a PC screen all day anymore. I still use a PC for doing the basic recording/editing/mixing but I typically try to have everything more or less ready to mix before it gets to my PC, give or take some equalization. Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes:

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>What kind of gear do you have? If you're recording stuff straight to >the DA-20 (that's a DAT recorder right?) then you could find a >cheap-ish soundcard with spdif inputs and just dump it digitally into >the PC and get something like Cubase SX to mix it down. What I would >probably do, is just get an analog or digital mixer and record/mix >everything on the pc, then dump it out to DAT on the DA-20 once it's >mixed/mastered for sending off to labels/cd-pressing/etc. I guess it >depends on what you're using DAT for (I have to admit I've never >worked with it).

Besides the DAT(which I've had for a while but never used), I have a computer with an Audigy2 interface. I also borrowed an Alessis 1622 mixer from a friend to connect my keys, tone modules, and sampler. I was looking at recording on the PC because I thought that editing and changing ideas around would be easier. Maybe I'm just not understanding the process, so I don't know which way to go. I wanted to use the 1622 for my midi/keyboard rig - I have 8 different sound sources, 9 if I fix the Mirage. I also want to be able to record guitar, bass, and acoustic drums. One of these days I'll actually get my butt in gear and start recording. I should just start recording, no matter how it sounds, just for the practice and experience. As of now, my equipment is just collecting dust. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

On 23 Mar 2004 02:33:35 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I wanted to use the 1622 for my midi/keyboard rig - I have 8 different sound >sources, 9 if I fix the Mirage. I also want to be able to record guitar, bass, >and acoustic drums. One of these days I'll actually get my butt in gear and >start recording. I should just start recording, no matter how it sounds, just >for the practice and experience. As of now, my equipment is just collecting >dust. The Ensoniq Mirage is awesome and worth fixing. Been looking for one in nice shape myself (it has a niiiice analog filter). The easiest setup imho would be to just run the analog outputs on the mixer through a Y-cable and into the audio in on the soundcard. From there you can do all of your mixing/mastering. Software-wise, I'm not really sure what to recommend as I'm still using 10-15 year old software for most things. Cubase SL is $300 which is a bit much (OTOH, SX is ~$700) but it seems pretty nice (debating getting it myself since I'm due an upgrade). It will also let you synch up your MIDI gear to any audio tracks you're working with. IIRC it comes with a decent bundle of studio effects and mastering tools as well. Right now my PC side of things is pretty sparse and outdated (aside from synth editing software). Basically I record into an old copy of Sound Forge, doing as much EQ'ing/compression/spatialization/etc as I can in my outboard gear, and then use Sonic Foundry Noise Reduction to take out any low level noise as cleanly as I can (surprisingly I'm not getting much line noise). I edit the tracks down to remove the silence and make sure the track begins/ends at 0db to eliminate digital popping. From there I dump it into a highly antiquated copy of Digital Orchesrator Pro, which is fairly low-tech but really easy to work with. Just file--->import--->wav and then everything is copy/paste/move to get all the tracks lined up/etc. I mix down from there into a single wav file, and finish the mastering in Sound Forge, typically using Steinberg Free Filter to sort out the equalization and then using the built-in Sound Forge normalization/compression to get the levels where I want them. Then straight to CD. Jason