Cheating in Off Line Racing

Just curious, why is it that some people who make out they are into sim racing, insist on cheating? I am at present runnng in an off-line league for ICR2, and thankfully that hasn't occured in this league as yet, but there must be some way to deter, or eradicate cheating in leagues. I used to be involved in a local off-line league here in Australia, just between six guys, who were all supposed to be friends, but still two of the supposed friends were caught out cheating. If it happens between friends, what must it be like in the sim world of off-line racing. That episode put me off off-line racing for about three years, and just recently i decided to bite the bullet and try another off-line league. So far, so good!! As an example, one guy i used to race against off-line, could always beat me, but every time we connected by modem, i could beat him easily. Maybe that's a thought, anyone getting constantly beaten by a driver in an off-line league, distance permitting, offer them a modem race to see how they fare... Unfortunately i am not smart enough to come up with a program that can somehow check the validity of results from racing sims, but surely someone out there could. I feel a reasonable deterrent, if there was proof of cheating from a given indvidual, would be to post their name on RAS.. Let the world of sim racers know who the morons are who ruin it for the rest of us sim racers who do it legally..... Just wondering what others think about this?? Cheers, Ron Ayton Southern Racing

For the finer examples of humanity the #1 reason to not cheat is because it renders the entire exercise a complete waist of time. To others who wish to remain in sim racing circles a major consideration is that if they are caught then their reputation is basically stuffed and drivers in the know would shy away from any league that allowed them to participate. This leaves the odd stray bozo who may drop into a league, have no idea, get caught easily and then just disappear into oblivion. Not a great deal to worry about me thinks if your in a major league run by experienced directors and filled with eagle eyed drivers :))))

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> Just curious, why is it that some people who make out they are into sim > racing, insist on cheating? I am at present runnng in an off-line > league for ICR2, and thankfully that hasn't occured in this league as > yet, but there must be some way to deter, or eradicate cheating in > leagues. > I used to be involved in a local off-line league here in Australia, > just between six guys, who were all supposed to be friends, but still > two of the supposed friends were caught out cheating. If it happens > between friends, what must it be like in the sim world of off-line > racing. That episode put me off off-line racing for about three years, > and just recently i decided to bite the bullet and try another off-line > league. So far, so good!! > As an example, one guy i used to race against off-line, could always > beat me, but every time we connected by modem, i could beat him easily. > Maybe that's a thought, anyone getting constantly beaten by a driver > in an off-line league, distance permitting, offer them a modem race to > see how they fare... > Unfortunately i am not smart enough to come up with a program that can > somehow check the validity of results from racing sims, but surely > someone out there could. I feel a reasonable deterrent, if there was > proof of cheating from a given indvidual, would be to post their name > on RAS.. Let the world of sim racers know who the morons are who > ruin it for the rest of us sim racers who do it legally..... > Just wondering what others think about this?? > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Southern Racing

I agree with your comments to a certain extent Sammy, but sadly, untill a racing sim programmer comes up with a foolprooth way of enabling cheat free off line racing, we will just have to live with the precautions the various off line leagues use. I for another, find it distressing, to have to go to the bother of proving what i did in an offline race to be factual, rather than fictional, but the league organisers have a duty to perform to the rest of the drivers in their league. I think, as Byron told me, that the morons who do ruin it for the true sim racer, soon get weeded out. They obviously do not have their heart in racing sims, and will soon find something else to bluff their way through. The genuine sim racer can be easily found by the ammount of enthusiam they show for their sport. The constant winners in any league are always more than willing to lend a bit of their expertise to any one who asks for a bit of help, if they can't, or won't help you, i would then begin to suspect their winning style. You can't expect them to offer up their hard worked out setups, but advice is usually freely given, and given with the same enthusiam that they show to their sim racing. I guess they are the key words, enthusiam and love of the sport. The morons who cheat, when you talk to them, it's usually just about "how good i am" or "how many races i have won", where the enthusiast talks about, "what a great time i am having". Anyway, that's just a few of my thoughts on the subject....... Cheers, Ron

Ron, I simpathize with you and want you to know that the software exists to prevent most cheating. The bad news it doesn't exist for ICR2. RaceSet and RaceSet2 were designed to do 2 things. 1) Prevent as much cheating as possible and 2) put the enjoyment back into offline racing for the directors. I have thought about making RaceSet compatible with ICR2 but since I don't drive IndyCars, I don't have much motivation. There is a certain degree of cheating that we can never prevent because the simulator itself allows cheating and there is a small percentage of drivers out there who are smart enough and criminally minded enough to successfully bypass the software. To be fair, I do recognize those drivers who are curious only to the point of recognizing a challenge and meeting it by bypassing the system. These do not use what they know as a means to cheat, but as a means to help producers like me to make the system even better. David Martin Producer of RaceSet

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> Just curious, why is it that some people who make out they are into sim > racing, insist on cheating? I am at present runnng in an off-line > league for ICR2, and thankfully that hasn't occured in this league as > yet, but there must be some way to deter, or eradicate cheating in > leagues. > I used to be involved in a local off-line league here in Australia, > just between six guys, who were all supposed to be friends, but still > two of the supposed friends were caught out cheating. If it happens > between friends, what must it be like in the sim world of off-line > racing. That episode put me off off-line racing for about three years, > and just recently i decided to bite the bullet and try another off-line > league. So far, so good!! > As an example, one guy i used to race against off-line, could always > beat me, but every time we connected by modem, i could beat him easily. > Maybe that's a thought, anyone getting constantly beaten by a driver > in an off-line league, distance permitting, offer them a modem race to > see how they fare... > Unfortunately i am not smart enough to come up with a program that can > somehow check the validity of results from racing sims, but surely > someone out there could. I feel a reasonable deterrent, if there was > proof of cheating from a given indvidual, would be to post their name > on RAS.. Let the world of sim racers know who the morons are who > ruin it for the rest of us sim racers who do it legally..... > Just wondering what others think about this?? > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Southern Racing

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I have an example of someone I know that I suspected was cheating. He was very very enthusiastic and seemed to be having a great time. The most suspicious thing about him was that he was so good. Anyway, the moment we began using RaceSet to monitor the races, he quit. Even though I never had any proof that he was cheating, I accept that as an indirect confession. He realized that if his performance dropped so drastically after the use of RaceSet, everyone would suspect he was cheating. A part of me really wishes he would come back and prove himself to be a fair competitor, but I doubt that will ever happen. David Martin Producer of RaceSet http://ivl.card.unc.edu/RACESET/RACESET.HTM

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> I agree with your comments to a certain extent Sammy, but sadly, untill > a racing sim programmer comes up with a foolprooth way of enabling > cheat free off line racing, we will just have to live with the > precautions the various off line leagues use. > I for another, find it distressing, to have to go to the bother of > proving what i did in an offline race to be factual, rather than > fictional, but the league organisers have a duty to perform to the rest > of the drivers in their league. > I think, as Byron told me, that the morons who do ruin it for the true > sim racer, soon get weeded out. They obviously do not have their > heart in racing sims, and will soon find something else to bluff their > way through. > The genuine sim racer can be easily found by the ammount of enthusiam > they show for their sport. The constant winners in any league are > always more than willing to lend a bit of their expertise to any one > who asks for a bit of help, if they can't, or won't help you, i would > then begin to suspect their winning style. You can't expect them to > offer up their hard worked out setups, but advice is usually freely > given, and given with the same enthusiam that they show to their sim > racing. I guess they are the key words, enthusiam and love of the > sport. > The morons who cheat, when you talk to them, it's usually just about > "how good i am" or "how many races i have won", where the enthusiast > talks about, "what a great time i am having". > Anyway, that's just a few of my thoughts on the subject....... > Cheers, > Ron

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Sighh, really wish the League I run in would use the racesets. Suspect a lot of things would change then!!!! I helped someone test them over winter and they worked great but alas not enough drivers were interested in joining. Wonder why? > I have an example of someone I know that I suspected was cheating. He was > very very enthusiastic and seemed to be having a great time. The most > suspicious thing about him was that he was so good. Anyway, the moment we > began using RaceSet to monitor the races, he quit. -- Rich Koehler "Once you've pulled the pin, Mister Hand Grenade is no longer your friend..." vcard.vcf < 1K Download

Perhaps there are more drivers cheating than we think. Outside of IVGA, which has switched over to Drag Racing ( :-( ), I know of only 2 leagues that use RaceSet. SSCRA with Chris Keenan and IVL with 'yours truely'. SSCRA still runs N1. IVL runs only N2 and does not use anything but CD distributed tracks. My suggestion is join a league that uses RaceSet. No, I'm not biased at all. :-) What would be really great is if we could get 50-60 drivers competing for 42 starting spots at every race in a 31 race season. IVL has both Cup and GN length races. SSCRA has short races (25-50 laps). David

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> Sighh, really wish the League I run in would > use the racesets. Suspect a lot of things would > change then!!!! I helped someone test them over > winter and they worked great but alas not enough > drivers were interested in joining. Wonder why? > > I have an example of someone I know that I suspected was cheating. He was > > very very enthusiastic and seemed to be having a great time. The most > > suspicious thing about him was that he was so good. Anyway, the moment we > > began using RaceSet to monitor the races, he quit. > -- > Rich Koehler > "Once you've pulled the pin, > Mister Hand Grenade is no > longer your friend..." > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: vcard.vcf > Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard > Encoding: 7bit > Description: Card for Koehler Jr., Richard G.

How do I get in touch with the IVL? Gary -- Remove junk from E-mail address to reply.

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>Perhaps there are more drivers cheating than we think. Outside of IVGA, >which has switched over to Drag Racing ( :-( ), I know of only 2 leagues >that use RaceSet. SSCRA with Chris Keenan and IVL with 'yours truely'. >SSCRA still runs N1. >IVL runs only N2 and does not use anything but CD distributed tracks. >My suggestion is join a league that uses RaceSet. No, I'm not biased at >all. :-) What would be really great is if we could get 50-60 drivers >competing for 42 starting spots at every race in a 31 race season. IVL >has both Cup and GN length races. SSCRA has short races (25-50 laps). >David

There is one more league that is using Raceset- Hooterville Raceway Park. The league also requires a bone-stock install of N2, and has 2 divisions. I don't have the URL handy, but there is a link at http://members.xoom.com/HoosierMS/ Scott Moore

IVL is at http://ivl.card.unc.edu > How do I get in touch with the IVL? > Gary > -- > Remove junk from E-mail address to reply.

Dennis Guyer at Hooterville is not planning on using the latest version of RaceSet2. He and his drivers are dissatisfied with the license agreement and have told me that they will not be using it. It's a shame though, he was my primary test contact. There was no formal beta version of the software, but Dennis was instrumental in helping to flush many of the bugs found in version 2.0. When the dust settled he could not get past the license agreement which he claimed was unfair. David

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> >Perhaps there are more drivers cheating than we think. Outside of IVGA, > >which has switched over to Drag Racing ( :-( ), I know of only 2 leagues > >that use RaceSet. SSCRA with Chris Keenan and IVL with 'yours truely'. > >SSCRA still runs N1. > >IVL runs only N2 and does not use anything but CD distributed tracks. > >My suggestion is join a league that uses RaceSet. No, I'm not biased at > >all. :-) What would be really great is if we could get 50-60 drivers > >competing for 42 starting spots at every race in a 31 race season. IVL > >has both Cup and GN length races. SSCRA has short races (25-50 laps). > >David > There is one more league that is using Raceset- Hooterville Raceway Park. > The league also requires a bone-stock install of N2, and has 2 divisions. I > don't have the URL handy, but there is a link at > http://members.xoom.com/HoosierMS/ > Scott Moore