Is there a demo for it ???
Is Gran Turismo a real sim? Damage model debate
A question about a Gran Turismo demo became a long argument after reviewer Randy Magruder claimed GT's physics outclassed every PC sim except GPL. Critics said the lack of damage lets players use walls and cars, making it closer to arcade, and that its gamepad controls and short races fell short. Randy argued that physics feel matters more than damage, and neither side moved.
Automated summary.
>Is there a demo for it ???
I think there may have been one on a Sony underground CD. Of course, it
was for PSX only. Buy a PSX, if only for this game; you won't be sorry.
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Buy a PSX, if only for this game; you won't be sorry.
R:
You got to be kidding me. Buy a psx the game and a wheel and it's worth it?
Don't even tell me to race with a pad.
So GT is that much better than N2, MTM 2 and TOCA 1? That I'd have to buy a
whole new system just to race this game (on a low rez tv no doubt). What
makes GT that much better than the three I listed above? The 3 represent
different styles of racing to cover the spectrum of racing models well.
Interested in this. Thanks in advance.
QBM
Some people can't distinguish between a game and an experience. Those
who can always prefer the experience. N2 is an experience, anything on
a Playstation is just a game.
David Martin
BH wrote
Gran Turismo is only a game. Check out the reviews and preview all around
the Internet. They are saying great thing about it, but nobody wanted to
compare it to racing simulators, and tell it's the "best racing game ever
made".
It can be compared to MTM2 and TOCA (since they are also games) but not to
Nascar2, Gp2, F1RS, Icr2 or GPLegends. Those are racing simulators.
But what I like about GT is that hard-core AND arcade racers will enjoy it.
It is a melting pot of everything you find these days.
- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
Haven't actually PLAYED Gran Turismo, though, have you? If you had you might
feel differently. I find it MORE of an "experience" than N2 because of sarting
with a limited budget, buying used real-world cars that I see on car lots every
day and fixing them up to win money and buy better and better cars. Depends on
how you define "experience" I suppose, but I spend more time at the office
planning my next GT upgrade than I ever did thinking about N2. Maybe it's not
for you, but your conclusion above is overbroad.
Buy the sony dual analog pad instead of a wheel !!! It kicks ass !! I had a
psx but i sold it to my brother before grand turismo was out. I told him to
buy it & let me play :)
I'd have to disagree. Gran Turismo is a great experience.
>Some people can't distinguish between a game and an experience. Those
>who can always prefer the experience. N2 is an experience, anything on
>a Playstation is just a game.
>David Martin
>You got to be kidding me. Buy a psx the game and a wheel and it's worth it?
>Don't even tell me to race with a pad.
Okay, I won't. But yes, its worth it. I just got a note from a
friend who is pretty well respected as a *** PC simmer here on
the group and she just bought a used Playstation, a Mad Catz and Gran
Turismo and claims that the physics model is "the best I've seen,
except for GPL's. It's way better than anything else. It makes F1RS,
CPR, MTM2, ICR2, N2 seem crude by comparison". She goes on, but that
right there says quite a bit, at least as far as the better sims like
F1RS and the Papy sims are concerned.
Well, its as deep as N2 in many ways, though the races are much
shorter, and in depth it destroys MTM2 and TOCA1. The bottom line is,
if you want to drive a wide variety of cars with a fantastic physics
model and you want to be able to upgrade them setting by setting,
piece by piece, GT Is it.
My suggestion is that you go to Blockbuster, rent a Playstation and
Gran Turismo (although I'm not sure what you can do about analog
controllers - not sure you can rent those at all), and see for
yourself. no one I know who has seen it, no matter how *** they
are with PC sims, has failed to be blown away by GT.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Quoted text (10 lines)
>BH wrote >>So GT is that much better than N2, MTM 2 and TOCA 1? That I'd have to buy a >>whole new system just to race this game (on a low rez tv no doubt). What >>makes GT that much better than the three I listed above? The 3 represent >>different styles of racing to cover the spectrum of racing models well. >Gran Turismo is only a game. Check out the reviews and preview all around >the Internet. They are saying great thing about it, but nobody wanted to >compare it to racing simulators, and tell it's the "best racing game ever >made".Let me guess. You've never driven Gran Turismo.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
If your willing to take this time replying back to me I'll find somebody
with GT and try it out. My uncle sounds like a good place to start.
You better be right or I'm coming back with a whooping stick!!! :)
QBM
...or better yet, rent it. =)
> If your willing to take this time replying back to me I'll find somebody
> with GT and try it out. My uncle sounds like a good place to start.
> You better be right or I'm coming back with a whooping stick!!! :)
> QBM
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I'm not big on comparing new products to older releases, I prefer to judge them on
their own merits. My brother has a PSX system,and he invited me over to try out
Gran Turismo. We ran a few two-player races (limited car and track selection) and
I must say we had a side-splitting blast. Even watching the replays was fun. I'd
recommend racing the old 427 'Vettes against each other (though I'm mostly a Ford
fan). The loose suspension really made for a fender-banging, sliding, wild
experience. I wouldn't say it's the greatest or anything, but it sure is a lot of
fun. Even with the gamepads we were using. They seem to have the interface worked
out very well for gamepad play; which is more than I can say for any of the other
racing titles he's had.
Tony Long
> >Some people can't distinguish between a game and an experience. Those
> >who can always prefer the experience. N2 is an experience, anything on
> >a Playstation is just a game.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>>Gran Turismo is only a game. Check out the reviews and preview all around >>the Internet. They are saying great thing about it, but nobody wanted to >>compare it to racing simulators, and tell it's the "best racing game ever >>made". >I'll happily compare it to any racing simulator you care to mention. >I'd agree with Alison in that its not quite as good as GPL, but its >easily more sophisticated than any other PC sim I've seen.The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran Tourismo.
The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for steering.
Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to control
the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste of
time. You had might as well use the game pads.
Shame about the pathetic Arcade car control, as this is one hell of a fun Game!
Maybe someone will do PC version with proper analog control! Please!!!!
--
____________________________________________________________
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>friend who is pretty well respected as a *** PC simmer here on
>the group and she just bought a used Playstation, a Mad Catz and Gran
>Turismo and claims that the physics model is "the best I've seen,
>except for GPL's. It's way better than anything else. It makes F1RS,
>CPR, MTM2, ICR2, N2 seem crude by comparison". She goes on, but that
>right there says quite a bit, at least as far as the better sims like
It says a lot about what she doesn't know, like that F1 cars don't
behave like street legal cars (how else could she compare GT to a F1
or Cart game?), and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.
In Gran Turismo they don't, and that is very crude as far as realism
is concerned.
Well, to each his own, I always say but in my opinion it is just another
flashy arcade. And "yes", I have tried it and cannot believe that you
are actually comparing it to GPL!!!
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
Quoted text (20 lines)
> >BH wrote > >>So GT is that much better than N2, MTM 2 and TOCA 1? That I'd have to buy a > >>whole new system just to race this game (on a low rez tv no doubt). What > >>makes GT that much better than the three I listed above? The 3 represent > >>different styles of racing to cover the spectrum of racing models well. > >Gran Turismo is only a game. Check out the reviews and preview all around > >the Internet. They are saying great thing about it, but nobody wanted to > >compare it to racing simulators, and tell it's the "best racing game ever > >made". > I'll happily compare it to any racing simulator you care to mention. > I'd agree with Alison in that its not quite as good as GPL, but its > easily more sophisticated than any other PC sim I've seen. > Randy > Randy Magruder > Contributing Reviewer > Digital Sportspage > http://www.digitalsports.com>Heck don't tell me that you can compare GT, where you can easily do some
>fender-bagging, wall-hitting, sliding, wild maneuvering and still win a race
>to most of the Papyrus simulators (here for me it's GPL, Nascar2, Icr2,
>SODA). It's just not "that".
Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator?
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>Buy the sony dual analog pad instead of a wheel !!! It kicks ass !! I had a >>psx but i sold it to my brother before grand turismo was out. I told him to >>buy it & let me play :) >The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran Tourismo. >The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for steering. >Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to control >the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste of >time. You had might as well use the game pads.Quoted text (10 lines)
>>friend who is pretty well respected as a *** PC simmer here on >>the group and she just bought a used Playstation, a Mad Catz and Gran >>Turismo and claims that the physics model is "the best I've seen, >>except for GPL's. It's way better than anything else. It makes F1RS, >>CPR, MTM2, ICR2, N2 seem crude by comparison". She goes on, but that >>right there says quite a bit, at least as far as the better sims like >It says a lot about what she doesn't know, like that F1 cars don't >behave like street legal cars (how else could she compare GT to a F1 >or Cart game?),>Well, to each his own, I always say but in my opinion it is just another
>flashy arcade. And "yes", I have tried it and cannot believe that you
>are actually comparing it to GPL!!!
Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
I just got GT and a "Dual-Shock" analog controller and cant say the same thing.
Granded the sticks are a bit on the sensitive side; but they are definately
not 'on/off' .
Havent tried it with my MadCatz wheel yet, but I can guess it is just as good
but without the feedback of the "Dual-Shock" (which is starting to spoil me
btw). The feedback feature of the controller really does make a difference.
F1Filter
Quoted text (41 lines)
><BR> ><BR> >><BR> >>>Buy the sony dual analog pad instead of a wheel !!! It kicks ass !! I had >a<BR> >>>psx but i sold it to my brother before grand turismo was out. I told him >to<BR> >>>buy it & let me play :)<BR> >><BR> >>The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran >Tourismo.<BR> >>The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for >steering.<BR> >>Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to >control<BR> >>the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste >of<BR> >>time. You had might as well use the game pads.<BR> ><BR> >Apparently you just lack the finesse needed to really get the most out<BR> >of the dual analog pads. The pads are full analog and if you develop<BR> >a light touch you can do anything you want with them. <BR> ><BR> >>Shame about the pathetic Arcade car control, as this is one hell of a fun >Game!<BR> >>Maybe someone will do PC version with proper analog control! Please!!!!<BR> ><BR> >Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again. <BR> ><BR> >Randy<BR> ><BR> ><BR> >Randy Magruder<BR> >Contributing Reviewer<BR> >Digital Sportspage<BR> >http://www.digitalsports.com<BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR>> Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator?
No...at least not a NASCAR simulator, since you've removed a
key element of what you're attempting to simulate - the risk
of damage while driving on the edge. Remove damage, and you're
basically driving a pinball machine: smacking walls, bouncing
off opponents, and simply racking-up points.
Of course, it's all apples and oranges, and you and I (as I'm
sure several others) could go toe-to-toe on where to draw the
line on where a sim ends - and the arcade game begins. Funny
thing, I think everyone's line will be just a tad different. ;)
Cheers!
Marc
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Quoted text (12 lines)
>> Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator? >No...at least not a NASCAR simulator, since you've removed a >key element of what you're attempting to simulate - the risk >of damage while driving on the edge. Remove damage, and you're >basically driving a pinball machine: smacking walls, bouncing >off opponents, and simply racking-up points. >Of course, it's all apples and oranges, and you and I (as I'm >sure several others) could go toe-to-toe on where to draw the >line on where a sim ends - and the arcade game begins. Funny >thing, I think everyone's line will be just a tad different. ;)>Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again.
There is also the "Ultra Racer" from "Performance". A handheld controller
which has a ~2" dia analog wheel with +/- 90 degrees rotation, an analog
trigger that serves as throttle, an analog button for brakes, another analog
button which serves no added purpose here and the usual many discrete buttons.
I'm trying one out and so far I think it is pretty good, albeit not a full
wheel/pedal setup. Walmart has it for $30.
>>and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.
>another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
>but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
>car handles is wayyyy more important.
I'm hot and cold on this one. I used to race GP2 with damage disabled. I
never got any good at ICR or ICR2 with damage enabled (though I'd occasionally
try). With F1RS, I've made a concerted effor to play with damage on. While
very frustrating at times, I find it really adds to the racing experience and,
yes, simulation.
Thing is, even if you turn damage off in any of these games, the AI cars act
like it is still on (as it is for them), which encourages the player to act
accordingly. OTOH, in the TOCA demo, I find myself bumping and bashing to my
heart's desire. Similar with Gran Tourismo, but there I find it frustrating.
The racing would be so much more fun for me if it was realistic (ie, not
demolition derby). I can imagine I might get so frustrated with it that I
might just end out hot lapping.
In summary, the handling may be spot on, but the racing part is extremely
arcadish.
snip
> >and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.
> another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
> but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
> car handles is wayyyy more important.
"Look, Daddy, this flight sim has a GREAT flight physics model, and
look,
I can bounce off of this mountain, slide into the valley and take off
again!!"
Oooh, the e***ment doesn't stop... ;^)
l8er
ronny
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Why?
> Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
So I have some idea as to what it was you experienced, what kind of
control device was used. Obviously your opinion of the game is going
to be colored by what you did and how you controlled it. If I fired
up F1RS and drove it in arcade mode with a keyboard I wouldn't be all
that impressed.
>Why?
>> Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
>Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again.
Too flimsy, but I heard there are some better wheels coming for the
Playstation.
>>and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.
>another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
>but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
>car handles is wayyyy more important.
But lack of damage lets you race in a way you couldn't race in real
life, banging the walls and other cars. Why are you so defensive
anyway, trying to somehow prove to all of us it really is the best
racing simulator ever? I have played it, and while it is a great game,
I do not think it is the best racing sim ever, even when not taking
into account GPL (which is not available yet).
Yes, car handling is "wayyyyyyyyyyyy" more important than only having
damage in a racing sim, but the lack of the latter is still a
veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy big omission IMHO. To me it is about as
important as how good the computer driver AI is (which also IMHO isn't
among the best in GT).
Sure anyone could also argue that even if a racing sim didn't have any
computer drivers in it, ie. you were driving alone all the time, it
would still be a great driving sim. But still the lack of competing
cars would be a big omission for most of us.
Ever heard of opinions?
Yeah you can do that with Flight Simulator 98, Flight Unlimited and just
about every other flight and combat flight sim I've seen. My contention is
that while points can and should be deducted for lack of a damage model, its
importance pales in comparison to how important it is to re-create the feel
of the physics of the car, and 90% (or more) of your time will be spent
trying to drive clean and smooth and find the limits of the car -- NOT
slamming into things.
Randy
>Yeah you can do that with Flight Simulator 98, Flight Unlimited and just
>about every other flight and combat flight sim I've seen. My contention is
>that while points can and should be deducted for lack of a damage model, its
>importance pales in comparison to how important it is to re-create the feel
>of the physics of the car, and 90% (or more) of your time will be spent
>trying to drive clean and smooth and find the limits of the car
^^^^^
That is the whole point with the damage. Lack of a damage model allows
you to get better times by driving dirty by taking advantage of walls
and other cars in corners, ramming other cars out of the track etc.
>>"Look, Daddy, this flight sim has a GREAT flight physics model, and
>>look, I can bounce off of this mountain, slide into the valley and take off
>>again!!"
>Yeah you can do that with Flight Simulator 98, Flight Unlimited and just
>about every other flight and combat flight sim I've seen.
The difference is that these flight/combat sims let you decide
yourself whether the damage model is simulated too. GT doesn't.
Eh?...This is EXACTLY how I tried the sim out...Ubi sent the sim in
the mail, and I got it at work...No controller (worth a hoot) for
thousands of miles (might as well have been, anyway). Drove around
Monaco (DX5 - yuck!), and was knocked on my ass by the whole shebang.
Of course, I was knocked on my ***yet again when I got home to try
it in 3Dfx. =)
First impressions can make a difference...IMHO Controllers have little
or nothing to do with it (except in the long haul), because one is
"looking" things over - either from a menu, setup, or eye-candy
standpoint. The controller part comes sooner or later, and can only
confirm (or refute) the first impression.
Cheers!
Marc
Cheers!
Marc
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Quoted text (20 lines)
> So I have some idea as to what it was you experienced, what kind of > control device was used. Obviously your opinion of the game is going > to be colored by what you did and how you controlled it. If I fired > up F1RS and drove it in arcade mode with a keyboard I wouldn't be all > that impressed. > >Why? > >> Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it. > Randy Magruder > Contributing Reviewer > Digital Sportspage > [link lost in import]Quoted text (13 lines)
> >> >>"Look, Daddy, this flight sim has a GREAT flight physics model, and > >> >>look, I can bounce off of this mountain, slide into the valley and take off > >> >>again!!" > >> >Yeah you can do that with Flight Simulator 98, Flight Unlimited and just > >> >about every other flight and combat flight sim I've seen. > >> The difference is that these flight/combat sims let you decide > >> yourself whether the damage model is simulated too. GT doesn't. > True. And I'm not arguing that we shouldn't deduct points for that. > I'm simply saying that a vast majority of time you're flying/driving, > the damage model is irrelevant.How can it be "irrelevant" if it is hovering there in the background,
waiting to come into effect if we do something wrong?
That's like saying that, to the vast majority of we humans, AIDS is
irrelevant.
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
Quoted text (8 lines)
> I'm simply saying that a vast majority of time you're flying/driving, > the damage model is irrelevant. > Randy > Randy Magruder > Contributing Reviewer > Digital Sportspage > http://www.digitalsports.comNow THERE'S a thought..........! :o)
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
Quoted text (9 lines)
> I still say you're > throwing out the baby with the bathwater. > Randy > Randy Magruder > Contributing Reviewer > Digital Sportspage > http://www.digitalsports.com>True. And I'm not arguing that we shouldn't deduct points for that.
>I'm simply saying that a vast majority of time you're flying/driving,
>the damage model is irrelevant.
Ummm, not necessarily, at least if there are lots of cars and lots of
curves on the track.
>That's like saying that, to the vast majority of we humans, AIDS is
>irrelevant.
It is.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Glad YOU think so mate!
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
Quoted text (10 lines)
> >That's like saying that, to the vast majority of we humans, AIDS is > >irrelevant. > It is. > Randy > Randy Magruder > Contributing Reviewer > Digital Sportspage > http://www.digitalsports.comRandy Magruder wrote :
>>6 cars per race.
>>2 laps per race. Okay, I know that if I race 2 person, I can get more and now
>>I've been told that with time I'll get longer races. But for now...
>Yes, you'll get up to 5 laps per race as you get better, and there are
>some endurance races which take almost 2 hours to complete, with no
>way to save, so the pause button is your only way to get a breather.
Ewww look out everybody... "5" laps. <whoaa>. I still don't know who
took the decision for those short sprint races. It is worse than those dega
3% races on the NROS <vbg>. But yes I agree those endurance are fun, but I
would eliminate the pause button. Heck you can't pause on the NROS.
So Randy... every game is arcade now because it has a pause button, since in
real life it's not existant ?? ;-)
Irrevelant Randy, I don't see Buddy Lazier racing with his Viper against the
other IRL drivers. Heck you know like me that he was talking about cars you
can race with after, not the cars you win in real life in Golf or pole
winners. C'mon <g>.
Hmmm no***pit, no damage model... looks like the Nascar 2 arcade
options.
- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
>THAT WASN'T ENGLISH ........ ITS AMERICAN...... AND THE HOME OF DRAGRACING!!!
>(LIBERTY...JUSTICE..... APPLE PIE,AND THE HOLE SHOT)AND THE ONLY TORTURE I'LL
>EVER KNOW IS LIVING SO CLOSE TO "SUMMIT RACING"(THE OBJECT OF OUR AFFECTION)
>SO THANK FOR PLAYING AND COME AGAIN
>DADDY-O
>(IM NOT LOUD?....... YOU'RE JUST STANDING TO CLOSE [;-)>+)
LOL Bruce, I'm waiting for a good and funny reply to make my day here on
r.a.s.
I don't know why, but I feel sorry for this guy. He looks... how can I
say... he's too naive I think here and an obvious target for some of the
"Bruce's special attacks".
But hey "ITS AMERICAN", Im happy I don't live there, or sorry, I don't live
near this guy.
- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
I think some of it has to do with replay. The memory and hard drive a PC
aren't present, and they wanted to show you as much replay as possible. By
having 2-3 lap races, on average, you can watch an entire race.
Not sure what you're accusing me of.
Whatever. I'm not going to try to convince you to like something you don't
like. I think the physics model is fantastic, as is the selection of cars
and customization options. If the damage model prevents you from
appreciating some of the stronger aspects of the simulation, then that's a
shame, but its your choice.
Randy
Quoted text (10 lines)
> >Ewww look out everybody... "5" laps. <whoaa>. I still don't know who > >took the decision for those short sprint races. It is worse than those > dega > >3% races on the NROS <vbg>. But yes I agree those endurance are fun, but > I > >would eliminate the pause button. Heck you can't pause on the NROS. > I think some of it has to do with replay. The memory and hard drive a PC > aren't present, and they wanted to show you as much replay as possible. By > having 2-3 lap races, on average, you can watch an entire race.>snip
>>Okay, aside from the damage model issue, what is "arcadey" about it?
>The "force field"***pit?
Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one
SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know ..
trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
I know so.
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Quoted text (18 lines)
>Glad YOU think so mate! >> >That's like saying that, to the vast majority of we humans, AIDS is >> >irrelevant. >> It is. >> Randy >> Randy Magruder >> Contributing Reviewer >> Digital Sportspage >> http://www.digitalsports.com>I like replays in a sim, but being only able to race sprint races
>because of the replay, I'd turn them off (like in F1RS). But they probably want to
>show off their fancy graphics, so you can't?
Yup.
Yeah, I know. I'm still not sure what you're accusing me of here. It
was a hypothetical question.
I'm not angry.
The issue was one of AI fallibility. If you were racing with
competitors who were approximately as fast as you are, and who on
average made about the same # of mistakes, you could still win by
driving just a bit faster and making a few less mistakes. The issue
is one of competitiveness. Of course when racing Villeneuve you're
not going to see many stupid mistakes (although some F1 fans could
argue he's really been doing himself in lately!), but I'm talking more
about the racing ladder whereby you build up through the series racing
comparable competition.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Randy Magruder wrote
Hmmm Randy... are you saying that :
"Since Im too good for the game and I never crash, a damage model is
irrelevant since I never touch the walls or other cars..."
Hmmm...
It's a supposition, and with my poor English knowledge I was wondering if my
sentence was indeed a good resume of the post I was replying to..
(hehe)
- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
Yes, the problem is your english. Note I did not say "irrelevant". I said
it was not "a huge deal", therefore its a relevant and valid criticism, but
its "not a huge deal". Got it?
Secondly, in the***pit view we're talking about something that is a visual
issue more than anything else, rather than a handling/physics issue such as
damage. Apples and oranges.
Randy
>>The "force field"***pit?
>Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one
>SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know ..
>trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc.
Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see
objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them
directly all the time.
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>>The "force field"***pit? >>Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one >>SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know .. >>trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc. >Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see >objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them >directly all the time.snip
> >Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see
> >objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them
> >directly all the time.
> Fine, but the question really is, how much of a difference does it
> really make?!
It's big, if you want simulated reality, it's small, if you can live
with
some, well, magic... ;^)
l8er
ronny
--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
You live with a certain amount of, well, magic, in every simulator.
We could go through sim by sim and find that simulated reality just
isn't happening in some aspects of EVERY sim.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >> Fine, but the question really is, how much of a difference does it > >> really make?! > >It's big, if you want simulated reality, it's small, if you can live > >with some, well, magic... ;^) > You live with a certain amount of, well, magic, in every simulator. > We could go through sim by sim and find that simulated reality just > isn't happening in some aspects of EVERY sim.>We are playing ping pong right now... ;^) Of course, PC have limits,
as does the Playstation. Its a miracle Gran Turismo could be done at
all on the thing considering its a 33 MHz machine with a 66 MHz
graphics processor. Compare this to your typical 3D accelerated
computer and its a pretty amazing feat.
My criteria would differ a bit if it were a PC game. I'd expect longer
replays, longer races, full***pit view, etc. Things I'd forgive
for a Playstation title I would really not in a PC title.
That having been said, I'd be amazed if we'd see a real damage model
in any PC version of Gran Turismo, simply because I bet the car
companies wouldn't allow it in their licensing agreements.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
