F1RS and keystone cops speed/framerate

I just finished putting my P2 333 clocked to 412mhz (103x4), 64meg of pc100 and V2 card together and tried F1RS which i have been hotlapping quite successfully with my K6 266 and V1 for some time. Well what a dissapointment! It runs with everything on inc replays with no slowdown whatsoever on first (or any) lap in a race, even when starting last....great i thought. But...try ghost mode or free run and the sim speeds up so much its impossible to drive. The lap timing also goes to pot and Thats with all graphics and replays on. I clocked it back to a P2 266 (4x66) and with all graphics and replay on it was just about drivable. Anyone know if Ubisoft have a fix for this? i'm using v109. Mike.....back to GP2 i think! -- 12:35 on 06/07/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

As one who is in the process of buying F1RS I would to know: What is the "Ghost Mode" ? ?

Quoted text (14 lines)

>But...try ghost mode or free run and the sim speeds up so much its >impossible to drive. >Anyone know if Ubisoft have a fix for this? i'm using v109. >Mike.....back to GP2 i think! >-- > 12:35 on 06/07/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Oh dear...what a shame that it's running so fast. I agree that it really must be shattering to discover something like that. Does this mean that Space Invaders and Pacman are completely supersonic?

Quoted text (9 lines)

> I just finished putting my P2 333 clocked to 412mhz (103x4), 64meg of > pc100 and V2 card together and tried F1RS which i have been hotlapping > quite successfully with my K6 266 and V1 for some time. > Well what a dissapointment! > It runs with everything on inc replays with no slowdown whatsoever on > first (or any) lap in a race, even when starting last....great i > thought.

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Well what a troll!!! Runs too fast... Haha, get out of here with that. Sheesh. Since I just race and don't do ghost laps I cannot feel sorry for you at all. It just goes to show that someone will always complain about something. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > It runs with everything on inc replays with no slowdown whatsoever on >first (or any) lap in a race, even when starting last....great i >thought. >But...try ghost mode or free run and the sim speeds up so much its >impossible to drive. The lap timing also goes to pot and Thats with all >graphics and replays on. >I clocked it back to a P2 266 (4x66) and with all graphics and replay on >it was just about drivable. >Anyone know if Ubisoft have a fix for this? i'm using v109. >Mike.....back to GP2 i think! >-- > 12:35 on 06/07/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Quoted text (22 lines)

>> Oh dear...what a shame that it's running so fast. I agree that it >> really > must be shattering to discover something like that. > Does this mean that Space Invaders and Pacman are completely > supersonic? >> I just finished putting my P2 333 clocked to 412mhz (103x4), 64meg of >> pc100 and V2 card together and tried F1RS which i have been >> hotlapping quite successfully with my K6 266 and V1 for some time. >> Well what a dissapointment! >> It runs with everything on inc replays with no slowdown whatsoever on >> first (or any) lap in a race, even when starting last....great i >> thought. > -- > Regards, > Bruce.

I did think i might get some sensible replies from this group but it seems the children ( and maybe ones with green eyes too) are out to play again. I have better things to do with my time and the bandwidth than send "troll msg's" Mike. -- 15:14 on 06/07/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

It's when you race agianst a 'ghost' of your own best lap. >As one who is in the process of buying F1RS I would to know: >What is the "Ghost Mode" ? ?

I think if there was something sensable to reply to you would be right. OK good. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Then why did you reply?! LOL! > I have better things to do with my time and the bandwidth than send > "troll msg's" -- (please change antispam to worldnet.att when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if this speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! Mike. -- 20:37 on 06/07/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Hi mike, I believe you ,cause i had the same problem twice.It doesn't happen all the time.Don't throw your system away.I have an old P-166 with 32mb edo,voodoo1 ,so i think the problem isn't related to the higher cpu speed.In those 2 times i just testarted the computer and everything came back to normal. Rafael

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > I think if there was something sensable to reply to you would be > > right.> . > I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if this > speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! > Mike. > -- > 20:37 on 06/07/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

lets see.. you're running the chip at 25% faster than it was designed for.. I wonder why its not running this properly?? Run the damn thing the way it was designed and you probably won't have any problems.

Quoted text (28 lines)

>I just finished putting my P2 333 clocked to 412mhz (103x4), 64meg of >pc100 and V2 card together and tried F1RS which i have been hotlapping >quite successfully with my K6 266 and V1 for some time. >Well what a dissapointment! > It runs with everything on inc replays with no slowdown whatsoever on >first (or any) lap in a race, even when starting last....great i >thought. >But...try ghost mode or free run and the sim speeds up so much its >impossible to drive. The lap timing also goes to pot and Thats with all >graphics and replays on. >I clocked it back to a P2 266 (4x66) and with all graphics and replay on >it was just about drivable. >Anyone know if Ubisoft have a fix for this? i'm using v109. >Mike.....back to GP2 i think! >-- > 12:35 on 06/07/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Further to my original post, for those who are interested here are some times. I did some testing using Buenos Aires in ghost mode and this is what i found. all graphics+replay 1m30sec 412mhz no sky or replay 1m12sec 412mhz all g+replay 1m11sec 333mhz this is 5x66.8 true rated speed for no sky or replay 1m25sec 333mhz this cpu for those who said it was clocking the cpu that caused it! all g+replay 1m03sec 266mhz no sky or replay 1m13sec 266mhz all g+replay 1m00sec 233mhz no sky or replay 1m02sec 233mhz all g+replay 1m00sec 200mhz no sky or replay 1m01sec 200mhz So as you can see it has the GP2 frame/occupancy problem just happens higher up the mhz range. By all graphics on i mean maximum inc all options for mirrors etc. My best h/lap time using the k6 at BA is 1:19.3**. The same lap on the p2 412mhz would take 1:58.5** Going the other way i wonder if as again in GP2, you slow the cpu down enough would the clock go the other way and you could then do a slowmo lap and get a wonderfull time!! Mike. -- 06:57 on 06/08/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Quoted text (11 lines)

>>Well what a troll!!! Runs too fast... Haha, get out of here with >>that. Sheesh. >>Since I just race and don't do ghost laps I cannot feel sorry for >>you at all. It just goes to show that someone will always >>complain about something. >Well maybe you should try it first. What Mike has determined is that the >'sim' doesn't run in real time on very fast PCs. This effectively means >that it is pointless for hotlapping for guys with fast machines. He posts >evidence, you post garbage. Guess which one I have more respect for...

Respect what you want. My "garbage" is probably what prompted him to post the numbers in the previous post. Now I know what he is getting at and it is scarry. And I would try it if I had a PII-400. Besides, he said it was way too fast in ghost mode. But his numbers showed that the game times are longer. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

OK but I thought you said that with the PII-400, F1RS was way too fast. I guess I am confused because your laptimes are longer. Also, I think it is better to post numbers like this when you make an origional statement like you did earlier. If I saw these numbers I would not have reacted as I did. Sorry ;-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >Going the other way i wonder if as again in GP2, you slow the cpu down >enough would the clock go the other way and you could then do a slowmo >lap and get a wonderfull time!! >Mike. >-- > 06:57 on 06/08/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

Lordy...what a deep and meaningful tag-line, Richard! Which movie is that from? > Cheers, > Richard > -- > We all bump into each other every day of our lives, and we render our opinions > whether we know anything or not, and if anybody catches us out we lie... -- Regards, Bruce. ----------

Ah...now I see. Hmmm....Is there a way to 'turn-down' the power of the 3Dfx card?...uh...'under-clock' it? Just curious if the mentioned delima is either CPU or card dependant. Cheers! Marc

Quoted text (48 lines)

> > I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if this > > speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! > Further to my original post, for those who are interested here are some > times. > I did some testing using Buenos Aires in ghost mode and this is what i > found. > all graphics+replay 1m30sec 412mhz > no sky or replay 1m12sec 412mhz > all g+replay 1m11sec 333mhz this is 5x66.8 true rated > speed for no sky or replay 1m25sec 333mhz this cpu for > those who said it was > clocking the cpu that caused it! > all g+replay 1m03sec 266mhz > no sky or replay 1m13sec 266mhz > all g+replay 1m00sec 233mhz > no sky or replay 1m02sec 233mhz > all g+replay 1m00sec 200mhz > no sky or replay 1m01sec 200mhz > So as you can see it has the GP2 frame/occupancy problem just happens > higher up the mhz range. By all graphics on i mean maximum inc all > options for mirrors etc. > My best h/lap time using the k6 at BA is 1:19.3**. The same lap on the > p2 412mhz would take 1:58.5** > Going the other way i wonder if as again in GP2, you slow the cpu down > enough would the clock go the other way and you could then do a slowmo > lap and get a wonderfull time!! > Mike. > -- > 06:57 on 06/08/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

-- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com <change antispam to worldnet.att when replying>

>> means that it is pointless for hotlapping for guys with fast >> more respect for... I will run this past you all again, it does run too fast in ghost mode! The pc sim clock with hi cpu speed runs faster than real time as do the cars on the track. Both the ghost you are chasing and your car are running about 50% faster than real time, so its like you are driving at 250mph + most of the time. "Thats great" you may say, but when you come to a complex of corners and you dont make it cause you cant react at super human speeds you will realise what i'm saying. Its just like fast forwarding your video at 1.5x normal speed, time and the cars go quicker than normal speed by 1.5x so you driving just as fast as you normally do for a hotlap at that circuit, (lets say 1:19.3** ) will end up with a lap time in the 1:58's. Your ghost meanwhile finished, got changed went home had his meal and has gone out to celibrate his victory!! all before you crossed the finish line. So, to finish up, a guy with a p166 or p200 has more chance of beating another with a p2 266 in ghost mode hotlapping because his reaction time doesnt have to be so quick and a guy with a p2 333 has no chance whatsoever of beating a good hotlapper using a p200. This makes a complete farce of any hotlap charts for this sim as the playing field is no longer level. undeliverable. Mike. -- 22:10 on 06/08/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

> He posts evidence, you post garbage. Guess which one I have more I knew you would see what i was getting at Richard, thanks for the support<S> Mike. -- 22:10 on 06/08/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

OK Greg, please read my latest reply. Mike. -- 22:10 on 06/08/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

>I think if there was something sensable to reply to you would be right. Alright, let's give you (and others) something to reply to. What Mike Turner meant, was that F1RS seems to have a serious flaw that makes a joke of every hotlapping competition. This is why: When you speed up the frame rate in F1RS, you also speed up the timing. In a way you wouldn't believe. Take a stopwatch and check for yourself: do a lap at Montreal with all graphics options switched on (max viewing distance, ideal line, replay etc.). Check the laptime at your stopwatch, then look at the laptime that F1RS reports in the blue bar on top of the screen. In my case, the times were practically identical. A reported 1:30 lap actually took 1:30 in actual time to drive. Then I switched OFF all those graphics options, to get a better frame rate. But I got more than that. Not only did the proceedings on the track look like a Fast Forward replay (Mike's Keystone Cops effect) making it very difficult to drive, also the timing was speeded up. A lap that took me 1:30 to drive (actual time on the stopwatch) was reported by F1RS as a 2:05 lap! No matter how great a sim driver you are, you will never be able to beat a 35 second difference in timing. IMHO this turns all hotlap times and competitions completely meaningless. It's probably hardware-related. My system is PII 266 with a 75 MHz bus speed, a Riva 128 and a Voodoo 2 8 Mb. My guess is it's in the bus speed, as not everyone running a 266/Voodoo 2 seems to experience this ridiculous effect. I've e-mailed Ubisoft about it, but so far haven't heard anything from them. Sensible enough for you? Bye, Leo Landman

>I think if there was something sensable to reply to you would be right. Alright, let's give you something to reply to. What Mike meant is that F1RS seems to have a serious flaw that makes a joke of every hotlap competition. Try a lap at Montreal with all graphics options switched on. Measure the actual laptime using a stopwatch, then check what laptime the game reports in the blue bar on top of the screen. In my case the times were identical, i.e. a 1:30 lap actual time was reported by F1RS as 1:30 in the blue bar. Now switch all graphics options OFF. Not only will your next lap feel like you're in a Fast Forward replay (making it difficult to drive) but also the timing is speeded up. Let's say you're doing a 1:30 lap again (on the stopwatch) but F1RS will report is as 2:05. Yes, that's right, two minutes and five seconds. Anyway, that's what happened on my system (PII 266, bus speed 75 MHz, Voodoo 2). But it also happens on a P233/Voodoo 1. No matter how good you are as a sim driver, you can never make up this 35 second difference in timing. So it looks like all F1RS hotlap times and hotlap competitions are completely meaningless. Sensible enough for ya? Bye, Leo Landman

Quoted text (7 lines)

>>I have better things to do with my time and the bandwidth than send >>"troll msg's" >OK good. >-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

I can cut the cpu down to p200 speed but that wont help much for hotlapping comps as i've no idea what everyone else is running, what's needed is some sort of frame rate/clock timing lock by Ubisoft as a patch. I'm sure when they developed this sim they had no idea that home users were going to end up with voodoo2 cards and cpu's that could feed them quick enough to get to this problem. TOCA runs fine in race or hotlap mode using 412mhz and v2 so it can be done. Its just Ubisoft didnt think of it. Ubisoft contacted me tonight and i have given them all the info i have, so we will see what happens now. Mike. -- 23:03 on 06/08/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

[Great stuff deleted to save space] It's probably hardware-related. My system is PII 266 with a 75 MHz bus Yes I actually understand it too! Mike gets an atta-boy :-) Well at least it only affects hotlapping. Which I never do. Sorry. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

What I meant was to turn the chip on the card down, not the CPU (I don't know if it'll make a difference). Cheers! Marc

Quoted text (25 lines)

> > Ah...now I see. Hmmm....Is there a way to 'turn-down' the power > > of the 3Dfx card?...uh...'under-clock' it? Just curious if the > > mentioned delima is either CPU or card dependant. > I can cut the cpu down to p200 speed but that wont help much for > hotlapping comps as i've no idea what everyone else is running, what's > needed is some sort of frame rate/clock timing lock by Ubisoft as a > patch. I'm sure when they developed this sim they had no idea that home > users were going to end up with voodoo2 cards and cpu's that could feed > them quick enough to get to this problem. TOCA runs fine in race or > hotlap mode using 412mhz and v2 so it can be done. Its just Ubisoft > didnt think of it. > Ubisoft contacted me tonight and i have given them all the info i have, > so we will see what happens now. > Mike. > -- > 23:03 on 06/08/98 > From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. > mailable also at > remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

-- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com <remove '_*_' before replying>

< Snip > > I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if this > speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! > Mike. > -- I'll be dropping $12K to $15K on one of those slot two beasts this fall, how long is this offer good for? Larry

Quoted text (12 lines)

>> I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if >> this speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! >> Mike. >> -- > I'll be dropping $12K to $15K on one of those slot two > beasts this fall, how long is this offer good for? > Larry

Due to the fact that everything in this house is now running at 1.5x normal speed this special offer has timed out, but dont forget to call by again when you are ready to spend your $12k. Mike<S> -- 18:36 on 06/09/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

It's even more appropriate for Nascar2 on TEN... Trips

Quoted text (9 lines)

> It's a paraphrasing of a sentence from the book 'Forge of God' by Greg > Bear. Don't know why, but it seems appropriate for Usenet... ;-) > Cheers, > Richard > -- > We all bump into each other every day of our lives, and we render our opinions > whether we know anything or not, and if anybody catches us out we lie...

>Ah...now I see. Hmmm....Is there a way to 'turn-down' the power >of the 3Dfx card?...uh...'under-clock' it? Just curious if the >mentioned delima is either CPU or card dependant. If the CPU is too fast it may be possible to tone it down in the game by editing the ubi.ini file in the \Windows\Ubisoft directory. There is an entry for CPU which may do what you would think. Mine is set to 12 and I have a P5-200MMX. It would be interesting to see what other people get with different CPU's. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >Cheers! >Marc >> > I invite anyone to view the pc doing just what i said it does, if this >> > speedup doesnt happen i will give you the pc free! >> Further to my original post, for those who are interested here are some >> times. >> I did some testing using Buenos Aires in ghost mode and this is what i >> found. >> all graphics+replay 1m30sec 412mhz >> no sky or replay 1m12sec 412mhz >> all g+replay 1m11sec 333mhz this is 5x66.8 true rated >> speed for no sky or replay 1m25sec 333mhz this cpu for >> those who said it was >> clocking the cpu that caused it! >> all g+replay 1m03sec 266mhz >> no sky or replay 1m13sec 266mhz >> all g+replay 1m00sec 233mhz >> no sky or replay 1m02sec 233mhz >> all g+replay 1m00sec 200mhz >> no sky or replay 1m01sec 200mhz >> So as you can see it has the GP2 frame/occupancy problem just happens >> higher up the mhz range. By all graphics on i mean maximum inc all >> options for mirrors etc. >> My best h/lap time using the k6 at BA is 1:19.3**. The same lap on the >> p2 412mhz would take 1:58.5** >> Going the other way i wonder if as again in GP2, you slow the cpu down >> enough would the clock go the other way and you could then do a slowmo >> lap and get a wonderfull time!! >> Mike. >> -- >> 06:57 on 06/08/98 >> From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. >> mailable also at >> remove NO-SPAM to mail me. >-- >Marc J. Nelson >Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com ><change antispam to worldnet.att when replying>

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:36:01 -0500, "Greg Cisko" >If the CPU is too fast it may be possible to tone it down in >the game by editing the ubi.ini file in the \Windows\Ubisoft >directory. There is an entry for CPU which may do what >you would think. Mine is set to 12 and I have a P5-200MMX. >It would be interesting to see what other people get with >different CPU's. I have a Pentium II 350/100 and it is set to 12 on mine as well. Maybe this is not what we think it is? --Keith (Spatula)

>I have a Pentium II 350/100 and it is set to 12 on mine as well. >Maybe this is not what we think it is? I agree. Thanks for your input :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Hi Mike, I've followed this thread with interest and done a little testing with my P2 300 + Voodoo 2. Have you got the "on't sync glide buffering to refresh rate"box checked,in your Voodoo 2 properties tab.If so try unchecking it and setting your Voodoo refresh rate to 60Hz for 640 by 480 resolution. This will limit your framerate to 60 frames per second. When I was not syncing to refresh rate I noticed some abnormalities in F1RS.

Paul- Thanks for the suggestion, but....been there tried that, in fact those are my standard everyday settings. That or any other suggestion that alters the speed/frame rate on MY pc wont actually help too much as its hotlapping in F1RS which is causing concern. Unless everyone has the same max frame rate/timing in a lap then all h/lap competitions are a sham as some can drive slower and still post faster times. Its Ubisoft who need to get this sorted by making a patch to limit the speed to real time. At least 2 other users have reported the same problem in hotlapping. I hot lap in TOCA and it doesnt matter weather its a K6 233 or P2 400 the lap time is the same. In F1RS if i race in a full grid the timing is correct, but in hotlapping it varies dependent on the cpu speed. Ubisoft have been in touch with me and i have given them all the info so all we can do now is wait and see. -- 22:55 on 06/11/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.