Win98 horror story (off-topic)

Fellow Usenetters, I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale June 25th. The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, etc. Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a little bit worried about damaging some components. I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good people about one little aspect of the install; __READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling around with all the problems of the new version. The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and tribulations. All the best, Mike -- Michael S. Davis Creative Media-Works Computer/Audio/Video Convergence "from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." http://www.creativemedia-works.com

I'm running beta 3 and it works better than osr2.1! send me yours if you don't want it!

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>Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some >of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; >I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, >an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the >CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade >disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale >June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the >fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, >Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. >However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. >Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It >made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must >admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The >multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, >etc. > Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my >games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. >So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. >Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS >games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making >little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at >all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS >programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users >will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple >such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not >run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more >system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running >pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the >last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system >was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable >speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a >little bit worried about damaging some components. > I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to >the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good >people about one little aspect of the install; >__READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ > When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save >all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will >not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will >have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all >the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly >rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you >this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is >pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling >around with all the problems of the new version. > The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was >really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing >a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a >difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I >felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and >tribulations. > All the best, Mike >-- >Michael S. Davis >Creative Media-Works >Computer/Audio/Video Convergence >"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." >http://www.creativemedia-works.com

Strange that you should say that. I have been running Win98 Beta 3 for a while now with no noticeable problem... It is indeed a bit more stable than Win95, and much faster when loading apps or starting/shutting down the machine. Have heard horror stories (blue screen of death yadda yadda yadda) but as far as I am concerned, 3 months of intensive use with no problem that I can relate to Win98. All my games have worked well under it (then again I do not play any more Dos games...)... If Win95 works better for you, be glad you did indeed elect to backup your previous configuration. Supposedly you should be able to revert to it effortlessly (at least that is what Microsoft is telling us...). I am slightly skeptical on that part, though, remembering the nightmares of IE 4.0 or Direct X for the people who tried to uninstall those... Let us know how it goes for you. Cheers <snip>

Re: interface being slow Turn off the web view. That is slow. Once you turn that off you get most of the new ui features and it's faster than before. Only use the web ui for exploring if you have a good reason to. Turn off the active desktop as well, that makes the desktop redraw twice ever time, and slows it down. You should be up to full speed now. Re: Dos problems Dunno on this one, what exactly were you having trouble with? I personally haven't run a dos game for a long time, and those that I have (DK for Dos, Quake for Dos) have worked beautifully, as has Turbo Pascal 7. Everything else is in windows and works great anyway. Ken

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>Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some >of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; >I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, >an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the >CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade >disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale >June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the >fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, >Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. >However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. >Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It >made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must >admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The >multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, >etc. > Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my >games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. >So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. >Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS >games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making >little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at >all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS >programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users >will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple >such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not >run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more >system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running >pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the >last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system >was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable >speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a >little bit worried about damaging some components. > I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to >the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good >people about one little aspect of the install; >__READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ > When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save >all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will >not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will >have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all >the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly >rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you >this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is >pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling >around with all the problems of the new version. > The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was >really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing >a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a >difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I >felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and >tribulations. > All the best, Mike >-- >Michael S. Davis >Creative Media-Works >Computer/Audio/Video Convergence >"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." >http://www.creativemedia-works.com

Probably the most useful post I have seen in this newsgroup! Thank you. ROTFL. Made my day. -- Alter that obviously :-) "Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from becoming another James Bond villain."--Dennis Miller "No Mr Bond, I expect you to upgrade." -Thanks go to Terri Branch >The Kennewell Philosphy on Upgrading Operating System:- >"Never, ever, on pain of castration and death by tickling, "upgrade" >your current operating system version UNLESS (a) A new, exciting, >'must-have' racing simulation will not run on anything less than the >newest Operating System or (b) your existing exciting >racing-simulation(s)will run (i)faster, (ii)more reliably, (iii)with >hugely-improved graphics on the newest operating system. >Before "upgrading" to the newest Operating System make quadruple-sure >that there is absolutely no other alternative."

The Kennewell Philosphy on Upgrading Operating System:- "Never, ever, on pain of castration and death by tickling, "upgrade" your current operating system version UNLESS (a) A new, exciting, 'must-have' racing simulation will not run on anything less than the newest Operating System or (b) your existing exciting racing-simulation(s)will run (i)faster, (ii)more reliably, (iii)with hugely-improved graphics on the newest operating system. Before "upgrading" to the newest Operating System make quadruple-sure that there is absolutely no other alternative." > Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some > of the problems I experienced with Windows98. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

You're most welcome, Bart! :-) > Probably the most useful post I have seen in this newsgroup! Thank you. > ROTFL. Made my day. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

< snip bunch of ***> Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? What a bunch of crap. I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this kind of crying all the time, usually from developers and other "experts". First of all, like it or not, most professianals know that for max stability you need to wipe the drive clean and reinstall. I know its a pain and I know MS says you can upgrade, but your rolling the dice. Second, as some others here have said dumb the OS down by turning of the stupid active desktop etc. I have seen very few screwed up machines that couldn't be fixed by making obvious configuration changes. Get a systems professional to look at it.

hey ! First of all, i useing win98 betas since beta1 last summer ! i had some problems myself, but as the new versions was coming all seems to dissapire ! on beta3 in january i had no problmes anymore, since then i had ALL the diferent version, all just upgraded, never had to reinstall win98 even after motherboard changes !!! ( in the past i was forced to reinstall win95 every 3 mouths ) Now that i own the retail version for developers, i like it, i have only 1 single problem, my matrox G100 drivers dont let me choose any higher refresh rates then 85Hz, this is becouse i dont have win98 native drivers for the card ! Also note that win98 is much more stable, even on my badly overclocked P2-233 to 350, it generates a lotta heat, but still win98 runs just fine !

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>Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some >of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; >I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, >an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the >CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade >disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale >June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the >fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, >Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. >However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. >Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface.

turn active desktop off, and check chache settings ! i had no more problems that i had whit 95...try not to use windowed mode but start directly in DOS. It is not something simple well...i dont reboot my PC for days...i just let it go to suspend mode, and it wakes up nicely every time ! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system ??????? so much cycling??????? naaah Tilus sorry for my bad english..

Mike, What is the version number that you are using?

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>Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some >of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; >I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, >an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the >CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade >disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale >June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the >fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, >Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. >However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. >Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It >made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must >admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The >multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, >etc. > Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my >games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. >So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. >Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS >games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making >little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at >all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS >programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users >will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple >such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not >run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more >system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running >pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the >last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system >was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable >speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a >little bit worried about damaging some components. > I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to >the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good >people about one little aspect of the install; >__READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ > When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save >all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will >not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will >have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all >the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly >rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you >this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is >pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling >around with all the problems of the new version. > The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was >really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing >a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a >difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I >felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and >tribulations. > All the best, Mike >-- >Michael S. Davis >Creative Media-Works >Computer/Audio/Video Convergence >"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." >http://www.creativemedia-works.com

Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead of doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a new OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy as zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2!

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> Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some > of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; > I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, > an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the > CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade > disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale > June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the > fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, > Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. > However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. > Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It > made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must > admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The > multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, > etc. > Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my > games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. > So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. > Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS > games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making > little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at > all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS > programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users > will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple > such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not > run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more > system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running > pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the > last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system > was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable > speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a > little bit worried about damaging some components. > I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to > the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good > people about one little aspect of the install; > __READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ > When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save > all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will > not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will > have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all > the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly > rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you > this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is > pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling > around with all the problems of the new version. > The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was > really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing > a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a > difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I > felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and > tribulations. > All the best, Mike > -- > Michael S. Davis > Creative Media-Works > Computer/Audio/Video Convergence > "from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." > http://www.creativemedia-works.com

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> Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead of >doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've >upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the >customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a new >OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy as >zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. > As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2!

I am still entirely confused here. Installing a dvd rom drive should be no different than installing a new cd-rom drive. ** To respond to me via email, remove the x's from primenet **

You know, except for the 'sim racing' part, the O/S you describe sounds like a Mac. ;)

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> The Kennewell Philosphy on Upgrading Operating System:- > "Never, ever, on pain of castration and death by tickling, "upgrade" > your current operating system version UNLESS (a) A new, exciting, > 'must-have' racing simulation will not run on anything less than the > newest Operating System or (b) your existing exciting > racing-simulation(s)will run (i)faster, (ii)more reliably, (iii)with > hugely-improved graphics on the newest operating system.

-- (please change antispam to worldnet.att when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Thank you Doctor for the less_than_neccessary 1st half of your post, as well as your informative 2nd half. You need to work on your bed-side manner, however. ;) > I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this > kind of crying all the time, usually from developers and other > "experts". -- (please change antispam to worldnet.att when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Please take this to the appropriate forum. We have enough noise in here. Let's NOT start a thread on Win98, okay? Thanks, Jeff

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>Fellow Usenetters, > I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some >of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; >I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, >an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the >CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade >disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale >June 25th. > The install itself went smooth and the machine booted up with the >fancy new Win98 logo. All of the normal big apps like Word, Access, >Adobe PhotoShop5 and Illustrator, etc functioned perfectly normal. >However, the touted speed of the new O/S was certainly not there for me. >Windows Explorer was a dog to use, very slow with the new interface. It >made my P2/300 with 128megs SDRAM run more like an older P/100. I must >admit I was pretty surprised, not to mention dissappointed. The >multi-media stuff also was all fine, DVD player, mpeg movie playback, >etc. > Then I went for the important apps and started to fire up some of my >games. The new killer- Unreal, ran great right from my desktop shortcut. >So did Formula One Racing Simulation, both running on the 3dfx card. >Speed and appearent framerate were just as they should be, great. DOS >games, forget about it. I must have spent hours fooling around, making >little .bat and config files to get the individual apps to run, if at >all. I say this because, as someone with quite a bit of C and DOS >programming experience, If I had problems, then lots of average users >will be having nightmares with their new O/S. It is not something simple >such as delete and re-install the game, some things just plain will not >run without major work, and headaches. Major problems would include more >system lock-ups than I have ever had before. My system had been running >pretty darn sweet, and I have re-booted more today than I have in the >last two years! The temp guage on the beastie showed that whole system >was actually running hot from so much cycling, and all of the variable >speed fans were running full tilt continuously. I started to get a >little bit worried about damaging some components. > I know that lots of you guys, like myself, were looking forward to >the new upgrade. I felt I should take a moment and warn all you good >people about one little aspect of the install; >__READ THIS PART CAREFULLY.__ > When you first start the install, it asks you do you want to save >all your old settings and preferences? SAY YES!!! If not, then you will >not be able to un-install the new version and go back to Win95. You will >have to reformat the disc and then re-install 95 if you do not save all >the old information. I can just envision lots of neophytes blindly >rushing through the install and not paying attention when it asks you >this one little question. Luckily, it really does work and everything is >pretty much back to normal after spending about eight hours fooling >around with all the problems of the new version. > The truth be told, I have always liked Microsoft products and was >really in for a shock. I will try again on another machine, after doing >a full wipe and format.When I have _lots_ of time <ggg.> It may make a >difference, it may not. With the release date just around the corner, I >felt I should let all you guys know about my own little trails and >tribulations. > All the best, Mike >-- >Michael S. Davis >Creative Media-Works >Computer/Audio/Video Convergence >"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." >http://www.creativemedia-works.com

Well you may be interested to know then that at least Nascar Racing 2 does indeed run faster and smoother under 98 than it did under Win95, at least for me. :) Under Win95 I had to use -4bit textures w/dma rendition version, with Win98 I'm using the 8bit textures with no problems at all. Dan. |The Kennewell Philosphy on Upgrading Operating System:- | |"Never, ever, on pain of castration and death by tickling, "upgrade" |your current operating system version UNLESS (a) A new, exciting, |'must-have' racing simulation will not run on anything less than the

Since Diamond released the latest drivers for the Stealth S220 I've been using Win98 Beta preview with no problems at all. Everything has worked at least as well as with Win95 and many things work better. It's been very stable. You are right that in most cases Win98 is a bit slower but not enough to really notice IMO. I don't use the Active Desktop, nor do I know many that do, this may be your problem with the speed and stability. Win98 is not an upgrade that I would consider a neccessity for anything other than being able to do away with all the patches/updates for Win95. I also think the price is ridiculous for basically a bug fix update to the OS but such is life. I'll be upgrading to the final retail when available but only because I can free up some HD space deleting all my patches/updates, at least until the the patches/updates for Win98 begin to arrive. :) Dan.

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|Fellow Usenetters, | I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some |of the problems I experienced with Windows98. First, for the background; |I did a full custom install over my existing Win95 O/S. In other words, |an upgrade, just like I assume most people will be doing. In my case the |CD happens to be the full version, rather than the strictly upgrade |disc. The disc is the normal production version that will be on sale |June 25th.

He's talking about installing Win 98 over 95. >> Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead of

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>>doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've >>upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the >>customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a new >>OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy as >>zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. >> As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2! >I am still entirely confused here. Installing a dvd rom drive should be no >different than installing a new cd-rom drive. >** To respond to me via email, remove the x's from primenet **

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>Well you may be interested to know then that at least Nascar Racing 2 does >indeed run faster and smoother under 98 than it did under Win95, at least >for me. :) >Under Win95 I had to use -4bit textures w/dma rendition version, with Win98 >I'm using the 8bit textures with no problems at all. >Dan.

I agree ! Tilus

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>< snip bunch of ***> >Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? >What a bunch of crap. >I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this >kind of crying all the time, usually from developers and other >"experts". >First of all, like it or not, most professianals know that for max >stability you need to wipe the drive clean and reinstall. I know its >a pain and I know MS says you can upgrade, but your rolling the dice. >Second, as some others here have said dumb the OS down by turning of >the stupid active desktop etc. >I have seen very few screwed up machines that couldn't be fixed by >making obvious configuration changes. Get a systems professional to >look at it.

I have to agree again !!! Tilus

couse it isnt any differnt...if u have a SCSI allready installed !!! if u dont and your DVD needs it...then u set for a win reinstall. Tilus

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>Since Diamond released the latest drivers for the Stealth S220 I've been >using Win98 Beta preview with no problems at all. Everything has worked at >least as well as with Win95 and many things work better. It's been very >stable. You are right that in most cases Win98 is a bit slower but not >enough to really notice IMO. I don't use the Active Desktop, nor do I know >many that do, this may be your problem with the speed and stability. >Win98 is not an upgrade that I would consider a neccessity for anything >other than being able to do away with all the patches/updates for Win95. I >also think the price is ridiculous for basically a bug fix update to the OS >but such is life. I'll be upgrading to the final retail when available but >only because I can free up some HD space deleting all my patches/updates,

at >least until the the patches/updates for Win98 begin to arrive. :) >Dan. I agree again, MS shoudnt charge US for win98, but man...dont expect win98 to eat less HDD space then win95 did !!!! it eats twice as much !!!! also no more patches anymore ! u have online upgrade from now on ! this is one of the best features ! Tilus

Well if you work 'desktop support' then with your attitude I'm certainly ***y glad I'm not one of your customers! It would be nioce, however, to be one of your bosses because i'd definitely give you a kick up the arse for your 'customer relations'.

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> < snip bunch of ***> > Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? > What a bunch of crap. > I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this > kind of crying all the time,

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

With Win 95 and Voodoo2 I can run NASCAR2 with everything 'on'. If i can do this under Win95 then there is no 'need' for me to so-called "upgrade" to win98.

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> Well you may be interested to know then that at least Nascar Racing 2 does > indeed run faster and smoother under 98 than it did under Win95, at least > for me. :) > Under Win95 I had to use -4bit textures w/dma rendition version, with Win98 > I'm using the 8bit textures with no problems at all. > Dan. > |The Kennewell Philosphy on Upgrading Operating System:- > | > |"Never, ever, on pain of castration and death by tickling, "upgrade" > |your current operating system version UNLESS (a) A new, exciting, > |'must-have' racing simulation will not run on anything less than the

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

HAHA!! Yes....I guess it does! One thing about the Mac....love them or hate them, they do have a stable OS. > You know, except for the 'sim racing' part, the O/S you > describe sounds like a Mac. ;) -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Mike, This post is not off topic. Since I went over to 98 I can't run CPR or GPL. :-( :-( :-( :-( -- mark "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track." F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm Remove us here and there to mail me. Fellow Usenetters, I felt compelled to write and tell all you good people about some of the problems I experienced with Windows98.

I run GPL on Win98 RC0, but I have to delete some files and calibrate the wheel every time I start it. -Jan Otto Mike, This post is not off topic. Since I went over to 98 I can't run CPR or GPL. :-( :-( :-( :-( -- mark "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track."

> Fellow Usenetters, Who ***ing cares? What is the point of this post, really? It's just anti-Microsoft spam. -- Dave Kerr, #327

I run Win98 final release and have had no probs with GPL or any progs. In fact, everything in Windows seems to run somewhat faster. -- Regards, Ed Medlin www.edmedlin.netminds.com Columnist, Software Critics Unlimited www.softwarecritic.com >I run GPL on Win98 RC0, but I have to delete some files and calibrate the >wheel every time I start it. >-Jan Otto > Mike, This post is not off topic. Since I went over to 98 I can't run >CPR or GPL. > :-( :-( :-( :-( > -- > mark > "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's >about going just slow enough to stay on the track."

>> Fellow Usenetters, >Who ***ing cares? >What is the point of this post, really? It's just anti-Microsoft spam. I might care if it is the OS I am going to be running new flightsims and autosims... Anti-MS spam? Are you sure? Did you read the post? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Ummm, Number 327, you can go back to your cell now. > Who ***ing cares? > What is the point of this post, really? It's just anti-Microsoft spam. > -- > Dave Kerr, #327 -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

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> >Who ***ing cares? > >What is the point of this post, really? It's just anti-Microsoft spam. > I might care if it is the OS I am going to be running new flightsims > and autosims... Anti-MS spam? Are you sure? Did you read the > post?

Yeah, while watching DVDs I really give a shit whether Windows 98 is working... NOT. Give me a break. This is so off topic its unbelievable that anyone is defending it as being worthy of discussion. -- Dave Kerr, #327

Please explain why you are having on problems with GPL. -- mark "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track." F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm Remove us here and there to mail me. I run Win98 final release and have had no probs with GPL or any progs. In fact, everything in Windows seems to run somewhat faster. -- Regards, Ed Medlin www.edmedlin.netminds.com Columnist, Software Critics Unlimited www.softwarecritic.com >I run GPL on Win98 RC0, but I have to delete some files and calibrate the >wheel every time I start it. > >-Jan Otto > Mike, This post is not off topic. Since I went over to 98 I can't run >CPR or GPL. > > :-( :-( :-( :-( > > -- > > mark > "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's >about going just slow enough to stay on the track." > > > >

John

... ... Really? Im using Win98 and I love it compared to clunky ole 95. On the whole, there is no slowdown in performance for me. (PII-266, 64MB edo) I am using fat32 on my drives which, while making scandisk disk defraggers a little slower, it also saves me hundreds of MB. OSR2, which I also had, would regularly bluescreen with a FAT error due to the fact that its emulation for the support of fat32 drives is far from perfect. Windows explorer takes no more time than it did in 95. ... Its time we face up to the fact that 16-bit DOS games will be phased out for the release of the 64-bit OS sometime shortly after the year 2000. WinNT has already forgone the compatibility with 16-bit programs in the name of stability. If you dont like it, sorry, but thats whats coming in the industry. before. I find that my box is more stable than it was under OSR2. Whereas I used to have a daily reboot, (i use my computer A LOT, and leave it running all the time) I now only find myself with a hard crash about once per week. Explorer errors, which were a seemingly hourly occurance under OSR2 (well, OK, daily) now only occur on average 2-3 times per week. Im not putting in the big pitch for MS here. I does crash occasionally, as i stated, lacking the stability of NT or linux, but all in all its a BIG STEP UP from windows 95 Rob

says... I agree wholeheartedly, but unfortunately I worked in gov't run institutions for the last 5 years (finally got so disgusted I quit in November of last year), and the IS people were on the whole good, but there were a few who were widely feared and despised by the workers. They would show up at your station and ridicule and belittle the user who called in with a problem, no matter how big/small/innocent/stupid the problem really was. I had one woman (who later admitted she was suffering from burnout and quit) who came to replace my monitor which had an awful high-pitched whine. After replacing it, she actually said, "Now that your monitor stopped whining, maybe you will too.". Friendly person - she wasn't joking either. She quit the next month. As I said, there was one individual in the support area who was an absolute godsend. He was brilliant as well as personable and patient with the users. Unfortunately, his manager ended up transferring him as he could 'never get any work done, as he was always too busy helping the users'. Umm, that was his job. Shows you why I ended up getting out of there and saying good-bye to that fat gov't pension. Glad to hear you have the patience to deal with people. It just sounded to me like the original poster was very much like this woman who obviously needed a career change.

> One thing about the Mac....love them or hate them, they do have a stable > OS. Oh, my PC is stable as hell...'cept it so damn hard to see what's going on with the power shut off. ;) Cheers! Marc -- (please change antispam to worldnet.att when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

|Well if you work 'desktop support' then with your attitude I'm certainly |***y glad I'm not one of your customers! | |It would be nioce, however, to be one of your bosses because i'd |definitely give you a kick up the arse for your 'customer relations'. Well, he isn't working with "one of his customer's" here, probably venting some of the pent-up frustration that naturally comes with the job.

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|> |> < snip bunch of ***> |> |> Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? |> What a bunch of crap. |> |> I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this |> kind of crying all the time, | |-- |Regards, |Bruce. |---------- |The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- |http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

*SNIP* Don't worry about Windows 9x compaired to anything like WinNT. MS has (very quietly, and only to developers) already announced that there will be NO more Windows 9x type products. They are moving to a WinNT product for the consumer. Three levels, WinNT Enterprise (For BIG companies, PanAm, Dell, etc etc) WinNT Server (For small to mid sized companies) and finaly WinNT Workstation (for the home user). Yes, all names we are familiar with. Brett (TEN ID - Elrioch) "Close only counts in horse shoes and hand gernades." "Only one can win. 40 some odd guys are going to go home losers."

whats the point whit this DVD stuff anyway !? in win98 it works better then EVER ! ok, u might find minor or not so minor problems, but everything will be smooth as the product hits the stores, all the companys making native drivers for w98, or making repaires for they product to run miles better under a faster more stable opsystem ! Tilus

>I run GPL on Win98 RC0, but I have to delete some files and calibrate the >wheel every time I start it. ***...stop writing suggestons about problems whit RC0, 1, 2, 3 and ANY betas !!! Win98 is finished, if u wanna use it, use the final version ! Tilus how the hell can u cry about an unfinished ( VERY early beta ) version of an OP system...!?

Patience? Yeah...i s'pose so. That and a well-bitten tongue!! :o) > Glad to hear you have the patience to deal with people. It just sounded > to me like the original poster was very much like this woman who > obviously needed a career change. -- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

You *really* do have a problem relating to other people, don't you?

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> ***...stop writing suggestons about problems whit RC0, 1, 2, 3 and ANY > betas !!! > Win98 is finished, if u wanna use it, use the final version ! > Tilus > how the hell can u cry about an unfinished ( VERY early beta ) version of an > OP system...!?

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

HAAAA!! Now that IS "stability"!!

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> > One thing about the Mac....love them or hate them, they do have a stable > > OS. > Oh, my PC is stable as hell...'cept it so damn hard to see what's > going on with the power shut off. ;) > Cheers! > Marc > -- > (please change antispam to worldnet.att when replying) > Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com > The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com > * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

> < snip bunch of ***> > Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? > What a bunch of crap. Actually when you cycle power with delays in-between power-down and power-up it is quite conceivable to get this situation. Heat does not dissipate instantaneously. Initially when starting the system up and running over a period of time you will reach an equilibrium point where the CPU temperature remains relatively constant. When you shut power down, there is still heat that needs to be dissipated from the CPU. This will result in an increase in the CPU's temperature before it decreases because the external cooling (the fan) is not running. Then when power is applied again, it again takes time to dissipate the heat back to the equilibrium state. (Note my temperature reference is always the surface of the CPU chip). I am not an expert in thermodynamics. Someone with a better schooling in this subject can probably explain the how's and why's better than I can. -- Signature Caught up in Committee Committee not come out with changes yet Never give someone a gun unless you are sure which way they will point it - Jeffrey Sinclair - By Any means Necessary - Babylon 5

Evidentally not an expert at reading either.... You have read the newsgroup title? Isn't it about time this boring, "anorak" thread died.

Your pretty on the ball. Actually if you want to learn more about heatsinks of on that subject this is the page to go to... [link lost in import]

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>> < snip bunch of ***> >> Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? >> What a bunch of crap. >Actually when you cycle power with delays in-between power-down >and power-up it is quite conceivable to get this situation. Heat does not >dissipate instantaneously. Initially when starting the system up and >running over a period of time you will reach an equilibrium point where >the CPU temperature remains relatively constant. When you shut power >down, there is still heat that needs to be dissipated from the CPU. This >will result in an increase in the CPU's temperature before it decreases >because the external cooling (the fan) is not running. Then when power is >applied again, it again takes time to dissipate the heat back to the >equilibrium state. >(Note my temperature reference is always the surface > of the CPU chip). >I am not an expert in thermodynamics. Someone with a better schooling >in this subject can probably explain the how's and why's better than I >can. >-- >Signature Caught up in Committee >Committee not come out with changes yet >Never give someone a gun unless you are sure which way >they will point it - Jeffrey Sinclair - By Any means Necessary - Babylon >5

>You *really* do have a problem relating to other people, don't you? No, i just feel its like a ppl who says: - hey, xy car is a piece of shit, mine is wont even start, so i know how is it.. meanwhile he got his car for free many years ago, and he doesnt even changes oil for a singe time ! Tilus sorry for the bad engilsh, i hope u know what i mean...

> [some needless abuse] I recognise that tone, yes... it's the BOFH !!! -- UK.

Did you mention he calls himself "professional" without mentioning Linux? Now what a professional is that? ;-) Uwe

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>Well if you work 'desktop support' then with your attitude I'm certainly >***y glad I'm not one of your customers! >It would be nioce, however, to be one of your bosses because i'd >definitely give you a kick up the arse for your 'customer relations'. >> < snip bunch of ***> >> Your thermol sensor says your running hot because of so many reboots? >> What a bunch of crap. >> I work desktop support for a large healthcare company and I see this >> kind of crying all the time, >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >---------- >The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- >http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

-- Spam-proof e-mail: Uwe Schuerkamp <hoover at telemedia . de> http://www.telemedia.de/~hoover ////// Phone: +49-5241-80-10-66 Best of Scottish Folk: http://home.pages.de/~nsg >>> Blue Ribbon Campaign: Support Free Speech on the Internet <<<

% Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead of % doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've % upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the % customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a new % OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy as % zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. % As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2! Sorry, but I did the 3.1 upgrade to 95 without a hitch. I am also a IT Tech specialist. As a matter of fact I am still running this configuration (upgraded 2 motherboards in the process all with the same upgrade Win95). I have heard horror stories about upgrading MB's without re-installing Win95. No problem if you know what your are doing. I would suggest Best Buy send their Techs to a proper training school. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Obviously more people care than you think. So your the only one who doesnt

school. LOL! Jeff 'JR' Euclid Blackhole Motorsports http://www.ivga.com/bhmotorsports TEN/NROS ID: JR_Euclid ICQ# 276650 ********************************************** He/She who laughs last thinks slowest. ********************************************** >% Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead of >% doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've >% upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the >% customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a new >% OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy as

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>% zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. >% As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2! >Sorry, but I did the 3.1 upgrade to 95 without a hitch. I am also a IT >Tech specialist. As a matter of fact I am still running this >configuration (upgraded 2 motherboards in the process all with the same >upgrade Win95). I have heard horror stories about upgrading MB's >without re-installing Win95. No problem if you know what your are >doing. I would suggest Best Buy send their Techs to a proper training >school. >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'd NEVER let a Best Buy or other misc. electronics store TOUCH my computer, let alone upgrade an OS. Thank you, but i'll do it myself. :-)

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>>>I would suggest Best Buy send their Techs to a proper training >school. >LOL! >Jeff 'JR' Euclid >Blackhole Motorsports >http://www.ivga.com/bhmotorsports >TEN/NROS ID: JR_Euclid >ICQ# 276650 >********************************************** >He/She who laughs last thinks slowest. >********************************************** >>% Sounds to me like your first mistake was "upgrading" off of 95 istead >of >>% doing a new install on a formated drive. As a tech at Best Buy i've >>% upgraded hundreds of computers from 3.1 to 95. And without fail, all the >>% customers that chose to "upgrade" had poor results. You cant expect a >new >>% OS to run at its best when it cant start off with a fresh install. Buy >as >>% zip drive, back you games, documents up, and start fresh. >>% As for the DOS problems, I havnt run a DOS game since ICR2! >>Sorry, but I did the 3.1 upgrade to 95 without a hitch. I am also a IT >>Tech specialist. As a matter of fact I am still running this >>configuration (upgraded 2 motherboards in the process all with the same >>upgrade Win95). I have heard horror stories about upgrading MB's >>without re-installing Win95. No problem if you know what your are >>doing. I would suggest Best Buy send their Techs to a proper training >>school. >>-- >>**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* >> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=