** Papyrus CART Rumors **

News and Rumors... Sim Racing News: http://www.simnews.com -- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:11:22 -0700, "Marc J. Nelson" >News and Rumors... These are very sad news... I was expecting so much from this title after seeing how good the physics engine is in GPL... A. Renault

four points: one, who exactly is/are, "Reliable sources." This is suspect because I don't know who these sources are, so I don't know if they are reliable. In my position I am the third person in the line of information. The story was passed from Papy to this Reliable source to SRN to me. After 3 or four passes things can change. Think about it: if someone says, "A friend of a friend of a friend told me XX," does that mean much? two, even if Papy has changed their mind, they can change it back. We all know that in the comp industry what is said one day, even if a company means it, can change the next. three, we already knew that work on CART2 wound not begin untill N3 was done, so this message is not anything new anyway. If this remains the plan its still not a problem b/c after GPL and N3 Papy will have done 2 sims with the current physics model, so *** a third together in little time should not be a problem. four, they still have the liscense, and will continue to untill 2000+

Just for the record, I was looking foward to an ICR3 based on GPL also (Just in case Papyrus is reading this...). Can we e-mail someone there to change their minds? John

>: I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. >yep!! I agree 100% George Sandman

BUMMER, of a major classification!! I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. -- Regards, --- Bruce. The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

: I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. yep!!

Agreed. Don

I'll answer as best I can... > four points: > one, who exactly is/are, "Reliable sources." This is suspect because I > don't know who these sources are, so I don't know if they are reliable. They're reliable to me, and that's all that matters. I don't simply place a placard with "Mr. News" on my shirt, and I don't write whatever I please and hide behind the "Fair Use Act." If this info had come to me via someone I hadn't already know for quite a long time, then I would have dismissed it as "something overheard in the men's room." Also, if I were to post the originator's name, then don't you think Papy might be a little more than concerned? ;) This is true for nearly everything in verbal communications, and I'm sure this person didn't get an official Papy memo on the subject. None- theless, I simply posted the "gist" of the report, saying that the project has been canned, shelved, scrapped, etc. The rest of the post from me was obvious conjecture, as I used "may have been due..." rather than "this is the reason why, folks..." I was attempting to reason-out why they made this decision, since I know them (Papyrus) to be die_in_the_wool gearheads. I truly believe that if they had unlimited resources and funding, that we would see many other forms of racing, as well as strategy_game_add_ons like the ill-fated N2 Manager. This is true. As one Papyrus employee told me, "it ain't over 'til it's over." The plan was not to even begin work on it, that the CART thingy is dead (in any current or future form) from the drawing boards of the Papy sim machine. Company's generally don't change their minds overnight tho, and tend to plan in either 6-month or 1-year down_the_road. This would mean that a future CART title is unlikely after N3, but doesn't mean that they can't do it after a following title, or perhaps simply re- light the CART-flame for a X-mas/Spring '99 date. Having the license doesn't mean that a title is eminent...What it means is that they're getting smarter, and aren't about to let others steal_ their_lunch for future rights. Yellow Journalism it isn't. Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

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> >: I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. > >yep!! > I agree 100% > George Sandman

Well, I'll add my name here to :) GIVE US CART 2 PAPY! PS - this could be the longest thread in ras history! PSS - if true, Geoff Crammond must be rubbing his hands together! PSSS - next, "Crammond scraps GP3"?????????

snip > > four, they still have the liscense, and will continue to untill 2000+ > Having the license doesn't mean that a title is eminent...What it means > is that they're getting smarter, and aren't about to let others steal_ > their_lunch for future rights. This sucks as much as the license Sega had on Daytona. Even more, because they at least used their license (although on a stupid arcade racer), while Papy puts it in the drawer?! They are lucky, I'm already ***ed to GPL... l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

"Need" it? Hardly likely.....I really need another quality racing simulation like a hole in the head, for crying out loud! There aren't enough hours in the day as it is without having to find more for such things as GPL, then NASCAR3, ICR3/CART2 and GP3. -- Regards, --- Bruce. The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Tell you what Papyrus, How about turning CART 3 into a "linux" project? If you are short of resources, there are some cracker artists out here in r.a.s. land (see the enhanced ICR2 Rendition tracks and the car sets), there are some cracker "crackers" out there see the enhancements for NASCAR2 from the pits. There are even some cracker AI enhancers out there. Alot of this work could be done with out anyone getting the whole package in developement (except for the AI stuff). Alot of the art work and 3do stuff could be done by farming it out to those who have been supplying enhancements all along without the code ever leaving Papy headquarters. That could save them a nickle or two.... Yeh, I know, it's a pipe dream, but it could be doable. Papy needs the help, but alot of the really talented people are already employed or have roots else where in the world. Else we all would have answered their call for assistance by moving to Massachusetts. But we are devoted to racing sims just like the "real" employess of Papyrus. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> > Please Papy, we need ICR3! > "Need" it? > Hardly likely.....I really need another quality racing simulation like a > hole in the head, for crying out loud! There aren't enough hours in the > day as it is without having to find more for such things as GPL, then > NASCAR3, ICR3/CART2 and GP3.

Very likely... Your preferences just differ with mine: I drive N2 and GPL now, because they are great, but if there's a great CART sim, it will take all my racing time... l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> > Having the license doesn't mean that a title is eminent...What it means > > is that they're getting smarter, and aren't about to let others steal_ > > their_lunch for future rights. > This sucks as much as the license Sega had on Daytona. Even more, > because > they at least used their license (although on a stupid arcade racer), > while > Papy puts it in the drawer?! > They are lucky, I'm already ***ed to GPL... > l8er > ronny

I`m with you Ronny, having an attractive license like CART, and not using it is a rotten way to treat your fans, may be good business (it most certainly is) to sit on it, but it sucks, especially since they did a very good one in ICR2 and have an incredible game engine in GPL to make it even better. Hope they change their mind :-( Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy UncleGoy on TEN

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>"Need" it? >Hardly likely.....I really need another quality racing simulation like a >hole in the head, for crying out loud! There aren't enough hours in the >day as it is without having to find more for such things as GPL, then >NASCAR3, ICR3/CART2 and GP3. >-- >Regards, >--- >Bruce.

Know what you mean (Yawn). What with GPL and a baby - not sure which is the most demanding! Tony

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> > >: I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. > > >yep!! > > I agree 100% > > George Sandman > Well, I'll add my name here to :) GIVE US CART 2 PAPY!

You guessed it! Another Yep from me... ;^) Now who starts the petition to Papy? l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I wouldn't.

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>> News and Rumors... >> Sim Racing News: http://www.simnews.com >BUMMER, of a major classification!! >I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. >-- >Regards, >--- >Bruce. >The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- >http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Yes forward my vote to Papyrus for CART! I'd rather see CART 2 (icr3) than N3. Dave Henrie

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> News and Rumors... > Sim Racing News: http://www.simnews.com > -- > (please remove '_*_' when replying) > Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com > The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com > * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

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> > > >: I'd rather see CART than NASCAR3. > > > >yep!! > > > I agree 100% > > > George Sandman > > Well, I'll add my name here to :) GIVE US CART 2 PAPY! > You guessed it! Another Yep from me... ;^) > Now who starts the petition to Papy? > l8er > ronny > -- > How to get rid of censorship in German game releases > <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

A definite YEP from me too! -- _ , ,----, ______________ _._ .___(_)|\=-n---_._\____| ____________ _./ _ \"-,---------,--/ _ \// Kevin Lee ,-=,( (_) ) | HONDA | ( (_) ) Go Tracy #26! '---'-\___/--'---------'--\___/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You've made some pertinent points, Michael. Ten years ago the type of people who are involved in projects such as "The Sim Project" would have banded together, produced a racing simulation, found a publisher and, riding on the huge success of the end product, would have registered themselves as "Papyrus." Ironic, isn't it? -- Regards, --- Bruce. The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

% > Well, I'll add my name here to :) GIVE US CART 2 PAPY! % You guessed it! Another Yep from me... ;^) % Now who starts the petition to Papy? Not that it would do much good. I think what will do some good is if GPL really sells well (though I think NASCAR3 will and can out sell GPL). Then, the bean counters may re-evaluate the situation and give Papyrus some more money to get a team together. The real shame is that having tasted the fruit of GPL and then have CART kicked from the garden really hurts! I mean a CART sim that would put all other such sims to shame (and I am including all of Papy's CART sims)! God, what the hell did we do to to you to deserve this? I guess we should all change our names to Job.... ??? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I agree with Geo! God speed, Loren Team S/\\//\TS

I say Kill N3. Do ICR3 insted. I would rather have ICR or CART over Nascar any day.

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>News and Rumors... >Sim Racing News: http://www.simnews.com >-- >(please remove '_*_' when replying) >Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com >The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

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> % > Well, I'll add my name here to :) GIVE US CART 2 PAPY! > % You guessed it! Another Yep from me... ;^) > % Now who starts the petition to Papy? > Not that it would do much good. I think what will do some good is if > GPL really sells well (though I think NASCAR3 will and can out sell > GPL). Then, the bean counters may re-evaluate the situation and give > Papyrus some more money to get a team together. > The real shame is that having tasted the fruit of GPL and then have CART > kicked from the garden really hurts! I mean a CART sim that would put > all other such sims to shame (and I am including all of Papy's CART sims)! > God, what the hell did we do to to you to deserve this? I guess we > should all change our names to Job.... ???

You know, this just does not add up for me. If Papy's resources are limited then why would they spend the dollars on the CART License. Papy's resources dwindling????? LOL. I am begining to think this whole thing is just nonsense to be honest! I am not saying that Marc is pulling our leg, but I think somewhere up the info chain there is a little leg pulling going on.

Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing sometime in 1999. The as-yet-unnamed product will be based on the physics system that will debut in Grand Prix Legends. As always, I'm more than happy to do my best to confirm or deny any rumors that arise concerning Papyrus products. (although I obviously can't always comment on everything) I am just an email away. Mike Lescault Producer Papyrus/Sierra Sports

Thank goodness. Mike, you just saved this ng several millions of dollars in Prozac! Now that the conjecture is over, who's going to be the first to moan about how loooooooong the wait is going to be? Kurt

I think we should all thank Mike for clearing this up. This is great news, although as always it will not come fast enough for this impatient group. Papyrus remains tops IMHO Tony

[snip] Hurrah! That's jolly good news, Mike. Delighted to hear it. Fantastic in fact. Now say the word "telemetry" over and over and over until you are brainwashed into doing something about it. :-) Mike.

Hi Mike, Thanks for the update, as well as putting to rest the rumor. Looking forward to this one! =) Cheers! Marc

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> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing > sometime in 1999. The as-yet-unnamed product will be based on the > physics system that will debut in Grand Prix Legends. > As always, I'm more than happy to do my best to confirm or deny any > rumors that arise concerning Papyrus products. (although I obviously > can't always comment on everything) I am just an email away. > Mike Lescault > Producer > Papyrus/Sierra Sports

-- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Whew!!!! Great news. Now I can wear a belt, shave, and be trusted in the same room with loaded firearms. Jake Myers Snake Racing TSP MIRacing "If we all thought the same, nobody would think"

> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing > sometime in 1999. The as-yet-unnamed product will be based on the > physics system that will debut in Grand Prix Legends. This is great! I almost bought CPR a few days ago (they have it in the cheap bin in Germany already), this shows how desperate I am for a CART sim... ;^) Your adress went into my address book in a nano second... l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing woohoo!!!!! we have to wait?doh! -Homer S.

Hi Byron, > You know, this just does not add up for me. If Papy's resources are > limited then why would they spend the dollars on the CART License. > Papy's resources dwindling????? LOL. I am begining to think this whole > thing is just nonsense to be honest! I am not saying that Marc is > pulling our leg, but I think somewhere up the info chain there is a > little leg pulling going on. According to what Mr. Lescault wrote, we may indeed have a new CART sim under the tree in the future. I would like to point out however, that *sometime in 1999* is still a long way off, and Mike said *plans to*, which doesn't translate to *we're currently working on it* (NASCAR Mgr. comes to mind). Also, obtaining licenses and internal resources (read: human talent) have very little to do with one another, except that if you've only got so much cash, then something may have to give; or perhaps the the company can't afford to take a guy off one of the current teams (designers), and then place him on another. There's also the problem when you lose some key-talent, as in the case of Papyrus, they've lost several over the past couple years, and may not have had either the time, or the *resources* to hire *experienced* personnel. Don't mean to spoil the party...I'm just playin' Devil's Advocate. =) Cheers! Marc BTW, *leg_pulling* refers to when someone is giving false info (as in a joke), in order to garner a desired response. No leg pulling/nonsense by me, or anyone else I've spoken to. -- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

ROFL!!!!! -- Regards, --- Bruce. The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

The inhabitants of the entire Universe, including Tasmania, the Falkland Islands and, to a lesser extent, Kentucky, all bow in the general direction of Papyrus and chant three times, "Mike is Mighty!" Note! Your honorary knighthood, specially prepared by Her Majesty, Queen Bessie of Buckinghuge Palace, is on its way via Air Express. says... -- Regards, --- Bruce. The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

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> > Tell you what Papyrus, How about turning CART 3 into a "linux" project? > > If you are short of resources, there are some cracker artists out here > > in r.a.s. land ................. > You've made some pertinent points, Michael. > Ten years ago the type of people who are involved in projects such as > "The Sim Project" would have banded together, produced a racing > simulation, found a publisher and, riding on the huge success of the end > product, would have registered themselves as "Papyrus." > Ironic, isn't it?

Developing a sim from scratch cannot be compared with enhancing an already existingsim, altough I respect Michael for making the best AI for NASCAR2! Even the The Touring Car project from the Pits is nothing more then replacing some pcx and soundfiles. Changing the physics model is a different story, and that's where the real talented people like David Kaemner and Geoff Crammond jump in and leave the rest of the simracing world a long way behind. Regards, Harald

You should be taken out and shot. How could you even consider such a thing? Why I'd give up sim racing altogether before I would resort to such a drastic step. Hell, I'd go back to Pole Position before CPR. :o) Dave http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340

% According to what Mr. Lescault wrote, we may indeed have a new CART sim % under the tree in the future. I would like to point out however, that % *sometime in 1999* is still a long way off, and Mike said *plans to*, % which doesn't translate to *we're currently working on it* (NASCAR Mgr. % comes to mind). Marc, I thought this was the "time-line" along for CART. Let's see they have GPL, Reno Air, and NASCAR3 to get done... Then they will move on to CART. With the projects in the hopper, 1999 only makes sense. My wild guess is 3rd Quarter 1999. By then their new sim engine should be finely tuned and honed and David will be able to produce a CART sim that is getting ever closer to his ideal racing simulation. Maybe in between they can continue with the Air racing sim and release a Hot-Air Balloon racing sim! ;~) % There's also the problem when you lose some key-talent, as in the case % of Papyrus, they've lost several over the past couple years, and may % not have had either the time, or the *resources* to hire *experienced* % personnel. This could be the biggest problem for them. The better their products the more the competition will bid to lure Papy's team away. % Don't mean to spoil the party...I'm just playin' Devil's Advocate. =) An apology for the Devil-it must be remembered that we have only heard one side of the case. God has written all the books. Samuel Butler (1835-1902), English author. Notebooks, "Higgledy-Piggledy" (1912). The devil is an optimist if he thinks he can make people worse than they are. Karl Kraus (1874-1936), Austrian satirist. Die Fackel, no. 277/78 (Vienna, 31 March 1909; repr. in Thomas Szasz, Anti-Freud: Karl Kraus's Criticism of Psychoanalysis and Psychiatry, ch. 8, 1976). Needs must, when the devil drives! (unknown) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% Developing a sim from scratch cannot be compared with enhancing an already % existingsim, altough I respect Michael for making the best AI for NASCAR2! % Even the The Touring Car project from the Pits is nothing more then replacing % some pcx and soundfiles. Changing the physics model is a different story, and % that's where the real talented people like David Kaemner and Geoff Crammond % jump in and leave the rest of the simracing world a long way behind. Wholeheartedly agree. If it weren't for both David and Geoff, I highly doubt we would be seeing the quality of racing sims slowly, but surely, increase. Even CPR must be applauded for attempting to reach this level of excellence. And Papyrus's new physics model (along with it's client/server modelling) should raise that bar even higher. Geoff may need to rethink his "evolution" of GP3 as Papyrus seems to have transformed their product into a new life form that will start evolving 2 or 3 levels above any current racing sim creature. But, if Papyrus ever needs some people to do some of the "grunt work", art, testing, "tweaking" and "smoothing" the rough edges, there are plenty of talented folks out there that would be more than happy to dedicate some time to the effort. You must realize that these talented folks (on the most part) developed this knowledge and skill without any access to the confidential coding routines. Besides, this would allow Papy to concentrate more of their resources on the dynamics of their engine. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> >I almost bought CPR a few days ago (they have it in the cheap bin in > >Germany already), this shows how desperate I am for a CART sim... ;^) > You should be taken out and shot. How could you even consider such a thing? > Why I'd give up sim racing altogether before I would resort to such a drastic > step. Hell, I'd go back to Pole Position before CPR. > :o)

Well, I'd expected harsh reactions to my evil temptation, but getting shot is a bit tough... You're a member of the NRA? ;^) l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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> Thank goodness. Mike, you just saved this ng several millions of dollars in > Prozac! > Now that the conjecture is over, who's going to be the first to moan about how > loooooooong the wait is going to be? > Kurt

Not me, just knowing that they are going to put that license into good use is enough for me, yeah right :-) Thx Mike Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy UncleGoy on TEN

> This sucks as much as the license Sega had on Daytona. Even more, > because > they at least used their license (although on a stupid arcade racer), > while > Papy puts it in the drawer?! It's only a shaft to the consumer if it's an _exclusive_ license that they choose not to use. I didn't think Papy's Cart license was an exclusive deal. If it's not exclusive, then all they did was pay some money for something they don't end up using. Nothing prevents someone else from securing a license and delivering a product anymore than if Papy did nothing. If it is exclusive and they elect not to use it, I suspect that Cart will have some right of recision in fairly short order (assuming their lawyers weren't incompetents; given the amount of *recent* experience their lawyers have received, I'd imagine them to be fairly "current"... :-) ) ---Jim

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>> <BR> >> Thank goodness. Mike, you just saved this ng several millions of dollars >in<BR> >> Prozac!<BR> >><BR> >> Now that the conjecture is over, who's going to be the first to moan about >how<BR> >> loooooooong the wait is going to be?<BR> >> <BR> >> Kurt<BR> ><BR> >Not me, just knowing that they are going to put that license into good<BR> >use is enough for me, yeah right :-)<BR> ><BR> >Thx Mike<BR> ><BR> >Beers and cheers<BR> >(uncle) Goy<BR> >UncleGoy on TEN<BR> ></HTML>

I think I can wait, jeez we've got F1RS, ICR2/CART,N2,TOCA and soon to come,GPL, and to top it all off, there are now CART tracks and carsets available for GP2. Who's got time for all this racin'! Don (patiently waiting to lap Elkhart Lake in Mikey's Swift...)

% It's only a shaft to the consumer if it's an _exclusive_ license that % they choose not to use. I didn't think Papy's Cart license was an % exclusive deal. If it's not exclusive, then all they did was pay some % money for something they don't end up using. Nothing prevents someone % else from securing a license and delivering a product anymore than if % Papy did nothing. If I remember the various press releases correctly, CART divvied up its licenses to various "platforms". I would assume that Papyrus' license would be for PC based sims. % If it is exclusive and they elect not to use it, I suspect that Cart % will have some right of recision in fairly short order (assuming their % lawyers weren't incompetents; given the amount of *recent* experience % their lawyers have received, I'd imagine them to be fairly % "current"... :-) ) % ---Jim -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>% It's only a shaft to the consumer if it's an _exclusive_ license that >% they choose not to use. I didn't think Papy's Cart license was an >% exclusive deal. If it's not exclusive, then all they did was pay some >% money for something they don't end up using. Nothing prevents someone >% else from securing a license and delivering a product anymore than if >% Papy did nothing. > If I remember the various press releases correctly, CART divvied up its > licenses to various "platforms". I would assume that Papyrus' license > would be for PC based sims.

I'm not even sure it's that exclusive - I thought I read somewhere that Microsoft has version 2 of CPR in the works, and still has a license until sometime in 1999. If it's true, then hopefully the competition will be good for the consumer. Andy Backa The only skills I have the patience to learn are - Calvin and Hobbes Chewey Pages: Looking for a new home

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> >% It's only a shaft to the consumer if it's an _exclusive_ license that > >% they choose not to use. I didn't think Papy's Cart license was an > >% exclusive deal. If it's not exclusive, then all they did was pay some > >% money for something they don't end up using. Nothing prevents someone > >% else from securing a license and delivering a product anymore than if > >% Papy did nothing. > > If I remember the various press releases correctly, CART divvied up its > > licenses to various "platforms". I would assume that Papyrus' license > > would be for PC based sims. > I'm not even sure it's that exclusive - I thought I read somewhere that > Microsoft has version 2 of CPR in the works, and still has a license until > sometime in 1999. If it's true, then hopefully the competition will be good > for the consumer. > Andy Backa The only skills I have the patience to learn are > - Calvin and Hobbes > Chewey Pages: Looking for a new home

Didnt you all read Mike Lescault's letter that was posted in here? He stated that Papy will be releasing the next version of cart racing sometime in 1999... Brian Fox -- B's ICR2 Rendition Ready Track Enhancing Project BB&B Track Editing http://www.dclink.com/racer/index.htm The Originator of ICR2 Rendition Patches!

> Didnt you all read Mike Lescault's letter that was posted in here? He stated that Papy > will be releasing the next version of cart racing sometime in 1999... > Brian Fox What Mike said was "...*planning* on releasing the sequel...", and not "...*will* be releasing the sequel..." =) Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Hi hope that the physical model is as sophisticated as GPL... I must say... GPL is just incredible.... >> Didnt you all read Mike Lescault's letter that was posted in here? He stated that Papy

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>> will be releasing the next version of cart racing sometime in 1999... >> Brian Fox >What Mike said was "...*planning* on releasing the sequel...", and not >"...*will* be releasing the sequel..." =) >Cheers! >Marc >-- >(please remove '_*_' when replying) >Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com >The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *