CPR vs. F1RS

I picked up F1RS about a week ago and have been thrilled with it. Graphics are top notch, AI is good, configurablity is good--basically, it's one hot game. So, yesterday, I loaded up CPR (which I had retired after seeing F1RS) for what I thought would be one last hurrah, BUT...despite CPR's lousy AI and duller graphics, compared to F1RS, it absolutely excels in giving the rush of speed. I pulled up Surfer's Paradise (using the excellent modified track available at http://members.home.net/getzen/ and was dizzied by the sensation of speed. Also the sound in CPR, after playing F1RS, is sooo much better at conveying a feeling of acceleration. After seeing F1RS, I thought CPR would quietly erode away on my hard drive, but now I'm going to give it a second chance. Now that I'm over F1RS's eye candy, game play and the thrill of racing has, one again, become most important. All CPR needs at this point is some beefed up AI and improved frame rate for it to jump to the front. Dave

What kind of system are you using? I get a better sense of speed on F1 Racing (unless I'm doing ovals on CPR, which actually ARE faster...) also - the enigine sounds for F1 Racing (which I agree think are terrible) can be changed. There are a number of sounds people have created and you can download them from most any F1 Racing site. Tom

Pentium 200MMX with Voodoo2 I'll have to look into those new sounds! As far as sense of speed, I'm not talking about the actual speed of the cars, but rather the impression of speed. I definitely think CPR has a substantial edge here. My guess is that it has to do with a combination of the sound, the jostling of the***pit, and perhaps even the head panning. When I'm accelerating up a straight away, I just don't get the same sense of increasing speed in F1RS as I get in CPR. Don't get me wrong, F1RS is still amazing (and probably better overall), but in this area (and IMHO), CPR is just better. Dave

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>What kind of system are you using? I get a better sense of speed on F1 >Racing >(unless I'm doing ovals on CPR, which actually ARE faster...) also - the >enigine sounds for F1 Racing (which I agree think are terrible) can be >changed. There >are a number of sounds people have created and you can download them from >most any F1 Racing site. >Tom >> I picked up F1RS about a week ago and have been thrilled with it. >Graphics >> are top notch, AI is good, configurablity is good--basically, it's one >hot >> game. So, yesterday, I loaded up CPR (which I had retired after seeing >> F1RS) for what I thought would be one last hurrah, BUT...despite CPR's >lousy >> AI and duller graphics, compared to F1RS, it absolutely excels in giving >the >> rush of speed. I pulled up Surfer's Paradise (using the excellent >modified >> track available at [link lost in import] and was dizzied by >the >> sensation of speed. Also the sound in CPR, after playing F1RS, is sooo >much >> better at conveying a feeling of acceleration. >> After seeing F1RS, I thought CPR would quietly erode away on my hard >drive, >> but now I'm going to give it a second chance. Now that I'm over F1RS's >eye >> candy, game play and the thrill of racing has, one again, become most >> important. All CPR needs at this point is some beefed up AI and improved >> frame rate for it to jump to the front. >> Dave

No, not true. Simply not true. I am a stuanch supporter of CPR , love the game, but in every area F1RS excels. The feeling of speed for me is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates even with the glide patch. F1RS *really* makes you -feel- the speed and on those straightaways when that 90 degree trun is approaching makes me pucker right up. I can actually RACE with a field of cars in F1RS an have a challenge, the AI in CPR is kamakazi at best and at worst a real hidernce, I just never got hte feeling these guys knew I was there. After a race I had nothing but gripes about the driuvers. In F1RS there is a real feeling of pride over having hung onto 10th place out of 12 cars when you had to hold off those last two cars and fight for that position. Passing in F1RS is a JOY! what a great rush when you see an opportunity a just grab it and it pays off! better still when the drive in front make just that little bit of a mistake and leaves a door open for you to accerlerate into - you can take it or leave it but they happen and they are great! A race in F1RS is really a race, sensation of speed is there for sure, the sound paks availalble are passable, but no great shakes IMHO, I like to swap them out a lot. But man, what a game! the most imerrsive SIM I have played in a LONG time (and F-15 is second - good days to be a gamer and speed freak) edk

I agree with you. The sounds of CART:PR are a 9/10 and F1RS are a 3/10. The new stereo sounds that fans have created are a gigantic improvement, but still only bring it up to a 5 or 6/10. The F1RS sounds (original or patched) don't have any timbre to them--they are just straight "noise." The CART:PR engine has distinctive idle, full throttle and cruising sounds as well as a vastly superior dynamic range in the recordings that were used. F1RS sounds like a saw not an internal combustion engine. The sense of speed in CART:PR is also superior. Although the graphics overall are superior in F1RS, including the critical how far up the road can you see clearly and how clearly can you see other cars, CART:PR's sensation of blasting past objects and walls is unsurpassed (with or without the Glide patch). However, a very fast machine is needed to get over the low frame-rate hurdle of CART:PR. With low frame rates, CART:PR just plain sucks. (I have a K6-233, Canopus Pure3D). If F1RS had the sounds from CART, it would rank a 96% on my scale (which ignores the horrid menu system). All it needs is to get rid of the "canned" spins that occur when you oversteer (a la GP2), since it is next to impossible to recover from the beginnings of a spin. I don't like doing a 180 at the very tail end of a slide when I am practically stopped by the time the car magically spins on some invisible axis and leaves me pointing the wrong way. With those gone, I would give it a 98%. CART:PR is a great driving experience if you have the track to yourself. The handling model is better than F1RS, the sounds are great, and the graphics are a bit blocky but make up for it in the sensation of speed department. The horrid AI and arm's length list of glaring bugs and unfinished features allow only a 65% in my books. >I picked up F1RS about a week ago and have been thrilled with it. Graphics >are top notch, AI is good, configurablity is good--basically, it's one hot >game. So, yesterday, I loaded up CPR (which I had retired after seeing >F1RS) for what I thought would be one last hurrah, BUT...despite CPR's lousy >AI and duller graphics, compared to F1RS, it absolutely excels in giving the >rush of speed. I pulled up Surfer's Paradise (using the excellent modified >track available at http://members.home.net/getzen/) and was dizzied by the >sensation of speed. Also the sound in CPR, after playing F1RS, is sooo much

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>better at conveying a feeling of acceleration. >After seeing F1RS, I thought CPR would quietly erode away on my hard drive, >but now I'm going to give it a second chance. Now that I'm over F1RS's eye >candy, game play and the thrill of racing has, one again, become most >important. All CPR needs at this point is some beefed up AI and improved >frame rate for it to jump to the front. >Dave

Where can I find a Glide patch for CPR? Thanks. > The feeling of speed for me is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates even > with the glide patch.

Your key phrase here is that "the feeling of speed ... is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates..." I am playing on Pentium 200MMX with the glide patch and a CL V2 12MB card, so frame rates are actually quite acceptable on CPR (~25 fps). If you are using a lower end machine, then I will most certainly agree that the feeling of speed would be lost. But I don't disagree that lousy frame rates in general are a CPR Achilles heel. Dave >No, not true. Simply not true. I am a stuanch supporter of CPR , love the >game, but in every area F1RS excels. >The feeling of speed for me is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates even >with the glide patch. F1RS *really* makes you -feel- the speed and on those >straightaways when that 90 degree trun is approaching makes me pucker right >up. I can actually RACE with a field of cars in F1RS an have a challenge, >the AI in CPR is kamakazi at best and at worst a real hidernce, I just never >got hte feeling these guys knew I was there. After a race I had nothing but >gripes about the driuvers. >In F1RS there is a real feeling of pride over having hung onto 10th place >out of 12 cars when you had to hold off those last two cars and fight for >that position. Passing in F1RS is a JOY! what a great rush when you see an >opportunity a just grab it and it pays off! better still when the drive in >front make just that little bit of a mistake and leaves a door open for you >to accerlerate into - you can take it or leave it but they happen and they >are great! A race in F1RS is really a race, sensation of speed is there for

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>sure, the sound paks availalble are passable, but no great shakes IMHO, I >like to swap them out a lot. >But man, what a game! the most imerrsive SIM I have played in a LONG time >(and F-15 is second - good days to be a gamer and speed freak) >edk

Try http://members.home.net/getzen/ Dave

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>Where can I find a Glide patch for CPR? >Thanks. >> The feeling of speed for me is lost in CPR due to the poor frame rates

even >> with the glide patch.

>All it needs is to get rid of the "canned" >spins that occur when you oversteer (a la GP2), since it is next to >impossible to recover from the beginnings of a spin. You say that the spins in F1RS are 'canned'. I don't find this. If my reactions are quick enough I have found my self moving in and out opp-locks though fast corners with loads of twitching - GRIN FACTOR 10! I also look at my CART:PR with a resigned expresion. I do want to play it, because of its sense of speed and driver feedback, but it is a pointless game without the AI. I hope that MS bring out a proper patch. BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be! Tony.

Oh absolutely. I have a P200MMX w/ a PURE 3D and a VIPER 330 both will do framerates in the high 50's when the***pit is turned of, but I want it on! I checkd the frame counter with the glide patch and still w/ the***pit on they were in the high20' s *maybe*, not good enough for me. I just finished a GP race weekend at SILVERSTONE and got beat bad (I hate it when you get into it with a passing driver and you wind up lossing there is virtually no way to come from behind if you sipn out) I was in 2nd for almost the whole thing. After it was all over I realized that F1RS will probably NEVER be off my harddrive until its somehow bested, I doubt it wil happen any time soon. FANTASTIC game edk

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>>All it needs is to get rid of the "canned" >>spins that occur when you oversteer (a la GP2), since it is next to >>impossible to recover from the beginnings of a spin. >You say that the spins in F1RS are 'canned'. I don't find this. If my >reactions are quick enough I have found my self moving in and out >opp-locks though fast corners with loads of twitching - GRIN FACTOR 10! >I also look at my CART:PR with a resigned expresion. I do want to play >it, because of its sense of speed and driver feedback, but it is a >pointless game without the AI. I hope that MS bring out a proper patch. >BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have >seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll >installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be! >Tony.

: BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have : seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll : installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be! I'd believe it. I upgraded to a P2 300 over the weekend and without the ***pit and force feedback turned off, at times I saw it push 58-60 with a voodoo1 card. I could run races with the***pit on and hold near 30 all the time with the exception of race start which was pretty painful. My question is, does a Voodoo 2 card do anything to improve this or is it that much of a CPU hog that it is still a processor problem? I'm thinking it is, but thought I'd ask.

% : BTW. I have a Pentium II 233 and a Canopus Pure 3D and with CART I have % : seen frame rates in the high 40s to low 50s (with triglide.dll % : installed) - I tell no lie but the frame rate counter might be! % I'd believe it. I upgraded to a P2 300 over the weekend and without the %***pit and force feedback turned off, at times I saw it push 58-60 with a % voodoo1 card. I could run races with the***pit on and hold near 30 all % the time with the exception of race start which was pretty painful. % My question is, does a Voodoo 2 card do anything to improve this or is it % that much of a CPU hog that it is still a processor problem? I'm thinking % it is, but thought I'd ask. In theory (according to the benchmarks) a Voodoo2 with a PII 300 should come close to doubling the frame rate. Of course this assumes that the 3dfx patch is fully optimized. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=