Gpl fast laps?

Ok all, I'm getting better at this sim now, and am managing the 1:10s. I was just wondering if maybe some of you faster ones out ther might post their laps to alt.binaries.simulators.autos? I know I'm easily capable of going faster, as I haven't yet completed a lap without some kind of a very scary moment, but really I think we could all do with a little help from the really fast people.. Oh, btw, before you all tell me to go to "the apex", I have and there is only 1 fast lap (1:08.80 I think) and that was using an auto transmission, and either he is *very* smooth, or he had braking and/or throttle help enabled too. Auto transmission, pah! thats for wimps, We real men can change our own gears! :-) Thanks Steve

There's really nothing wrong if one wants to use an auto trans. I don't think he use the "aids".. My blap so far is 1m08.5.. I will drop it tonight since Mr. Arnao and Mr. Wallac e are a wee bit quicker.. bTW, Mr. Arnao in the 1m07s.. In the beta builds, I think they are doing 1m06s What if he had no buttons? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hungry for NEWSGROUPS??? USE feedME.ORG Read and Post to 30,000 groups through feedME.ORG FREE FREE FREE http://www.feedME.ORG FREE FREE FREE ------------------------------------------------------------------

Done, although the lap isn't one of the faster ones (mine or "all time"). Smooth is fast, and the lap I posted was pretty smooth too. On some tracks it is faster to really go crazy, but The Glen is a very high speed track and carrying that speed out of the turns and along the straight is a big factor - that means smooth. It is fun to hang the tail out all the way through the loop though :-) Cheers! John

Chris Boll here, I did the lap on the apex (1:08.80 ) I just used auto transmission, but NO other aids. I`m now down at 1:08.50 but still not a perfect lap and as I saw there are a few guys already been faster. see ya Chris "Flying-C" Boll Motocross Maniacs http://www.geocities.com/~chboll/

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> Smooth is fast, and the lap I posted was pretty smooth too. On some > tracks it is faster to really go crazy, but The Glen is a very high > speed track and carrying that speed out of the turns and along the > straight is a big factor - that means smooth. It is fun to hang the > tail out all the way through the loop though :-) > Cheers! > John

How do you "hang the tail out" without spinning? Maybe it's me or maybe it's the frame rate but as soon as the back ends begins to step out, even slightly, I can't correct it in time (in the GP car). The few times I did it felt great and a couple of times I even managed to over correct and get that whiplash thing happening. I'm running a pent2-266 64M Matrox M2 with only some detail turned on, manual trans and no driver aids and my best times so far (only about 5 hours of driving) are 1:17, 1:18, and 1:25 for GP, GP2 and GP3 respectively. I find the Brabham easiest to drive, the Lotus is faster but more nervous and the Eagle is different! I have the hardest time getting into the 4th turn (the loop?) and final turn. Any advice you could offer? I go down two gears before the 4th turn and usually don't shift up again before the end of the left hand guard rail on the exit. Am I in the right gear? Should I go down three gears and shift mid turn? Any idea if the Millenium II card will be supported in the final version? Even if it's not I don't really care, I'll buy a 3dfx if I have to. Great sim, Papyrus are the best. Any help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks Alan Owens

How??? any hints? I'm down to the very low 1:10s now, but still make far too many mistakes... Can you lock your brakes if you try and are just being very careful (this is the best way to do it then I take it?). p.s. the auto transmission bit was a joke (juliandata didn't seem to understand) - thats why I put a smiley at the end of it. Steve

>How do you "hang the tail out" without spinning? Maybe it's me or maybe >it's the frame rate but as soon as the back ends begins to step out, >even slightly, I can't correct it in time (in the GP car). The few >times I did it felt great and a couple of times I even managed to over >correct and get that whiplash thing happening. Same here. I can correct very minor skids, but no way can I "hang the tail out". Joe

>How do you "hang the tail out" without spinning? Maybe it's me or maybe >it's the frame rate but as soon as the back ends begins to step out, >even slightly, I can't correct it in time (in the GP car). The few >times I did it felt great and a couple of times I even managed to over >correct and get that whiplash thing happening. The tail is breaking loose because you have lost traction at the rear of the car, hopefully gently because if the rear weight is moving quickly you're screwed. As the rear brakes loose, backing off the throttle decreases traction (engine braking) and slides the rear wider. Applying throttle brings the rotation of your rear tyres back up to the level of the road speed which increases traction and walks the back end into line with your forward direction. Therefore, to steer the car, back off the throttle. To control the back end, increase the throttle. It's just a matter of practice to learn how to walk that tightrope between too little throtte (engine braking and spin) and too much throttle (wheelspin and spin, or understeer and barrier). I have a feeling I haven't explained this very well, and it's because I'm trying to explain a feeling. It's like people who ask doctors if they have had an *** or not - if you don't know if you have had one, you haven't. In GPL if you don't know if you got it right, you didn't. When you walk the line and slide the tail around, balanced on throttle and steering you WILL now - it feels great! :-) You need to attack the race course pretty hard to achieve this (***footing around won't do it) and it's not the fastest way, but it looks seriously cool in a replay! For the loop I generally brake just slightly past the advertising board on the left hand side, drop two gears, ease off the brake as the car crests the hill (fronts go light and lock) then drop another gear with more braking before turn in. I usually have to have a slight countersteer tp catch the rear of the car which is still going too fast. The turn itself I treat as a double apex now I come to think about it, going in hot to drift _slightly_ wide, thus allowing a late apex and getting onto the throttle earlier for the long straight. Cheers! John

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> I have a feeling I haven't explained this very well, and it's because > I'm trying to explain a feeling. It's like people who ask doctors if > they have had an *** or not - if you don't know if you have had > one, you haven't. In GPL if you don't know if you got it right, you > didn't. When you walk the line and slide the tail around, balanced on > throttle and steering you WILL now - it feels great! :-) You need to > attack the race course pretty hard to achieve this (***footing > around won't do it) and it's not the fastest way, but it looks > seriously cool in a replay!

LOL. Very interesting way of puting things. This is the first sim I have driven where you need to have both enough throttle and not too much to avoid oversteer. If the old ICR2 habbit of backing right off the throttle (or worse still using the brakes) to get the car to turn creeps back in your history! Slightly Past the advertising Board???????? You must have better brakes than me or by the sounds of it better braking technique. I assume you mean you begin braking just after the sign disappears from view? Is this with the beta or the demo? If I was to begin braking after the sign disappeared I would have no chance of making the sweeper at all! Then again, I am still running in software mode and was running with track texture only for an excruciating 1.09.99 and upon turning track texture off for a few more fps got to a 1.09.45 with ease. I think I'll need to get a Rendition card this weekend to keep up with you guys :)))))

Yes, just as it leaves the screen on the left. I've wired my throttle and brake to different axes, and this helps car stability when braking. With both on one axis you are lifting right off the throttle AND going onto the brakes. Without telemetry or knowledge of the damping, and anti-dive on the car it's difficult to know, but that often sets up a "yo-yo" type effect which makes it very difficult to brake effectively. That's real world, so I'm not sure if it would apply in GPL - I presume so since the physics are _very_ detailed. This is with the demo. Software mode may be the problem, as I generally have a slight countersteer flick on the way into the turn. Rendition cards are pretty cheap even for a V2200, so it would be a very good buy. They're fairly good in D3D as well, so well worthwhile of the price is right. Cheers! John

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> > Slightly Past the advertising Board???????? You must have better > >brakes than me or by the sounds of it better braking technique. I assume > >you mean you begin braking just after the sign disappears from view? > Yes, just as it leaves the screen on the left. I've wired my throttle > and brake to different axes, and this helps car stability when > braking. With both on one axis you are lifting right off the throttle > AND going onto the brakes. Without telemetry or knowledge of the > damping, and anti-dive on the car it's difficult to know, but that > often sets up a "yo-yo" type effect which makes it very difficult to > brake effectively. That's real world, so I'm not sure if it would > apply in GPL - I presume so since the physics are _very_ detailed.

Interesting this! Looks like I need a new set of pedals :) Decided to get the Voodoo II and am ECSTATIC. Went from 1.09.45 to 1.08.22 in no time. Funny thing is I'm not nearly as good thru T2/T3 yet but the car is so much more controlable, particularly under brakes. I still need to begin braking before that sign disappears though :)

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> The tail is breaking loose because you have lost traction at the rear > of the car, hopefully gently because if the rear weight is moving > quickly you're screwed. > As the rear brakes loose, backing off the throttle decreases traction > (engine braking) and slides the rear wider. Applying throttle brings > the rotation of your rear tyres back up to the level of the road speed > which increases traction and walks the back end into line with your > forward direction. > Therefore, to steer the car, back off the throttle. To control the > back end, increase the throttle. It's just a matter of practice to > learn how to walk that tightrope between too little throtte (engine > braking and spin) and too much throttle (wheelspin and spin, or > understeer and barrier).

-some snipped- > Cheers! > John Many thanks John, I am getting the hang of it now. I have my times for the GP2 car down to 1:15:XX and the GP car down to 1:13.31 and I don't get that many opportunities to practice (the wife insists I eat dinner with the family). I'm not braking as late as you yet as I can't catch the back if I brake that late, but I'll just have to practice some more (such a hardship!) My impression was that if you started to lose the rear end that more throttle would break the wheels lose faster but I guess you are looking for a little more weight transfer to the rear without wheelspin. It's easy for me now in the GP2 car but the GP car is still a handful. Thanks again Alan (at work)

>My impression was that if you started to lose the rear end that more >throttle would break the wheels lose faster but I guess you are looking >for a little more weight transfer to the rear without wheelspin. What you describe is also a possibility, it just depends why you lost rear-end grip. - If you have wheelspin (wheels rotating too quickly for the road speed) then adding more throttle will spin you more quickly (since you are further reducing the available grip). This can be useful when you have surely spun and want to make sure the car spins enough so that you face the right way - boot the gas and increase the spin. - If you have downshifted too early or backed off the gas too much then your wheels will be unable to rotate quickly enough for the speed you are going, and that is why the rear starts to slide. Basically it has the same effect as pressing the brake. The GP car takes quite a bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it you'll be hooked. A full-on lap in the GP car is a real experience, and gives an immense feeling of achievement when you get a lap right. Keep at it! Cheers! John

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> What you describe is also a possibility, it just depends why you lost > rear-end grip. > - If you have wheelspin (wheels rotating too quickly for the road > speed) then adding more throttle will spin you more quickly (since you > are further reducing the available grip). This can be useful when you > have surely spun and want to make sure the car spins enough so that > you face the right way - boot the gas and increase the spin. > - If you have downshifted too early or backed off the gas too much > then your wheels will be unable to rotate quickly enough for the speed > you are going, and that is why the rear starts to slide. Basically it > has the same effect as pressing the brake. > Cheers! > John

Last night I ran a 1:11.42 in the GP car after only 6 laps!! And I know I didn't get it right. The little bit of oversteer going into the loop is manageable now, so I think I'm losing most of my time in the final few turns before the start/finish straight. More practice required! GPL is tough but fair. It seems to get better and better the more experience you gain. It's tough to know whether the rear-end is stepping out because you are carring in too much speed, engine revs are too low, or too high, too rapid a turn in, bad line, out of the groove, whatever. But that's the great thing about it. For the first time in a sim I'm learning a technique other then "point and squirt". I can run laps of Elkart Lake (not exactly point and squirt) in ICR2 under 1:45 with some consistancy but it's a wholely different and more rewarding experiance to run 1:11 in GPL. Thanks again for the advice. Go hard or go home! Alan

>GPL is tough but fair. It seems to get better and better the more >experience you gain. It's tough to know whether the rear-end is >stepping out because you are carring in too much speed, engine revs are >too low, or too high, too rapid a turn in, bad line, out of the groove, >whatever. It would be cool to have an analysis tool (in replay mode) that helped you find out what you did wrong. Joe

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> Last night I ran a 1:11.42 in the GP car after only 6 laps!! And I know > I didn't get it right. The little bit of oversteer going into the loop > is manageable now, so I think I'm losing most of my time in the final > few turns before the start/finish straight. More practice required! > GPL is tough but fair. It seems to get better and better the more > experience you gain. It's tough to know whether the rear-end is > stepping out because you are carring in too much speed, engine revs are > too low, or too high, too rapid a turn in, bad line, out of the groove, > whatever. But that's the great thing about it. For the first time in a > sim I'm learning a technique other then "point and squirt". I can run > laps of Elkart Lake (not exactly point and squirt) in ICR2 under 1:45 > with some consistancy but it's a wholely different and more rewarding > experiance to run 1:11 in GPL.

It's good to read this and I hope all those with complaints see it. It sure does get better with time! Sorry if John already covered this but as far as the loop goes, get braking done just as you hit the drop (or a little later if your good). Being in 3rd seems easier but I'm still not conviced it's faster than being in 2nd. In any case, as with all corners in GPL after braking, be on the gas a little just before or at the same time as turn in.