CPR Glide - anyone tried it yet?

Read on http://www.op3dfx.com that there is a "patch" for CPR that enables it to run in Glide mode on 3Dfx cards. Apparently all that was needed is a 50k .dll file, in which Microsoft excluded in order to lock customers into the Direct3D garbage. The company that coded the game (TRI) had it supporting Glide all along and Microsoft just declined it, disabled it, and shipped without it. You can get the .dll here (just drop it into the CPR folder and it will supposedly work): ftp://ftp.op3dfx.com/pub/game_patches/cart/Triglide.dll Wanted to hear anyones first impression. Any good? Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

I am curious if this really makes a difference. I would be afraid it would be the same diff as the N2 3dfx patch. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >Read on http://www.op3dfx.com that there is a "patch" for CPR that >enables it to run in Glide mode on 3Dfx cards. Apparently all that >was needed is a 50k .dll file, in which Microsoft excluded in order to >lock customers into the Direct3D garbage. >The company that coded the game (TRI) had it supporting Glide all >along and Microsoft just declined it, disabled it, and shipped without >it. >You can get the .dll here (just drop it into the CPR folder and it >will supposedly work): >ftp://ftp.op3dfx.com/pub/game_patches/cart/Triglide.dll >Wanted to hear anyones first impression. Any good? >Marc. >-------- >To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning >of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

<<Wanted to hear anyones first impression. Any good?>> I tried it. First, the file I downloaded had an .exe extension, so I had to change it to .dll because it was whorfed on Op3dfx's site. Just download it into your CPR directory, change your graphics options to Voodoo 3dfx and there it is... I noticed that objects in the distance seemed to remain and not come in and out of view. Just FYI, I have all eye-candy turned on to the max. The graphics didn't look terribly different from Direct3D, sadly. I only played for a few minutes at one track (Portland), however, so this was just an initial impression. It can't hurt to download it and try it, anyway. I just need to give it more time to play, though... Nick _______________________________________________________________ #6, #99 & #94 in the quest for the Cup SCOA, 1994 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra #728 My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ _______________________________________________________________

Maybe the people responsible for posting this patch at op3dfx.com (Sander Pillon, Jeremy Allford, Tony Gaylord) should just walk into MS and take over the board of directors since they care so much about us. I've had the Glide patch for a few months so please, no one try and tell me what a service they have done. I know exactly what the differences are between Glide and D3D. If these men want to make decisions for a company, they should earn a few dollars and start their own. Dave

I have it, and will try it tonight.......I'm curious to see if the frame rates are any better or worse......as well as the visual quality. I've got a 300mhz PII and Diamond Monster 3D, and I turn everything on to the max.....I've never gotten what I think would be an excellent frame rate given my system configuration. average rate is in the low 20's.......I'll see what the new glide support does for me. Craig Marcho http://www.cmpu.net/public/marcho/

So what you're saying is is that possibly got leaked out? This is not an official patch? If it's a beta I can understand, but it sounds like (since you've had it for a few months) those of us on this end all got screwed. I could have been enjoying CPR in Glide all this time... that really sucks on Microsoft's part... Pete Hawk What really get's me is that it's such a tiny dll file! (50k!)

So - as was posted earlier, it sounds as though Glide was built into the game - and then removed. A simple ".dll" file is no patch - is it? (experts, experts?). Someone said they dropped the patch in the CPR directory, and bam, a 3Dfx option apprears in one of the menus. Hmmmmmm...............boy, I can not wait to get home from work. Huk_Phin

>>Maybe the people responsible for posting this patch at op3dfx.com (Sander >>Pillon, Jeremy Allford, Tony Gaylord) should just walk into MS and take >over Could/nt hurt!! >>the board of directors since they care so much about us. I've had the Glide >>patch for a few months so please, no one try and tell me what a service >they >>have done. > So - as was posted earlier, it sounds as though Glide was built into the

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>game - and then removed. A simple ".dll" file is no patch - is it? >(experts, experts?). Someone said they dropped the patch in the CPR >directory, and bam, a 3Dfx option apprears in one of the menus. >Hmmmmmm...............boy, I can not wait to get home from work. >Huk_Phin

I may not have been as clear in my original post as I'd like to be. The people at op3dfx .com had no right to make this file public. I had the file because I beta tested. I'm a million miles away from being in a position to make decisions for MS. So is 3dfx.com. I only run my own company. There are others, and web sites, who could of released the file but chose not to because it simply was not their decision to make. If someone hacked into the op3dfx web site and edited it to say what the hacker wanted, the same people responsible for the file publication would be pissing their pants. Dave

While this is all true, at the same time Microsoft is far from blameless in this issue. It appears that the Glide support is actually programmed into the game, works fine, improves performance, and was removed for the purely POLITICAL reason of Microsoft not wanting to admit that Glide is better (faster) than D3D. They even said as much on this forum, that the Glide version was no faster, a claim which from early testing results of this "patch" seems to be a bald faced lie. Joe

I am not a beta tester of any kind and I'm the one that decided to give OP3dfx the file and no other web site. I think they had every right to post the patch/file. As owners of CPR we have every right to this damn file. The file was there in the beginning until MS released the game. Its Microsoft's bullshit tactics that really convince me that 'everyone' should have this file that wants it. Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR

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> I may not have been as clear in my original post as I'd like to be. The > people at op3dfx .com had no right to make this file public. I had the file > because I beta tested. I'm a million miles away from being in a position to > make decisions for MS. So is 3dfx.com. I only run my own company. There are > others, and web sites, who could of released the file but chose not to > because it simply was not their decision to make. If someone hacked into the > op3dfx web site and edited it to say what the hacker wanted, the same people > responsible for the file publication would be pissing their pants. > Dave > >Maybe the people responsible for posting this patch at op3dfx.com (Sander > >Pillon, Jeremy Allford, Tony Gaylord) should just walk into MS and take > over > >the board of directors since they care so much about us. I've had the Glide > >patch for a few months so please, no one try and tell me what a service > they > >have done. I know exactly what the differences are between Glide and D3D. > If > >these men want to make decisions for a company, they should earn a few > >dollars and start their own. > >Dave

It appears that the Glide support is actually Joe -- You're not actually saying that Microsoft, the caring, helpful, brave, thrifty and reverent presence that's ALWAYS helping people out in this NG, and working night and day to make CPR into the "best racing sim ever", would be so crass and mean-spirited as to actually DISABLE a part of its software so that the happy, satisfied, MS customer would be unable to enjoy the "free market choice" MS so fervently praises as it tries by every means to protect its own monopolies? Quel horror! Say it ain't so. I'm sure David Fisher has a perfectly logical explanation for Microsoft's actions in this matter: "there is a "patch" for CPR that enables it to run in Glide mode on 3Dfx cards. Apparently all that was needed is a 50k .dll file, in which Microsoft excluded in order to lock customers into the Direct3D garbage. The company that coded the game (TRI) had it supporting Glide all along and Microsoft just declined it, disabled it, and shipped without it." Maybe there is something dangerous in Glide that the ever-altruistic Microsoft wants to protect its valued customers from. Whattaya say, David -- you have all the answers... Bart Brown

>I only run my own company.> Prithee, what company IS that? It doesn't depend in any way on Microsoft's continuing good will, does it? Just curious. Bart Brown

> I am not a beta tester of any kind and I'm the one that decided to give OP3dfx > the file and no other web site. I assume you are intending to answer the technical questions starting to pepper this board concerning using this patch? ;) - Matt

Yes, you guessed right. There are two co.'s A real estate investment co. and a mortg./business loan co. They told me if I hang out here on r.a.s. and argue with people like you about racing sims, they would give me a 2 year old copy of MS Money for FREE. So here I am. Dave >>I only run my own company.> >Prithee, what company IS that? It doesn't depend in any way on >Microsoft's continuing good will, does it? Just curious. >Bart Brown

I say that MS and ANY company, business, corner store, entrepeneur, or lemonade stand makes the decisions as to what goes in it's products. Period. You can buy the products or you can spend your money elsewhere. It's a concept as old as civilization. Like I said, other people as well as *** web sites could have released the file but chose not too. Ever wonder why? Whether or not the game should have the file is a separate issue. I don't think that op3dfx has the right to make it available. Only the owner of the product has that right. MS. Just like a hacker doesn't have the right to change the reviews on the op3dfx web site to reflect what the hacker believes. Simple enough for you. I hope you have (maybe you do) a business someday and some *** the street walks in and tells you how to run it. Dave >Maybe there is something dangerous in Glide that the ever-altruistic >Microsoft wants to protect its valued customers from. Whattaya say, >David -- you have all the answers... >Bart Brown

> I hope you have (maybe you do) a business someday and some *** > the street walks in and tells you how to run it. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see through the emperor's clothes. Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '_*_' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

<<they would give me a 2 year old copy of MS Money for FREE.>> Payola gets 'em every time! What's the weather like in the Philadelphia area? Bart Brown

<<I don't think that op3dfx has the right to make it available. Only the owner of the product has that right. MS.>> Perhaps. But *I* think people who have been getting ripped off by this *** of a sim have a right to know as many details about it as it's possible to unearth. Microsoft sure isn't going to step forward and explain themselves. Don't you -- even for a hypothetical moment -- think it's QUITE possible that MS buried any mention of Glide compatibility so they could force-feed everyone THEIR pitiful 3D product? Or don't you think Microsoft would stoop to that level? Bart Brown

You are WRONG to post such a file, it's not even an "official" patch!! And where did you get this file?? Shame.. Shame.. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hungry for NEWSGROUPS??? USE feedME.ORG Read and Post to 30,000 groups through feedME.ORG FREE FREE FREE http://www.feedME.ORG FREE FREE FREE ------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me check, buzard. What was the point of sending me a phony e-mail anyway? Or did you ask a friend to send it? Actually it was 84 and sunny today. What's it like in England? Dave ><<they would give me a 2 year old copy of MS Money for FREE.>> >Payola gets 'em every time! What's the weather like in the Philadelphia >area? >Bart Brown

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> > I am not a beta tester of any kind and I'm the one that decided to give OP3dfx > > the file and no other web site. I think they had every right to post the > > patch/file. As owners of CPR we have every right to this damn file. The file w > as > > there in the beginning until MS released the game. Its Microsoft's bullshit > > tactics that really convince me that 'everyone' should have this file that wan > ts > > it. > > Tony Gaylord - Portland, OR > You are WRONG to post such a file, it's not even an "official" patch!! And where > did you get this file?? > Shame.. Shame..

What an unbelievably exactly wrong comment. More like MS was wrong to not include it in the first place and had no right to deprive it's customers of it. SHAME SHAME SHAME. How pitiful! Also, it seems everyone refers to this as a patch but my understanding to date is that this dll was part of the original game. PS - don't bother pointing out legal bullshit to me. I'm a criminal in the eyes of anyone who accepts the government of any country on planet Earth. MS is the criminal in my eyes. Now all I need is the power to ENFORCE my set of laws :)

Let me check, buzard. What was the point of sending me a phony e-mail anyway? Or did you ask a friend to send it? Actually it was 84 and sunny today. What's it like in England? Dave -- Are you suffering from a bout of paranoia? I didn't send you ANY email; I posted a message here. I don't need friends to send my email for me, nor do I hide behind some phony address or spam-blocker -- I'm pretty up-front. I don't call people names, either -- what's with the "buzard" [sic]? I haven't the foggiest (get it?) what the weather's like in England, but here on Connecticut's fabulous vacation shoreline, it's a beautiful cool Spring day. Bart Brown

Yes they do have that right to decide what goes into thier products. And as MS is finding out, people are not buying that particular product, and they ARE spending their money elsewhere.....GPL, F1RS, ICR2, Nascar2, Nascar3, GP3, etc. etc. I just don't think this makes MS look very good in my opinion.....Yes I will still use NT at work and 95 at home to play games, and will still use Word to type my letters, hell, I'm even using Outlook Express to type this damn note....but will I ever use another MS game? I doubt it. And TRI is the real one to get hurt. They coded a game that supported Glide and MS stripped it. Because of a bad decision on MS, the game will be in the $5 bargain bin by summer if it's not there already, and TRI will not get asked to create another game for MS because MS will say, there's no market for that, look at how poorly CPR did......Well, shit, MS, if you had let the Glide support stay in from the get-go, your sales would have been higher, and more people would have given that shoddy game a try. It IS Political garbage, and in my opinion, MS made the WRONG decision this time around......gamers are a picky group and they hold grudges for a long time...... Craig Marcho

Someone named buzard from r.a.s. wrote me an e-mail letter yesterday concerning the recent posting I had about F1 races on TV. In my reply I mention I live in the Philadelphia area. A little while later there is a posting from you asking me how the weather is in the "Philadelphia area". Kind of a coincidence, don't you think? If that's all it was then I apologize. Dave

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>Are you suffering from a bout of paranoia? I didn't send you ANY email; >I posted a message here. I don't need friends to send my email for me, >nor do I hide behind some phony address or spam-blocker -- I'm pretty >up-front. I don't call people names, either -- what's with the "buzard" >[sic]? >I haven't the foggiest (get it?) what the weather's like in England, but >here on Connecticut's fabulous vacation shoreline, it's a beautiful cool >Spring day. >Bart Brown

t>... 3 of the games you just mentioned aren't even released. Are you sure CPR hasn't sold a lot of copies? More than F1 (which I like)? I have a strong feeling they do very well with all their game sales and I KNOW they will continue to do well with their next racing game release. Dave t>...

% While this is all true, at the same time Microsoft is far from % blameless in this issue. It appears that the Glide support is actually % programmed into the game, works fine, improves performance, and was % removed for the purely POLITICAL reason of Microsoft not wanting to % admit that Glide is better (faster) than D3D. They even said as much % on this forum, that the Glide version was no faster, a claim which % from early testing results of this "patch" seems to be a bald faced % lie. Something does smell fishy here. There was some PR ***being dished out by Microsoft (when they had a presence here in r.a.s.) about this. It seems that they said were "looking" into a "patch/port" to Glide, but then they found no peformance gain (except for really slow machines). They therefore were not going to persue a Glide port, but would instead work on improving the D3D frame rate. Here is a post from Dean Lester of Microsoft (for more posts regarding this PR ***check www.dejanews and do a Super Search filtering on group: glide). _________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: No GLIDE for CPR... Date: 1997/12/10 Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators [Subscribe to rec.autos.simulators] New! [More Headers] Craig, Here is my original posting to give you all the information you need in order to discuss this subject:- ================================================= Dan, The good news is we have achieved between 25 and 50% (or greater) frame rate improvements for ALL users regardless of 3D card type - or no 3D card at all. We did a lot of benchmarking on Glide (that's what we have been doing for the last 3 weeks) but it didn't buy us very much - you need a really slow (yes, s-l-o-w) machine to see any difference at all. So TRi found several other ways to achieve much better improvements - for everyone. I am sure many of the "3D experts" on this NG will cry foul - but TRi spent weeks on the Glide version and have benchmarked the two versions of the SAME game side-by-side. Anyone else who has done this much research and coding in this area is welcome to offer their data - but the glib "Glide is much faster than D3D" story does not turn out to be the case. I am sure that won't satisfy everyone - especially those that love a good MS *** theory - but that's the reality. And before anyone posts their MS *** theory <yawn>, go here and check out a posting that corresponds exactly with what we found - and these guys have no reason to support MS - they develop a competing product to our own Flight Simulator ... [link lost in import] 39978.800457020&hitnum=0 "The patch is indeed reality. It should be on our web site next week. It does not include native glide support. But its not like that would get you vast speed improvements anyway. We've worked hard to get good efficiency with d3d. The biggest thing you can do for your hardware performance is to make sure your driver supports DrawPrimitive. -James Fleming, lead programmer on fu2" =============================================================== We have benchmark data and a side-by-side comparison - but please share * your * code examples and findings on this complex subject of hardware abstraction layers and 3D api's to help us improve the game for everyone. >Poor planning and poor coding. No one in this NG is buying that MS suck-up >excuse. There are quite a few glide coded examples that many of us have seen

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>. >Craig >> I'm not cheerleading or trying to start flames, but the Dean (cart >> team) guy has said they DID code a glide port to test the framerate >> against D3d. FOR their Sim, the Glide port was not any faster than >> D3D. This DOES NOT mean in any way that other programs will reflect >> major improvements with Glide vs. D3d. But at least for CPR, it was too >> close to call. >> Dave Henrie >> > apparantely this is the case: >> > http://o3dfx.allgames.com/#MARK1297090104 >.

_________________________________________________________________ -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> Someone named buzard from r.a.s. wrote me an e-mail letter yesterday concerning the recent posting I had about F1 races on TV. In my reply I mention I live in the Philadelphia area. A little while later there is a posting from you asking me how the weather is in the "Philadelphia area". Kind of a coincidence, don't you think? If that's all it was then I apologize. Dave<< Dave-- Yes, a coincidence. First, if I was going to call myself "Buzzard", I'd spell it correctly. Second, I happened to notice one of your posts in a bird newsgroup, saying you'd had a good experience with an avian vet in Philadelphia -- as I used to live in the Philly area (beautiful, scenic Norristown), it caught my eye -- now THERE's a coincidence... Bart

> 3 of the games you just mentioned aren't even released. Are you sure CPR hasn't sold a lot of copies? More than F1 (which I like)? I have a strong feeling they do very well with all their game sales and I KNOW they will continue to do well with their next racing game release. Wait a minute, here. You tell Craig Marcho that his argument isn't valid because 3 of the games he mentioned aren't even released, and then you go on to assert that you "KNOW" MS "will continue to do well with their next racing game release"? Is it just me, or is there a logic solecism between the beginning of your statement and its end? How can Craig's conjecture be utterly invalid (it certainly isn't for ICR2 and NASCAR2), and "your" conjecture be completely written in stone? As to CPR selling a lot of copies -- I would hazard a guess that, except for the initial rollout of a sim, when rebates are often offered as an incentive to try something new, the rebate weapon isn't brought out again except in the case of flagging sales -- and currently, MS is offering rebates up the kazoo for their CPR Beta. If that's how you think demand and supply works in a free-market economy, let me introduce you to the works of Milton Keynes and John Kenneth Galbraith... Bart Brown

Small world. :) Dave

I've seen their next racing game. It is made by TRI which Craig thought would not happen again. He said that CPR has sold poorly compared to F1 and GPL, GP3, Nascar 3, (which haven't been released yet, I think he simply meant that people WILL buy those games when they are released and he's right, I'll be purchasing at least 2 of them myself) and Nascar 2. I asked if he was sure. I would need to see hard numbers before I'd agree with that. I'd also have to see the net profit numbers for all the sims mentioned. Otherwise we are all just guessing. I would be very, very surprised if CPR hasn't outsold, and outearned F1 for a number of reasons which don't reflect negatively on Ubi Soft at all. MS seems to know how to create and market software pretty well considering their *** in the software world. A big, hugely successful company like Microsoft can offer rebates on a niche product like a racing sim whereas the other, smaller companies which make the racing sims we are all familiar with probably can't. I'm a fan of Ubi Soft by the way. I better be considering how many hours I've spent with their products. Not that any of this really matters much to me anyway because I don't own Microsoft or Ubi (unfortunately). Dave

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>Wait a minute, here. You tell Craig Marcho that his argument isn't valid >because 3 of the games he mentioned aren't even released, and then you >go on to assert that you "KNOW" MS "will continue to do well with their >next racing game release"? Is it just me, or is there a logic solecism >between the beginning of your statement and its end? How can Craig's >conjecture be utterly invalid (it certainly isn't for ICR2 and NASCAR2), >and "your" conjecture be completely written in stone? >As to CPR selling a lot of copies -- I would hazard a guess that, except >for the initial rollout of a sim, when rebates are often offered as an >incentive to try something new, the rebate weapon isn't brought out >again except in the case of flagging sales -- and currently, MS is >offering rebates up the kazoo for their CPR Beta. If that's how you >think demand and supply works in a free-market economy, let me introduce >you to the works of Milton Keynes and John Kenneth Galbraith... >Bart Brown

that. You were right in guessing that I meant people will buy those games (F1RS is out though) ...and they will. They are highly anticipated, if a CPR2 were to be announced, I don't think anyone will be spending the night at the local software store waiting for it to open so they can get their hands on the first copy.......whereas, I rushed to the store the day GP2 came out and GLADLY spend $60 US for the game. I was one of the first in the US to have F1RS last November, and was shocked to only pay $39 plus shipping for it from InteractCD.....and received it promptly. I will gladly pay more than $50 for GPL when it's out. I don't even need to play the demo, although I will! But, I must have played with the demo of CPR for three months and followed it in the newsgroups the whole time debating whether I should buy this game. I didn't want to toss $35 for this game, it just didn't do much for me. If I hadn't hit 5 out of 6 numbers on the lottery new years eve, I probably never would have bought CPR. (Yes, I almost won 18 million in the Texas lottery, but had to settle for $2,053 instead!) so I bought CPR on sale for $34 at Best Buy, and tried to play on the Zone, tried to play at home, set the thing on expert or whatever the highest setting is, and without any setup on the car at all, I'm lapping cars at Michigan after 4 laps. What's wrong with that picture? I'm not even going to go into the problems with the game, they've been mulled over MANY times on the newsgroups....... What I'm getting at is: Now that there is Glide support, I actually reinstalled CPR last night, and am going to give it a second chance. If MS had left the Glide support in there in the first place, maybe more people would have given it a chance as well. D3D sucks in my opinion. But that's exactly what it is, my opinion. I prefer Glide or OpenGL, that's what I've got VooDoo and Riva for...... I know F1RS is wildly popular in Europe, what about CPR? F1RS just began selling in stores here in the states in the last 48 hours, so it's sales here are just beginning. Let's see, CPR sold for about 3 months in stores before slowing sales. And I don't think I ever went into a store and DIDN'T see CPR on a shelf, even at Christmas, I'll bet F1RS is going to be hard to keep in stock for at least a month, and sales will continue well. Now, F1RS is not being shipped to the US at the Christmas sales peak like CPR was, so it may take a little while to surpass US sales of CPR, but I'm sure it will. But, I don't have hard numbers either, and I doubt anyone will, because MS may be ashamed to show what they really are. yes, you are right, MS does know how to market, the market the hell out of CPR and suckered alot of people into buying it, including myself. And now those people are TRYING to enjoy the game somehow, so they don't feel they wasted the money or were suckers. Craig Marcho

Sorry about the lottery. Sooooo close. Since you have re-installed it now, are you using Pro or Int.? If using Int., did you change the skill settings in the system.ini? Are you racing with damage on, which naturally inhibits your courage? Ovals are where the AI in CPR is not at it's best. I have watched real CART oval races and members of the field do get lapped early on in races for many reasons. Th AI is better on road and street courses. I have a new post which I comment on AI in sims and, if you want, check it and tell me what you think. < D3D sucks in my opinion. But that's I can tell you that the differences between D3D and Glide are coming down quickly. There is a game I'm testing now where the frame rate differences are few and the qraphic quality is virtually identical. I can't tell what version I'm in by looking at the screen. CPR was just recently released in Europe. I do notice that the number of people at the Zone races has been constantly increasing for about 2 months now. Also, the number of racers signed up at Case's Ladder has also been growing steadily. They must be buying the game and liking it or they wouldn't join a ladder. will. To be honest, I don't think enough people play racing sims to make them fly off the shelves. I'm comparing them to arcade racing games and all the rest (action, adventure). Microsoft can get their products to the mainstream buyer in a way Ubi Soft can't, regardless of what's in the box so I don't think they will ever surpass Microsoft sales. Ubi Soft won't show their numbers either. Would it be because they are ashamed? Do you agree this might be a logical reason for the rebate? Dave

If this is the same game I'm tesing (and I suspect it is), I disagree with your conclusions. The Glide version is faster in all areas. The only reason it looks the same is because they've chosen not to use the more advanced features of Glide, they are only using the features that have a D3D equivalent. But the Glide version is 4-5 fps faster, which can make a huge difference in playability if it means you frame-rate bottoms out at 20fps instead of 15. Joe

Can someone let me know were to pick up this glide patch. I surfed over to MS page and could not find a Glide patch. Is it included in the 3775 patch. Thanks for any help. ray

> Small world. :) > Dave "But I wouldn't want to paint it..." Steven Wright

Ahhh, Michael -- thank you! What a trip down memory lane! I kinda miss old Dean "Short Fuse" Lester -- thanks for that reminder of official corporate two-stepping! Bart Brown

I have grabbed the glide file from op3df, via a link from 3dfxmania. I have a pentium166 and cpr really struggled, almost unplayable and this file has brought the game to life. I can't believe the arrogance of microsoft in not allowing any non-d3d versions.

Yeah, they are really working FOR us, aren't they, guys... >I have grabbed the glide file from op3df, via a link from 3dfxmania. >I have a pentium166 and cpr really struggled, almost unplayable and this file has brought the game to life. versions.

To answer the original question of this debate. I have a P166, 80mb, Matrox Millenium and a Monster 3D. Most of my 3dfx games have great graphics and frame rate if I reduce the number of cars or whatever details so my old slow CPU can keep up. With CPR before the patch I reduced most of the graphics and still the frame rate was too slow so I gave up playing it. Now with the glide patch I can turn all the graphics on and with clipping at about 18 the game is faster and fun to play. Even the replay is nice to watch now. Is there a way to check the frame rate in the game?

I believe you have to type "frame" and it will show. Glad to see that the Glide patch is helping someone enjoy the game more. Too bad TRi didn't take full advantage of the Glide API, the graphics could have been much better, and the framerates would have been higher. Oh well, after trying the game anyways, I can't say I'm too impressed with it. I found it too easy, and it lacks as a simulation. I think I'm gonna stick with F1RS. Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)