Anybody see the Phoenix Grand-Am race last night? I'm sure this will be met
with skepticism but I am really starting to like this series. Very exciting
race, lots of overtaking even within the same class, lots of trading paint,
and the cars were actually repairable after incidents. I really think these
guys might be on to something. Sure the DP's are still kind of ugly and the
infield road courses are less than inspiring, but consider the advantages of
this format: lower cost for the teams, higher durability, lots of sponsor
space on the bodies, cars are easily identifiable to even the casual fan,
and nearly the entire track can be seen from the stands. In comparison at a
typical ALMS race you will not find one place on the track where you can see
more than two corners, the cars are very expensive to build and they break
if they touch anything, and some of the teams are a bit hard to tell from
each other. I will always love ALMS and similar "classic" sports car racing
but I think the Grand-Am formula is really going to work. It may even be
America's only hope for commercially viable road racing in the future.
"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
There is a phoenix infield course available for the Papyrus mods.
Try getting thru the sharp right-hander that takes the infield portion back
towards the oval's back section. They seem to have more grip in real life.
Idunno.
dave henrie
Quoted text (20 lines)
> Anybody see the Phoenix Grand-Am race last night? I'm sure this will > be met with skepticism but I am really starting to like this series. > Very exciting race, lots of overtaking even within the same class, > lots of trading paint, and the cars were actually repairable after > incidents. I really think these guys might be on to something. Sure > the DP's are still kind of ugly and the infield road courses are less > than inspiring, but consider the advantages of this format: lower cost > for the teams, higher durability, lots of sponsor space on the bodies, > cars are easily identifiable to even the casual fan, and nearly the > entire track can be seen from the stands. In comparison at a typical > ALMS race you will not find one place on the track where you can see > more than two corners, the cars are very expensive to build and they > break if they touch anything, and some of the teams are a bit hard to > tell from each other. I will always love ALMS and similar "classic" > sports car racing but I think the Grand-Am formula is really going to > work. It may even be America's only hope for commercially viable road > racing in the future. > > >I am starting to agree also. I am a BIG ALMS fan, but with only 1 Audi this
year it just won't be the same. We went to Sebring this year, and while it's
was great fun, it is hard to see more than a little bit of the track at any one
place/time. The race last nite did look like it would be fun to go to....
Kevin (aka tlgtr)
****
Zip slowly, medical statistics show that over 100,000 people are injured
annually by their clothing.
Dave,
Where is the Phoenix infield track? Would love to take a few laps there.
Happy Easter,
Wag
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
There is a phoenix infield course available for the Papyrus mods.
Try getting thru the sharp right-hander that takes the infield portion back
towards the oval's back section. They seem to have more grip in real life.
Idunno.
dave henrie
Nevermind - found it at SRC - musta missed it the last time I was there.
Wag
Haqsau wrote:
> Sure the DP's are still kind of ugly and the
> infield road courses are less than inspiring, but consider the advantages of
> this format: lower cost for the teams, higher durability, lots of sponsor
> space on the bodies, cars are easily identifiable to even the casual fan,
> and nearly the entire track can be seen from the stands.
And when the the fastest class on the track (DP) can't beat a two year
old Trans Am car, just make the Trans Am car slower! The racing in
Grand Am may be ok, but the series is absolute crap. Rovals, who cares?
I'd much rather watch a 4-6 hour race at a road course with a
comfortable pair of shoes. Technology is important in a premier racing
series. Who wants to watch a bunch of fab cars where everything is
equal? If I wanted to watch NASCAR, I'd watch NASCAR. Much like the
IRL, Grand Am needs to fall by the wayside. Unfortunately, with NASCAR
backing both series that's not going to happen.
Tried a few laps of it with TPTCC. Ran a best of 59.647. Fastest lap in
the real race was 59.691. Okay could just be coincidence since I'm not the
fastest driver around. Achim's best is a 56.647. That's about the normal
alien vs. reality gap, so I think it is probably pretty accurate.
There are some very tight turns on this track but if you look at them in the
helicopter view they appear to be pretty realistic. Also you could hear the
revs drop at those spots during the real race. I think it is probably
pretty close.
The tough one is the left hander going onto the back straight. The real
life drivers had their cars perfectly balanced so that they could slide the
car right out to the wall exiting this turn. I find that very hard to do,
and even Achim's replay is not using as much track there as the real guys
were.
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> There is a phoenix infield course available for the Papyrus mods.
> Try getting thru the sharp right-hander that takes the infield portionback
> towards the oval's back section. They seem to have more grip in reallife.
> Idunno.
>
> dave henrie
I'm not sure what you are refering to with that comment. Would you please
explain?
"Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> And when the the fastest class on the track (DP) can't beat a two year
> old Trans Am car, just make the Trans Am car slower!
Haqsau wrote:
I believe it was last year, the DP's were getting beat by a two year old
Trans Am Ford Mustang. The solution? Slow down the GT classes so the
DP's would win races.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> I'm not sure what you are refering to with that comment. Would you please > explain? > > "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>And when the the fastest class on the track (DP) can't beat a two year >>old Trans Am car, just make the Trans Am car slower!
> I believe it was last year, the DP's were getting beat by a two year old
> Trans Am Ford Mustang. The solution? Slow down the GT classes so the
> DP's would win races.
Yeah, that wasn't exactly the wisest course of action, IMHO, but sticking to
their guns has produced some great racing this season with the arrival of
the "2nd-gen" DP's. They just need a bit more grunt to liven things up.
I'm actually looking to being at the Mid-Ohio round in August, whereas last
year we were headed to dinner ~40 min into last year's race. Not nearly as
much as the World Challenge races in June, however.
Still think it would make a cool PTA-based mod. :-)
-jde
"J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:407b108d$0$49458$[email hidden]:
>
>> I believe it was last year, the DP's were getting beat by a two year
>> old Trans Am Ford Mustang. The solution? Slow down the GT classes
>> so the DP's would win races.
The class structure is one of two great weakness of Grand AM.
First, they didn't just slow down the 2nd tier cars, they ELIMINATED the
whole class. The GTS car are gone. The next problem is the two lower
classes use visually identical cars. What casual fan is going to know why
the Blue Porche is different from the White Porche?
>
> Yeah, that wasn't exactly the wisest course of action, IMHO, but
> sticking to their guns has produced some great racing this season with
> the arrival of the "2nd-gen" DP's. They just need a bit more grunt to
> liven things up.
The shear amount of new teams kinda reminds me of CART last season. Is
Nascar paying teams to run DPs?
It's not PTA but.....
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=446
dh+ :)
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > I'm actually looking to being at the Mid-Ohio round in August, whereas > last year we were headed to dinner ~40 min into last year's race. Not > nearly as much as the World Challenge races in June, however. > > Still think it would make a cool PTA-based mod. :-) > > -jde >That's supposed to be fixed next year, they will be eliminating SGS. So
there will only be DP and GT. IMO that's okay, one prototype class and one
silhouette class is all you need, as long as you have enough entrants. The
40 car field they had for Phoenix was one of the main things that made it an
interesting race.
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> The next problem is the two lower
> classes use visually identical cars. What casual fan is going to know why
> the Blue Porche is different from the White Porche?
> >
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Point made, but GTS is more than likely pricing itself out of existence.
ALMS are making great claims about new involvement from other automakers,
but even as an ALMS fan, I think that's risky/not totally likely. Classes
need to balance being cost-effective and piquing the interest of the
automakers. Tough task, but SPEED WC seems to be doing it thus far, pending
further Caddy routs.
A bigger problem than confusion amongst GT and SGS 911's is mixing
near-production sports cars that are presumably still running Hoosier DOT
"race" tires (as the other GA Cup classes, similar concept to the Toyos used
in SPEED WC) up against full-prep race cars on slicks. Makes for
interesting racing for us fans, though. ;-)
> The shear amount of new teams kinda reminds me of CART last season.Is
> Nascar paying teams to run DPs?
I doubt it. At least not as overtly as CART. NASCAR appears to have little
interest in GA's operations, so your "spirited feelings" probably aren't
warranted. ;-) Ganassi probably has motivation ($$$) from Toyota. Taylor's
been looking for something to do since the Caddy LMP was shelved.
Southard's PAP team were running an RSR in GT, and have been running vintage
(ex-Akin Fabcar 935, etc.) for years. I'm sure there are other similar
stories. Also, sports car racing has already had a "gentleman racer"
contingent that top-tier open-wheel doesn't have.
> It's not PTA but.....
> http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=446
Cool stuff!
*jde
