Off topic: ESPN loses F1 broadcast rights

Read it and weep, brothers: Formula 1 News ESPN Loses F1 Broadcasts 3/6/98 BRISTOL, Ct. -- ESPN, which has owned the rights to broadcast the Formula One series in the United States has lost that right, at least temporarily, leaving the Speedvision Network as the sole source for a live broadcast of this weekend's opening round of the series in Australia. Unfortunately for many television viewers, Speedvision has a very limited availability on both cable systems in North America and on most DBS satellite mini-dish programs. Live qualifying from Melbourne on Saturday at 1 pm local time (Friday, 9 pm EST) will only be available on Speedvision. The race on Sunday, at 2 pm local time (Saturday, 10 pm EST), will be shown live by Speedvision, and carried as a tape-delay by Fox Sports West on Sunday, at 7 pm PST. If your area has a Fox Sports Network cable station, check your local listings, or call the station and ask details on whether or not they will be showing the race. It was normal to have ESPN still negotiating with Bernie Ecclestone's people for the rights to continue to broadcast the F1 races at this point in the pre-season (days before the start of the first race). But this week, according to an ESPN spokesman, the negotiations were terminated by Ecclestone's group.

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown

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>Read it and weep, brothers: >Formula 1 News >ESPN Loses F1 Broadcasts >3/6/98 >BRISTOL, Ct. -- ESPN, which has owned the rights to broadcast the >Formula One series in the United States has lost that right, at least >temporarily, leaving the Speedvision Network as the sole source for a >live broadcast of this weekend's opening round of the series in >Australia. >Unfortunately for many television viewers, Speedvision has a very >limited availability on both cable systems in North America and on most >DBS satellite mini-dish programs.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS IS A LIE!!! What ESPN b.s.is this? The only mini-dish unavailablity of Speedvision is on the DISH network. Primestar and Direct-TV, with a large majority of subscribers carry it so that is crap. By the way ESPN, why did you drop live coverage to the deuce 2 years ago? My wonderful cable system doesn't yet carry the deuce so you put the nail in your own coffin back then as far as I'm concerned. Forced me to buy the Direct-TV dish back then. ... much snipped Too BAD you ESPN idiots. Bernie knew you had already relegated him to the minor league station. He gets coverage by a channel that is ACTUALLY e***d about carrying F1 and which now has a lever into more cable networks. Enjoy your provincial sport of Nascar racing. Americans deserve a sport that they only have to comprehend turning left 4 times per lap. GO SPEEDVISION! Jeff Haas South Bend, Indiana USA

>SpeedVisions problem is that they don't seem to be available except >via dish. Why can't they be on cable like other channels? At least >we get the Fox Sports network here, so at least there is hope for >seeing the race. Call your cable company and request SpeedVision. My cable company started carrying it last year because of popular demand. It has pretty good F1 coverage. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

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>On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown >>Read it and weep, brothers: >>Formula 1 News >>ESPN Loses F1 Broadcasts >>3/6/98 >>BRISTOL, Ct. -- ESPN, which has owned the rights to broadcast the >>Formula One series in the United States has lost that right, at least >>temporarily, leaving the Speedvision Network as the sole source for a >>live broadcast of this weekend's opening round of the series in >>Australia. >>Unfortunately for many television viewers, Speedvision has a very >>limited availability on both cable systems in North America and on most >>DBS satellite mini-dish programs. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >THIS IS A LIE!!!

Actually it's pretty much true. I cannot watch F1 live if it does not come on cable. I'm certainly not going to pay hundreds of dollars to watch F1 on TV. I think the saddest part about all of this is that the FIA has gone out of its way to make sure that F1 is a minor league sport for US fans. SpeedVisions problem is that they don't seem to be available except via dish. Why can't they be on cable like other channels? At least we get the Fox Sports network here, so at least there is hope for seeing the race. Clark

Perhaps you could educate this uncomprehending American about the attraction in watching six cars finish a 'gruelling' hour-fortyfive-minute 'race', with maybe two of them on the same lap. MW

Clark -- I get Speedvision from my local cable provider here in Connecticut, not a dish. Hound your cable co. until they get sick of hearing from you! Bart Brown

F1 only hurts itself by leaving ESPN. It reminds me when the NHL went to Sportschannel which was only in a limited area and was nearly forgotten in the rest of the USA. F1 needs ESPN more than ESPN needs F1. With that said I will miss the F1 races I was just becoming a fan.

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> >On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown > >>Read it and weep, brothers: > >>Formula 1 News > >>ESPN Loses F1 Broadcasts > >>3/6/98 > >>BRISTOL, Ct. -- ESPN, which has owned the rights to broadcast the > >>Formula One series in the United States has lost that right, at least > >>temporarily, leaving the Speedvision Network as the sole source for a > >>live broadcast of this weekend's opening round of the series in > >>Australia. > >>Unfortunately for many television viewers, Speedvision has a very > >>limited availability on both cable systems in North America and on most > >>DBS satellite mini-dish programs. > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >THIS IS A LIE!!! > Actually it's pretty much true. I cannot watch F1 live if it does not > come on cable. I'm certainly not going to pay hundreds of dollars to > watch F1 on TV. I think the saddest part about all of this is that > the FIA has gone out of its way to make sure that F1 is a minor league > sport for US fans. > SpeedVisions problem is that they don't seem to be available except > via dish. Why can't they be on cable like other channels? At least > we get the Fox Sports network here, so at least there is hope for > seeing the race. > Clark

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> On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown > >Read it and weep, brothers: > >Formula 1 News > >ESPN Loses F1 Broadcasts > >3/6/98 > >BRISTOL, Ct. -- ESPN, which has owned the rights to broadcast the > >Formula One series in the United States has lost that right, at least > >temporarily, leaving the Speedvision Network as the sole source for a > >live broadcast of this weekend's opening round of the series in > >Australia. > >Unfortunately for many television viewers, Speedvision has a very > >limited availability on both cable systems in North America and on most > >DBS satellite mini-dish programs. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > THIS IS A LIE!!! > What ESPN b.s.is this? The only mini-dish unavailablity of Speedvision > is on the DISH network. Primestar and Direct-TV, with a large > majority of subscribers carry it so that is crap. By the way ESPN, why > did you drop live coverage to the deuce 2 years ago? My wonderful > cable system doesn't yet carry the deuce so you put the nail in your > own coffin back then as far as I'm concerned. Forced me to buy the > Direct-TV dish back then. > ... much snipped > >It was normal to have ESPN still negotiating with Bernie Ecclestone's > >people for the rights to continue to broadcast the F1 races at this > >point in the pre-season (days before the start of the first race). But > >this week, according to an ESPN spokesman, the negotiations were > >terminated by Ecclestone's group. > Too BAD you ESPN idiots. Bernie knew you had already relegated him to > the minor league station. He gets coverage by a channel that is > ACTUALLY e***d about carrying F1 and which now has a lever into more > cable networks. Enjoy your provincial sport of Nascar racing. > Americans deserve a sport that they only have to comprehend turning > left 4 times per lap. > GO SPEEDVISION! > Jeff Haas > South Bend, Indiana USA

All I know is if ESPN2 has stopped carrying F1 I am looking into the "Dish" thing like now! I can't stand the left turn only in a circle thing. Plus I heard speedvision carries British and Australian Touring car racing. NASCAR drivers can't stand road coarses. Heck driving in a circle (get on the gas, get off the gas, with no downshifting) a lot of people could do that. IMHO Ike

Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at the end of a race. Provincial?? NASCAR Winston Cup has over 30 races a year, all over the US. In all divisions, they run hundreds of tracks NASCAR fans actually have a chance to meet and talk to drivers of Cup cars. I met a few while in Atlanta last fall. Invited to the race by DuPont. How was your last experience at an F1 race???? -- Robert Haviland President, Doyle Bowen Memorial Park, Inc. [link lost in import] > > On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown > > Too BAD you ESPN idiots. Bernie knew you had already relegated him to > > the minor league station. He gets coverage by a channel that is > > ACTUALLY e***d about carrying F1 and which now has a lever into more > > cable networks. Enjoy your provincial sport of Nascar racing. > > Americans deserve a sport that they only have to comprehend turning > > left 4 times per lap. > > GO SPEEDVISION! > > Jeff Haas > > South Bend, Indiana USA > All I know is if ESPN2 has stopped carrying F1 I am looking into the > "Dish" thing like now! I can't stand the left turn only in a circle > thing. Plus I heard speedvision carries British and Australian Touring > car racing. NASCAR drivers can't stand road coarses. Heck driving in a > circle (get on the gas, get off the gas, with no downshifting) a lot of > people could do that. IMHO > Ike

Be glad to. It is the mindset. F1 is about technology and encompasses engineering, cleverness, driving skill, etc. If you can whip everybody's ***by creating the best package, then so be it. You won't have some sanctioning body immediately changing the rules on you as a reward for your hard work. It takes a deeper appreciation of all the factors to enjoy. Nascar is entertainment (something we Americans have got to have). We get high drama of all the cars using limited technology, yellow flags thrown for debris on the track, and really pissed off officals if someone wins by more than half a car length. Why watch a nascar race? The race is really only the last 2 or 3 laps, the rest is just to fill the clock out. I think that they should do away with body styles all together and just paint the name of the car on it. I mean, how can you take it seriously when they use a front drive, V-6 engined car and make it a rear drive v-8. Ah, I see, paint "Taurus" on the front and no one will know the difference. Regarding the gruelling part. Have you ever dealt with 3.5 to 4 g's from different directions (laterally and longitudely (sp) ) ? I have in an aerobatic airplane and it takes a high level of fitness to get used to it. I don't think Nascar is much less demanding if the races have limited yellow flag situations but when there are a lot of yellows, it gives a break. You generally don't see any letup in an F1 race. I don't personally need 40 cars out there. We all know that generally only a handful are capable of winning anyway. The lower level of technology and the dumbass rules for points (also setup for entertainment) means that we get to see half-destroyed hulks chugging around the track in the way of everyone. Yea so 35 finish. How many were on the lead lap? How many were in serious contention? I like more complex things and Nascar just doesn't fit those parameters. I just like road courses, 16,500 rpm engines with 700 +hp and 1200 lb cars. It's like airliners vs fighter planes. I like fighters. I don't like rigged races regardless of the formula and I'm pretty disgusted with the McLaren race fixiing that's happened the last two races now... Enjoy what you like.. Jeff Haas

> Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 > MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 > car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at > the end of a race. Maybe something to do with the gross amount of yellow flags??? "Oh, my GOD! A toothpick is on the track!!!!!! FULL COURSE YELLOW!!!!!! Another thing, look at NASCAR sponsorship- breakfast cereal, laundry detergent, toys, chewin' terbaccy. Kinda shows you the demographics, eh? Little kids, women and rednecks. You can keep it... -- "NASCAR- the professional wrestling of motorsport"

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> Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 > MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 > car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at > the end of a race. > Provincial?? NASCAR Winston Cup has over 30 races a year, all over the US. > In all divisions, they run hundreds of tracks > NASCAR fans actually have a chance to meet and talk to drivers of Cup cars. > I met a few while in Atlanta last fall. Invited to the race by DuPont. > How was your last experience at an F1 race???? > -- > Robert Haviland > President, Doyle Bowen Memorial Park, Inc. > [link lost in import]

It was better than driving in a circle of left hand turns. Ike

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> > > On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:03:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown > > > Too BAD you ESPN idiots. Bernie knew you had already relegated him to > > > the minor league station. He gets coverage by a channel that is > > > ACTUALLY e***d about carrying F1 and which now has a lever into more > > > cable networks. Enjoy your provincial sport of Nascar racing. > > > Americans deserve a sport that they only have to comprehend turning > > > left 4 times per lap. > > > GO SPEEDVISION! > > > Jeff Haas > > > South Bend, Indiana USA > > All I know is if ESPN2 has stopped carrying F1 I am looking into the > > "Dish" thing like now! I can't stand the left turn only in a circle > > thing. Plus I heard speedvision carries British and Australian Touring > > car racing. NASCAR drivers can't stand road coarses. Heck driving in a > > circle (get on the gas, get off the gas, with no downshifting) a lot of > > people could do that. IMHO > > Ike

I get Speedvision from my cable company too, Prestige provides it as basic service in North Carolina. Josh Davis

Robert Haviland wrote I actually had the possibility to make tour of the Tyrell-Yahama team in Formula 1 back at the Montral Open pits day in 1995. Talked with Ukyo Katayama for about 15-20 mins. I also spoke 2-3 mins with David Coulthard. Sorry I didn't know in F1 you could never talk to drivers. Comparing Nascar to F1 is like comparing CART to NHRA.... <vbfg>. I like every kind of racing. F1 is F1. Nascar is different, but it's Nascar... Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

>Be glad to. It is the mindset. F1 is about technology and encompasses >engineering, cleverness, driving skill, etc. If you can whip >everybody's ***by creating the best package, then so be it. You >won't have some sanctioning body immediately changing the rules on you >as a reward for your hard work. Don't be too sure. If the McLaren cars continue to lap the field as easily as they did in Australia, don't think there won't be some serious scrutiny on that '4th pedal'. Formula One doesn't want a boring show, either. I find very little drama in most NASCAR races. They take so long and whoever is leading at lap 100 bears little resemblance to who is leading at lap 300. You can pretty much just tune in the last 30 minutes of a NASCAR race to see the interesting stuff (unless you count wrecks as 'interesting'). I can enjoy NASCAR, but not anywhere near as much as I do a CART race. CART is my favorite because it combines the best of Formula One with the best of NASCAR. Ya think? Randy

>Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 >MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 >car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at >the end of a race. That last bit is an exaggeration and you do know that. and many of them are carbon copies of each other. Another reason why I'm a CART fan. The best of F1, and the best of NASCAR. I enjoyed meeting Michael Andretti and Christian Fittipaldi last year at Laguna Seca. Randy

>Don't be too sure. If the McLaren cars continue to lap the field as >easily as they did in Australia, don't think there won't be some >serious scrutiny on that '4th pedal'. Formula One doesn't want a >boring show, either. There have been other periods of domination by McLaren and also for Williams. I remember those teams winning almost all of a season's races by a wide margin. Let's face it, McLaren got a royal flush: best and most clever designer (an absolute dumbass move by Williams letting Newey go), always good infrastucture and funding. most powerful engine with new-found reliablity, best tires that are now on a top level team and quick drivers. I'd be surprised to see rule changes made. I think the rules might be interpreted a little more conservatively ; ) F1 hasn't usually changed the rules in the season unless it was very flagrant. (the sucker car with the big fan in the back is one I remember gettng banned real quick). To me the beauty of F1 is that creativity has usually been allowed to be rewarded at least through a season. I remember the minimum ride height rules that were circumvented by having hydraulic springs that raised the cars for scrutineering in pit lane and lowered them once out on the track. Last year's flexible front wing on the Ferrari stood through the end of the year. Randy, I was being a bit facetious here. As I stated later, the real drama only happens at the end of the race when things get serious. I do watch the big races and admire the drivers for the courage in driving in those huge packs nose to tail at the superspeedways with very unstable cars. My favorite I'm ashamed to admit is Bristol. I just love those demo derbys at relatively safe speeds... You can watch the whole race there and be guaranteed of some serious " drama" ;) CART is no longer my favorite. Full course yellows just ruin it for me. They don't get cranes to remove the cars and the whole flow of the racing is disrupted. I swear it didn't used to be like that but it is strictly a gut feel for me. I watch all the races but don't have the same fervor I used to have. There is nothing to me that matches the F1 standing starts and the god-awful wail of those high reving engines. I attended all the races at the 'Glen from the early 70's until F1 didn't like getting muddy in October and they are still my favorite racing memories. Oh well, CART starts in couple of weeks so we will have a new season and forumla to talk about.... Jeff

But when is the last time you"ve seen a Nascar driver slow to let his teammate win a race? F1 cars are basically unrepairable if something fails at the track. ( let alone have a wreck) i'd rather watch my favorite driver complete the race, than have him fly off before the checkered flag. and BTW, i am niether a kid, woman or redneck. cjp

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>Maybe something to do with the gross amount of yellow flags??? "Oh, my >GOD! A toothpick is on the track!!!!!! FULL COURSE YELLOW!!!!!! >Another thing, look at NASCAR sponsorship- breakfast cereal, laundry >detergent, >toys, chewin' terbaccy. Kinda shows you the demographics, eh? Little >kids, >women and rednecks. You can keep it... >-- >"NASCAR- the professional wrestling of motorsport"

I love f1, but if you think Jeff Gorden couldn't kick some ass in f1 with a good car your kidding yourself.

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>} >}>Enjoy your provincial sport of Nascar racing. >}>Americans deserve a sport that they only have to comprehend turning >}>left 4 times per lap. >}>Jeff Haas >}>South Bend, Indiana USA >} >}Perhaps you could educate this uncomprehending American about the >attraction in >}watching six cars finish a 'gruelling' hour-fortyfive-minute 'race', >with maybe >}two of them on the same lap. >} >}MW >I'm an American that understands F1 perfectly. >First car into turn 1 wins, unless he breaks >If a pass is attempted, the driver being passed whines >Requires a 40 man crew for a pit stop >They do have one advantage: no Jeff Gordon >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Dave Starr >Professional Shop Rat - 33 years in an Auto Plant

> Demographics? Don't you mean sponsorship dollars? Valvoline reaped over > $43 million dollars in ad time on TV last year. They didn't pay anywhere > near that. >So what is the difference. Besides, the > sponsor doesn't even matter to F1. I have to snicker each time a sponsors drink can is mysteriously put down by a ghostly hand into the frame of a NASCAR interview, and then turned so the logo shows most clearly. And each time the photographer refines his frame to concentrate more on the face of the sponsor-drink-swilling driver to get the gratuitous ad out of frame, I cheer ;) - Matt

Can't you get CBC or TSN in the States anywhere?If not maby just an american driver in the series would help.We can watch the race 2 diff ways:TSN live coverage or CBC next night repeat.It sure helps to have the World Champion from your country.:)

On Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:52:13 GMT, "Robert Haviland" >Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 >MPH, on the final lap?? That's it, the final lap, that's all you need to watch. Period. Why sit around all day? Nobody is going to get away and if they do, the next race they won't have the means to do it. I cetainily don't question the driver's skill or courage it is the nature of the racing that means that nothing will happen until the last lap. That's not true and you know it. One of the reasons you have all kinds of junkers finishing in nascar is the ludicrous points system. I mean, why win races when finishing 10th will do? F1 pays for winning races, period. F1 has fewer finishers because you don't get second chances. Stall on the grid? Sorry. Make a small mistake and go off track? Sorry. No quarter asked, no quarter given. With that set of ground rules, cars fall out. In addition the cars are built much closer to the reliablitliy edge than most Nascar cars. The restrictor plate engines are probably closer to F1 in their dance at the edge of fragility. They still sound like they are in North Carolina to me. Let me put it this way: I attended the TransSouth 400 race at Darlington 2 years ago and I was really impressed with all the pissing done by cars number 3 and 24. This didn't occur on the race track no, it was done with cute little cars at campsites and on the windows of countless pickup trucks and cars. Next point. You make a good point there. F1 is terrible in terms of access in recent times. I attended races at the Glen in the 70's and early 80's and you had pretty good access in those days. Nascar is a good sport for that and so is CART (Champcars). Doesn't take away from We agree to disagree. Enjoy your racing! Jeff

>That's not true and you know it. One of the reasons you have all >kinds of junkers finishing in nascar is the ludicrous points system. I >mean, why win races when finishing 10th will do? F1 pays for winning >races, period. Another argument for CART. I like the points system better. I mean, how do you measure improvement in Formula One outside the top 6? There are 22 cars on the grid and if you improve from finishing 22nd on average to finishing 10th there's no recognition of your achievement. NASCAR is at the other end of the scale. CART sits nicely in the middle, rewarding the top 12 and ensuring that even poor teams can become average and see some points to show sponsors. Unless, of course, you get called into the pits by accident and your teammate allows you by. :-) Randy

F1 - A sport that is rigged. "Hey, how do you pronounce your name? Let me sign a contract to let me win today, and I'll let you win next week." Geez. Come on folks, who wants to watch a fixed race?? As far as yellows, Las Vegas only had a few. Besides, F1 would have a bunch if they ran a 1 1/2 mile track, too. I guess it is one of those safety issues. Safety is obviously more important to NASCAR than F1. I don't remember a NASCAR car spinning in the air and hitting a bridge support, thus killing the sports leading racer. Let's discuss the technology. You are right. F1's computers really are advanced. The driver doesn't even have to change gears. Why? Because the owner is afraid he'll mess up. What's more important - the driver or the car? The biggest reason NASCAR controls the technology is cost. The less the cost, the more teams. Demographics? Don't you mean sponsorship dollars? Valvoline reaped over $43 million dollars in ad time on TV last year. They didn't pay anywhere near that. The demos do show that women, kids, and tobacco using men watch racing. That's why they advertise. Also notice that car space is used by many charities as well. Doesn't F1 have tobacco and *** sponsors as well?? I'm pretty sure they do. So what is the difference. Besides, the sponsor doesn't even matter to F1. -- Robert Haviland > > Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 > > MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 > > car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at > > the end of a race. > Maybe something to do with the gross amount of yellow flags??? "Oh, my > GOD! A toothpick is on the track!!!!!! FULL COURSE YELLOW!!!!!! > Another thing, look at NASCAR sponsorship- breakfast cereal, laundry > detergent, > toys, chewin' terbaccy. Kinda shows you the demographics, eh? Little > kids, > women and rednecks. You can keep it... > -- > "NASCAR- the professional wrestling of motorsport"

> >Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197 > >MPH, on the final lap?? In NASCAR, a blowout finish is when you have 5 > >car lengths on someone. In F1, you're lucky to have five cars RUNNING at > >the end of a race. > That last bit is an exaggeration and you do know that. My bad, 9 out of 22 finished. Except for the differences in day races - night races, season of the year. CART is a good circuit. They need to take over IndyCar, which is a minor league.

> On Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:52:13 GMT, "Robert Haviland" > >Have you tried it?? I mean the screaming 3 wide heading into a turn at 197

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> >MPH, on the final lap?? > That's it, the final lap, that's all you need to watch. Period. Why > sit around all day? Nobody is going to get away and if they do, the > next race they won't have the means to do it. I cetainily don't > question the driver's skill or courage it is the nature of the racing > that means that nothing will happen until the last lap.

As ESPN reports "The Australian Grand Prix took three seconds to decide." What would Coulthard of done if Hakkinen screwed up even more? Park it until he caught up? What a race. It was like watching a who-dun-it, after your sister told you how it ends. I'll give in on the point system. It is bad. But, I did talk about the finsh of a race, not the season. A close race is always better than a car slowing down so his teammate can pass him. And yes, I do admit that Davey probably let his dad win the Daytona 500 one year. Yep, I wish I had created that sticker too. Kinda like the smiley face. At least Dale and Jeff don't have a contract with each other. You're right. Racing of all kinds has a die hard fan base. Personally, I love unlimited hydroplane racing. 200 mph on water!! Robert

>F1 - A sport that is rigged. "Hey, how do you pronounce your name? Let me >sign a contract to let me win today, and I'll let you win next week." >Geez. Come on folks, who wants to watch a fixed race?? Look at the events surrounding Dale Earnhardt's win at Daytona and tell me there isn't reason to suspect more than F1. I'm not saying any race is fixed. I'm saying if you can argue it for one series, you can apply the same theories to other series and find ample 'evidence' for your point of view. Apples and oranges. Or perhaps if you insist on comparing, I might ask you where the gravel traps and runoff areas are between the track and the outside wall of a high speed oval? Where do you propose NASCAR add a runoff area on ovals so they can safely crane the cars away as they do in F1? Yeah, well I do remember a NASCAR Craftsman truck spinning and pancaking into a wall, leaving the truck more or less intact and killing its driver...this was just last season, too. Yes he does. You think its CHEAP to run a team in NASCAR?! Randy

<<If you can whip everybody's ***by creating the best package, then so be it. You won't have some sanctioning body immediately changing the rules on you as a reward for your hard work.>> Unless, of course, it's active suspension, traction control, launch systems... ;). I used to like F1, too -- and I still watch it (God knows why -- must be the suspense of hoping SOMETHING different will happen), but as far as sanctioning bodies go, the FIA/FOCA "partnership" has their heads as far up their own exhaust vents as anyone in the business. Bart Brown

>My bad, 9 out of 22 finished. And its usually more. Won't happen unless the Indy 500 fails to the point where George doesn't have any ability to spin things his way. Randy

He might well be able to do well in F1, but we don't have enough information to know. I think he'd need some serious testing time, though. Randy

Sad but true! The only way we started finally getting good Tour De France coverage was when the American Greg Lemond was doing well in the tour. Once he retired it has slowly gone back downhill. Mike

Robert Haviland wrote Hmmm, since I am watching F1, It's the first time I saw 1 racing partner let the other win (but in a certain way it's for obvious reasons). It's like warping on the NROS. I seen often people do this when they magically warped 1 lap in front of everybody. You don't remember at Daytona with Davey and his father. It's pretty easy to say that he maybe and probably let him win. Ewwww, never saw the movie "Freejack" ;-)) Seriously, safety is important in ANY type of racing. Formula 1, after the deaths of Razenburger (sp?) and Senna, did some serious steps into making F1 safer for the drivers. Since 3years the cars are safer, the***pit is wider, and helps the driver more in case of impact. Even CART cars are not as safe than F1 IMHO. Last year we saw P L E N T Y of dangerous crash. The safety areas are wide, and 97% of the crash are finished in the sand. Btw in Nascar and F1 we saw the leading racers be killed. From Fireball Roberts to Gilles Villeneuve. It's racing. Uh ??? I think the driver has to change gears <gggg>. I can agree for the cost, but Formula 1 is big bucks. I think this is illogic to the point you are making. The Scuderia or Williams-Mecachrome have more than 500 million $ US to spend during a year for their racing team. I don't think money grows from trees. Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

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>Sad but true! The only way we started finally getting good Tour De France >coverage was when the American Greg Lemond was doing well in the tour. Once >he retired it has slowly gone back downhill. >Mike >> Can't you get CBC or TSN in the States anywhere?If not maby just an >> american driver in the series would help.We can watch the race 2 diff >> ways:TSN live coverage or CBC next night repeat.It sure helps to have >> the World Champion from your country.:)

Well, adding to TSN and CBC... RDS, who is the brother-in-law of TSN (it's French), has Formula1 races since at least 14-15 years, mainly because of Gilles Villeneuve's popularity. And before RDS was born (In like 1988) it was TVSQ who was showing them. So all you people who live in the Northeast of the USA, if you have a good satellite dish I think you could have RDS. And they have qualification session, witch TSN doesn't have. Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

> >Why? Because the owner is afraid he'll mess up. What's more important - the driver or the > >car? The biggest reason NASCAR controls the technology is cost. The less > >the cost, the more teams. > You think its CHEAP to run a team in NASCAR?! In a relative sense, yes it is. You can run a two-car season of Winston Cup for what most F1 teams spend per race per car. And, you'd have several million left over for some kick-ass parties at Hooters... :-) ---Jim

> If you can whip >everybody's ***by creating the best package, then so be it. You >won't have some sanctioning body immediately changing the rules on you Yeah, right. Then explain where the following went: Turbos Active suspensions And how long it took to get push-button shifting. And how many times the fuel rules have changed MW Driving around by yourself on your own lap is a letup. I think you'll find a much wider distribution of points in NASCAR than any pointy-nose series, even by applying their scoring methods to NASCAR results. With more cars on the track, and running closer together (plus less than 40 people working in the pits) there's a lot of variability which makes for unexpected victories. MW