More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

Sorry for the tone but the bullshit never stops. Come on Sierra...Fix the ***ing thing!! The order of the mail is from the bottom up as sent and reply. I know it is a mess but read the whole and you will get it. I also emailed Rendition and they said it is not there problem anymore. It is Sierra's problem. Email the hell out of them daily and they will come around..help me out. Read on. =================================================== To: Name -remove because of spammers. Subject: RE: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION. Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:45:43 -0800 Hello, I'm sorry but I have no information on a "real patch" for the 2nd generation Rendition based cards. If you have purchased this product within the last 30 days, I can offer you your choice of either a refund or a credit of your purchase price toward the purchase of any of our products direct from our catalog. If you purchased the game within 90 days, you can exchange the product. Please return only your original game disks and all game specific documentation. Do not return your box sleeve or any other literature included with the game. Should you wish to use a credit of your purchase price to exchange for another product, we will need the following: 1) The program (disks and game specific documentation) 2) Proof of purchase price (receipt) 3) A check, money order or charge card number for any difference between the purchase price of the program you are returning and the chosen product. The address is: Sierra On-Line Exchanges/Returns 4100 West 190th Street Torrance, CA 90504 Chris-Sierra Tech

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> -----Original Message----- > From: Name remove because of spammers > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:33 PM > To: Hardware > Subject: RE: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION. > Hello Chris.. > The game does not run out of a dos prompt in windows. > There is no differance between this version "CART" and the the version

that

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> came with most rendition cards "ICR2 enhanced", except for the names > of the executables..is there? > Also why do MOST people who have a V2000..including "Swedbear" cannot get > the game to run as well without farmer patches in windows? >I want to to "WHEN" a real patch will be out...or I Im asking for a refund > as of now from you on the basis of misleading and or false advertising. > How do I get my money back? > Thanks.. > ========================================================== > >Hello, Unfortunately, CART Racing can't recognize the new v2x00

Rendition > chips from DOS mode. This is currently being researched, but for now you > will need to run the game from Windows 95. You can do this through the > >MS-DOS prompt, or from the Run option in the Start menu. > >Please let us know if you need any further assistance, and include > any previous messages with your reply. Many common problems and > questions are answered in the CART Racing Troubleshooting Guide (CARTTS.RTF), which is located in the WIN95\DESKTOP folder on the CART Racing

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> >Chris-Sierra Tech > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 11:24 PM > >> Subject: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION. > >> Ok. > >> Is Sierra going to make a REAL patch for this game so it runs properly > >> on a V2000 Rendition card? EVER?? > >> On the CART box is states "Rendition card". > >> The V2100 and 2200s are Rendition cards. > >> I am not willing to try all the Farmer patches out there, this is a

Sierra > >> product and should be supported. Or is it false advertising? "rendition card recommended" ============================================================

I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support. It worked excellent with that card and I know a lot of people are still enjoying it. While it would be nice, I don't think Sierra/Papyrus is obligated to update their discontinued products to support *all* possible future hardware releases...do you? It's hardly "misleading and or false advertising", as you suggest. Your chipset didn't even exist when the Rendition patches were released! The only people you have to be upset at are Rendition (for not making their V2000-series 100% backwards-compatible - apparently, it's not) and yourself (for buying a Rendition card in the first place). Sorry, Sean

On Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:37:58 -0500, Sean Ormond

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>I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to >complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a >repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support. It worked excellent with that >card and I know a lot of people are still enjoying it. While it would be nice, >I don't think Sierra/Papyrus is obligated to update their discontinued products >to support *all* possible future hardware releases...do you? It's hardly >"misleading and or false advertising", as you suggest. Your chipset didn't >even exist when the Rendition patches were released! >The only people you have to be upset at are Rendition (for not making their >V2000-series 100% backwards-compatible - apparently, it's not) and yourself >(for buying a Rendition card in the first place). >Sorry, >Sean

Surely Sean, your not one of those guys that believe the whole of gamedom is on the net, links to this group and should therefore know that this thing wont work with R2x00 chips. Sorry mate, CART is a now product on the shelves a scant 3 months in Sydney at least. The R2x00 cards are a now product also. Fred Bloggs looking at the game today will expect that a game with rendition ready on the box will work with his rendition based video card. No ifs or buts. Rgds - Piper

> Sorry for the tone but the bullshit never stops. > Come on Sierra...Fix the ***ing thing!! > (snipped for bandwidth, not content) I think we need to look at the CARt package and see what it really is. I'd be willing to guess that CART was repackaged only to have a product on the shelves to draw attention from Microsoft's CART Precision Racing. Last year we had no clue as to the merits of cpr but the screenshots certainly looked promising. So Papy has no new product to compete, or rather to keep it's identity in the marketplace. So they whipped up a new cd with the 3d patches, dusted off an unprinted tech book and shipped it out the door. Now what does this mean to us? Merely that ICR2 was a finished product 2 years ago and to this date continues to be a done product. Papy is moving full steam on GPL, N3, and CART21/2(icr3?) Will they pull people off those products, possibly endangering shipping dates etc to futz with a very finicky program? Doubtful. I am one of those who have a DSII and CART, I can run it somewhat successfully but not completely yet...so yes, it is a concern, but I am not looking to Sierra or Papy or Rendition to bail me out, I knew what I was getting, But I agree there are many users who have no clue about V1k's and V2k's. I would suggest the return the product. These thoughts are my own and are not associated with any company. dave henrie

It was only repackaged b/c Papy could no longer sell it using the name Indycar. -- Eric T. Busch >I think we need to look at the CARt package and see what it really is. I'd >be willing to guess that CART was repackaged only to have a product on the >shelves to draw attention from Microsoft's CART Precision Racing.

That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer applicable to what is now the CART series. No plot, no ***, just legalities. -- Bruce. "I envy people who drink. At least they have something to blame everything on." (Oscar Levant)

> That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that > it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer > applicable to what is now the CART series. > No plot, no ***, just legalities. Or maybe a combination of the two. You know, convienient coincidences, the need to rename & to draw attention from the Micro***product. -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing Need for Speed Racing http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/3794 Indycar driver, Craftsman truck driver, Virtual airline pilot, Flight Simulator scenery designer, Webmaster, Auto technician, father & husband....Who has time?

% That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that % it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer % applicable to what is now the CART series. % No plot, no ***, just legalities. Maybe! ;-) While I agree that the "Indycar" word had alot to do with this, I can't help but believe that "marketing" also had something to do with this. Since Papyrus has decided to keep their finger in the CART pie, I also believe that the re-packaging was done to keep up public awareness of their CART line (especially in an attempt to "compete" with CPR for shelf space). Companies like Sierra don't survive and prosper when they don't look out for their own best interest. It was a prudent business/marketing decision which I believe was triggered by the "Indycar" agreement between CART and Tony George. It's a little naive to believe the "sole" purpose was to get a package out there without the Indycar word. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that > it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer > applicable to what is now the CART series. > No plot, no ***, just legalities. > -- Though true, it's not quite that simple! The "Indy" thing prompted new packaging, manual and the very different 3D version. I have seen Sierra milk other titles in the same manner. The 3D rendition part is used as a selling point yet not properly supported. This is in effect a new product by Sierra and they can't be bothered doing some minor tweaking to make it all it appears to be. I'll bet a few programmers could sit down for a few days tops and get it up to speed. Why in the f&*% don't they? In fact, even though I don't even have a Rendition card and am not personally effected by this, I'll still be disappointed if Papy don't step forward and address this issue. -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

> I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to > complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a > repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support. Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. When it was first announced I thought it would have been a no brainer that it would work with the V2K's. I know a lot of people who purchased CART Racing even though they already had ICR2 thinking, and rightly so, that the V2K's would run it and run it real well. Even if the V2K's were not on sale yet it was certainly common knowledge that they were about to be. In any case, surely it is in Sierra's and Rendition's interest to get the thing working with the V2K's. I'm sure both would see significant increases in sales if they did. -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

> Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new > packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"? ---Jim

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>> Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new >> packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. >Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release >of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"? >---Jim

"Previously Released as Indycar Racing II Features 1995 Season". It also says. "Rendition Ready" "NEW! Rendition Ready for Super Speed With a graphics accelerator card using Rendition technology, blah blah." Shows lots of Rendition screenshots. If fact looks like all shots are from the Rendition version. Supported " Rendition Video Card" I think I know the point your trying to make Jim, however that re-release bit does not cut it. Someone had a go at fixing it with the beta patch. Why can't they just finish the job and make a lot of folk happy. What's your take on this situation? Rgds - Piper

> > Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new > > packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. > Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release > of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"? "Re-release" would argue in my favour wouldn't it. And what does this mean to a newbie with a new V2K that has never heard of ICR2 before. The fact is they have a newly packaged product on the shelves that braggs about "Rendition" but does not point out the non-compatibilty with V2K's. Many familiar with ICR2 purchased CART Racing and V2K's thinking all would be fine. And why shouldn't they have. It sounds to me that Verite and Sierra should get together and fix it instead of using the slave labour that the web often offers.

One point I think your both missing is, that "newbies" don't have V2k cards. Only those folks who are into racing Papyrus products or Sierra junkies have purchased Rendition cards. I have talked to several "newbies" at work and not one of them have any Idea what a Rendition card is. Only folks that are "in the know" have swapped out theit original cards for Rendition chipsets. However, the impression I have seen here on the ng was that many "experienced" users expected the CART repackaging to work out of the box with the newer V2k's. This, despite the fact that rumours of ICR2 NOT working with them have been around since about August of last year. dave henrie

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> > > Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new > > > packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. > > Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release > > of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"? > "Re-release" would argue in my favour wouldn't it. And what does > this mean to a newbie with a new V2K that has never heard of ICR2 > before. The fact is they have a newly packaged product on the shelves > that braggs about "Rendition" but does not point out the > non-compatibilty with V2K's. Many familiar with ICR2 purchased CART > Racing and V2K's thinking all would be fine. And why shouldn't they > have. It sounds to me that Verite and Sierra should get together and fix > it instead of using the slave labour that the web often offers.