CPR is now practically in the Bargain Bin

<<So CPR can be had for an effective $15>> And it's *almost* worth it! ;) Pretty good for the "greatest racing sim ever made"... really glad Microsoft supported it so well. Bart Brown

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>While browsing for other stuff at CompUSA today, I noticed that CPR is $35, >WITH a big sticker on it saying $20 rebate from MS that I don't recall >seeing before. Same sticker on the ones at Best Buy down the road but they >were still $49, unless they hadn't changed the price sticker on the shelf >(not uncommon). >So CPR can be had for an effective $15 or so if you look around. >Ken

Thanks, but no thanks! If it gets to $20, with a $35 rebate, THEN it would be worth consideration!!! Tim

While browsing for other stuff at CompUSA today, I noticed that CPR is $35, WITH a big sticker on it saying $20 rebate from MS that I don't recall seeing before. Same sticker on the ones at Best Buy down the road but they were still $49, unless they hadn't changed the price sticker on the shelf (not uncommon). So CPR can be had for an effective $15 or so if you look around. Ken

>>While browsing for other stuff at CompUSA today, I noticed that CPR is $35, >>WITH a big sticker on it saying $20 rebate from MS that I don't recall >>seeing before. Same sticker on the ones at Best Buy down the road but they

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>>were still $49, unless they hadn't changed the price sticker on the shelf >>(not uncommon). >>So CPR can be had for an effective $15 or so if you look around. >>Ken >Thanks, but no thanks! If it gets to $20, with a $35 rebate, THEN it

would >be worth consideration!!! >Tim Ok, sorry if I wasn't clear...the price is $35...AND it has a $20 rebate, effectively it's $15...so consider it hehe

Wow, you guys are incredibly f***en funny. So are your brothers here on r.a.s. You don't like the sim. We ALL know that you don't like it. We've heard you say it over and over and over and...... If you don't like CPR, then why not shut up about it and move on with your lives. Maybe try actually talking to a real live girl. If you are too shy, contact your favorite sim developer, stick your tongue down the back of their trousers, and I'm sure they will make you a really great sim woman that you can play with every day and then come to r.a.s. and tell us why it's the best and everyone else's sim woman sucks. I know you must be the ultimate experts on that subject as well. Also, don't forget to throw in quite a few of those clever, sarcastic comments that you think are so entertaining. All My Love, Dave (Not a Blatantly Obvious Microsoft Hater) Fisher

> Wow, you guys are incredibly f***en funny. So are your brothers here on What's with the funny stars there? You are using the word, so why don't you spell it out? Oh, you just pretend to be using *** words like that... snip What's the name of your fan club? l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

A case of a produce bubbling to its true vaule. Well, almost. Still a bit of down bubbling to go yet. Phillip McNelley

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:15:21 -0500, "DAVID G FISHER" >Wow, you guys are incredibly f***en funny. So are your brothers here on >r.a.s. You don't like the sim. We ALL know that you don't like it. We've >heard you say it over and over and over and...... If you don't like CPR, >then why not shut up about it and move on with your lives..... Wow - touched a nerve there. In the blue corner we have "CPR haters who can't move on with their lives", in the red corner we have "CPR hater haters who can't move on with their lives". Pots and kettles. Cheers! John

>>If you don't like CPR, then why not shut up about it and move on with your lives. Maybe try actually talking to a real live girl.>> Wow, this is just like those "LIVE *** *** sex slave" spams... <<Also, don't forget to throw in quite a few of those clever, sarcastic comments that you think are so entertaining.>> Oh, OK! How about this one: "Time to increase the Prozac drip, Nurse Ratchet..." BTW, the word is "f***ing", not f***en" -- I think the latter is a past-tense variant, as in "When we paid $50 for CPR, we got f***en!" I stand corrected -- as Tim pointed out, it will be almost worth it when the rebate exceeds the paying price by at least 25%...I'm gonna wait until it's 50%, myself... oughta be about 3 weeks. Bart (annoying, but lovable) Brown

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:34:57 GMT, "Ken Beard" >While browsing for other stuff at CompUSA today, I noticed that CPR is $35, >WITH a big sticker on it saying $20 rebate from MS that I don't recall >seeing before. Hmmm, that sounds more like the pricing you'd see on a successful two year old game (like... Papyrus CART), not a four month old "blockbuster" that's "selling very well, thank you". ;) Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

I understand the venom directed towards CPR, particularly given the hype for it, but its really not that bad. Its just not done yet. I hold out some hope that MS will do a competitive analysis with sims like F1RS and put out a version 2 that will make us all forgive them for the shortcomings of version 1 :) Randy Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

<<I hold out some hope that MS will do a competitive analysis with sims like F1RS and put out a version 2 that will make us all forgive them for the shortcomings of version 1 :)>> <--Hey! When did you grow a beard? Randy-- I admire your optimism, and I hope for the best as well -- but what about the people who paid good money (pre-Bargain Bin!) for version 1? Do you think it's likely that Microsoft will give v1's involuntary beta testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? As it has never happened before, to my knowledge, it would seem likely that those who took MS at their word (no pun intended) are going to receive the distinct pleasure of paying twice for a sim that should have been done right the first time, instead of one that was hustled out the door in time for Santa's elves to lug it all over the globe. And again, that's giving the very generous benefit of the doubt that MS even *plans* a v2. As for competitive analysis -- allow me one more biased opinion here: since Microsoft has always done things there own way, with no regard for standards except the doubtful ones they set themselves (recent iterations of Word and Excel come to mind), why would they stoop, at this late date, to even acknowledging the existence of other software manufacturers, let alone taking any lessons from them? MS, as we have seen time and again, is a law unto itself... Just some curious thoughts... Bart Brown

Who shit in your cornflakes? There was new information about a racing simulator (the subject of this group, if you haven't noticed) and it was posted. If it happens to be unflattering information about your pet sim that's just too ***y bad. That *would* be better than listening to you whine like one. Joe

the people who paid good money (pre-Bargain Bin!) for version 1?>> What about them? testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? >> Probably a $10 rebate. I've seen them do this kind of thing with sequels such as Cinemania updates, Flight Simulator updates ,etc. those who took MS at their word (no pun intended) are going to receive the distinct pleasure of paying twice for a sim that should have been done right the first time, instead of one that was hustled out the door in time for Santa's elves to lug it all over the globe.>> Well, that's why they have a return policy. We vote with our $$ they get the point. And lots of returns and dealers returning unsold stock is a strong message, even to Microsoft. *plans* a v2. >> Agreed. >> As for competitive analysis -- allow me one more biased opinion here: since Microsoft has always done things there own way, with no regard for standards except the doubtful ones they set themselves (recent iterations of Word and Excel come to mind), why would they stoop, at this late date, to even acknowledging the existence of other software manufacturers, let alone taking any lessons from them? MS, as we have seen time and again, is a law unto itself... >> I think you make the mistake of assuming that the Microsoft games business unit operates under the same philosophy and goals as the operating systems business unit. Games are not operating systems, and games can rarely be leveraged to sell other games. And yes, Microsoft HAS bowed to public pressure. msn is no longer a viable standalone online service because of the pressure of the Internet and the competitive advantage enjoyed by its online service competitors. Now msn is sold as a value-added internet provider. Microsoft wasn't thrilled with Java, either, but they ended up adopting it and selling development tools for it because they knew the public wanted it (and they didn't want to get left behind if everyone went to it). There are other examples, but I think you get the point. Finally, what we have to hope for is that Microsoft considers its CART license to be an ongoing series like Flight Simulator, so that, over time, it improves and we see more and more stuff done with it. Fortunately, as customers, we have alternatives. F1RS and anything from Papyrus come to mind. From my personal standpoint, I got a review copy of CPR so I wasn't out any money for it. However, because I'm such a CART fanatic and desparately want the world's greatest CART simulation, it couldn't hurt any more had I paid for it. I've paid $50 for worse games than CPR (and probably will again no matter how hard I try not to). I can afford the game...what hurts is the disappointment that my favorite sport is inadequately represented by the sim and doesn't give me the experience I crave. Again, F1RS is doing a great job filling that hole right now, so CPR just sees use on the Internet *** Zone and for hotlaps. Randy Just some curious thoughts... Bart Brown >> Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage [link lost in import]

>I admire your optimism, and I hope for the best as well -- but what >about the people who paid good money (pre-Bargain Bin!) for version 1? >Do you think it's likely that Microsoft will give v1's involuntary beta >testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? As it has never >happened before, to my knowledge, it would seem likely that those who MS routinely gives rebate coupons ($10 or $20 I forget which) to previous owners of MS Flightsim. I would expect the same here. With all the sales around Xmas a FS-95 owner could have upgraded to FS-98 for only $19. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

If you don't like CPR, Hmm............... interesting conection, wonder what Mr. Freud would think. If you don't like something you should immediately find a girl. To what? Talk to her about it? Take it out on her? Just because somebody is pissed off at the quality of a game you assume they need a life? Perhaps next time you sit down to write something, you should perhaps think, a least a little bit, first. Bobby Upward

For version 1 of CPR, it was obvious to me that MS had taken quite a few items from previous sims (ICR2, GP2, etc.) to create what they felt was the ultimate sim...However, Obvious shortcomings in the way the AI were implemented, underestimating hardware reqs (plus a few other glaring issues that made the final cut), were all ingredients for a less_than_spectacular product. My point being, that MS had (IMHO) copied many items from the above mentioned sims, but tweaked_and_pulled the software to their own liking. Let's hope they take note of what's hot (and what works) so that if they do CPR-2, it'll be a stellar success. Cheers! Marc

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> As for competitive analysis -- allow me one more biased opinion here: > since Microsoft has always done things there own way, with no regard for > standards except the doubtful ones they set themselves (recent > iterations of Word and Excel come to mind), why would they stoop, at > this late date, to even acknowledging the existence of other software > manufacturers, let alone taking any lessons from them? MS, as we have > seen time and again, is a law unto itself...

-- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com <remove '_*_' before replying>

Gee...don't know about you, but my sim-girl has plenty of problems at the moment, and I'm not sure what to do with her...er...it. Tell me, Mr. Sim_Girl_Expert, do you prefer the blonde, or the brunette sim- girl? Actually, I thought the sim-blonde was a bit over-rated, and I always had trouble loading her...er...it under Win95 D3D...Then I discovered (as I'm sure you have...nightly) that the blonde actually is better under 3Dfx, but of course, the Rendition version of the sim-brunette is quite a knock-out...but I degress... The problem I see seems to be driver_related. In your opinion, should I drive her...er...it to say, Bakersfield, or should I simply treat with virtual flowers and soft elevator musak? Respectfully, Billy (Just a sec Ma...I ain't done yet!) Gates

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> Wow, you guys are incredibly f***en funny. So are your brothers here on > r.a.s. You don't like the sim. We ALL know that you don't like it. We've > heard you say it over and over and over and...... If you don't like CPR, > then why not shut up about it and move on with your lives. Maybe try > actually talking to a real live girl. If you are too shy, contact your > favorite sim developer, stick your tongue down the back of their trousers, > and I'm sure they will make you a really great sim woman that you can play > with every day and then come to r.a.s. and tell us why it's the best and > everyone else's sim woman sucks. I know you must be the ultimate experts on > that subject as well. Also, don't forget to throw in quite a few of those > clever, sarcastic comments that you think are so entertaining. > All My Love, > Dave (Not a Blatantly Obvious Microsoft Hater) Fisher

-- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com <remove '_*_' before replying>

I hope so, since CPR does have quite a lot of redeeming features - driving just isn't numbered among them. I'm not sure I'd agree with "really not that bad", since I truly think it is that bad, but I still hope for a version 2 which addresses the shortcomings. CPR has a lot to like about it, but unfortunately the problems were in key areas such as handling and frame-rate which essentially killed it. I've yet to enjoy any form of driving in CPR except for hotlapping alone around Surfer's Paradise, and it is the only sim I can ever recall that happening with. I even spent many happy weeks with Monster Truck Madness! :-) Here's to a quality Version 2 <clink of glasses> :-) Cheers! John

% >I admire your optimism, and I hope for the best as well -- but what % >about the people who paid good money (pre-Bargain Bin!) for version 1? % >Do you think it's likely that Microsoft will give v1's involuntary beta % >testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? As it has never % >happened before, to my knowledge, it would seem likely that those who % MS routinely gives rebate coupons ($10 or $20 I forget which) to previous % owners of MS Flightsim. I would expect the same here. With all the sales % around Xmas a FS-95 owner could have upgraded to FS-98 for only $19. With the developing team of CPR gone from MS, what is the "real" likelihood of there being a version 2 from MS? It would almost seem that the "dumping" of the current product could be an indication that MS has decided not to pursue version 2. I highly doubt that they would be dumping the product only 4 months in to it's life. What happened to the European release? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Perhaps. Perhaps I should of. Perhaps. I would of thought a two year old could understand my comments but I'll try to explain. Basically, the SAME 8 people have been making the SAME dumb ass, sarcastic, trying to be amusing but failing, boring, repetitive, childish, exaggerated, misinformed, comments for the past three months concerning CPR. They just did it again in their replies to my posting. The fact that they would harbor such deep resentment towards a piece of software and continually take time out of their lives to attack it on a newsgroup would lead any person, with the slightest bit of COMMON SENSE, to see that these morons probably need to get out of the house sometime. They don't even have to talk to a girl. Maybe they could just pick up the leaves in the garden? So if you and the others who responded to my post still don't understand, disliking a game does not mean you don't have a life. Wasting large amounts of time whining about it does. I'm familiar with the name John Wallace on this newsgroup and his opinions about CPR. We disagree almost completely but at least he makes a point without a load of bullshit tossed in and then moves on. The people I'm talking about are unable to do the same. If you want to bring psychology into the discussion, then I wonder what Freud would think of people who have a very strange, deep resentment and dislike of, (of all things on earth and in history to dislike) a software company. I'm talking about the blatant Microsoft haters. It's hard to believe how ridiculous this little group of people, scattered throughout the world, appear with their mission to attack the Evil Empire. THAT is where the repetitive attacks on CPR are based and most people know it. Again, common sense. Even Freud would probably just kick them in the ass and say "Get over it!!". David G Fisher

> >The fact that they would harbor such deep resentment towards a piece of software>> David-- Ever stop to consider that maybe, just MAYBE, what they really resent is: A. Spending money for an unfinished, and maybe NEVER-finished product. B. Having Microsoft blow in here and announce to everyone that they're going to produce "the greatest racing sim ever made," and then blow it by rushing a half-baked product out the door in time for Christmas, then... C. Whine and run away when their collapsed souffl nets them well-deserved howls of derision and anger (would YOU pay 50 bucks for a collapsed souffl), then... D. Blame everything on some sort of "Anti-Microsoft Cabal", intent on kicking Bill's sand castle in his face. That's kind of like the "Worldwide Monolithic Communism" we used to hear about in the '60s, primarily as an excuse to waste our own military's lives in inexcusable foreign adventures that had more to do with money than with (self-determination". I assure you, I loathe Microsoft for what seem to me to be very good technical reasons, but I don't know any of the other people in this NG who feel as I do about CPR, and I hardly have time for Cabals these days. Just for the sake of hypothesis, think about those points. Then count the many messages Microsoft has posted in this newsgroup following the release of their last lame "patch" (at last count, I've seen -0-, zero, zilch, nada, nothing). Then ask out loud (remember, Microsoft is maintaining a presence in this newsgroup to help you, the little guy...) when, or *if*, Microsoft is going to release a version that actually works AS ADVERTISED, and what they're going to do for those suckers who paid to become unwilling and unwitting beta testers for one of the world's largest corporations. Do me another favor: don't hold you breath waiting for an answer from MS -- you're likely to hurt yourself. Bart Brown

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/deskapps/games/public/precisionracing/cart/tr... or/cpredit.zip

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>Randy BORL wrote >>I understand the venom directed towards CPR, particularly given the hype >for >>it, but its really not that bad. Its just not done yet. >Well, that's the big point why I consider C:PR a flop. It should had been >finished. >Btw, anybody thinks here that the darn track editor was only words. I would >not be surprised to see the track editor was only on paper, nothing else. >Heck I remember Dean saying "We will release the track editor very very >soon". Hmmm it was 3months ago. I think they lied to us just to make us >think they are actually working to make the game better <g>. >Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard on NROS> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ >May the downforce be with you and Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) >- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. >- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) >- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

It's kind of funny, all the "good" reviews of cpr have nothing but praise for every aspect of the game. It even won sport game of the year in one of the major publications. Unfortunately, none of the reviews ever talk about lack of flags, or the poor AI, or the poor frame rates, or the auto driving in the pits, or the controllability issues. Oh well, at least it looks good. Thats what real gamers want, right? >>I understand the venom directed towards CPR, particularly given the hype for >>it, but its really not that bad. Its just not done yet. I hold out some hope >>that MS will do a competitive analysis with sims like F1RS and put out a >>version 2 that will make us all forgive them for the shortcomings of version 1

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>I hope so, since CPR does have quite a lot of redeeming features - >driving just isn't numbered among them. >I'm not sure I'd agree with "really not that bad", since I truly think >it is that bad, but I still hope for a version 2 which addresses the >shortcomings. CPR has a lot to like about it, but unfortunately the >problems were in key areas such as handling and frame-rate which >essentially killed it. >I've yet to enjoy any form of driving in CPR except for hotlapping >alone around Surfer's Paradise, and it is the only sim I can ever >recall that happening with. I even spent many happy weeks with Monster >Truck Madness! :-) >Here's to a quality Version 2 <clink of glasses> :-) >Cheers! >John

I kind of resent what you say in this post. Yes, I am one who bashes cpr. I think there is good reason, but I've said enough before and won't "waste time out of my life" to explain the reasons again. Many people have a ligitimate gripe with the product. Look what we have to compare it too? GP2, with one of the best AI's in the racing sim business. ICR2, one of the pioneers, and still the best, along with Nascar2. Even the graphics in Psygnosis's F1 are better than cpr with better frame rates. And by the way, I get out once in a while, as a matter of fact, I race on an international level, so that might explain why I get upset when a "sim" behaves this bad. And I own stock in Microsoft. I want them to make lots of money for a long time to come. I just don't like cpr, and if I can save someone some of that precious hardearned cash by making him or her aware of an inferior product, I'm going to take time out of my life to do it.

>I hope so, since CPR does have quite a lot of redeeming features - >driving just isn't numbered among them. I guess we'll agree to disagree -- in my opinion, you didn't try hard enough <ducking> :) Handling is now a little more difficult than F1RS, mainly because F1RS cars are inherently (and unrealistically) stable. You can line up the car and let go of the wheel and it drives itself in a perfectly straight line on the straights. Great for a BMW, but for a F1 car going over a bumpy circuit at 150+mph? And you have to be more gradual with the throttle on turn exits than you do on F1RS, but the engine is more peaky so its easy to get 'sudden wheelspin' in F1RS. Frame rate isn't a problem for me, running on a P300. When I didn't have the 3DFX, its frame rates were more smooth than those of F1RS D3D, because the latter got hiccups quite a bit more (this is gone in the Glide version). Oh well. Yup. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

Well, thank you for the info. Lol just when I make relive the track editor on r.a.s. they decide to put it out +ADs--) Maybe it's not only a matter of timing. (hehe). It's time to take out C:PR out of the shelves and see how this can bring my Cart experience to a higher level. High that level could be presently. My first try will be the Gilles Villeneuve track (more knows has the Montreal F1 Grand Prix). Hopefully the editor is simple as SODA's one. +AD4-John wrote +AD4-Ok, it came out sooner than I thought :-) You can get the track editor from +AD4-The APEX http://cart.gamestats.com +AD4-You will also find information on this page to help you with editing tracks. Fran+AOc-ois M+AOk-nard +ADw-ymenard on NROS+AD4- Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ May the downforce be with you and Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) - Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. - Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) - Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

A local store here in Stuttgart, Germany has it since Monday, so I guess it will be available in other countries in the next days. Holger Reinhardt

Whjat kind of wierd *** theory is this now? I've seen literally dozens of people harshly criticizing CPR (mostly for frame-rate, handling, and AI issues) on this forum alone. You've spent more time whining about them than they do about the game. Guess that means you don't have a life. I've seen almost NONE of those here, one or two (usually some kid passing through) at most. There are a few who go into spastic over-reaction when anyone criticizes a Microsoft product for any reason. But I don't pretend to understand the psychology of that particular form of madness. Joe

My frame rates were just great, it was really cool how MS made a racing sim that showed a series of constantly updating still shots. Hell I musta got the thing working real good, had a frame rate of about 3-4 an hour *snicker*... Enjoy the greatest satisfaction ever built into a racing sim and return it to the store like I did.

<Oh well, at least it looks good. Thats what real gamers want, right?> I think it's the gamers' equivalent of the old hot rod adage: "if it don't go, CHROME it!" Bart Brown

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:34:57 GMT, "Ken Beard"

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>While browsing for other stuff at CompUSA today, I noticed that CPR is $35, >WITH a big sticker on it saying $20 rebate from MS that I don't recall >seeing before. Same sticker on the ones at Best Buy down the road but they >were still $49, unless they hadn't changed the price sticker on the shelf >(not uncommon). >So CPR can be had for an effective $15 or so if you look around.

One more "factual" point (lest DAVID G. FISHER thinks I'm part of the "vast right wing ***"): You can find a printable copy of the rebate slip on the MS CPR web pages (URL below). So even if the copy you buy doesn't have the sticker on it, you can get the rebate. The rebate is effective on purchases dated 2/15/98 - 9/30/98. [link lost in import] I'll now leave it to the "loyalist forces" and the members of the "anti-Microsoft cabal" to debate whether those dates indicate that CPR 2 will be released in October (extra credit for Joe if he can determine if October constitutes "late 1998") or if it will just take that long to unload this stinker... Hey, guys, its just a game! ;) Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:44:54 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown (edit) Bart, I love it! "Involuntary beta testers"! Excuse the expropriation if I decide to start using the phase in my signature. BTW, I intend never to buy another MS product if I can reasonably avoid it. I'm not a Microsoft-hater, I'm just not a glutton for punishment. Companies whose Support is UnSupportive only***me once. Except for AST, who screwed me so many times by the purchase of a single computer as to make a prison gang*** seem like high tea. But that's another story.... Michael Tracy

>T2ssIGl0IGNhbWUgb3V0IHNvb25lciB0aGFuIEkgdGhvdWdodCA6LSkgWW91IGNhbiBnZXQgdGhl >IHRyYWNrIGVkaXRvciBmcm9tDQoNClRoZSBBUEVYIGh0dHA6Ly9jYXJ0LmdhbWVzdGF0cy5jb20N >Cg0KWW91IHdpbGwgYWxzbyBmaW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9uIHRoaXMgcGFnZSB0byBoZWxwIHlv >dSB3aXRoIGVkaXRpbmcgdHJhY2tzLg0KDQpUaGFua3MNCkpvaG4NCg0KSm9obiB3cm90ZSBpbiBt >ZXNzYWdlICtBRHctNmQyamUzK0FDUS1xcHIrQUNRLTErQUVBLW5ld3MxLndvcmxkY2hhdC5... How rude. And a BmaW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9uIHRoaXM right back at you, sir! ;-) Joe

>I guess we'll agree to disagree -- in my opinion, you didn't try hard >enough <ducking> :) You better :-) When I think of the hours I spent (wasted?) trying to get the damn thing to respond in a realistic, fun or enjoyable manner, oooo I could.......something! ;-) Cheers! John

CPR eventually was released in England on Friday 20th Feb. I had been phoning MS regularly sionce before xmas trying to find out when the release date was and it kept on getting delayed. I thought the hold up might have been due to MS attempting to put right some of the problems from the originally released version (which I have read about here). Having now had a brief chance to have a go I don't think anything has been changed, so the reason for the hold-up seems a little strange. -- Peter Hooper >With the developing team of CPR gone from MS, what is the "real" >likelihood of there being a version 2 from MS? It would almost seem >that the "dumping" of the current product could be an indication that MS >has decided not to pursue version 2. I highly doubt that they would be >dumping the product only 4 months in to it's life. What happened to the >European release? >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:44:54 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown > (edit) > >Do you think it's likely that Microsoft will give v1's involuntary beta > >testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? > Bart, I love it! "Involuntary beta testers"!

Michael-- I hereby bequeath it to you ;) Bart

> One more "factual" point (lest DAVID G. FISHER thinks I'm part of >the "vast right wing ***"): > You can find a printable copy of the rebate slip on the MS CPR web... No, Jeff. I never said anything about a "right wing ***". What I said was that the same people: Yourself, Barton S.B., Ronald S., Byron F., Randy B., Tim, and Greg C., respond with basically the same comments to almost every posting related to CPR. There must be hundreds of regulars who post comments on sims here at r.a.s. but for some reason these names are so easy to recall. Maybe you can explain why. This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. Dave

<<The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are enjoying CPR>> I'm sure the marketing research is available to back that particular claim, no? I won't climb in *that* leaky boat and pass of my opinion as fact, but my opinion is that if many -- if not *most* -- well-seasoned sim veterans in this NG find CPR to be (to put it as charitably as possible) a flawed product, how do you think John Q. Christmas Daddy is making out with it? Considering that after two obviously less-than-successful patches and a LOT of work by people who actually know what they're doing the sim STILL doesn't work as advertised, and considering that most of the "thousands of people" who just fell over themselves in the week before Christmas to buy this sim haven't the slightest idea those patches even exist, and still have the original, unpatched version -- which even Microsoft admits doesn't work right -- well, how many of those thousands do you suppose have trashed the game already, or set it aside as unplayable, where it will gather dust until they forget about it? People subscribing to this NG are an unusual lot, as far as games go -- they REALLY care about them, and they'll put in the time and energy to make them work. Your average week-before-Christmas buyer is not of that ilk, and will simply discard what doesn't work, usually blaming his or her own ineptness. If thousands of people are enjoying this game (not counting the reviewers of commercial magazines that rely on advertising dollars for their very existence), their silence is deafening. Bart Brown

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> > Hmm............... interesting conection, wonder what Mr. Freud would > >think. If you don't like something you should immediately find a girl. To > >what? Talk to her about it? Take it out on her? > > Just because somebody is pissed off at the quality of a game you assume > >they need a life? Perhaps next time you sit down to write something, you > >should perhaps think, a least a little bit, first. > > Bobby Upward > Perhaps. Perhaps I should of. Perhaps. > I would of thought a two year old could understand my comments but I'll try > to explain. Basically, the SAME 8 people have been making the SAME dumb ass, > sarcastic, trying to be amusing but failing, boring, repetitive, childish, > exaggerated, misinformed, comments for the past three months concerning CPR. > They just did it again in their replies to my posting. The fact that they > would harbor such deep resentment towards a piece of software and > continually take time out of their lives to attack it on a newsgroup would > lead any person, with the slightest bit of COMMON SENSE, to see that these > morons probably need to get out of the house sometime. They don't even have > to talk to a girl. Maybe they could just pick up the leaves in the garden? > So if you and the others who responded to my post still don't understand, > disliking a game does not mean you don't have a life. Wasting large amounts > of time whining about it does. I'm familiar with the name John Wallace on > this newsgroup and his opinions about CPR. We disagree almost completely but > at least he makes a point without a load of bullshit tossed in and then > moves on. The people I'm talking about are unable to do the same. > If you want to bring psychology into the discussion, then I wonder what > Freud would think of people who have a very strange, deep resentment and > dislike of, (of all things on earth and in history to dislike) a software > company. I'm talking about the blatant Microsoft haters. It's hard to > believe how ridiculous this little group of people, scattered throughout > the world, appear with their mission to attack the Evil Empire. THAT is > where the repetitive attacks on CPR are based and most people know it. > Again, common sense. Even Freud would probably just kick them in the ass and > say "Get over it!!". > David G Fisher

I wonder if Frued (freak?) was familiar with the concept of becoming sophisticated to the point of confusion? Doubtful since his entire fame is a great example of it. It's not really that difficult to understand. We hate MS for releasing CPR well before it should have been (probably mid 98). We were promised the world and were delivered a rubbish heap. And to top it all off I had to go thru the hassle of DLing IE4 to get on the zone and have the friggin thing take over everything. For nothing. Not so hard to understand is it? Consider it counter balance for some of the ludicrous reviews this thing has recieved. Keep up the good work r.a.s. At least MS can't buy everyone here! I hate to see CPR spoken about in a positive light. It deserves all the hammering it gets. Hopefully the hammering will force MS to improve it till it's right. Speaking about it in a positive light certainly will not! Remember, MS is driven by profit, not pride, unfortunately. They will not improve this thing because they are perfectionists, they will improve it to make money or give up on it to save money. If it has a bad rep (and it should) then sales fall. Fix it MS or get out of racing sims! -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:25:40 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown

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>> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:44:54 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown >> (edit) >> >Do you think it's likely that Microsoft will give v1's involuntary beta >> >testers some kind of price break on the hypothetical v2? >> Bart, I love it! "Involuntary beta testers"! >Michael-- >I hereby bequeath it to you ;) >Bart

A scholar and a gentleman! Michael Tracy ------------------------------------------------------ Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" Homer: "Thanks, honey." ------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:08:58 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown %% how do you think John Q. Christmas Daddy is %making out with it? % Bart, You aren't going to *believe* this, but I ran into him the other night.. Turns out, he hates the thing too! He said to tell you hi, <btw> ;-I -Rob

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> > One more "factual" point (lest DAVID G. FISHER thinks I'm part of > >the "vast right wing ***"): > > You can find a printable copy of the rebate slip on the MS CPR web... > No, Jeff. I never said anything about a "right wing ***". What I said > was that the same people: Yourself, Barton S.B., Ronald S., Byron F., Randy > B., Tim, and Greg C., respond with basically the same comments to almost > every posting related to CPR. There must be hundreds of regulars who post > comments on sims here at r.a.s. but for some reason these names are so easy > to recall. Maybe you can explain why.

You can't stop me from posting my opinion, as well as I can't stop you. You may convince some newbies that CPR is an excellent sim, we (those terrible negative *** members) may save some newbies some dough... BTW, this is a forum to discuss racing sims by exchanging OPINIONS, okay? It's not a marketing tool. l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

> >I guess we'll agree to disagree -- in my opinion, you didn't try hard > >enough <ducking> :) > You better :-) When I think of the hours I spent (wasted?) trying to > get the damn thing to respond in a realistic, fun or enjoyable manner, > oooo I could.......something! ;-) Same here, and when I think about the time I didn't spend with F1RS because of my preference for CART Racing, it's even worse... l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

> This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are > enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. Hundreds of thousands of people are enjoying crack, but it doesn't make me want to run out and get some. And if it's volume that denotes quality, then don't overlook the fact that billions of flies are enjoying shit at this very moment. Trips

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>My frame rates were just great, it was really cool how MS made a racing sim >that showed a series of constantly updating still shots. Hell I musta got >the thing working real good, had a frame rate of about 3-4 an hour >*snicker*... >Enjoy the greatest satisfaction ever built into a racing sim and return it >to the store like I did.

If your frame rate is that bad, buy a new computer Randy

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> Bart, > You aren't going to *believe* this, but I ran into him the other > night.. > Turns out, he hates the thing too! > He said to tell you hi, <btw> ;-I > -Rob

If you see him again, ask him about that 50 bucks he owes me...;) Bart

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> > One more "factual" point (lest DAVID G. FISHER thinks I'm part of > >the "vast right wing ***"): > > You can find a printable copy of the rebate slip on the MS CPR web... > No, Jeff. I never said anything about a "right wing ***". What I said > was that the same people: Yourself, Barton S.B., Ronald S., Byron F., Randy > B., Tim, and Greg C., respond with basically the same comments to almost > every posting related to CPR. There must be hundreds of regulars who post > comments on sims here at r.a.s. but for some reason these names are so easy > to recall. Maybe you can explain why. > This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are > enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. > Dave

Well Dave, speaking for myself, I don't (as I recall) break into a thread where constructive criticism/discussion is happening. Maybe when it first came out I may have a little but more just to let people know than to ridicule anyone. It's just such a joke to me that it's hard not to have a laugh about it and if someone posts a comment that purely praises CPR then what would you expect. It's an irresistable flame! I also hate to see people whine about those of us that show CPR in it's true light since the people who hammer CPR are dead right and the more we can hurt the rep/sales of this game the better for us all. Never forget that the rudest player in this game is MICROSOFT! Call us different but the selling of alpha's goes over like a lead balloon. Not to mention patches that are arguably worse. -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

<snip>

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>Bart, I love it! "Involuntary beta testers"! Excuse >the expropriation if I decide to start using the >phase in my signature. >BTW, I intend never to buy another MS product >if I can reasonably avoid it. I'm not a Microsoft-hater, >I'm just not a glutton for punishment. Companies >whose Support is UnSupportive only***me once. >Except for AST, who screwed me so many times by >the purchase of a single computer as to make a >prison gang*** seem like high tea. But that's >another story.... >Michael Tracy

So Michael, we are to understand that your experience with AST was not entirely pleasant? <VBG> Ken

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> > This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are > > enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. > Hundreds of thousands of people are enjoying crack, but it doesn't make > me want to run out and get some. And if it's volume that denotes > quality, then don't overlook the fact that billions of flies are > enjoying shit at this very moment. > Trips

LOL. It seems to me that the thousands David is talking about are so CART fanatical that they'd say any CART sim was great. But I don't understand this at all. Lucky for you all, I'm not an American and thus not quite as big a CART fan as I otherwise would be. Otherwise, believe me, I'd be a whole lot worse than you think I am now! On the other hand, online racing at the Zone would be a lot more useful so I may be a little calmer - just a little :) -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

The thing is I love cart, so much that I bought it the first day it was out here in Texas. I can't stand it. Too bad I didn't wait until now and only spend $15.

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> > > This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are > > > enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. > > Hundreds of thousands of people are enjoying crack, but it doesn't make > > me want to run out and get some. And if it's volume that denotes > > quality, then don't overlook the fact that billions of flies are > > enjoying shit at this very moment. > > Trips > LOL. It seems to me that the thousands David is talking about are so > CART fanatical that they'd say any CART sim was great. But I don't > understand this at all. Lucky for you all, I'm not an American and thus > not quite as big a CART fan as I otherwise would be. Otherwise, believe > me, I'd be a whole lot worse than you think I am now! On the other hand, > online racing at the Zone would be a lot more useful so I may be a > little calmer - just a little :) > -- > We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences > and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness > will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to > service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

-- Thank You Marc Johnson Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside a dog, it is too dark to read -Mark Twain

What u said Byron!!!!! You echo the sentiments of many. As for this clown trying to defend MS....well, give it up buddy. I happen to be someone who likes MS, they have a lot of great products, but CPR aint one of them... &BTW , Freud was a ***ed idiot, who couldn't get his mind off his mother's crotch.

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> >My frame rates were just great, it was really cool how MS made a racing sim > >that showed a series of constantly updating still shots. Hell I musta got > >the thing working real good, had a frame rate of about 3-4 an hour > >*snicker*... > >Enjoy the greatest satisfaction ever built into a racing sim and return it > >to the store like I did. > If your frame rate is that bad, buy a new computer > Randy

Yeah, but return CPR anyway and put the extra bucks toward that new 'puter :) -- We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

>> > One more "factual" point (lest DAVID G. FISHER thinks I'm part of >> >the "vast right wing ***"): >> > You can find a printable copy of the rebate slip on the MS CPR web... >> No, Jeff. I never said anything about a "right wing ***". What I said >> was that the same people: Yourself, Barton S.B., Ronald S., Byron F., Randy >> B., Tim, and Greg C., respond with basically the same comments to almost >> every posting related to CPR. There must be hundreds of regulars who post >> comments on sims here at r.a.s. but for some reason these names are so easy >> to recall. Maybe you can explain why. >> This is getting boring. The last thing I'll say is thousands of people are

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>> enjoying CPR and I hope that doesn't upset you. >> Dave > Well Dave, speaking for myself, I don't (as I recall) break into a >thread where constructive criticism/discussion is happening. Maybe when >it first came out I may have a little but more just to let people know >than to ridicule anyone. It's just such a joke to me that it's hard not >to have a laugh about it and if someone posts a comment that purely >praises CPR then what would you expect. It's an irresistable flame! I >also hate to see people whine about those of us that show CPR in it's >true light since the people who hammer CPR are dead right and the more >we can hurt the rep/sales of this game the better for us all. Never >forget that the rudest player in this game is MICROSOFT! Call us >different but the selling of alpha's goes over like a lead balloon. Not >to mention patches that are arguably worse.

Patches that are arguably worse, hehehehe Whats that game you are playing that is on its 7th patch and people are still complaining! Ohhhh, I shouldnt say this stuff right now, Atleast untill I have tried the Demo for 2 min, and become an Expert reviewer like you Byron. But I did try to run the demo, and the damn thing didnt run :)

1. Demo requires a 3Dfx card. 2. 7th patch is almost perfect. I have never seen a _game_ like this ULTRA realism. 3. CPR SUX > Patches that are arguably worse, hehehehe Whats that game you are playing > that is on its 7th patch and people are still complaining! > Ohhhh, I shouldnt say this stuff right now, Atleast untill I have tried the > Demo for 2 min, and become an Expert reviewer like you Byron. But I did try > to run the demo, and the damn thing didnt run :)

7th patch is almost perfect Well I would hope so!

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>1. Demo requires a 3Dfx card. >2. 7th patch is almost perfect. I have never seen a _game_ like this ULTRA >realism. >3. CPR SUX >> Patches that are arguably worse, hehehehe Whats that game you are

playing >> that is on its 7th patch and people are still complaining! >> Ohhhh, I shouldnt say this stuff right now, Atleast untill I have tried the >> Demo for 2 min, and become an Expert reviewer like you Byron. But I did try >> to run the demo, and the damn thing didnt run :)