Voodoo II found to have overheating problems!

Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about it at http://gamepad.org/

> Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about > it at http://gamepad.org/ And read about 3Dfx's response to Diamond's suspicious, conveniently timed criticism at Operation 3Dfx: http://www.op3dfx.com/.

>Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about >it at http://gamepad.org/ it's a bunch of bullshit given by Diamond at the 11th hour. Sour grapes. Creative stunned them by being 1st to market and for producing a 12 MB board. The horseshit article was posted by Gamecenter who didn't even contact 3dfx to get their side of the story. 3dfx has posted a response to this.... to see this response, along with a landslide of discussion on this topic, go to 3dfx.products.voodoo2

Yep, both 3Dfx and Creative are saying it's bullshit, and I'm sure 3Dfx has put the reference boards through much more rigerous testing than Diamond has. As for Gamecenter, they've been ripping on Voodoo2/3Dfx left and right. Remember back around ComDex when people were posting 100 FPS in Quake and they wouldn't agree with the results until they'd tested one themselves. Something about they couldn't trust 3Dfx because they officiated the tests. Course, 3Dfx was testing on a MB nailed to a 2x4 with a Voodoo2, so I kinda wonder how you could skew the tests. Anyways, Gamecenter got a reference board at Comdex and went off to test on their own at Jazz Multimedia's booth. Guess what, pretty much 100 FPS in Quake like everyone was posting. Right now, I wouldn't believe a word Gamecenter posts about Voodoo2. They've got some kind of grudge against 3Dfx. Mark

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>>Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about >>it at http://gamepad.org/ >it's a bunch of bullshit given by Diamond at the 11th hour. Sour grapes. >Creative stunned them by being 1st to market and for producing a 12 MB >board. The horseshit article was posted by Gamecenter who didn't even >contact 3dfx to get their side of the story. >3dfx has posted a response to this.... to see this response, along with a >landslide of discussion on this topic, go to 3dfx.products.voodoo2

What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners. Scott Sellers of 3dfx has already posted on the 3dfx newsgroup....to paraphrase in my words....DIAMOND is full of shit. The Voodoo2 has been tested extensively in both artificial heat and cold with varying voltages and other creative things that might be found in some geniuses home computer....it passed those tests...needless to say. Yes I think that covers all that needs to be said of Diamonds shitty attempt to gain market share. Full of shit. PAPA DOC Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

>Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about >it at http://gamepad.org/ There is no overheating problem. Diamond has fabricated this story to cast doubt into the minds of those who are buying Creative's Voodoo2 boards. If you'd bother to research it instead of using it to get hits on your page, you would find many inaccuracies within.

> And read about 3Dfx's response to Diamond's suspicious, conveniently > timed criticism at Operation 3Dfx: http://www.op3dfx.com/. Where exactly *is* the response on Op3Dfx? I've got text from Jim Carlton referring to it, but I can't find the text of Scott Seller's original post. Can you give us a full URL to it? -- Jay C. Parangalan, http://www.jps.net/firefly0/ aka "Jaenathan AzureRose" of River's Rest, Elanthia aka "Unicorn21" of Magic Edge, Novaworld, et. al.

> Where exactly *is* the response on Op3Dfx? I've got text from Jim Carlton > referring to it, but I can't find the text of Scott Seller's original post. > Can you give us a full URL to it? http://www.op3dfx.com/ (that's about as specific as their URL allows). Click on the archived news dated yesterday, the 19th.

Perhaps if YOU had bothered to "research" it (before speaking from ignorance) you would find that we also printed 3dfx's response. If I was a Diamond lover then I certainly wouldn't have bothered to preorder a 3d Blaster Voodoo 2, now would I? We only printed what both Diamond and 3dfx have publicly stated! Ken P.S> BTW, since we don't accept advertising on our site, we don't worry about hits. Of course, if you'd bother to do your "research," you would have known that. The Game Pad http://gamepad.org/

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> >Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about > >it at http://gamepad.org/ > There is no overheating problem. Diamond has fabricated this story to > cast doubt into the minds of those who are buying Creative's Voodoo2 > boards. If you'd bother to research it instead of using it to get > hits on your page, you would find many inaccuracies within.

> > Where exactly *is* the response on Op3Dfx? I've got text from Jim Carlton > > referring to it, but I can't find the text of Scott Seller's original post. > > Can you give us a full URL to it? > http://www.op3dfx.com/ (that's about as specific as their URL allows). > Click on the archived news dated yesterday, the 19th. Hehe, found it. Methinks you are letting the frames get in the way. For anyone else who wants to jump right to it: http://www.op3dfx.com/news/m0298/d19/news.shtml#MARK91 -- Jay C. Parangalan, http://www.jps.net/firefly0/ aka "Jaenathan AzureRose" of River's Rest, Elanthia aka "Unicorn21" of Magic Edge, Novaworld, et. al.

Sheesh, Ken!! I was willing to ignore this thread until you spouted off and made yourself look like a complete ***. Just about everybody that reads the ***you guys spew out on the web views it as biased. If it is, fine. If it isn't, that's great. But that doesn't give you the right to be a ***.

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>Perhaps if YOU had bothered to "research" it (before speaking >from ignorance) you would find that we also printed 3dfx's >response. If I was a Diamond lover then I certainly wouldn't >have bothered to preorder a 3d Blaster Voodoo 2, now would >I? We only printed what both Diamond and 3dfx have publicly >stated! >P.S> BTW, since we don't accept advertising on our site, we >don't worry about hits. Of course, if you'd bother to do >your "research," you would have known that. >The Game Pad >[link lost in import] >(at this point, what hardball wrote is not of interest)

-- ========================================================= John Simmons (Redneck techno-Biker) - Zerex12 http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html If you want to send me email, go to the URL shown above and click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Talk about a biased ***! Look in the mirror. You say "the ***you guys spew out on the web"? Who is you guys? Anyone that writes anything that is published anywhere on the web? In anewsgroup? At a website? At our site? What a biased, idotic statement. Give me specifics please, especially if you are going to call me a "***"! Methinks you are the "***ly" one!

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> Sheesh, Ken!! I was willing to ignore this thread until you spouted > off and made yourself look like a complete ***. Just about > everybody that reads the ***you guys spew out on the web views it as > biased. If it is, fine. If it isn't, that's great. But that doesn't > give you the right to be a ***. > >Perhaps if YOU had bothered to "research" it (before speaking > >from ignorance) you would find that we also printed 3dfx's > >response. If I was a Diamond lover then I certainly wouldn't > >have bothered to preorder a 3d Blaster Voodoo 2, now would > >I? We only printed what both Diamond and 3dfx have publicly > >stated! > >P.S> BTW, since we don't accept advertising on our site, we > >don't worry about hits. Of course, if you'd bother to do > >your "research," you would have known that. > >The Game Pad > >[link lost in import] > >(at this point, what hardball wrote is not of interest) > -- > ========================================================= > John Simmons (Redneck techno-Biker) - Zerex12 > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > If you want to send me email, go to the URL shown above > and click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > ========================================================= > Sheesh, Ken!! I was willing to ignore this thread until you spouted > off and made yourself look like a complete ***. Just about > everybody that reads the ***you guys spew out on the web views it as > biased. If it is, fine. If it isn't, that's great. But that doesn't > give you the right to be a ***. > >Perhaps if YOU had bothered to "research" it (before speaking > >from ignorance) you would find that we also printed 3dfx's > >response. If I was a Diamond lover then I certainly wouldn't > >have bothered to preorder a 3d Blaster Voodoo 2, now would > >I? We only printed what both Diamond and 3dfx have publicly > >stated! > >P.S> BTW, since we don't accept advertising on our site, we > >don't worry about hits. Of course, if you'd bother to do > >your "research," you would have known that. > >The Game Pad > >[link lost in import] > >(at this point, what hardball wrote is not of interest) > -- > ========================================================= > John Simmons (Redneck techno-Biker) - Zerex12 > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > If you want to send me email, go to the URL shown above > and click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

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>>Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about >>it at http://gamepad.org/ >There is no overheating problem. Diamond has fabricated this story to >cast doubt into the minds of those who are buying Creative's Voodoo2 >boards. If you'd bother to research it instead of using it to get >hits on your page, you would find many inaccuracies within.

Let Gamecenter know what you think of their continuing attempts to sabotage 3DFX.

yes, I do remember those articles, and many others with an anti-3dfx slant too. Simple fact, GameCenter is owned by CNET, who is owned to a significant extent by Intel. Intel is producing the next wonder-chip, the i740. The i740 is direct competition to the 3dfx chip. It ain't rocket science fellas . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- Zif NOTE: please remove " .anti-spam " to reply via email

Don't you just love the way Creative is sticking it to Diamond? Creative: Can you bend down a little more please? Diamond: Sure thing! But can you slow down a bit? I'm sensing some hoverheating. I currently own a Monster myself. Care to gess what I'm getting next? Hints: It as 12 meg. on board memory. It's shipping feb. 20th. (hek! that's today!) It aint from Diamond. Mario Mendes Not so proud owner of a monster 3D. Futur owner of a Creative Voodoo ][ board.

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> Yes I think that covers all that needs to be said of Diamonds shitty > attempt to gain market share. Full of shit. > PAPA DOC > >Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about > >it at http://gamepad.org/ > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Infamous > Pink Flamingo Pilot...

I see...so if someone calls you a *** and an *** and you mirror it back to them, then you are condemned for defending yourself? I sense a double standard here. Ever heard of don't dish it out if you can't take it? I don't believe that I am the one who began the name calling. John called me a *** and an *** after I simply responded to someone who accused me of not doing research. I then told them to do research before pointing the finger. I didn't attack anyone personally or call anyone names. John did that and I simply threw his names back at him? Yet you say you agree with him. That is your right, however there is definately a double standard here. Ken The Game Pad [link lost in import]

to take finger to keyboard and send: Keep digging that hole -- I agree with John, especially in light of the response. >> Sheesh, Ken!! I was willing to ignore this thread until you spouted >> off and made yourself look like a complete ***. Just about >> everybody that reads the ***you guys spew out on the web views it as >> biased. If it is, fine. If it isn't, that's great. But that doesn't >> give you the right to be a ***.

Hey I think that you guys are getting way out of hand... I understand if someone accuses another for doing something that is incorrect than I can see the defensive side coming out, but to be honest, I think that ken is correct by saying that he did not do any attacking until he was attacked and then he did just state some facts, something that he was accused of not researching... But if you do not believe me look at the threads and read them as they came in..

Lets face it, guys, he has a constitutional right to be a *** and an ***, it is under the First Ammendment of the Constitution. Wheither or not we give him any credibiltiy in the future is up to us. BTW, did yall happen to ask California Graphics, Orchid, or Obsidian if they had any overheating problems? Seems to me all diamond has to do to fix this "problem" is glue on a heatsink or fan (there are tons of 486 fans lying around) on the chip and the problem is solved......

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>I see...so if someone calls you a *** and an *** and you mirror it back >to them, then you are condemned for defending yourself? I sense a double >standard here. Ever heard of don't dish it out if you can't take it? I don't >believe that I am the one who began the name calling. John called me a *** >and an *** after I simply responded to someone who accused me of not doing >research. I then told them to do research before pointing the finger. I didn't >attack anyone personally or call anyone names. John did that and I simply threw >his names back at him? Yet you say you agree with him. That is your right, >however there is definately a double standard here. > Ken >The Game Pad >[link lost in import]

Whoa Papa, tell us how you really feel about it. Long time no get shot down- Mike "Longhorn" Davis "Fly Low and Avoid Enemy Radar."

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> What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by > Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb > board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world > cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 > offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds > right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are > completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly > wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners. > Scott Sellers of 3dfx has already posted on the 3dfx newsgroup....to > paraphrase in my words....DIAMOND is full of shit. The Voodoo2 has > been tested extensively in both artificial heat and cold with varying > voltages and other creative things that might be found in some > geniuses home computer....it passed those tests...needless to say. > Yes I think that covers all that needs to be said of Diamonds shitty > attempt to gain market share. Full of shit. > PAPA DOC > >Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about > >it at http://gamepad.org/ > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Infamous > Pink Flamingo Pilot...

-- Michael S. Davis Creative Media-Works Computer/Audio/Video Convergence "from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." http://www.creativemedia-works.com

And in the end, everyone is looking like an *** except Ken. How interesting...

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>>>Diamond has discovered overheating problems in the Vodoo II. Read about >>>it at http://gamepad.org/ >>There is no overheating problem. Diamond has fabricated this story to >>cast doubt into the minds of those who are buying Creative's Voodoo2 >>boards. If you'd bother to research it instead of using it to get >>hits on your page, you would find many inaccuracies within. >Let Gamecenter know what you think of their continuing attempts to >sabotage 3DFX.

Bender bender (at) werewolves (dot) org

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:23:41 -0800, "Michael S. Davis"

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>Whoa Papa, tell us how you really feel about it. Long time no get shot >down- Mike "Longhorn" Davis > "Fly Low and Avoid Enemy Radar." >> What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by >> Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb >> board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world >> cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 >> offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds >> right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are >> completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly >> wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners. >> PAPA DOC >> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand >> Infamous >> Pink Flamingo Pilot...

Hey Papa, i guess you wont be buying Diamond then? <g> Seriously, since Creative is on the verge of shipping their V2 cards (or so they want us to belive) Will the lucky sods here that do get CL cards please post your experiance with it, I'm very interested in OGL performence (as meny of you probably do also) Specially does V2 need an OGL mini library to run or does it support OGL on chip? Thanks Flounder

How could it do it w/o a driver? Every card needs a driver to run. <SNIP>

> Lets face it, guys, he has a constitutional right to be a *** and an > ***, it is under the First Ammendment of the Constitution. > Wheither or not we give him any credibiltiy in the future is up to us. (note: Comment on past thread, not necessarily anything to do with your message) To wade into this for no apparent reason, Ken was the initial target of abuse. Ken should have likely made his first post a little less absolute than "Diamond has found overheating problem" (rather, say "Diamond CLAIMS overheating problem), but in his reponse to being attacked he clarified his position in the following manner: 1) He has posted 3DFX's response. 2) He has no advertising revenue, thus no desire for more "hits". 3) He is not a Diamond flunkie, since he has ordered a Creative board. I found nothing in Ken's response to warant being called an "***" several times. He should have worded his initial message more carefully instead of taking Diamond's announcement as fact, but skewer him for that. The way some went off on his perfectly calm and logical response just makes themselves look bad. And yes, I find Diamond's tactics absoutely abhorrent.

> I found nothing in Ken's response to warant being called an "***" several > times. He should have worded his initial message more carefully instead of taking > Diamond's announcement as fact, but skewer him for that. The way some went off on > his perfectly calm and logical response just makes themselves look bad. > And yes, I find Diamond's tactics absoutely abhorrent. Agreed. Wording it Diamond "claims" to have found.... would have been more accurate. Definitely my oversight on that! Live and learn.... Basically, I just wanted to present both sides of the story so that people could make a somewhat educated decision as to their purchase. I'm still waiting for the Creative card and hope I won't be disappointed! Ken The Game Pad [link lost in import]

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>What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by >Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb >board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world >cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 >offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds >right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are >completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly >wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners.

It should be interesting to see if 3dfx has any "problems" getting Diamond their quota of V2 chips :)

***in' A. Cut out the middleman and lets just send our money directly to 3dfx. They deserve it a hell of a lot more than Diamond or Creative. I hate middlemen. They don't deserve a dime. Jeff

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>>What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by >>Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb >>board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world >>cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 >>offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds >>right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are >>completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly >>wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners. >It should be interesting to see if 3dfx has any "problems" getting Diamond >their quota of V2 chips :)

> ***in' A. Cut out the middleman and lets just send our money directly to > 3dfx. They deserve it a hell of a lot more than Diamond or Creative. I hate > middlemen. They don't deserve a dime. > Jeff Well, the word middlemen is not the right one for board makers. 3Dfx produces chip sets, they don't do the boards. So you don't want to pay Diamond or Creative for producing the boards? Hmm, where do we plug those chips from 3Dfx?? ;^) BTW, I probably will rethink my decision to buy the next Voodoo board from the "jewel company"... l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

So why doesn't 3dfx just contract to make the boards themselves and sell them direct, as well as distributing them? They'd make a LOT more money. Creative and Diamond are hardly DESIGNING boards, they take the 3dfx reference design/drivers and produce it, then slap little "DIAMOND" and "CREATIVE" logos on both. Hardly a feat of engineering genius. Jeff >> ***in' A. Cut out the middleman and lets just send our money directly to >> 3dfx. They deserve it a hell of a lot more than Diamond or Creative. I hate

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>> middlemen. They don't deserve a dime. >> Jeff >Well, the word middlemen is not the right one for board makers. 3Dfx >produces >chip sets, they don't do the boards. So you don't want to pay Diamond or >Creative for producing the boards? Hmm, where do we plug those chips >from >3Dfx?? ;^) >BTW, I probably will rethink my decision to buy the next Voodoo board >from >the "jewel company"... >l8er >ronny >-- > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

>So why doesn't 3dfx just contract to make the boards themselves and sell >them direct, as well as distributing them? They'd make a LOT more money. >Creative and Diamond are hardly DESIGNING boards, they take the 3dfx >reference design/drivers and produce it, then slap little "DIAMOND" and >"CREATIVE" logos on both. Hardly a feat of engineering genius. Having those names, and maybe more importantly, their distribution, equates to sales. For better or worse, people recognize, and buy, Diamond and Creative products. They have recognition, get the shelf space, get the OEM's in the big-name (Dell, Gateway, etc) systems. Getting them to make cards with your chipset equates to big sales and profit.

If you reread my post you'll see that I didn't use the word "desinging" but "producing". Of course, some companies modify the reference boards enough to call it a design change (e.g. TV output). l8er ronny

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> So why doesn't 3dfx just contract to make the boards themselves and sell > them direct, as well as distributing them? They'd make a LOT more money. > Creative and Diamond are hardly DESIGNING boards, they take the 3dfx > reference design/drivers and produce it, then slap little "DIAMOND" and > "CREATIVE" logos on both. Hardly a feat of engineering genius. > Jeff

snip > >Well, the word middlemen is not the right one for board makers. 3Dfx > >produces > >chip sets, they don't do the boards. So you don't want to pay Diamond or > >Creative for producing the boards? Hmm, where do we plug those chips > >from > >3Dfx?? ;^) l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

no shit, I agree - 3Dfx rules!!!! Same with ID software.***activision (distributed Quake 2)... we should have given our money to ID.

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>***in' A. Cut out the middleman and lets just send our money directly to >3dfx. They deserve it a hell of a lot more than Diamond or Creative. I hate >middlemen. They don't deserve a dime. >Jeff >>>What a coincidence!!!! They are getting their heads handed to them by >>>Creative's earlier release date and better product options (ie 12mb >>>board which Diamond says we dont need) with people all over the world >>>cancelling their Diamond pre orders to get the Creative Voodoo2 >>>offerings and all of a sudden Diamond finds a bug. oooh yea....sounds >>>right to me. Actually Diamond has just convinced me that they are >>>completely full of shit....and that if I were 3dfx I would strongly >>>wonder whether they should continue being one of my partners. >>It should be interesting to see if 3dfx has any "problems" getting Diamond >>their quota of V2 chips :)

Jeff, You obviously don't know much about production design. As a circuit board designer (Independant consultant), I can tell you that you can't just take a schematic, slap down a few components and sell a couple hundred thousands boards. If you don't understand all the aspects of the physical developement processes, then the addage "Garbage in, Garbage out" applies. The minutest of detail, such as a via (through hole) size, or component pad geometry, will make or break a product! I don't know what proffession you are in, but I'm sure that you must get misconceptions about what you do. Think before you start typing!

>So why doesn't 3dfx just contract to make the boards themselves and sell >them direct, as well as distributing them? They'd make a LOT more money. >Creative and Diamond are hardly DESIGNING boards, they take the 3dfx >reference design/drivers and produce it, then slap little "DIAMOND" and >"CREATIVE" logos on both. Hardly a feat of engineering genius. Because 3Dfx doesn't have the distribution and marketing channels that Creative and Diamond do. This is really a much bigger thing than it sounds like. If Diamond wasn't selling the Monster 3D, I'm sure this would have been a large loss for 3Dfx. Consider that the Monster 3D is usually the ONLY 3Dfx card you find advertised in magazines, catalogs, and sold in retail stores. That's because Diamond pays big bucks to make their products visible through these channels. And I'd also guess that if 3Dfx felt they could make more money using your suggestion, they'd have done it alrady. They are a business, and they do consider such things when designing their business model.

I agree too 3Dfx forever > no shit, I agree - 3Dfx rules!!!! > Same with ID software.***activision (distributed Quake 2)... we > should have given our money to ID. BETTER STILL straight to Johnny Carmack ;)

Why? All he does is buy more and more expensive ferraris and trick them out even further. What's up with all these tech geeks (Bill Gates, John Carmack) getting totally tricked out monster funny cars? Are cars that exciting? I'll take a tricked out computer over a tricked out car any old day. After all, I already have a girlfriend, so that car's not going to do me any good.. <g> Jeff

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>I agree too >3Dfx forever >> no shit, I agree - 3Dfx rules!!!! >> Same with ID software.***activision (distributed Quake 2)... we >> should have given our money to ID. >BETTER STILL straight to Johnny Carmack ;)

Hmm. Good, but not good enough. You may have heard of the Yamaha DB50XG wavetable daughterboard for soundcards. This doesn't use any drivers of it's own. It relies solely on the external MIDI port on soundcards. Oh, and it sounds great...better than the AWE64 even.

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> How could it do it w/o a driver? Every card needs a driver to run. > <SNIP> > > Specially does V2 need an OGL mini library to run or does it support > > OGL on chip?

-- Name: Default "I once went into a general store, but they wouldn't let me buy anything specific..."

Same thing with the Roland Sound Canvas. Just set the game or app using it to port 330, no drivers needed. (You need to tell win95 that the card is there though, by using the normal MPU401 driver so it wont use FM synthesis for win95 based programs that dont allow independent port configuration). On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:16:13 +0000, Robert Phillips

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>Hmm. Good, but not good enough. You may have heard of the Yamaha DB50XG >wavetable daughterboard for soundcards. This doesn't use any drivers of >it's own. It relies solely on the external MIDI port on soundcards. >Oh, and it sounds great...better than the AWE64 even. >> How could it do it w/o a driver? Every card needs a driver to run. >> <SNIP> >> > Specially does V2 need an OGL mini library to run or does it support >> > OGL on chip?

remove the "faked" in my email address to email me via usenet reply...done to foil the USENET spam-bots... Any spam or junk email that is sent to me will have the sender charged a $400 dollar proofreading fee and a $100 dollar harassment fee. Do not send unsolicited email to this address. Sending email automatically acknowledges agreement to these terms. "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited adverti***t to such equipment. By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation." - Antos

> So why doesn't 3dfx just contract to make the boards themselves and sell > them direct, as well as distributing them? They'd make a LOT more money. They'd also need to invest (risk) a LOT more money building plants, buying capital equipment, building a distribution mechanism and sales force, etc... They don't make 3dfx boards for the same reason they don't make sound cards, motherboards, memory, or a whole host of other things and Diamond doesn't design core chipsets for graphics cards. Specialization ensures that companies concentrate on what they're good at, rather than trying to do everything. Investing in a fab for chips and equipment for PCB stuffing and soldering isn't core to what 3dfx does. Diamond and Creative already have experience in and capital equipment to manufacture boards. So they do that, 3dfx does the chip design and everybody makes more money than if any of them did the whole thing soup to nuts... Creative and Diamond are doing more than you probably give them credit for. In fact, I'd argue that they ARE designing boards, just not the core graphics processor. ---Jim

> Why? All he does is buy more and more expensive ferraris and trick them out > even further. What's up with all these tech geeks (Bill Gates, John Carmack) > getting totally tricked out monster funny cars? Are cars that exciting? I'll > take a tricked out computer over a tricked out car any old day. After all, I > already have a girlfriend, so that car's not going to do me any good.. <g> There comes a point (pretty early on actually) where you just can't trick out a computer anymore... If you have enough money for a tricked out computer and tricked out car, why not have both? Just try to stay away from the tricked out girlfriends... :-) Sorry, couldn't stop myself. ---Jim

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> They'd also need to invest (risk) a LOT more money building plants, > buying capital equipment, building a distribution mechanism and sales > force, etc... > They don't make 3dfx boards for the same reason they don't make sound > cards, motherboards, memory, or a whole host of other things and > Diamond doesn't design core chipsets for graphics > cards. > Specialization ensures that companies concentrate on what they're good > at, rather than trying to do everything. Investing in a fab for chips > and equipment for PCB stuffing and soldering isn't core to what 3dfx > does. Diamond and Creative already have experience in and capital > equipment to manufacture boards. So they do that, 3dfx does the chip > design and everybody makes more money than if any of them did the > whole thing soup to nuts... > ---Jim

Anybody remember the plant that Ford built. Damn thing was a mile or so long, steel, ***, etc... went in one end, a car came out the other. It only operated for a few years before they shut it down, it cost them to much money to do everything themselves. -- Remove NOT.HERE to reply (anti-spam device) ICQ# 6255690 Knoxville, Tn. Where the men are men, and the Women are SEC Champions and defending NCAA Champions Go Lady Vols (33-0)