F1rs

Hello, all: It's my first time navigating around this newsgroup (what a find!) and I'm reading a lot about this "F1rs." Seems like the greatest thing since sliced cheese...is it available here in the States? If so, can anyone point me in the right direction so I can pick up/order a copy like, yesterday? Thank you in advance, L.S.

It should be out soon in the stores, but if you want the U.K. version now, you can call 1-800-UBI-SOFT for a copy. Make sure you download the 1.05 patch. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

> It should be out soon in the stores It's my understanding (please correct me as required) that the previous versions are 3dfx only, and the US version will support more interfaces (or perhaps via a patch). Is any of this correct? - Matt

>>It's my understanding (please correct me as required) that >>the previous versions are 3dfx only, and the US >>version will support more interfaces (or perhaps via a >>patch). >>Is any of this correct? As stated the demos were 3dfx only. The current version is DIrect3D and will run on Direct3D cards. However, it seems to look cartoonish on cards other than 3dfx. At least that is what I get from the reports here, ie black outlines around trees. On my 3dfx card it looks darn close to photo realistic. Apparently the 3D sound patch is not simply for 3D sound cards. But mainly for the 3D sound card (I forget which one but I think it had a french name) it was optomized for. I believe it would not work on a Diamond 3D sound card. It should work on an Ensoniq PCI card which should do 3D sound. Anyone try this on an Ensoniq PCI? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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> On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:01:48 -0800, "Matthew V. Jessick" > >> It should be out soon in the stores > >It's my understanding (please correct me as required) that > >the previous versions are 3dfx only, and the US > >version will support more interfaces (or perhaps via a > >patch). > >Is any of this correct? > >- Matt > There are demos on the net that only support 3dfx.

My demo is running fine on a Viper 330, D3D only of course. The Viper has the Riva 128 chipset, and is certainly not 3dfx. Either the real game is much, much better than the demo or F1RS is an overhyped game (NOT simulation). Graphics look very nice, car dynamics are OK (demo does not allow tweaking), 'slow' grass is ludicrous, car spin-o-rama is poor. If a future patch fixes these problems the game will advance to the status of simulation. There are a lot of improvements over GP2 nonetheless. When is Ubisoft F1 98 coming along? The real F1 '98 season starts in one month. Keith. -- please remove _spam from e-mail address when replying

>Either the real game is much, much better than the demo or F1RS is an >overhyped game (NOT simulation). Graphics look very nice, car dynamics >are OK (demo does not allow tweaking), 'slow' grass is ludicrous, car >spin-o-rama is poor. If a future patch fixes these problems the game >will advance to the status of simulation. There are a lot of Please. The game is allready the best F1 simulator for the PC period. The slow grass isn't that big of a deal to me since I don't exactly go off anyway. The modeling of reduced traction after you go off the track is also one of F1RS's best features. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

I agree with you that F1RS is already the best F1 sim for a PC, period... others would argue. But for me the slow grass thing is more of a medium-to-big deal. I would like to see a fix included in a patch. I understand some think it is there to discourage cutting the course (probably is), but it seems to me 1) it's an unrealistic model of placing a wheel off the track, which I and apparently the real F1 drivers do too, occasionally, if I'm to believe what I see on TV, and 2), it seems to me the loss of traction, both while on the grass/dirt and the grass/dirt that sticks to the tires are enough of a discourgement. I think Ubisoft used the same model for grass/dirt as they used for the sand/gravel traps and they ought to fix it.

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>>Either the real game is much, much better than the demo or F1RS is an >>overhyped game (NOT simulation). Graphics look very nice, car dynamics >>are OK (demo does not allow tweaking), 'slow' grass is ludicrous, car >>spin-o-rama is poor. If a future patch fixes these problems the game >>will advance to the status of simulation. There are a lot of >Please. The game is allready the best F1 simulator for the PC >period. The slow grass isn't that big of a deal to me since I >don't exactly go off anyway. The modeling of reduced traction >after you go off the track is also one of F1RS's best features. >-- >Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >>improvements over GP2 nonetheless. When is Ubisoft F1 98 coming along? >>The real F1 '98 season starts in one month.

F1RS may currently be the best F1 sim available for home use anywhere, but this small design fault ('slow grass') detracts from the feel. I think if Ubi want to penalise the driver for hitting the green stuff they should model it more realistically- make it bumpy, and more likely to spin you around than slow you down like glue. Still, the sim's ace! :) -- Dave Bowers

>As stated the demos were 3dfx only. The current version is DIrect3D >and will run on Direct3D cards. However, it seems to look cartoonish >on cards other than 3dfx. At least that is what I get from the reports here, >ie black outlines around trees. On my 3dfx card it looks darn close to >photo realistic. well, Greg, my second-hand Monster 3D came in a few days ago and I immediately installed it and the final version of F1RS for the 3DFX. So I think I can finally comment on D3D v 3DFX and Voodoo vs. Riva at least insofar as F1RS is concerned. The 3DFX version is definitely superior in every way to the D3D version. the mirrors work without freezing up my machine, the graphics are less cartoony and don't have those black outlines around the trees, as you indicated. And the brief hesitations in frame rate that I occassionally got are gone. So definitely 3DFX is the way to go for F1RS. On the flip side, I STILL think the F1RS is kind of cartoony in its brightness/cleanness. Its hard to pinpoint, but its almost like there is just an infinite amount of light cast on everything so everything is just so dang cheerily bright, if you know what I mean. My more immediate issue with F1RS is what happens in very slow (i.e. mechanical grip) hairpin turns and why it is that I'll get low speed mid-corner push conditions rather than wheelspin. Not sure why. Working on this one. Randy

>My demo is running fine on a Viper 330, D3D only of course. The Viper >has the Riva 128 chipset, and is certainly not 3dfx. I have both the AGP Riva 128 board and the 3DFX, and 3DFX is SIGNIFICANTLY better looking on the latter, and the frame rate is more consistently smooth. (On the flip side, my D3D tests still show my Riva blowing away the 3DFX so I'm glad I have the Riva for D3D games and the 3DFX for Glide games). I haven't played the demo, only the full version, but I'd be surprised if your opinion changed much after the demo, and yes its a SIMULATION. (soap box warning: I get VERY tired of people throwing around the words "simulation" and "game" like they do "good" and "evil" in other contexts -- the transition from an arcade game to a full blown sim is not a light switch, its an analog meter. F1RS is at least 90% on the simulation side of the scale....calling it an "overhyped game" is going to be VERY hard for you to substantiate here. So the spinning and the grass are really your main reasons for saying this is just an "overhyped game" and not a "simulation"? Hm. Randy

If you are concerned about the "cheeriness/brightness" factor, then race in variable/rainy weather! It will get you depressed pretty quickly. -Dan P

>well, Greg, my second-hand Monster 3D came in a few days ago and I >immediately installed it and the final version of F1RS for the 3DFX. >So I think I can finally comment on D3D v 3DFX and Voodoo vs. Riva at >least insofar as F1RS is concerned. The 3DFX version is definitely >superior in every way to the D3D version. the mirrors work without Now you know why I have the "attitide" I do :-) As was mentioned in another post, the variable weather definately take away the brightness. Glad you appear to like it though. Maybe it is REAL. Are you saying it is impossible to push in a slow corner? If you crank the wheel too much it may be possible to push. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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> >As stated the demos were 3dfx only. The current version is DIrect3D > >and will run on Direct3D cards. However, it seems to look cartoonish > >on cards other than 3dfx. At least that is what I get from the reports here, > >ie black outlines around trees. On my 3dfx card it looks darn close to > >photo realistic. > well, Greg, my second-hand Monster 3D came in a few days ago and I > immediately installed it and the final version of F1RS for the 3DFX. > So I think I can finally comment on D3D v 3DFX and Voodoo vs. Riva at > least insofar as F1RS is concerned. The 3DFX version is definitely > superior in every way to the D3D version. the mirrors work without > freezing up my machine, the graphics are less cartoony and don't have > those black outlines around the trees, as you indicated. And the > brief hesitations in frame rate that I occassionally got are gone. So > definitely 3DFX is the way to go for F1RS. On the flip side, I STILL > think the F1RS is kind of cartoony in its brightness/cleanness. Its > hard to pinpoint, but its almost like there is just an infinite amount > of light cast on everything so everything is just so dang cheerily > bright, if you know what I mean. > My more immediate issue with F1RS is what happens in very slow (i.e. > mechanical grip) hairpin turns and why it is that I'll get low speed > mid-corner push conditions rather than wheelspin. Not sure why. > Working on this one. > Randy

Lower the spring rate value of the front suspension if you're getting a lot of push in mid-corner. RC

>Now you know why I have the "attitide" I do :-) Sure. As long as you're running Glide games, its super. But for D3D, my testing so far has shown me that I'm better off running those with the Riva board. The voodoo just isn't as good on my machine for D3D. But I have the best of both worlds (barring Voodoo 2 of course, whenever I decide to shell out that kind of money) yeah, the variable weather takes away a lot of things, mainly control :) I've found that with setup changes I can get the car more loose. This brings up an interesting physics issue though. Logically, if you're ALREADY going very slowly and you have mechanical but not aero grip, and you apply throttle, the sequence of events is that first the rear wheels turn, and they either spin because they break free of friction, or they grip and thus push the car forward. My sense is that with that much torque, a gentle throttle application probably won't do that much to generate a push, but anything more than gentle should NOT cause a push but rather wheelspin. (Think of it as trying to push your car on an icy surface...your feet go everywhere but the car stands still :) ). That's fundamentally my issue with push in low speed turns in F1RS -- it appears that there is an increasing speed understeer at low speeds, whereas I'd expect that if I accelerated strong enough to push the front tires against their will, the rears would spin first, whereas I can definitely understand push when you carry too much speed INTO the corner. Again, setup helps alter the handling here so none of this is absolute. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

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>I've found that with setup changes I can get the car more loose. This >brings up an interesting physics issue though. Logically, if you're >ALREADY going very slowly and you have mechanical but not aero grip, >and you apply throttle, the sequence of events is that first the rear >wheels turn, and they either spin because they break free of friction, >or they grip and thus push the car forward. My sense is that with >that much torque, a gentle throttle application probably won't do that >much to generate a push, but anything more than gentle should NOT >cause a push but rather wheelspin. (Think of it as trying to push

If I am too *** the throttle on slow turns I spin out/fishtail so I apparently don't have the exact same problem. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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>I've found that with setup changes I can get the car more loose. This >brings up an interesting physics issue though. Logically, if you're >ALREADY going very slowly and you have mechanical but not aero grip, >and you apply throttle, the sequence of events is that first the rear >wheels turn, and they either spin because they break free of friction, >or they grip and thus push the car forward. My sense is that with >that much torque, a gentle throttle application probably won't do that >much to generate a push, but anything more than gentle should NOT >cause a push but rather wheelspin. (Think of it as trying to push

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Shouldn't it be easy to get understeer in a low speed corner? When you accelerate (not to the point of spinning the wheels), the weight transfers to the rear tires. The front end gets light, and you get understeer. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

Slowing down in the grass if not that bad, you mentioned that Ubisoft should have modelled it that so that your car may go into a spin, that would be very unrealistic, in an F1 race you never see a car going into a sping if the driver lands up in the grass.

>I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Shouldn't it be easy to >get understeer in a low speed corner? When you accelerate (not to the point >of spinning the wheels), the weight transfers to the rear tires. The front >end gets light, and you get understeer. Yeah, you're right. But I get the feeling sometimes that the work involved in pushing the front tires against their will is too much for the tires to generate without breaking loose and getting wheelspin first, at least in a such a low gear/high revving F1 engine. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

>Slowing down in the grass if not that bad, you mentioned that Ubisoft should >have modelled it that so that your car may go into a spin, that would be very >unrealistic, in an F1 race you never see a car going into a sping if the >driver lands up in the grass. Slowing down in the grass should be modelled the way everything else is modelled...that is, if a front tire goes off you should be alright unless you generate a slip angle sufficient to lose grip or cause the wheel to slide. For a rear wheel, at low speeds under acceleration you should get wheelspin, but at higher speeds you should be able to roll right through it. Heck, think about the Indy 500 last year. At speeds exceeding 200 mph Tony Stewart forced Arie Luyendyk onto the infield grass (!!) and Arie drove through it without slowing down and without spinning, but consider that he was in 6th gear and the throttle wasn't creating high torque differentials at that point. So he could drive through it and ease the car out without losing much speed at all! Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:18:10 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >Please. The game is allready the best F1 simulator for the PC >period. The slow grass isn't that big of a deal to me since I >don't exactly go off anyway. The modeling of reduced traction >after you go off the track is also one of F1RS's best features. The reduced traction is a good feature, but the stick grass is certainly a bigger deal for me - I hated this in SODA too. Why not do it properly and model the grip loss at the tyre which goes off-track, rather than slowing down the whole car? Think about it, if you put your right front onto the grass and it gets slowed down, your left front should still be doing the same = spin. It doesn't, which means that when you put one or two tyres off the road F1RS is slowing your whole car down. I dislike that, and would rather be able to take the risk and have to deal with the consequences. It's a detail, and provided you stay wholly on the track it's not one that will come into play, but it's an annoyance. Cheers! John