f1rs locks-up

hi, i have a matrox mystique 4mb and pure3d, i have all the recent drivers installed, and the new 105 patch for f1rs but it still locks up in the game after about 2-3 laps any answers? thanks

Same problems here. Its not consistant though. May happen 2-3 times in a row and then not happen for a while. I have 233 PII with 64mb and Diamond V330 video card. I am also running patch 105.

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>hi, >i have a matrox mystique 4mb and pure3d, i have all the recent drivers >installed, and the new 105 patch for f1rs but it still locks up in the game >after about 2-3 laps >any answers? >thanks

I have the same problems too. My 3dfx card is some Tiawanese Monster clone, which I thought was causing the problem, but maybe it isnt. My computer is a P200-MMX with 48mb, but my game isnt patched atm. I also got the impression that the problem was perhaps something to do with Windows 95 gradually losing memory, or something, as the game runs; the game eventually locking up when there is no more memory left to run it. If anyone can verify the the above theory, and perhaps suggest a cure I'd be over the moon. Cheers... -- Dave Bowers

I have a Matrox Mystique 2 MB and Pure3D and don't have any lockup problems, but I heard that the lockup problems can be solved by putting the Matrox card and Pure3D card in certain PCI slots. I don't remember exactly which slots to put them in. I read this at a Web site. I believe you should try putting one of them in slot 1 and the other in slot 4. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email) >>Same problems here. Its not consistant though. May happen 2-3 times in a row >>and then not happen for a while. >>I have 233 PII with 64mb and Diamond V330 video card. I am also running >>patch 105. >I have the same problems too. My 3dfx card is some Tiawanese Monster >clone, which I thought was causing the problem, but maybe it isnt. My >computer is a P200-MMX with 48mb, but my game isnt patched atm. >I also got the impression that the problem was perhaps something to do >with Windows 95 gradually losing memory, or something, as the game runs; >the game eventually locking up when there is no more memory left to run >it. >If anyone can verify the the above theory, and perhaps suggest a cure >I'd be over the moon. >Cheers... >-- >Dave Bowers

>If anyone can verify the the above theory, and perhaps suggest a cure >I'd be over the moon. What kind of swap file do you guys have setup? How much free space do you have? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

After reading so many posts about F1 and all the problems it has with lock ups and other bugs, it looks like Ubi Soft never learned it's lessons with POD. The same things happened with that game too. F1 was built using the POD engine so I guess this isn't a surprise. It's not your systems guys, it's the sim. Dave

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>hi, >i have a matrox mystique 4mb and pure3d, i have all the recent drivers >installed, and the new 105 patch for f1rs but it still locks up in the game >after about 2-3 laps >any answers? >thanks

Sure. I guess that explains why I have had a total of ZERO lockups then, huh. I have run 25% races at all the tracks and spent almost 100 hours driving within the game. Not one single lockup. I suspect your system actually. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Yeah, it obviously can't be a problem with the sim that I'm experiencing... it locks up after 1-5 laps. If it did that to everybody, Ubisoft wouldn't have been allowed to release the product! -- Dave Bowers

Beginning last April, I spent far more than 100 hours with POD, heard all the complaints about lock ups, black screen, patches, etc., and experienced them myself. They were a part of the game for everybody. Even though I loved the game, it drove me completely crazy with it's bugs. These things occurred on a, at the time, high end, brand new P200mmx computer. Now I read the exact same complaints on here and at F1 web sites. I'm glad you don't have any problems. I don't have any with CPR either. Runs perfectly for me but not for others. The fact is, the complaints about F1 are EXACTLY the same as the ones for POD. Exactly. So my point is that whatever bugs were in POD (and there were a ton, even their web site where you downloaded tracks had them) were definitely not eliminated, at least not completely, with F1. Lock ups are the worst and most annoying bug a game can have. These problems were not system related and Ubi Soft employees never tried to say they were. By the way, I do like F1 a lot but it's problems are old and familiar and very hard to defend. Dave >Sure. I guess that explains why I have had a total of ZERO lockups >then, huh. I have run 25% races at all the tracks and spent almost 100 >hours driving within the game. Not one single lockup. I suspect your >system actually.

>Yeah, it obviously can't be a problem with the sim that I'm >experiencing... it locks up after 1-5 laps. If it did that to everybody, >Ubisoft wouldn't have been allowed to release the product! How many laps was that race at Monaco that you lost in the rain? -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Have you tried disabling your soundcard? Like removing the soundcard? I would think it *HAS* to be something like this. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> I also got the impression that the problem was perhaps something to do > with Windows 95 gradually losing memory, or something, as the game > runs; the game eventually locking up when there is no more memory left > to run it. My pc did lock up after some hours use of F1RS and just sliding the cover back to give more cooler air to the 3dfx card worked a treat...no more lockups. Mike. -- 22:40 on 02/16/98 From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK. mailable also at remove NO-SPAM to mail me.

To be slightly more correct, it *IS* the system, or something with the system, when running F1RS. If it were simply the program itself then it wouldn't work on *any* system. > It's not your systems guys, it's > the sim. Bruce. (At home)

Shortest possible... 7 is it? Think I crashed on lap 7 too :( btw. Sometimes I can finish a race on the lowest race length setting, but then it always crashes during the classification... -- Dave Bowers

writes Ok, looks like its something to do with the card overheating. I'm about to go to bed tonight, but I'll try getting some cool air to the card tomorrow. Thanks a lot for your help guys, much appreciated! -- Dave Bowers

Bullshit...plain and simple. The software is solid. My old 166 NEVER locks up...not once with F1 Racing sim. Of course it helps to pay attention....the same thing happened with Longbow...with many not reading the manual or not knowing how to configure and use Win95 to run games then complaining about the sim they were wrong about Longbow and you are wrong about F1. Also a big problem was mis indentifying drivers....big problem. I DO have the newest drivers, all 3dfx Reference drivers (THOSE are the newest) I have direct X5.0 with the Direct play update installed and I have them installed in the correct ORDER (big deal that is)...I have a 250mb permenent swapfile and I dont ever get lockups. Pierre PS This is NOT meant as a slam to those asking for help but to this person identified below. Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

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>writes >>My pc did lock up after some hours use of F1RS and just sliding the >>cover back to give more cooler air to the 3dfx card worked a treat...no >>more lockups. >Ok, looks like its something to do with the card overheating. I'm about >to go to bed tonight, but I'll try getting some cool air to the card >tomorrow. Thanks a lot for your help guys, much appreciated!

And it is reasons such as this which is why we blame the system not the game. Who knows what you guys have going iwth your PC's. For all I know you guys are overclocking the ***out of your CPU or 3dfx card. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:48:28 -0500, "DAVID G FISHER" >After reading so many posts about F1 and all the problems it has with lock >ups and other bugs, it looks like Ubi Soft never learned it's lessons with >POD. The same things happened with that game too. F1 was built using the POD >engine so I guess this isn't a surprise. It's not your systems guys, it's >the sim. Gee, we in Australia are damned lucky Neither POD nor F1RS locks up EVER on my system I wonder if I am only 1 out of 5000 people who have bought the game in Australia alone who have managed to survive without a lockup?

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> Bullshit...plain and simple. The software is solid. My old 166 NEVER > locks up...not once with F1 Racing sim. Of course it helps to pay > attention....the same thing happened with Longbow...with many not > reading the manual or not knowing how to configure and use Win95 to > run games then complaining about the sim they were wrong about Longbow > and you are wrong about F1. Also a big problem was mis indentifying > drivers....big problem. > I DO have the newest drivers, all 3dfx Reference drivers (THOSE are > the newest) I have direct X5.0 with the Direct play update installed > and I have them installed in the correct ORDER (big deal that is)...I > have a 250mb permenent swapfile and I dont ever get lockups.

Ok, just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you... what is the correct order for driver installation?? (I'm currently having problems with F1RS (P166->225MMX,Mystique,Pure3d), and I am pretty sure it is some misconfiguration of my drivers) ...Andrew

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> Pierre > PS This is NOT meant as a slam to those asking for help but to this > person identified below. > >After reading so many posts about F1 and all the problems it has with lock > >ups and other bugs, it looks like Ubi Soft never learned it's lessons with > >POD. The same things happened with that game too. F1 was built using the POD > >engine so I guess this isn't a surprise. It's not your systems guys, it's > >the sim. > >Dave > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Infamous > Pink Flamingo Pilot...

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>Bullshit...plain and simple. The software is solid. My old 166 NEVER >locks up...not once with F1 Racing sim. Of course it helps to pay >attention....the same thing happened with Longbow...with many not >reading the manual or not knowing how to configure and use Win95 to >run games then complaining about the sim they were wrong about Longbow >and you are wrong about F1. Also a big problem was mis indentifying >drivers....big problem. >I DO have the newest drivers, all 3dfx Reference drivers (THOSE are >the newest) I have direct X5.0 with the Direct play update installed >and I have them installed in the correct ORDER (big deal that is)...I >have a 250mb permenent swapfile and I dont ever get lockups. >Pierre >PS This is NOT meant as a slam to those asking for help but to this >person identified below.

{ BTW, it would be useful to actually identify quoted text by including their email address or name. For the record, it was On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:48:28 -0500, "DAVID G FISHER" )

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>>After reading so many posts about F1 and all the problems it has with lock >>ups and other bugs, it looks like Ubi Soft never learned it's lessons with >>POD. The same things happened with that game too. F1 was built using the POD >>engine so I guess this isn't a surprise. It's not your systems guys, it's >>the sim. >>Dave >Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand >Infamous >Pink Flamingo Pilot...

(a general response to everyone that simply says: "it runs great on my system so problems must be the fault of your system") It does little good to say that problems that people experience with certain software is due to system driver or hardware incompatibilities. While it is always a case of incompatibility between the software application and the drivers or between the drivers and the hardware, there are so many variables involved in getting the software to work on so many different configurations that it is a rare case that complex software works perfectly on any system This is especially true for games which use every bit of sound, video, cpu and input devices simultaneously . Many of the people that have problems with some software have more than adequate hardware and software technical skills to configure their system correctly and check for the most recent drivers etc. While I have not had any lockups with F1RS during racing (except for the 1st week occasionally which was due to a soundcard protection fault and solved by using the WAVPW setting), I know that there are many bugs still in F1RS (even with the 1.05 patch). I've had the black sky happen once. I get frequent protection faults when selecting a replay. Also get them frequently when using the telemetry panel to save laps to file . Fortunately, in this case, other people such as Rene Smit can write excellent add-ons such as his PerfView (even more remarkable to do this without the aid of a documented structure of the data files). Then there are the more subtle bugs that are in the gray area between being blatantly erroneous or inconsistent and being design flaws. So, while I continue to enjoy racing with F1RS, I would not ever say that any software that I use is completely bug free even if it works perfectly on my system. Anyone saying differently is just plain naive, ignorant or unable to face reality. Bugs in complex software is just a fact of life. My choice is to look at what works and to use that if it is possible. Is the cup half full or half empty, etc. DS

I totally agree with all of your comments. These sims (CPR, and F1) are so amazing to me that I expect and am willing to work through any problems which arise. You mention the bugs you have encountered and, like I said, they are the same ones which were in POD. My only criticism was that you would think that these would, and should have, been eliminated with this sim. If there are new bugs with F1, that really doesn't bother me. I just think that problems that are known of for so long by a manufacturer should be corrected. One thing I find amusing is that the people who jumped all over my fairly soft criticisims of the F1 software are the same ones who criticized the CPR software. They attacked it because it didn't run well on THEIR SYSTEM!! The problems were all in the CPR software and anyone who had (still has) CPR running perfectly on their system was shouted down. Now they have the opposite stance. On this newsgroup, it seems that people form an allegiance to a sim, defend it religiously, and then attack anyone else who has a different opinion. Kind of reminds me of a bunch of drunken losers arguing about who has the better football team and what quarterback "sucks" or is "great". Dave

Yeah, it turns out it was the card overheating. I haven't overclocked anything on my system though, I guess its just the design of the case or something. Anyway, I put a fan on it, and I can enjoy the fantastic glory of F1RS now. And it's great :) Thanks to all who helped, you made my year :) -- Dave Bowers

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> Ok, just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you... > what is the correct order for driver installation?? > (I'm currently having problems with F1RS (P166->225MMX,Mystique,Pure3d), > and I am pretty sure it is some misconfiguration of my drivers) > ...Andrew

Another thing to note - you need to have at *least* 50MB of free space on the HDD where F1RS is stored, and I would recommend at least 100MB. It apparently uses it to decompress the graphics & store the replay. -- Rob

First off are you overclocking the card..? If so how hot is it getting...are you cooling it? If not and your overclocking the Voodoo you should look into sometype of cooling setup. Also how hot is your CPU getting with the overclocking and what are you doing to correct the situation. 1. Direct X w/update 2. Voodoo reference Direct X drivers (from 3dfx site) 3. Glide reference drivers from 3dfx site. But I bet your problem is heat.....sure sounds like it. Or just plain instability of the overclocking of the CPU. Cooling will help that situation alot. PAPA DOC

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>Ok, just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you... >what is the correct order for driver installation?? >(I'm currently having problems with F1RS (P166->225MMX,Mystique,Pure3d), > and I am pretty sure it is some misconfiguration of my drivers) >...Andrew

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

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> > Ok, just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you... > > what is the correct order for driver installation?? > > (I'm currently having problems with F1RS (P166->225MMX,Mystique,Pure3d), > > and I am pretty sure it is some misconfiguration of my drivers) > > ...Andrew > Another thing to note - you need to have at *least* 50MB of free space on > the HDD where F1RS is stored, and I would recommend at least 100MB. It > apparently uses it to decompress the graphics & store the replay.

Good point - I'll check that. As far as replay goes, I have that turned off. > Rob

> First off are you overclocking the card..? If so how hot is it > getting...are you cooling it? If not and your overclocking the Voodoo > you should look into sometype of cooling setup. No, not overclocking the Voodoo (yet). Have fan on CPU (obviously) with some heatsink compound, plus a largesecondary fan blowing across the motherboard (which btw is an ASUS P55T2P4) This CPU has been run extensively at 250Mhz (83x3) with no apparent problems. For the purposes of investigating this problem, I've dropped it down to 75x3. I used to have a Monster 3D and at 83x3 I did not have this problem *at all*. So while I agree it is possible, I don't think my problem is heat. Actually, I did some more poking around last night, cleaning up old registry entries and re-installing drivers (In what I think is the right order). I'm starting to think the problem is my cheapo ESS1869 AudioDrive sound card. A lot of the crashes that occur have WAVPW and/or ES1869 in the illegal operation window that comes up when the game crashes. Also, the intro movie is jerky when the sound is playing, but perfectly smooth if sound is turned off. Also, I have a Matrox Mystique video card, so I wonder if I am suffering from the PCI slot Pure3D<->Mystique problem.... I'll eventually figure it out, I'm sure. Frustrating, though. Btw, no problems at all running Direct3D games or benchmarks.

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> PAPA DOC > >Ok, just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you... > >what is the correct order for driver installation?? > >(I'm currently having problems with F1RS (P166->225MMX,Mystique,Pure3d), > > and I am pretty sure it is some misconfiguration of my drivers) > >...Andrew > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Infamous > Pink Flamingo Pilot...

Great point...I have a permanent 250mb swapfile going and I think that helps alot. PAPA DOC

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>> Another thing to note - you need to have at *least* 50MB of free space on >> the HDD where F1RS is stored, and I would recommend at least 100MB. It >> apparently uses it to decompress the graphics & store the replay. >Good point - I'll check that. As far as replay goes, I have that turned >off. >> -- >> Rob

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

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>Actually, I did some more poking around last night, cleaning up >old registry entries and re-installing drivers (In what I think is the >right order). I'm starting to think the problem is my cheapo >ESS1869 AudioDrive sound card. A lot of the crashes that occur >have WAVPW and/or ES1869 in the illegal operation window >that comes up when the game crashes. Also, the intro movie is >jerky when the sound is playing, but perfectly smooth if sound is >turned off.

Your soundcard could very easily be the culprit. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> Great point...I have a permanent 250mb swapfile going and I think that > helps alot. Ah, but he is not talking about swap space here.... he seems to be talking about non-swap space on the drive where the game is installed.... or am I reading it wrong? ...Andrew

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> PAPA DOC > >> Another thing to note - you need to have at *least* 50MB of free space on > >> the HDD where F1RS is stored, and I would recommend at least 100MB. It > >> apparently uses it to decompress the graphics & store the replay. > >Good point - I'll check that. As far as replay goes, I have that turned > >off. > >> -- > >> Rob > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Infamous > Pink Flamingo Pilot...

oooh yea missed that another good point... PAPA DOC

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>Ah, but he is not talking about swap space here.... he seems to be talking >about non-swap >space on the drive where the game is installed.... or am I reading it wrong? >...Andrew >> PAPA DOC >> >> Another thing to note - you need to have at *least* 50MB of free space on >> >> the HDD where F1RS is stored, and I would recommend at least 100MB. It >> >> apparently uses it to decompress the graphics & store the replay. >> >Good point - I'll check that. As far as replay goes, I have that turned >> >off. >> >> -- >> >> Rob >> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand >> Infamous >> Pink Flamingo Pilot...

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

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> > Great point...I have a permanent 250mb swapfile going and I think that > > helps alot. > Ah, but he is not talking about swap space here.... he seems to be talking > about non-swap > space on the drive where the game is installed.... or am I reading it wrong? > ...Andrew

You are correct. This is on the drive with the game and is totally separate from the swap file. A friend installed it on a drive and there was only 30MB free after install. When going into the race, it would *** out. freed up 70MB more on the HDD (total=100) and everything worked great without making any other adjustments. -- Rob