A kind word about CPR & a question

Well I play with damage on mostly, but turn it off when learning a enw track. Smoking the AI in the ovals is just no fun and this evens it all out. My question is the 'steering' problems you mentioned what would they be? I have been tweaking the two steering options and cant seem to come up with the right one so if you've any advice here I would love to hear it I use the TM GP1 I must say I really like this game, has me totally hooked. I didn't read anything in this group unitl yesterday in search of steering answers, so I am miffd at the complaints, it aint perfect but its better than most if not all Formula sims I've played. edk

To CPR drivers: Anyone do much driving with damage ON? The reason I ask is that I've developed what I think is a good setup at Nazareth. It lets me crank out 19.5-20.5 second laps in race trim with full tanks. Using it, I can quickly jump out ahead of the field on raceday. In fact, there's no reason I shouldn't lap the slower AI several times before the race is done. But I'm not. The reason is that I keep pushing too hard and tapping the outside wall, doing all kinds of damage. Of course, I could turn damage off and proceed to torch the AI, but that's hardly realistic. And it isn't CPR's 'steering problems' that are putting me into the wall. I know the enemy and it is me :). I'm just too aggressive coming off the corners and even if I hold it together for a good 5 or 6 laps...sooner or later...TAP-smash-wheel+wing gone. None of these are the fault of the AI (which is doing a great job of avoiding me, even when I'm bouncing off of walls), but I'm just curious as to whether others are doing well on ovals with damage on. The "kind word" I spoke of regarding CPR is that I find that its rather fun even to lap around during practice sessions at Nazareth, because the AI does a great job of holding its line, and working through traffic is challenging and fun and everything ICR2 was and more in that regard. Cheers, Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

Hi Randy, I wonder if you have finally touched on the reason I love this sim. I always drive in Pro mode with damage on. In fact this is my one complaint about the Zone. I go there and inevitably I tend to get smoked by folks running Intermediate and Rookie. I guess it has to do with the fact that they can run traction control and stay on track option. Now thats cool and yes I can also but, I always practice the other way so....... even if I did turn on these aids my ways have kinda been set if you know what I mean. I already am driving a certain way its hard to force yourself to be reckless once you have been practicing with damage on and the lesser grip of Pro settings. To top it off I feel bad to ask others to change or race Pro as it seems somewhat conceited sounding :-) As I dont consider myself a Pro by any means. I am stoked that the new Cart-orl league is starting with Pro only settings this will be good. But as to your post this is why I always wondered when folks wrote in slamming CPR saying stuff like " Ya bounce off the walls bang stuff out of the way how easy" well duh who was driving? I think if folks gave this sim half a real try at a realistic setting they just might have their hands full. BTW I wish you would post your Australia tutorial as it helped me get from 1:38 down to 1:33.75 . On second thought dont post that :-) Glad to see others enjoying this sim! Aloha, Mike

>Well I play with damage on mostly, but turn it off when learning a enw >track. Smoking the AI in the ovals is just no fun and this evens it all >out. Yup, when you know that touching anything is likely to damage your car and***up your race it sure brings the adrenalin factor into play. Another note is that while a lot of the AI critics claim that when they hit you they just plow you aside, its also fair to note that when you turn on damage this problem disappears because they get the *** knocked out of 'em too! Many people believe that even after the patch the control is not precise. The problem is, as I see it, that a lot of people are trying to fix all their handling/steering problems with the control sliders rather than the setups. The fact is, the setups are just screwed under Build 90 (the patch). The taking away of rear-end grip just messed up the setups so bad that you can hardly apply throttle without spinning the car, and so when you're trying to turn a corner or add throttle the car just breaks into oversteer. I usually turn up the null zone one click, and set both speed-sensitive and non-linear at between 40-60% and then work on the setup. After the setup is stabilized, I might touch the control sliders again. Look out! Incoming! Seriously, there are people here who attack your intelligence if you have the wherewithall to actually like this sim. (and yes, its a sim, flaws and all). I'm having a lot of fun with it, too. I am, however, very frustrated at the following problems with this title: 1) No full course cautions, particularly on ovals. 2) Overkill on removing rear-end grip at high speeds 3) Setups not re-calibrated for balance with the new grip level 4) Deliberately sabotaged track accuracy (done to prevent shortcutting chicanes since no black flags or underbody damage model done etc) 5) No tire temperatures 6) No plank wear indicators. 7) Slow AI on ovals 8) Missing telemetry items. 9) Brake pedal travel problems. That oughtta do it for the big ones :) In spite of these nagging problems, there's still quite a lot of fun to be had in racing the AI cars or online opponents, and once the grip (or lack thereof) is dealt with in the garage and on the track, its every bit as fun as ICR2 was. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage [link lost in import]

There is a very important point here. When people complain that the AI isn't very good with this sim (or others) because they can beat the AI too easily, they, I'm sure, are driving with damage off. That makes it easy to be brave and take chances because, obviously, there is no penalty for mistakes. Putting the damage on is a totally different race. Actually, it's the way we should always be driving whether it's hot lapping or qualifying. Fear of an accident will effect times as much as anything else in the sim. I have a feeling that many of the fast laps people get are with damage turned off. Unfortunately, it's not really a good idea with internet racing because of the warping but maybe in the near future. I've been doing it a lot more lately and I wonder if you find yourself much more tense and a little nervous during the race like I am? David G Fisher

says... Racing with damage on makes all the difference in the world, IMO, especially the *mental* part of the game. Last year, I ran a full season in GP2 with not only damage on, but a personal commitment to ONLY start each race ONCE (i.e. no do-overs). I can tell you that my palms would sweat and my heart would pound during those "do-or-die" races. It adds to the thrill factor immensely. Ed

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>True. What's more the "X" key is there so if you DO feel that the AI >was totally to blame for an accident you can tap X twice to repair and >go on, while re-activating damage so you are still vulnerable for >futuer incidents. Of course, the temptation is to use the X key too >much, and MS must have thought of that because I noticed that if >damage generates a push condition, pressing X to repair does NOT fix >the push condition!

I think this is a bug. I don't think your front wing gets repaired by hitting 'X' twice. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

The damage is the great equlizer in this game, to bad you have to wait untill you start laping the feild before it comes into play (only then it is tough, and just because it is hard to thread your way through a bunch of cars going a 20 to 50 mph slower then you are) Great game, great AI huh. Denny M

The same thing goes for N2, especially on the short tracks! I also find that Atlanta is hard to run with damage because you are driving so close to the other cars on those long corners. (1 tap and you're in the wall!). With the BGN Expansion pack, I've been finding IRP sort of tricky, (a little like Darlington with the narrow groove in the corners). There is quite a bit of race track, but so little you can go race well on! Later, J0ohn 0

True. What's more the "X" key is there so if you DO feel that the AI was totally to blame for an accident you can tap X twice to repair and go on, while re-activating damage so you are still vulnerable for futuer incidents. Of course, the temptation is to use the X key too much, and MS must have thought of that because I noticed that if damage generates a push condition, pressing X to repair does NOT fix the push condition! With damage on..absolutely. I partially blame the limited wheel-vision, though. Its hard to tell with head-panning how close you are to wall exiting turns because it doesn't look out to the apex properly, yet with head panning off it still doesn't show enough width to help you precisely place the front wheels. Its more of a 'feel' that you develop...almost a sixth sense. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

> I think if folks gave this sim half a real try at a realistic >setting they just might have their hands full. BTW I wish you would post >your Australia tutorial as it helped me get from 1:38 down to 1:33.75 . On >second thought dont post that :-) Glad to see others enjoying this sim! >Aloha, Mike Glad to hear the tutorial helped. Actually someone has already uploaded a faster setup/time onto the Apex than mine, so its back to the drawing board! Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

Not quite sure what you mean by this but............. Are you saying for instance that on Pro settings with no aids on and Damage ON you always qualify pole? because thats the only way this statement makes ant sense. Even then if say at Australia in Pro +Damage on you are so fast as to not only qualify Pole but also you say you Lap the field? >(only then it is And now that you qualified with Pro settings + damage on Pole your saying your lapping the field? And find their 20 to 50 mph slower than you??? Wow Dude your some kind of speed demon is all I can say. Sincerely Wondering, Mike

If you are in pro or immediate with the cars skill set at 999 in the system.ini, they will not be 20-50mph slower than yourself. Dave Fisher

At Mis, Fontana I can always qualify on the pole in the pro mode the and then never see another car untill I come around to start lapping the feild. Oh yea I forgot to this is with the sample setups supplied with the game, just some minor tweaks of the steering. Denny M P.S. I have patched the game with build 90.

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>> The damage is the great equlizer in this game, to bad you have to wait >> untill you start laping the feild before it comes into play >Not quite sure what you mean by this but............. >Are you saying for instance that on Pro settings with no aids on and >Damage ON you always qualify pole? because thats the only way this >statement makes ant sense. >Even then if say at Australia in Pro +Damage on you are so fast as to not >only qualify Pole but also you say you Lap the field? > >(only then it is >> tough, and just because it is hard to thread your way through a bunch of >> cars going a 20 to 50 mph slower then you are) Great game, great AI huh. >And now that you qualified with Pro settings + damage on Pole your saying >your lapping the field? >And find their 20 to 50 mph slower than you??? >Wow Dude your some kind of speed demon is all I can say. >Sincerely Wondering, Mike

Like I said Denny you must be pretty quick ;-) When I race at Fontana and if I do a low 30 or high 29 sec. lap I can get pole. But in Qualify list I see 6 had 30.- sec laps 4 had 31 sec+ laps 1 at 32 sec and poor Max Pappis did a 40 So even if I do well and this is Pro "with " Damage on right? I dont lap the field. I agree with you though as it has been said before Ovals are not too hot in CPR. Perhaps you would like a road course. Or in the FAQ it also tells you how to increase the AIs abilities. Mike

P.S. has anyone else here who uses CPR been able to lap the whole field in the 15 lap race at Fontana? with Pro mode and Damage on? I am just curious. I was thinking if these other 6 AIs in this race I listed below are doing 30+ sec. laps hmmm. In a 15 lap race does that then mean I have to do 15 laps at 28- seconds each? I better practice more ;-) Mike

>The damage is the great equlizer in this game, to bad you have to wait >untill you start laping the feild before it comes into play (only then it is >tough, and just because it is hard to thread your way through a bunch of >cars going a 20 to 50 mph slower then you are) Great game, great AI huh. I disagree with you here. First of all, if you're racing a longer race, you'll probably have to switch to harder tires, or you're going to find your tires going off as you burn up the track. Secondly, its remarkably easy on ovals to push up into a wall if you get too aggressive exiting (and that's not hard to do when you're working hard on either building a lead or getting through traffic). I'm not excusing the AI slowness or speed limits in the game, but I would say that its challenging regardless to keep off the wall when your tires are fading, regardless of the AI cars. Randy

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>Denny M >>There is a very important point here. When people complain that the AI >isn't >>very good with this sim (or others) because they can beat the AI too >easily, >>they, I'm sure, are driving with damage off. That makes it easy to be brave >>and take chances because, obviously, there is no penalty for mistakes. >>Putting the damage on is a totally different race. Actually, it's the way >we >>should always be driving whether it's hot lapping or qualifying. Fear of an >>accident will effect times as much as anything else in the sim. I have a >>feeling that many of the fast laps people get are with damage turned off. >>Unfortunately, it's not really a good idea with internet racing because of >>the warping but maybe in the near future. I've been doing it a lot more >>lately and I wonder if you find yourself much more tense and a little >>nervous during the race like I am? >>David G Fisher

Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

>Look out! Incoming! Seriously, there are people here who attack your >intelligence if you have the wherewithall to actually like this sim. I just couldn't resist this :-) I think what you say is very true if you make CPR the Motorsports game of the year. Or give the game 5 stars or something like that. I don't think many would give you problems for simply liking the game and having fun with it. And judging from your points below describing the problems I would say that we are in agreement here. I just wanted to say that I certainly wouldn't flame anyone for simply liking or having fun with the game. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>Well I play with damage on mostly, but turn it off when learning a enw >track. Smoking the AI in the ovals is just no fun and this evens it all >out. Yup, when you know that touching anything is likely to damage your car and***up your race it sure brings the adrenalin factor into play. Another note is that while a lot of the AI critics claim that when they hit you they just plow you aside, its also fair to note that when you turn on damage this problem disappears because they get the *** knocked out of 'em too! Many people believe that even after the patch the control is not precise. The problem is, as I see it, that a lot of people are trying to fix all their handling/steering problems with the control sliders rather than the setups. The fact is, the setups are just screwed under Build 90 (the patch). The taking away of rear-end grip just messed up the setups so bad that you can hardly apply throttle without spinning the car, and so when you're trying to turn a corner or add throttle the car just breaks into oversteer. I usually turn up the null zone one click, and set both speed-sensitive and non-linear at between 40-60% and then work on the setup. After the setup is stabilized, I might touch the control sliders again. Look out! Incoming! Seriously, there are people here who attack your intelligence if you have the wherewithall to actually like this sim. (and yes, its a sim, flaws and all). I'm having a lot of fun with it, too. I am, however, very frustrated at the following problems with this title: 1) No full course cautions, particularly on ovals. 2) Overkill on removing rear-end grip at high speeds 3) Setups not re-calibrated for balance with the new grip level 4) Deliberately sabotaged track accuracy (done to prevent shortcutting chicanes since no black flags or underbody damage model done etc) 5) No tire temperatures 6) No plank wear indicators. 7) Slow AI on ovals 8) Missing telemetry items. 9) Brake pedal travel problems. That oughtta do it for the big ones :) In spite of these nagging problems, there's still quite a lot of fun to be had in racing the AI cars or online opponents, and once the grip (or lack thereof) is dealt with in the garage and on the track, its every bit as fun as ICR2 was. Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage [link lost in import]

>I just couldn't resist this :-) I think what you say is very true if you >make CPR the Motorsports game of the year. Well, remember not to treat users here like they are CGW reviewers. Again, it would be wrong to assume that someone who likes the game is on the same footing as the CGW reviewer. They would if you dared call it a "sim" (which I do--I think the word 'sim' has taken on an almost religious meaning, far beyond its actual meaning). Randy Randy Magruder Contributing Reviewer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com

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> >Look out! Incoming! Seriously, there are people here who attack your > >intelligence if you have the wherewithall to actually like this sim. > I just couldn't resist this :-) I think what you say is very true if you > make CPR the Motorsports game of the year. Or give the game > 5 stars or something like that. I don't think many would give you > problems for simply liking the game and having fun with it.

Hehe we think alike Greg as I cant resist a lil humor too. So ...... as long as nobody gives that inaccurate F1rs 5 stars I would never give it any heat if folks that didn't care about accuracy in a F1 sim were oh simply liking the game and having fun with it :-) Before you start Typing smile I am just having fun with you:-) I actually look forward to V2 on the 20th I hope to retry some of the 3dfx specific games and sims that I might not have seen at their best on my non 3dfx card. I also agree with the points Randy made and really hope it all gets fixed. Cya, Mike > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.