Grand Prix Legends - Spa-Francorchamps included!

This will sort out the men from the boys, If you know what I mean. :-) Scott Cummings

It's really difficult to put into words, but GPL is so much different than anything I've ever raced. Unfortunately I didn't get to spend much time racing it, and as a result my performance was far from stellar (I'm sure Mike L. would have a less flattering description of my driving). Like SODA, it's not the kind of thing you can just jump right into and expect to do well. It will take a lot of time, patience, and (for some) a completely new approach to driving. That may turn some people off, but for those who are serious about it, the payoff is well worth the effort. I thoroughly enjoyed my short time with GPL, but I've never had as much fun as I did watching the Papy guys take the car to (and sometimes beyond) its limits of control. -- Eric T. Busch http://ebusch.akorn.net >So if you think SODA is hard to drive now, wait until GPL!

So if you think SODA is hard to drive now, wait until GPL! John

(snip) It will take a lot of time, patience, and (for some) a completely new approach to driving. (unsnip) Precisely one of the reasons that I look forward to this racing simulation more than any other during my time on computers. That, and the fact that, as an "oldie", I relate to this era like no other! :-) -- Bruce (at work) "Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired." (Jules Renard)

>Will the high banked version of Monza be included as well? Well, even if we would all like it, Papyrus don't have plans to create the high-banked track in GP-Legends. Not that they are not able, it's mostly because this track was never used in Formula 1 during the 1967 season, and It was AFAIK never used in F1. This track served for races as the 1000miles of Monza, etc... You can see the GPL Monza track by downloading the first AVI Papyrus send to us. It's very well done ! * Fran?ois Mnard * With great respect, * May the downforce be with you, * Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) * <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by * http://www.awpss.com/ * SimRacing director, AWPSS * Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. * Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) * Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g> begin 666 ymenard.vcf M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"DXZ3>EN87)D.T9R86[G;VES.TXN#0I&3CIY;65N87)D M3#M#14Q,.U9/24-%.DXO00T*5$5,.TA/344[1D%8.DXO00T*0412.TA/344Z M.SLQ,30V.2!/=FED92U#;&5R;6]N=#M-;VYT<F5A;"U.;W)D.U%U96)E8SM( M3E1!0DQ%.C$Q-#8Y($]V:61E+4-L97)M;VYT/3!$/3!!36]N=')E86PM3F]R M+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"E523#IH='1P.B\O=W=W+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"D5-04E, M.U!2148[24Y415).150Z>6UE;F%R9$!A=W!S<RYC;VT-"D5.1#I60T%21 T* ` end

The Curva Sud Alta Velocita (the banked turn) was used in GP races from 1955-56 and again in 1960 and '61 -- and also, anachronistically, in the filming of the movie "Grand Prix".

Will the high banked version of Monza be included as well? Brandon Number 6 Every Other Man Productions Reed Racing & Enginering http://www.***highway.net/~blreed "Be king in your dreams." - Andrew Carnegie

I hope not because the high banking was certainly not used for some years prior to the period being modelled by Papyrus. The last F1 cars to run on that banking were the 1.5 litre machines. -- Bruce (at work) "Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired." (Jules Renard)

Thanks, I didn't know this. I'm only now learning the history of F1, and my only impression of Monza from that era had been from "Grand Prix". Thanks again. Brandon On Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:04:15 +1100, Bruce Kennewell

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>I hope not because the high banking was certainly not used for some >years prior to the period being modelled by Papyrus. The last F1 cars >to run on that banking were the 1.5 litre machines. >-- >Bruce >(at work) >"Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get >tired." >(Jules Renard)

Number 6 Every Other Man Productions Reed Racing & Enginering http://www.***highway.net/~blreed "Be king in your dreams." - Andrew Carnegie

The 10km combination of road and banked circuit WAS certainly used in F1. If I remember correctly they raced on this combination in 1955 & 56, and also 1960 & 61. In the last race ('61) Wolfgang von Trips was killed in his Ferrari, along with four*** spectators. Please correct me if I am wrong... :) Rob.

> Bart... > It *had* to be used in "Grand Prix", even though the cars depicted were 3 litre vehicles. The script called for a car to soar off a banking and onto another part of the track below. Monza, with the banked section, was the only one available at the time. Bruce-- I'm hip. If they'd taken all that romance and "*** sport" nonsense out, it would have been nearly as good as "LeMans" -- in fact, that's what *I* do whenever I watch the tape; just fast-forward through the horse manure... Graham Hill as "Bob Turner" is the best tongue-in-cheek performance by a racing driver ever, and Phil Hill's histrionics are worth the price of admission alone. If you've never read Graham Hill's autobio "Life At the Limit", it's a must. Beneath that deadpan expression we always see in old race photos was one of the wildest party-animals of his generation. Bart Brown

You referring to the Monza track, Rob? If so, you are correct....the last F1 cars to race there (as part of a GP Championship) were the 1.5 litre Formula machines. The banking was never used for a Championship race after that. -- Bruce (at work) "Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired." (Jules Renard)

Bart... It *had* to be used in "Grand Prix", even though the cars depicted were 3 litre vehicles. The script called for a car to soar off a banking and onto another part of the track below. Monza, with the banked section, was the only one available at the time. -- Bruce (at work) "Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired." (Jules Renard)

<<I think Dan Gurney is lurking there in the drivers' meeting, too! Anybody else anyone can identify? I'm curious....>> Hmmm...from memory, Gurney for sure, Richie Ginther, Bruce McLaren, Bob Bondurant, Jochen Rindt, Jack Brabham, possibly Jo Siffert...an in scenes elsewhere Juan Fangio, Paul Frere, Baron De Graffenreid, Denny Hulme...there must be more. Of course, the most notable "missing" prson is Jim Clark, who apparently was disgusted with the whole circus, as was Henry Manney III -- his contemporary articles in Road & Track positively rail about the disruptive presence of Frankenheimer and his crew. I have a couple shots of the Ford GT MkII camera car from Watkins Glen that year -- of course, they didn't use any of the Glen footage, except for Brian Bedford bringing the trophy back to his motel room -- which was probably in Petaluma, California. I like trying to pick out all the "real" drivers in the "Michael Delaney pitwalk" scene in LeMans; I see somebody new every time...Siffert, Rodriguez, Elford, Attwood, Beltoise, Pescarolo, DeAdamich, Stommelen. And, as I'm sure you know, you can see the Porsche 908 camera car in at least one scene -- they stopped over 40 times just to reload the camera, and still finished well up in class! I'd love to see ALL the on-course footage -- there must be 3 or 4 days' worth, counting the camera car that raced, and the footage shot when McQueen rented the track... Bart

On Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:45:42 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown

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>> Bart... >> It *had* to be used in "Grand Prix", even though the cars depicted were 3 litre vehicles. >>The script called for a car to soar off a banking and onto another part of the track below. >>Monza, with the banked section, was the only one available at the time. >Bruce-- >I'm hip. If they'd taken all that romance and "*** sport" nonsense >out, it would have been nearly as good as "LeMans" -- in fact, that's >what *I* do whenever I watch the tape; just fast-forward through the >horse manure...

Granted, there is much filler in _Grand_Prix_ ("Do you ever get tired--of the racing?"), although the opening sequence alone makes it arguably the best racing movie of all time. But _LeMans_ might have been much better if McQueen had not gone overboard trying to make it hyper-real; the studio yanked control from him after it became apparent that McQueen was obsessed. _On_Track_ had an interesting article on the subject a couple months back. I don't think it was McQueen's idea to start the movie with a flashback of a flaming wreck. Absolutely, Phil was a total hoot! I like the look Hill gives the injured driver's wife. I think Dan Gurney is lurking there in the drivers' meeting, too! Anybody else anyone can identify? I'm curious.... He was one cool cat, no doubt. Michael Tracy ------------------------------------------------------ Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" Homer: "Thanks, honey." ------------------------------------------------------

You've got that right! Last summer I had the chance to see "Grand Prix" in a small theater at the LA County Museum of Art. I had only seen it once before in a theater when it was first released. What a thrill! The opening scenes just give me chills, those shots of the run through Monte Carlo are better than most of the "high tech" in-car shots we get today from the real GP cars. Get the tape and play it while you're racing GP2/F1RS, I guarentee it will knock half a second off your lap times! ( just be watching your monitor and not the TV!) don

On Sat, 07 Feb 1998 02:19:31 GMT, >Absolutely, Phil was a total hoot! I like the look Hill >gives the injured driver's wife. I realize the second sentence was ambiguous--I meant to say that *Graham* Hill gave a look.... Michael Tracy ------------------------------------------------------ Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" Homer: "Thanks, honey." ------------------------------------------------------

Yikes! _Grand_Prix_ on the big screen again? And I missed it? Shoot! But even on video the beginning of the film is (to use a much overused term) *awesome*! I would probably have heart failure if I saw it in a theatre again. Michael Tracy ------------------------------------------------------ Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" Homer: "Thanks, honey." ------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 06 Feb 1998 22:57:14 +0000, Barton Spencer Brown

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><<I think Dan Gurney is lurking there in the drivers' meeting, >too! Anybody else anyone can identify? I'm curious....>> >Hmmm...from memory, Gurney for sure, Richie Ginther, Bruce McLaren, Bob >Bondurant, Jochen Rindt, Jack Brabham, possibly Jo Siffert...an in >scenes elsewhere Juan Fangio, Paul Frere, Baron De Graffenreid, Denny >Hulme...there must be more.

To quote Benny Parsons, "Wow!" An interesting contrast to the media-friendly attitude today. At least they didn't have radio communication, the better to interview drivers during yellows! Cool. Are the shots on the net? You flatter me sir. My ignorance is as deep as it is wide. For example, Siffert is the only name in the preceding paragraph of which I have even a vague recollection. (At least I recognized a majority of the _Grand_Prix_ names, though.) Seconded. Very interesting! Michael Tracy ------------------------------------------------------ Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" Homer: "Thanks, honey." ------------------------------------------------------

I snuck into my college's theatre a few months back, and popped my widescreen video edition of "Grand Prix" into the video projector, and fit it to the screen perfectly. Then I cranked up the audio, and sat front and center on the first row.......INCREDIBLE!!!!! Brandon Reed

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>Yikes! _Grand_Prix_ on the big screen again? And I missed >it? Shoot! But even on video the beginning of the film is >(to use a much overused term) *awesome*! I would probably >have heart failure if I saw it in a theatre again. >Michael Tracy >------------------------------------------------------ >Lisa: "That's specious reasoning!" >Homer: "Thanks, honey." >------------------------------------------------------

Number 6 Every Other Man Productions Reed Racing & Enginering http://www.***highway.net/~blreed "Be king in your dreams." - Andrew Carnegie

> I think Dan Gurney is lurking there in the drivers' meeting, > too! Anybody else anyone can identify? I'm curious.... Bob Bondurant (of the 'Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving') discusses working on the movie in his book, as it was his first experience teaching. A picture captioned "Some of the driving crew from Grand Prix..." features Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, James Garner, Guy Liger, Dan Gurney, Jo Schlesser, Bruce McLaren, Antonio Sabato and Jo Siffert. - Matt "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving," Bob Bondurant, John Blakemore, Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI, 1993. ISBN 0-879380751-3