F1RS: Hungary Accurate?

I just got done running about 5 laps at Hungary for the first time. What I want to know is who said the track is inaccurate and why? I simply don't believe it. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>I just got done running about 5 laps at Hungary for the first time. >What I want to know is who said the track is inaccurate and why? >I simply don't believe it. I've driven just a few laps on Hungaroring in F1RS and it's pretty good. Some elevation changes are missing though (like from corner 3 to 4) and there isn't a "blind" left turn at corner 4 like in GP2 (and real life ?). Teemu. --

Greg Cisko wrote : I would like also to add that the Montreal track is the most fake track I ever saw in F1RS. I live 5mins of this track, and I raced many times on it. 11months a year 1/4 of the track is a road for people to get into the *** (the 180turn and the stretch before the pits chicane serves as that). Btw the *** is the big round thins you see in the middle of the track. All the rest (3/4) is also a road, without any cops (hehe) so my friend and I go often race there "for the fun of it". I went to all the F1 races since 1989 so I know how it is. Overall the Gp2 Montreal track is very much better. The front stretch is good, the little turn to the right after the grandstands turns too much (it's about 10degrees less in reality). The Senna chicane is "decent", but grandstand are not really what and where they are (Gp2 has them better). 1 major thing. Where is the elevation change after the Senna chicane !!!!!!!! This is the best part of the track, and Gp2 has it perfect !!!!!. In F1RS there is no elevation, but in reality it's about 3meters high. This is the best place in the circuit to see who is the best driver, and Schumi is the only one who takes it perfectly. After there is a right-left and it's wayyy to slow. It's full speed in reality. After there is the stretch where Panis got his crash, and it's not very good in F1RS. After it's getting better. The next chicane is good. The stretch were you pass under the bridge is very well done. The only bad thing is the bridge itself, it's REALLY not it ;-). The only thing bad is that there is too many trees, in reality you can see Montreal downtown there. Btw the downtown is so lame, it's West in F1RS, but in reality it's North ! Another well done chicane after, and a good stretch (the one before the 180turn). The 180 hairpin is not good. It's kinda a double-apex turn in F1RS but it isn't that in reality. Finally, the long straight is "decent" it still turns too much, in reality there is a little tiny turn. Gp2 had Montreal 1994 modelled perfectly, except the pits that are funny. I'm not whining, just saying that the Montreal track is F1RS is not well done. F1RS is a blast. (but nothing is better than N2 IMHO still....). * Fran?ois Mnard * With great respect, * May the downforce be with you, * Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) * <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by * [link lost in import] * SimRacing director, AWPSS * Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. * Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) * Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g> begin 666 ymenard.vcf M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"DXZ3>EN87)D.T9R86[G;VES.TXN#0I&3CIY;65N87)D M3#M#14Q,.U9/24-%.DXO00T*5$5,.TA/344[1D%8.DXO00T*0412.TA/344Z M.SLQ,30V.2!/=FED92U#;&5R;6]N=#M-;VYT<F5A;"U.;W)D.U%U96)E8SM( M3E1!0DQ%.C$Q-#8Y($]V:61E+4-L97)M;VYT/3!$/3!!36]N=')E86PM3F]R M+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"E523#IH='1P.B\O=W=W+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"D5-04E, M.U!2148[24Y415).150Z>6UE;F%R9$!A=W!S<RYC;VT-"D5.1#I60T%21 T* ` end

Huh. Well I guess I will dismiss future objections from you then. Nothing personal but I think the track is fine :-) I was amazed how much different is was from Hockenheim. Hockenheim was a very tough track to win (against AMTR AI. Quit laughing :-) ). But Hungary was very different. To me it was the same difference as going from Talladega to Martinsville. Hungary is very much a short track in F1. F1RS showed this very well. So the final lefthander before the main straight isn't good enough or something? I remember from ESPN2 F1 races, that Hungary was not all that hilly. It seems better than you make it seem. It certainly does not deter from my enjoyment of the track or game at all (it is my 11th track in F1RS) . Oh well I guess I learned allot about peoples perceptions :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:26:08 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >>I just got done running about 5 laps at Hungary for the first time. >>What I want to know is who said the track is inaccurate and why? >>I simply don't believe it. >I did. >It's inaccurate in the same way Suzuka is - the layout of the track >itself is fine but it misses the elevation changes. >Cheers! >John

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:26:08 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >I just got done running about 5 laps at Hungary for the first time. >What I want to know is who said the track is inaccurate and why? >I simply don't believe it. I did. It's inaccurate in the same way Suzuka is - the layout of the track itself is fine but it misses the elevation changes. Cheers! John

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:39:15 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >Huh. Well I guess I will dismiss future objections from >you then. Nothing personal but I think the track is fine :-) So on what grounds will you "dismiss future objections"? Simply because you think it's fine? Great, I'm very happy for you, but here's the news - it _IS_ wrong. Maybe you like it and if so that's great, but if accuracy and simulation is what you seek then it isn't correct. Hockenheim is also wrong (Ostkurve chicane the worst offender), but not as bad as Hungaroring or Suzuka. So.....you don't actually know the track then!? Go and try it in GP2, which gets it pretty correct. The best corner is T4(?), what should be a sharp left hander at the crest of an uphill sweep, in fact the only really good corner on the track - GONE. You learn even more about people's tolerance of others and level of understanding. For me, I don't really give a damn if Martinsville was banked like Bristol - I've never been there, never seen it, not interested, I just like driving in N2. I am however, perfectly willing to accept that it _is_ important for NASCAR fans, and so I also demand accuracy in the NASCAR sim. So too with you in F1 - you don't know Suzuka or Hungaroring well so you don't know how much you are being deprived of by not having accurate tracks. At least be willing to accept the opinion of others though. Cheers! John

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>On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:39:15 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >>Huh. Well I guess I will dismiss future objections from >>you then. Nothing personal but I think the track is fine :-) >So on what grounds will you "dismiss future objections"? Simply >because you think it's fine? Great, I'm very happy for you, but here's >the news - it _IS_ wrong. Maybe you like it and if so that's great, >but if accuracy and simulation is what you seek then it isn't correct.

I guess I am not as ***about it :-) OK. I would if I didn't throw the game out :) \>accuracy in the NASCAR sim. So too with you in F1 - you don't know And then again, maybe you don't know how deproved you have been without a quality F1 simulator. I am willing to listen to the opinions of others, I always have. Doesn't mean I have to accept it though. What I mean it you may well be right about the elevations. I do not think that what F1RS has completely ruins the experience. And that is the tone that you do set. Just because you think that left-hander is the best turn on the track does not mean I have to accept it. I kind of like the sweeping turn one which goes under that bridge. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Greg, In the real Hungaroring, you drop down throughout turns 1,2,+ 3. The straight after turn 3 slopes down slightly, but goes up again just before turn 4. In real life (tm) this is a blind corner, looks quite scarey, not so in F1RS. Also, the final 2 turns leading onto the pit straight are uphill. Julian > I just got done running about 5 laps at Hungary for the first time. > What I want to know is who said the track is inaccurate and why? > I simply don't believe it. > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

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>Greg, >In the real Hungaroring, you drop down throughout turns 1,2,+ 3. The >straight after turn 3 slopes down slightly, but goes up again just before >turn 4. In real life (tm) this is a blind corner, looks quite scarey, not >so in F1RS. Also, the final 2 turns leading onto the pit straight are >uphill.

The final 2 turns in F1RS are uphill too. I will check turns 1,2 & 3. I am suspecting that these elevation changes are modeled. But possibly not enough for some people. And John... Yes I do understand about tracks not being accurate. If Martinsville were banked like Bristol, it would wreck the whole experience. So I would say the same should be true about F1RS. So far though I have not been dissapointed, possibly because I am not familiar enough to appreciate it. I guess I was just going by shape, and not elevation. However many of the tracks do show more apparent elevation changes than GP2. Or seemed to to me. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Greg, FWIW, I talked to the folks at Ubi Soft, and they confirmed John's suspicions about the inaccuracies of the tracks. They also said they have no plans for a patch to fix this. =( Cheers! Marc -- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simproject.com/simnews <remove '*' before replying>

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:01:10 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >I guess I am not as ***about it :-) The phrase you were searching for was "open minded". Being able to see and accept someone's opinion is only ***when your pre-***. You have to accept it as their opinion. If Jacques Villeneuve told you F1RS was ***and nothing like an F1 car, you would have to accept that, no? The only difference here is that you don't know the background of the people you are talking with. No, but you have to accept that it ruins it _for_me_ and therefore it may well ruin it for others. I've done three laps at Suzuka since I got F1RS, compared to the hundreds that I've done at Nurburgring, Monza, Monaco, Melbourne, wherever. For me the game is two tracks short of complete - for you it's fine. That's great, I'm glad you enjoy it. Cheers! John

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:01:30 -0800, "Marc J. Nelson" >FWIW, I talked to the folks at Ubi Soft, and they confirmed John's >suspicions about the inaccuracies of the tracks. They also said >they have no plans for a patch to fix this. =( Bummer!!! Eagle Woman Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

>FWIW, I talked to the folks at Ubi Soft, and they confirmed John's >suspicions about the inaccuracies of the tracks. They also said >they have no plans for a patch to fix this. =( Well that certainly wouldn't be good. I guess I am glad I didn't know Hungary is that bad. Oh well. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>You have to accept it as their opinion. If Jacques Villeneuve told you >F1RS was ***and nothing like an F1 car, you would have to accept Frankly if he did say that I would wonder what his problem was. I know that it is impossible to completely simulate these things with a computer on a 14" flat screen, but come on F1RS is the best available. There are many real pilots that don't like PC flightsimulators because it is impossible to simulate the real thing. I am sure the same is true of auto simulators. Of course I accept that it is ruined for you. And now UBIsoft says apparently told Mr. Simracing News that the tracks are off as you say and will not be fixed. What I won't do is drive around those circuits thinking how they suck, because that isn't what I think. I guess I am just not affected by it as much or something. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Have to agree that the Ostkurve seems broken based on watching it on the tube from in car....really seems to be missing the elevations. Hopefully patchs will fix that sort of thing up. Not a game killer by any stretch of the imagination for me...though...just a wish they would fix it...kind of thing..<VBG>. Pierre Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

> FWIW, I talked to the folks at Ubi Soft, and they confirmed John's > suspicions about the inaccuracies of the tracks. They also said > they have no plans for a patch to fix this. =( That's not cool. I will continue to enjoy this sim. What do you hear of Starting Grid? Is that a dream that has died? If so, what did it in? Larry

Could you elaborate...? Im not sure I understand the point your making...? Surely you dont mean that I should expend the sort of effort I typically make when buying a car, when I buy a GAME...eh? Being a *** Flight Simmer (someone else's definition of me) I realize how important the details can be to some people. But in reality it helps to realize that hey its only a game....HAVE FUN. PAPA DOC

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>When you buy a TV, a computer chip, or perhaps a car, don't you try to >find out as much as possible about the product to ensure you're getting >the best deal possible?...or do you simply plonk-down your cash for >whatever's in front of you? ;) >Cheers! >Marc >-- >(please remove '*' when replying) >Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com >The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...

> What do you hear of Starting Grid? Is that a dream that has > died? If so, what did it in? Not a peep! Doesn't look good for the sim, especially with a possibilty of GP3 coming to a Christmas near you. This, plus licensing, and the scandal that's about to hit Uncle Bernie square in the face, could very well keep it off the store shelves indefinately. =( Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '*' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail * -- (please remove '*' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> Well that certainly wouldn't be good. I guess I am glad I didn't know > Hungary is that bad. Oh well. When you buy a TV, a computer chip, or perhaps a car, don't you try to find out as much as possible about the product to ensure you're getting the best deal possible?...or do you simply plonk-down your cash for whatever's in front of you? ;) Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '*' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> Frankly if he did say that I would wonder what his problem was. > I know that it is impossible to completely simulate these things > with a computer on a 14" flat screen, but come on F1RS is the > best available. There are many real pilots that don't like PC > flightsimulators because it is impossible to simulate the real > thing. I am sure the same is true of auto simulators. A few points: simulators are not designed with monitor size in mind; if someone made a sim of a beach-ball game, and the ball was square, would you find it so easy to accept? I would presume these pilots may be referring to the "seat_of_the_pants" feeling missing from flight sims, and this may also be true for motorsports sims. Mr. Sim Racing News?...ah am truley honored sah! ;) I don't recall John saying they suck, I believe he stated that the experience was ruined for him, because of what he may expect to see in a sim (see beach-ball theory above)? Perhaps you're more affected than you think, else you wouldn't continue to respond to this thread. ;) Cheers! Marc -- (please remove '*' when replying) Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:14:10 -0600, "Greg Cisko" >Frankly if he did say that I would wonder what his problem was. >I know that it is impossible to completely simulate these things >with a computer on a 14" flat screen, but come on F1RS is the >best available. There are many real pilots that don't like PC >flightsimulators because it is impossible to simulate the real >thing. I am sure the same is true of auto simulators. That's exactly what I mean. F1RS is the best thing available _for_you_ but you must accept that others do not share that opinion. JV's problem would be that he knows what it should feel like and can judge how much is missing and how well simulated are the parts that are there. You and I can only guess at these things, and hence F1RS satisfies us to different degrees depending upon our knowledge, experience, and consequent expectations. I don't drive around the circuits thinking how much they suck either, I just don't drive around those circuits. If you are releasing a simulation then you have some responsibility to do it properly, since that impacts upon your customers and in turn upon your sales. Quite apart from that, if I was a circuit owner and had agreed to license my track I would at least like to see it done properly. OTOH they probably don't care too much as long as the money rolls in - sadly another general truism of modern business. Cheers! John

>Have to agree that the Ostkurve seems broken based on watching it on >the tube from in car....really seems to be missing the elevations. >Hopefully patchs will fix that sort of thing up. Not a game killer by >any stretch of the imagination for me...though...just a wish they >would fix it...kind of thing..<VBG>. I dont know how Ubisoft made the tracks but if it's anything like the way they made the tracks in Pod then it should be rather easy for them, considering how many extra tracks they churned out for that. Tony

On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:27:33 -0800, "Marc J. Nelson" >When you buy a TV, a computer chip, or perhaps a car, don't you try to >find out as much as possible about the product to ensure you're getting >the best deal possible?...or do you simply plonk-down your cash for >whatever's in front of you? ;) You know, there are times when I wonder whether blissful ignorance isn't the way to go ;-) Cheers, Richard

On a relative scale, why not? Surely things need to be kept in their proper perspective, but my point was that the game/sim experience is what you make it. =) Cheers! Marc > Could you elaborate...? Im not sure I understand the point your > making...? Surely you dont mean that I should expend the sort of > effort I typically make when buying a car, when I buy a GAME...eh? -- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simproject.com/simnews <remove '*' before replying>

Sure would save a hellava' lot of time! =P Cheers! Marc > You know, there are times when I wonder whether blissful ignorance isn't > the way to go ;-) -- Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - http://www.simproject.com/simnews <remove '*' before replying>