Cart gets 5 stars?!?! ....

www.computer***.com It even goes on to say that CART Precision Racing "qualifies as the best game of its type ever produced." *Plonk* *Plonk* Excuse me??..... "best game of its type ever produced" .... What the hell is next? Sierra's Pro Pilot as "most technicaly advanced"!!! Outlaw

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> www.computer***.com > It even goes on to say that CART Precision Racing "qualifies as the best > game of its type ever produced." > *Plonk* *Plonk* > Excuse me??..... "best game of its type ever produced" .... What the hell is > next? Sierra's Pro Pilot as "most technicaly advanced"!!!

It's strange, even ThePits lost it over this game. They gave it their highest ranking... l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Yeah, not sure what the guy was on when he reviewed it. CGW usually has some honest reviews, especially in the flight sim area. This one was way off base. Andy Andy Please use address below for all email replies

>>www.computer***.com >>It even goes on to say that CART Precision Racing "qualifies as the best >>game of its type ever produced." >Yeah, not sure what the guy was on when he reviewed it. CGW usually >has some honest reviews, especially in the flight sim area. This one >was way off base. I don't have much experience with CART, having only played the demo. I do still have a subscription to CGW. I will note that Gordon Goble usually reviews auto sims. The net review is by Scott May. I've seen the name before, but don't know his sim review history. I wouldn't rush to damn them all for one review. Though yes, editor/other inputs should be considered if the reviewers opinion is decidedly different from the rest of the knowledgeable staff.

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>> www.computer***.com >> It even goes on to say that CART Precision Racing "qualifies as the best >> game of its type ever produced." >> *Plonk* *Plonk* >> Excuse me??..... "best game of its type ever produced" .... What the hell

is

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>> next? Sierra's Pro Pilot as "most technicaly advanced"!!! >It's strange, even ThePits lost it over this game. They gave it their >highest >ranking... >l8er >ronny >-- > |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, > ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. Only the best will survive in CPR!! Later George Sandman Zone Name The_Sandman1 Stealth Racing #1 1997 CICC PPG Champion 1996 CICC PPG Champion 1996 NWSICT PPG Champion 1996 FRL PPG Champion

I do have allot of experience with CPR and these glowing reviews are just false. What I think it boils down to is this. If you have never played an autosim before and are otherwise unknowledgable about this genere, CPR is very likely to blow you away. The fact that most of the glowing reviews do not even come close to mentioning the faults with the AI, I think proves this out. I got into an email thing with the reviewer and his editor from PCGAMES who gave a similar positive review. This reviewer was a real racecar driver and still was clueless with regards to CPR's problems. He told me his positive review was based on the upcoming patch. However this fact was not mentioned in the review. When I asked about CPR's poor AI, the response was that in his opinion as a race car driver the AI in CPR was not that bad. What a total pile of crap! I also think it proves out that just because you are a real racecar driver does not mean that you know about computer car simulations. Another point of proof is the nutty things supposed real drivers claim about the F1RS driving model. Alison is the only one who seems to have it together :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" >You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real >fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new >patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear >people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 >drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. Could it be that CPR turns people off so quickly that they never have the chance to get good at it? In any case, I tried for many hours to tweak CPR and try to enjoy it, and I got to be pretty damn quick during that time. You know what? No matter how fast I got it made absolutely no difference to the AI, the poor handling, the graphical glitches and pauses, the strange brake balance, the frame-rate, the....you get the idea. Cheers! John

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" >You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real >fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new >patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear >people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 >drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. George, I have to disagree a bit. I am not the fastest driver at ICR2, but I consider myself pretty good. My trouble with CPR is that at Australia (my favorite track BTW, if you couldn't tell after that qualifying battle in CICC97) is too distracting to drive on. Every color jumps out in full intensity. It just doesn't look that colorful from the in-car camera shots on TV. The blue banners are so blue and the red banners are so red that I get eye fatigue. For some reason, the view seems to be distorted, as if looking through a fisheye lens. This is not an artifact of my Monster 3D, because it does the same when using my Intense 3D 100. Now, since the patch I've gotten much improved frame rates with spikes near 50 fps WITHOUT the***pit. When I turn the***pit on, which is a must for me, my framerate is horrible, usually in the low to mid twenties indicated, but it seems much slower. Now, F1RS, there's a sim--the understeer model is incredible, but unfortunately it still has the same crappy oversteer recovery mode as GP2, where you can simply put down the brake pedal to catch your spin much of the time. I don't know about F1 cars of course, but in my street car (rear wheel drive), putting the brake down does not correct an oversteer condition. So anyway, I think that CPR is simply missing some spit and polish, and I'm looking forward to CPR:2, if there ever is one. Clark 1997 MIRacing Enduro 24 Champion (co-driver) (had to put something down here after that trophy wall you posted)

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> You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real > fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new > patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear > people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 > drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. > Only the best will survive in CPR!!

Two words: Yellow flags! If good lap times says anything about the quality of a sim, you're right! I guess they have competitions with Psygnosis "Arcade" F1 too, still it's a terrible racing sim... l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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>On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" >>You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real >>fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new >>patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear >>people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 >>drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. >George, I have to disagree a bit. I am not the fastest driver at >ICR2, but I consider myself pretty good. My trouble with CPR is that >at Australia (my favorite track BTW, if you couldn't tell after that >qualifying battle in CICC97) is too distracting to drive on. Every >color jumps out in full intensity. It just doesn't look that colorful >from the in-car camera shots on TV. The blue banners are so blue and >the red banners are so red that I get eye fatigue. For some reason, >the view seems to be distorted, as if looking through a fisheye lens. >This is not an artifact of my Monster 3D, because it does the same >when using my Intense 3D 100. >Now, since the patch I've gotten much improved frame rates with >spikes near 50 fps WITHOUT the***pit. When I turn the***pit on, >which is a must for me, my framerate is horrible, usually in the low >to mid twenties indicated, but it seems much slower. Now, F1RS, >there's a sim--the understeer model is incredible, but unfortunately >it still has the same crappy oversteer recovery mode as GP2, where you >can simply put down the brake pedal to catch your spin much of the >time. I don't know about F1 cars of course, but in my street car >(rear wheel drive), putting the brake down does not correct an >oversteer condition. >So anyway, I think that CPR is simply missing some spit and polish, >and I'm looking forward to CPR:2, if there ever is one. >Clark >1997 MIRacing Enduro 24 Champion (co-driver) >(had to put something down here after that trophy wall you posted)

Dang Clark, Thanks I hadnt put the MIR stuff down. hmmm ok got to add: 1997 MIRacing Enduro 24 Pole and all the other races and stuff. and we both get the Team championship for the year, well after the 24 hr race in Feb but who can catch us? But see you know how fast and consistant I am or was in ICR2 right? I am finding it real hard to even try to run ICR2. I am just having to much fun with CPR. Btw with the graphics I have on I am running 20 -22 fps and am having no problem. and as for the colors you can adjust the track and objects brightness. I know there is alot of things that still need to be fixed in CPR, but have you seen the checklist that you can fill out on the Apex site for the NEXT PATCH!!! I got tired of the offline league stuff and was spending hundreds of dollars a month modem racing ICR2. Now I plan on running the Enduro Races in ICR2 but dont have any plans to run any ICR2 leagues. Who wants to race stupid AI. I know exactly where I can pass the AI in ICR2 at any moment on any track. what fun that is!! at least I am racing humans that are very unpredictable and, stupid on occasions but at least they are human! One thing I hated in ICR2 when I first started driving it, was I would try to drive it like you should drive a real race car, and found out fast that you dont ever ease into the throttle or brakes. You do alot of slamming the gas and brakes to be fast. What is realistic about that? Clark, you have seen My 1:36.422 lap at Elkhart. It is a flawless lap except for getting the tires off at the exit of turn 1. Now try getting your tires off on the grass and stay in the gas in CPR and you will get dizzy real fast! Now lets look at Long Beach. I am running mid 50's with the new patch in Pro mode. I can oversteer or understeer the car at will! and if you dont take care of your tires you cannot get them to last very long at all. So far I am pushing it just alittle to hard and can only get 40 laps or so on a set. Why dont you come to the zone this Sunday and watch me win Long Beach :) You know Clark, I have been a racing fanatic for many years and dont miss many races at all. I know, on alot of the tracks where the drivers brake, accelerate or have to baby it, and where they dont. In CPR you can do the same as the CART drivers do. So I will keep winning at CPR untill some of you guys accept the challenge and come put 110% of you concentration and abilities on the line to run fast here. This is no piece of cake, unless you use the older ver and use Rain tires, then it will feel like ICR2. Now you say F1RS now there is a Sim? Well I havent tried it yet, so I am not bashing it, but all the stuff I see here in RAS tells me that I wont like it a bit. No sensation of speed. hey, that sounds like GP2 when it would come down to a crawl when you got near traffic. Boy it is sure easy to be on the perfect line when there is no speed sensation. Now this is just one of the things I have read here. I have since stopped reading any of the F1RS stuff and I will just try for myself when it is on the shelfs here. Well Enough of this, I am gonna go put my driving shoes on and run a few more practice sessions at Long Beach. Hey, ya know there was some guy in the zone the other day with the name Little Al, hmmm, you think? I dont know but I tell you if they come here I'll be ready! Later fellow Gulf/JAG Team Member George Sandman btw, lets do alot of gas and brake slamming in ICR2 and tear em up in the 24hr Race at Sears Point next month.

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> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" > >You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real > >fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new > >patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear > >people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 > >drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. > Could it be that CPR turns people off so quickly that they never have > the chance to get good at it? > In any case, I tried for many hours to tweak CPR and try to enjoy it, > and I got to be pretty damn quick during that time. You know what? No > matter how fast I got it made absolutely no difference to the AI, the > poor handling, the graphical glitches and pauses, the strange brake > balance, the frame-rate, the....you get the idea. > Cheers! > John

Ditto!

>> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" >> >You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are real >> >fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the new

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>> >patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I hear >> >people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 >> >drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. >> Could it be that CPR turns people off so quickly that they never have >> the chance to get good at it? >> In any case, I tried for many hours to tweak CPR and try to enjoy it, >> and I got to be pretty damn quick during that time. You know what? No >> matter how fast I got it made absolutely no difference to the AI, the >> poor handling, the graphical glitches and pauses, the strange brake >> balance, the frame-rate, the....you get the idea. >> Cheers! >> John > Ditto!

poor handling? Graphical glitches? Pauses? I guess you are using the Keyboard as a controller, running this on what a 75Mhz and didnt do i full install and are running it from the cd! Frame rate is fine here on my 233 and with a Screaming 3d card at that! As for the AI they all suck in all sims I have tried so I am used to stupid AI. Try Humans its more of a challenge! The one Point I would agree with is the brake balance, and that took a little time to get used to but If you dont slam it to the floor like you are used to it is drivable. Its obvious that you havent seen the checklist that we can use to suggest the thinks that we want fixed in the 2nd patch, Isnt that F1RS (Really Sucks) oh, sorry I am starting to sound like Byron. Talking shit about something I havent tried :) Isnt that F1RS on its 5th patch already? whats up with that? after 5 patches they havent got it right yet. Boy, they should be glad that Microsoft didnt put that out, cause you guys would have a field day with that one!! George

: I don't have much experience with CART, having only played the demo. I do : still have a subscription to CGW. I will note that Gordon Goble usually : reviews auto sims. The net review is by Scott May. I've seen the name I noticed this also. Gordon Goble has been a favorite reviewer of mine since he covered Indy 500 way back when. It puzzles me as to why he was given NFS2SE, SODA, and TD4 to review when there was much bigger fish to fry. Does anyone know if he's done an online review of CPR? Martin

>poor handling? Graphical glitches? Pauses? >I guess you are using the Keyboard as a controller, running this on what a >75Mhz and didnt do i full install and are running it from the cd! Yaaaaaaawn - the standard usenet opening. I am running CPR with a TSW on a iP225-MMX and with a full install and through an Orchid Righteous 3dFX. The frame rate is awful and there are definite pauses. If I can run GP2 smoothly I would expect a program which benefits from my 3dFX to do so also. Strange that. I've never found another sim where the AI can't complete a lap of an oval without spinning or crashing. I guess there must be levels of "suckiness", with GP2 or ICR2 being, oh, say, a small peck on the cheek, and CPR being a eezy glide turbo-suction industrial strength vacuum cleaner. The "try humans" is a good idea though - I'll head for NROS where I can race 20+ people and have something beyond endless pick-up races. The only way it is drivable is by hacking the garage to set the balance further to the rear. In a real car the balance is around 60% front or more (due to the weight transferring forward under braking). CPR requires brake balance to be only 30-40% rearward to have all four wheels locking simultaneously. Looks like the CPR cars have somehow managed to avoid weight transfer under braking. It's even more obvious that you are incapable of making such a judgement, since I have not only seen the checklist but filled it in and sent off my suggestions. There's a difference between fixing a broken tail-light and a complete engine rebuild. F1RS has had _one_ of the former while CPR's attempt at the latter made no inroads at all toward improving the primary areas of concern. If this is a "bash Microsoft" thing then please explain to me why I praised Monster Truck Madness so much and would crawl over broken glass with my fly unzipped to rescue my copy of Excel 97? Such comments cheapen any discussion and change rational debate into slanging matches. Cheers! John

Hi John, I think what you mention here is a basic problem. I have a STB Velocity AGP and with all the details on even at a place like Vancouver I get 30+ fps Could it be due to CPR not being written for 3dfx but patched to it? Where the opposite was true for F1rs being written for 3dfx and patched to D3D where I never had great graphics and things like the tunnel at Monaco is pitch black. This AI thing too. Again Using Vancouver as an example I use Pro settings have great competitions with the AI. Then to see about all this spinning crashing stuff. I stopped my car right on the race line under the covered section of track. Switching to an outside view I waited for the pack to come around none hit me all went around hmmm. Ok next test I turn my car sideways in the same spot leaving barely enough room to get around front or back end of my car same results, they swerve and go around. Now I am not telling you this to dispute what you said as I hardly raced the AI in pre patched versions. But I thought perhaps you might like to retry it now if you still have it. With the new patch and a good set up who knows. This too I used to hack the garage file to go to 35% but since finding that to submit fast laps no garage hacking is allowed I have tried some of the Pro set-ups available now from guys like Jim & Trev and find no need to. Glad you did as there is always room for constructive input. Sorry I have to disagree F1 has lots of problems.It may be due to what I said about D3D and 3dfx. But I didn't come here and bash it I just gave it to someone who wanted to try it. I can make a list of stuff and I have a feeling you would agree with most of it but whats the point? Ubi will as MS will patch their products or suffer some loss. Cya, Mike

John was referring to the AI on ovals. And he is correct, it sucks. You are talking about the AI on road circuits which behaves differently. Apples & Oranges IMHO. Correct. You don't have 3dfx for F1RS, you will have problems & irregularities. -- Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Sorry to ***in, but if you think all AI sucks, you should try TOCA or GP2, you won't find better AI than in GP2.

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> >> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman" > >> >You know it is really strange that the ones that cant drive fast are > real > >> >fast at knocking CPR. I have no problem running fast in CPR with the > new > >> >patch. This is the most challenging sim I have seen so far. And I

hear

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> >> >people saying ICR2 is better. Excuse me, I am one of the fastest ICR2 > >> >drivers you will find but I wont be found racing ICR2. > >> Could it be that CPR turns people off so quickly that they never have > >> the chance to get good at it? > >> In any case, I tried for many hours to tweak CPR and try to enjoy it, > >> and I got to be pretty damn quick during that time. You know what? No > >> matter how fast I got it made absolutely no difference to the AI, the > >> poor handling, the graphical glitches and pauses, the strange brake > >> balance, the frame-rate, the....you get the idea. > >> Cheers! > >> John > > Ditto! > poor handling? Graphical glitches? Pauses? > I guess you are using the Keyboard as a controller, running this on what

a > 75Mhz and didnt do i full install and are running it from the cd! > Frame rate is fine here on my 233 and with a Screaming 3d card at that! > As for the AI they all suck in all sims I have tried so I am used to stupid > AI. Try Humans its more of a challenge! > The one Point I would agree with is the brake balance, and that took a > little time to get used to but If you dont slam it to the floor like you are > used to it is drivable. > Its obvious that you havent seen the checklist that we can use to suggest > the thinks that we want fixed in the 2nd patch, > Isnt that F1RS (Really Sucks) oh, sorry I am starting to sound like Byron.

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> Talking shit about something I havent tried :) > Isnt that F1RS on its 5th patch already? whats up with that? after 5 > patches they havent got it right yet. Boy, they should be glad that > Microsoft didnt put that out, cause you guys would have a field day with > that one!! > George

You haven't looked hard enough, then. The AI in F1RS beats anything out there by a long shot. Sure they are a little too conservative, but they are by far the most realistic. -- Rob

Sorry, I've never tried F1RS, as it is not available in my area yet, but you can bet it is on my list as next one to buy. Anyone in USA know if this game is available in stores yet?

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> > Sorry to ***in, but if you think all AI sucks, you should try TOCA or > > GP2, you won't find better AI than in GP2. > You haven't looked hard enough, then. The AI in F1RS beats anything out > there by a long shot. Sure they are a little too conservative, but they > are by far the most realistic. > -- > Rob

>For me, this was the key. Once I started using a lighter touch, I >realized I was actually locking up the wheels in the past. Wow, time-travel! :-) Cheers! John

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> >The one Point I would agree with is the brake balance, and that took a > >little time to get used to but If you dont slam it to the floor like you are > >used to it is drivable. > For me, this was the key. Once I started using a lighter touch, I > realized I was actually locking up the wheels in the past. > John

Maybe, but AFAIK it's still wrong. My brake pedal only travels at most 1/4 before lockup. This is the result of listening to Blundell and Co saying the brakes were not powerful enough. It just goes to show that simmer know more about sims and racers know more about racing. How can a real racer say that the brakes are not powerful enough - he has the real force feedback from a real brake. Ya gotta laugh!

On 30 Jan 1998 17:32:09 GMT, "Mikes Designs" >back end of my car same results, they swerve and go around. Now I am not >telling you this to dispute what you said as I hardly raced the AI in pre >patched versions. But I thought perhaps you might like to retry it now if >you still have it. With the new patch and a good set up who knows. I've never had CPR, only the demo, but have tried it both pre and post patch on a friend's system (he bought it from the US, poor fool). I tested the patched version both on Surfers (my fave street course) and a couple of ovals, and in all cases found the AI to be awful. On the street course they would bash me out the way as if I wasn't there, and when I eventually did get ahead I could leave them for dead. On the ovals, well, the less said the better. I could beat them in fifth gear on the Superspeedways and I didn't need to beat them on the milers - they took themselves out. All the same, I've never seen an open-wheeler with that much rear-bias required, or any race car for that matter. If fundamentals such as making the setup options equate to the real world are not correct (and this with the help of a pro) what hope the rest of it? F1RS has "problems", but I would have to laugh if anyone tried to say that F1RS had problems even remotely approaching the magnitude of the issues plaguing CPR. F1RS has problems which niggle or which require patched, but the game is still eminently playable - CPR's problems render it totally unplayable for many, myself included. A world of difference IMO. Oh I wouldn't say MS had suffered any loss, far from it. I'd guess they did pretty well out of CPR all things considered. If it had been released by Papy it would have gone down like a burning Spitfire, and I know I would have been that much harder on it simply because my expectations of a Papyrus sim would have been that much higher (sorry Mike and the lads if you're reading!). Cheers! John

couple of ovals, and in all cases found the AI to be awful. On the street course they would bash me out the way as if I wasn't there, >> I find it hard to believe this was POST-patch unless you were all over the road. There are still a lot of problems with the game post-patch, but kamikaze AI isn't one of them. They do an uncanny job at avoiding you when behind you. At Surfer's where I've spent many hours the last several days, the AI flaw I did notice was that they would bunch up before the first chicane on each straight, and I could mostly knife right past them to the left at high overtake speed and still not hit anything. That made them easy fodder at even the toughest level of difficulty, though they were very competitive around the rest of the circuit. gear on the Superspeedways >> Speed limits on the ovals and slow AI is a killer on this one, that's for sure I still see SOME of this post-patch, but its far better than it was. most of the time they can get around by themselves -- they just aren't fast enough. Are you SURE you were using the patched version? Because everything you're saying sounds to a T like the pre-patch version. I've spent many hours post-patch and what I see doesn't mesh with what you see. Perhaps you could give me an experiment of sorts where you want me to put the car in order to get 'bashed out of the way' by an AI car so I can see it happen. The only times I've seen it happen is when the car is so close to me when I spin out on my own that they can't avoid me. Randy All the same, I've never seen an open-wheeler with that much rear-bias required, or any race car for that matter. If fundamentals such as making the setup options equate to the real world are not correct (and this with the help of a pro) what hope the rest of it? F1RS has "problems", but I would have to laugh if anyone tried to say that F1RS had problems even remotely approaching the magnitude of the issues plaguing CPR. F1RS has problems which niggle or which require patched, but the game is still eminently playable - CPR's problems render it totally unplayable for many, myself included. A world of difference IMO. Oh I wouldn't say MS had suffered any loss, far from it. I'd guess they did pretty well out of CPR all things considered. If it had been released by Papy it would have gone down like a burning Spitfire, and I know I would have been that much harder on it simply because my expectations of a Papyrus sim would have been that much higher (sorry Mike and the lads if you're reading!). Cheers! John Randy Magruder Staff Writer Digital Sportspage http://www.digitalsports.com/

I I am really surprised as Australia and Mid Ohio are my favorites and I have not had these results. The only time I have been bumped from behind is when I really flub a corner while dicing with an AI. Other than that well I am still new and my times at Surfers are pretty bad in the 138 range but they seem quite competitive there. On the Ovals which I admit I haven't put in a lot of time except at Miami. I dont see the pre patched crashing into each other that I read about. This part is best left alone it would serve no purpose to get into. I have had both full versions of both sims. I also gave both a lot of attention. CPR just did it for me which is not to say its better, just better for me ;-) Cya, Mike