Papy's CART vs. GP2

Hi Yesterday I got my copy of Papyrus/Sierra CART Racing (=ICR2). (Yes, yes, I know that the "modern" things are the 3D/voodoo games F1RS and CPR, .... Still talking of the older ones ...) When I now compare CART/ICR2 to the GP2 I've been using quite a while, I have some some things to complain in CART: I think the SVGA graphics there are much inferior to those of GP2! Why all the trackside objects look so similiar to VGA version of the game? Cars and track look better, though. But still more important: the handling and behaviour of the car feels much less "realistic" in CART. Are those cars rally that much hevier? (Yes, I know that in reality they are about 200 kg hevier than F1 cars.) But do you really have to slow down that much in the corners of street- and motortracks? And do you have to start braking that much earlier compared to F1 cars? The reacting of the car feels much slower and heavier. How well this difference really simulates the difference between real CART and F1 cars? Arto PS I anyhow enjoy the CART Racing, too. It'll be very interesting to practice the tracks before real races! And pity that all 98' tracks are not incluced! PS2 Perhaps also better setups could help to gain more "driving a car"-feeling?

Yes, the CART Champ cars don't handle nearly as well as F1 cars. For several reasons, but one of the biggest is the IRON brakes that Champ cars run. When Paul Tracey tested an F1 car he had to watch the practice and race to see the braking points. Then when he drove he had to force himself to hold off braking well past his comfort zone. After saying that tho..the new Penkse/Mercedes on it's first test at Silverstone "reportedly" broke the F1 track record. Of course we don't know how high the Merced turbo boost was and Silverstone is more suited to the Champ cars with it's long straights but...generally,,, F1 turns better, stops better and accelerates quicker. Champ cars attain higher top end speeds and require longer braking zones.

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> Hi > Yesterday I got my copy of Papyrus/Sierra CART Racing (=ICR2). > (Yes, yes, I know that the "modern" things are the 3D/voodoo games > F1RS and CPR, .... Still talking of the older ones ...) > When I now compare CART/ICR2 to the GP2 I've been using quite a while, > I have some some things to complain in CART: I think the SVGA graphics > there are much inferior to those of GP2! Why all the trackside objects > look so similiar to VGA version of the game? Cars and track look > better, though. > But still more important: the handling and behaviour of the car feels > much less "realistic" in CART. Are those cars rally that much > hevier? (Yes, I know that in reality they are about 200 kg hevier > than F1 cars.) But do you really have to slow down that much in the > corners of street- and motortracks? And do you have to start braking > that much earlier compared to F1 cars? > The reacting of the car feels much slower and heavier. > How well this difference really simulates the difference between > real CART and F1 cars? > Arto > PS I anyhow enjoy the CART Racing, too. It'll be very interesting > to practice the tracks before real races! And pity that all > 98' tracks are not incluced! > PS2 Perhaps also better setups could help to gain more "driving a > car"-feeling?

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> Hi > Yesterday I got my copy of Papyrus/Sierra CART Racing (=ICR2). > (Yes, yes, I know that the "modern" things are the 3D/voodoo games > F1RS and CPR, .... Still talking of the older ones ...) > When I now compare CART/ICR2 to the GP2 I've been using quite a while, > I have some some things to complain in CART: I think the SVGA graphics > there are much inferior to those of GP2! Why all the trackside objects > look so similiar to VGA version of the game? Cars and track look > better, though. > But still more important: the handling and behaviour of the car feels > much less "realistic" in CART. Are those cars rally that much > hevier? (Yes, I know that in reality they are about 200 kg hevier > than F1 cars.) But do you really have to slow down that much in the > corners of street- and motortracks? And do you have to start braking > that much earlier compared to F1 cars? > The reacting of the car feels much slower and heavier. > How well this difference really simulates the difference between > real CART and F1 cars? > Arto > PS I anyhow enjoy the CART Racing, too. It'll be very interesting > to practice the tracks before real races! And pity that all > 98' tracks are not incluced! > PS2 Perhaps also better setups could help to gain more "driving a > car"-feeling?

Most of what you say is about right. A couple of things though - 1/ 200kgs is a lot % wise. (assuming your right about the 200kg) 2/CART cars are a little longer for stability on the superspeedways and are thus less nimble than F1 cars thus cornering is slower. 3/Comparing ICR2 to GP2 NOW is unfair since on most computers these days, GP2 is actually close to being fully usable whereas ICR2 has pretty well always been. The price of the better graphics in GP2 came at the great expense of usability in the early days. Also, ICR2 has a rendition version. 4/Though GP2 is better in the car dynamics it is once again at the expense of gamespeed. ICR2 was by far the most balanced product. 5/ICR2 is a brilliant platform for internet competition compared to the joke that GP2 is. My opinion? Gp2 was a great hotlapper and a good look to the future. It was a little too far ahead of it's time. ICR2 was by far the better allround sim! Pity I only got it 6 months or so ago compared to getting GP2 as soon as it came out!

In defense of the graphics in Papyrus Indycar Racing II, keep in mind that it was written almost 3 years earlier than GP2. Also, keep in mind that ICRII CAN be played multiplayer without degredation of the framerate. GP2 is a peice of shit when played single player, with no ai cars. Get some Ai cars on the screen and it's a slideshow. Pathetic. As for trackside objects, at least if you see em in ICR II, they are moving, like their surroundings. Unlike GP2.

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> Yes, the CART Champ cars don't handle nearly as well as F1 cars. For >several reasons, but one of the biggest is the IRON brakes that Champ cars >run. When Paul Tracey tested an F1 car he had to watch the practice and >race to see the braking points. Then when he drove he had to force >himself to hold off braking well past his comfort zone. After saying that >tho..the new Penkse/Mercedes on it's first test at Silverstone >"reportedly" broke the F1 track record. Of course we don't know how high >the Merced turbo boost was and Silverstone is more suited to the Champ >cars with it's long straights but...generally,,, >F1 turns better, stops better and accelerates quicker. Champ cars attain >higher top end speeds and require longer braking zones. >> Hi >> Yesterday I got my copy of Papyrus/Sierra CART Racing (=ICR2). >> (Yes, yes, I know that the "modern" things are the 3D/voodoo games >> F1RS and CPR, .... Still talking of the older ones ...) >> When I now compare CART/ICR2 to the GP2 I've been using quite a while, >> I have some some things to complain in CART: I think the SVGA graphics >> there are much inferior to those of GP2! Why all the trackside objects >> look so similiar to VGA version of the game? Cars and track look >> better, though. >> But still more important: the handling and behaviour of the car feels >> much less "realistic" in CART. Are those cars rally that much >> hevier? (Yes, I know that in reality they are about 200 kg hevier >> than F1 cars.) But do you really have to slow down that much in the >> corners of street- and motortracks? And do you have to start braking >> that much earlier compared to F1 cars? >> The reacting of the car feels much slower and heavier. >> How well this difference really simulates the difference between >> real CART and F1 cars? >> Arto >> PS I anyhow enjoy the CART Racing, too. It'll be very interesting >> to practice the tracks before real races! And pity that all >> 98' tracks are not incluced! >> PS2 Perhaps also better setups could help to gain more "driving a >> car"-feeling?

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:58:33 -0500, "Phil Bower" >In defense of the graphics in Papyrus Indycar Racing II, keep in mind that >it was written almost 3 years earlier than GP2. Where do people get there timelines from?? ICR2 was released late (Oct/Nov) 95, GP2 was released Jul 96. 3 years? I think not! Cheers, Richard

Oh, yeah...Nov 17th...That was...er...<*mental calculation in progress*> 26 years ago next month! =) Cheers! Marc

[snip] : 2/CART cars are a little longer for stability on the superspeedways and : are thus less nimble than F1 cars thus cornering is slower. Actually, it's been since 1993/94 that Indycars used the superspeedway kits which lengthened their wheelbase. Reynard's kits' never altered wheelbase (94 was Reynard's first season), while Lola's which did were still used until 95. The road/street course wheelbase of Indycars are very comparable to F1 cars, they're off by mm's (it's been a couple of years since I've seen stats for F1 cars, but I doubt they've shortenend them any more). Afraid of starting/continuing the silly game of posturing "Which series is better" crap, the slight advantage of slow-medium cornering speed that an F1 car has over an IC is due to less weight and tire dimentions (and their different handling characteristics). Don't try to read into real world comparisons via a computer game. Yeah they're damn fun and hint at what happens, but as we all know each game is programed differently; these differences each have thier tradeoffs in terms of playability. GP2's physics make the cars handle easier than they would; the challange lies in different areas other than corner entry driving. ICR2/CART has the more challanging physics model for cornering, but lacks in other areas. __ (oO) Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fthagn /||\

EXCUSE ME???? JoH Please remove *anti-spam* from the email when replying. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> >In defense of the graphics in Papyrus Indycar Racing II, keep in mind that > >it was written almost 3 years earlier than GP2. > EXCUSE ME???? Hehehehehehe. Surely he meant months!