Slealth II or Pure3D as stopgap until Voodoo2?

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> Well, I've pretty much decided to get a 3D card now. This way I can > enjoy 3D games while I'm waiting for the Voodoo2. Here's the dilemma: > Stealth II or Canopus Pure3D? The Stealth II is cheaper (remember, this > is a temporary fix), and got good reviews as far as D3D games go, but do > I want to sacrifice the 2D from my Millennium (BTW, I have no idea how > the Millennium compares to current cards)? The Pure3D looks to be the > pick of the Voodoo litter, but costs $80 more than the Stealth II. Have > the other chipsets (in this case the Verite 2100) caught up with the > Voodoo to make them viable as a temporary fix until the Voodoo2 comes > out?

I'm not too up on prices, but 3dfx is the superior way to go, in both support and capability. Since you are looking for a stop-gap, why choose the Canopus? It's extra 2 MB aren't *that* important. My Monster cost me 98 (UK alert), and that was a while ago - if that is significantly cheaper than the Canopus and not far off the Stealth II, I should choose that one. Or any other cheap 4MB 3dfx cards; there are others which are OEM and don't come with bundled software, and so are much cheaper. Well that's my advice, for what it's worth, Rob

> > Well, I've pretty much decided to get a 3D card now. This way I can > > enjoy 3D games while I'm waiting for the Voodoo2. Here's the dilemma: > > Stealth II or Canopus Pure3D? The Stealth II is cheaper (remember, this > > is a temporary fix), and got good reviews as far as D3D games go, but do > > I want to sacrifice the 2D from my Millennium (BTW, I have no idea how > > the Millennium compares to current cards)? The Pure3D looks to be the > > pick of the Voodoo litter, but costs $80 more than the Stealth II. Have > > the other chipsets (in this case the Verite 2100) caught up with the > > Voodoo to make them viable as a temporary fix until the Voodoo2 comes > > out? Hi, I was also going to get a canopus or a monster then I decided this STB Velocity smokes fine for now and I will wait for V2. But when I was going to get it my final decision was with Monster even though I think the canopus is better here is why- The Diamond web site said they buy back the monster for 160 dollars I believe when you upgrade soooooooooo if that holds true for upgrading to a V2 well it might be a real good temp fix as you say and you wont lose your initial investment completely. Aloha, Mike

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> Hi, I was also going to get a canopus or a monster then I decided this STB > Velocity smokes fine for now and I will wait for V2. But when I was going > to get it my final decision was with Monster even though I think the > canopus is better here is why- The Diamond web site said they buy back the > monster for 160 dollars I believe when you upgrade soooooooooo if that > holds true for upgrading to a V2 well it might be a real good temp fix as > you say and you wont lose your initial investment completely. Aloha, Mike

Don't want to rain on your parade, but that $160 is the price to buy a Monster direct from Diamond when you trade in an old video card at the same time. It is not for an upgrade to Voodoo2. AFAIK, the only company offering a tradeup program from V1 to V2 is Quantum3D (the high-end V1 card maker).

Pure3D as a stopgap? What kind of bull is that. There is no better card than Pure3D. Except maybe that freaky dual Voodoo Obsidian ($600 or whatever).

Stealth II uses verite 2100. Its the best bet by a mile, it cost 1/2 the price of a RIVA card and since you are planning to change soon that would be a good investment. Not only that, but after checking the number of verite patches for games, you`ll be surprised, MANY games run on it patched so all you voodoo owners, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! Mike

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> Stealth II uses verite 2100. Its the best bet by a mile, it cost 1/2 the > price of a RIVA card and since you are planning to change soon that would > be a good investment. Not only that, but after checking the number of > verite patches for games, you`ll be surprised, MANY games run on it > patched so all you voodoo owners, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! > Mike

But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest "stop-gap" which will give him extensive support and superb performance is a 4MB Voodoo like the Diamond Monster - costs less than 100 over here. Rob

monster at 100 + VAT ! = 117 difference = 40 = 32 megs RAM now which is better? Mike

I think the stealth II.. :) -- _____________________________________________ Please visit my hardware/software web page at http://members.tripod.com/~FireEYE/index.html and tell everyone about it :) > > But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are > > incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest > > "stop-gap" which will give him extensive support and superb performance is a > > 4MB Voodoo like the Diamond Monster - costs less than 100 over here. > > Rob > monster at 100 + VAT ! = 117 > difference = 40 = 32 megs RAM > now which is better? > Mike

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd

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>> But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are >> incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest >> "stop-gap" which will give him extensive support and superb performance is a >> 4MB Voodoo like the Diamond Monster - costs less than 100 over here. >> Rob >monster at 100 + VAT ! = 117 >difference = 40 = 32 megs RAM >now which is better?

Compatibility is *the most important thing.* There are almost no 3D accelerated games that don't work on a Voodoo. There are far more 3D accelerated games that don't work on [name of chipset here]. Including Rendition. Cost savings are a red herring if you get done saving money and you still can't play Longbow 2 or NHL98, and those were the games you wanted to play. (The same is true of NASCAR2 and IndyCar2, the only two Verite-only games of note that I'm aware of, to be fair -- the only two released in more than a year, AFAIK). Voodoo is the only chipset that will run every 3D accelerated game with the performance and features the game designers intended. That statement can be made about no other chipset. Not even close. RichC *-------------To Reply via E-Mail-------------* Remove SPAMTRAP from the return address *---------------------------------------------*

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd stopgap until Voodoo2?"

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>monster at 100 + VAT ! = 117 >difference = 40 = 32 megs RAM >now which is better?

The Monster, obviously... if it runs the games you want to play and the Stealth 2 doesn't! Regards, JD

>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd >>> But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are >>> incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest >>> "stop-gap" which will give him extensive support and superb performance is a

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>>> 4MB Voodoo like the Diamond Monster - costs less than 100 over here. >>> Rob >>monster at 100 + VAT ! = 117 >>difference = 40 = 32 megs RAM >>now which is better? >Compatibility is *the most important thing.* There are almost no 3D >accelerated games that don't work on a Voodoo. There are far more 3D >accelerated games that don't work on [name of chipset here]. >Including Rendition.

This is not quite accurate. Almost all the new games seem to be coming out *enhanced* for voodoo. There are almost as many (mostly the same games) enhanced for Rendition Verite. But both cards are Direct3D compliant and almost every game out runs on both cards. There are no current direct3D accelerated games that dont work on both these cards. NHL98 is _not_ voodoo only. Also be aware that newer/popular Rendition Ready games include: Quake1, Quake2, Resident Evil, and Tomb Raider 1 and 2. There are quite a bit more games like Whiplash3D, Descent II: Destination Quartzon 3D (8-level version), MDK: Mission Laguna Beach (9-arena version), Scorched Planet WipeOut XL, EF2000, and more still. Also Rendition Verite runs OpenGL. Can't make that statement about Voodoo either. You can't run _every_ game with all the features the programmers intended because some games are written for specific chipsets.

The 3d accelerated version is. Just FYI here's a good compilation of what runs what. http://www.homeshopping.com.br/~oaks/ . This site doesn't touch on quality but it can still be used as a rough guide. By quality I mean both Verite and Riva can run Quake 2, but neither provide the image quality or speed of the Voodoo. -- ********************************************************************** Anti-Spam measures in place. Remove spam.this from my address to reply. Chris Villarreal

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> Stealth II uses verite 2100. Its the best bet by a mile, it cost 1/2 the > price of a RIVA card and since you are planning to change soon that would > be a good investment. Not only that, but after checking the number of > verite patches for games, you`ll be surprised, MANY games run on it > patched so all you voodoo owners, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! > Mike

Sorry Mike, you are in some need of facts yourself, you seem to make a number of false assumptions in your post. The Verite 2100 chipset is indeed much cheaper than any Riva 128 based card, but the original post was asking about 3dfx based cards versus the Verite card, not the big Riva which is manufactured by Nvidia (the chipset.) The Stealth II is actually a pretty good buy for Rendition acceleration and does a fair job at Direct3d. The one thing it will not do is make a lower end computer fly like a banshee. This can be said of the 3dfx based cards. They do make an older system really fly by taking some of the load of the main processor. Enough to even put off an upgrade for a little while. With the slew of software available for the 3dfx cards as well as the cheap available no-name cards the 3dfx Voodoo chipset is the only to go. I do in fact get my facts straight, I have run almost every major vid card available in one system or another for the last two and half years. Everthing from an old Diamond Stealth 64 2meg to an Intergraph 3D Pro 100 with 16megs o' ram. Actually, it's not as much fun as the new Quantum 3D Obsidian 100SB which has four 3dfx chips on the same board. I know my video cards, stick to the 3dfx, or better yet get both. All the best, Mike Davis -- Michael S. Davis Creative Media-Works Computer/Audio/Video Convergence "from Creative minds spring Creative solutions." http://www.creativemedia-works.com

Have you tried VQuake yet? Try it out and be surprised. GL quality quake but was out well before GLquake. The frame rate is great too. The only setback to VQuake is it not being supported by QuakeWorld so your multiplayer in Vquake mode is limited to regular Quake net play.

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>I got the Stealth II 220 for Christmas, and I love it. I too was caught >in the middle of whether to buy a Voodoo card which was what I wanted, >but with the new Voodoo2 cards coming out soon, I just bought the >Stealth II. The frame rates have jumped considerably in NASCAR 2, and >if I had known 3 months ago when I got my PC how good the rendition >version of NASCAR 2 looked, I would have bought this card to begin >with. CART Precision Racing looks somewhat better with it, ICR II looks >good, but I need to buy CART Racing to see the Rendition version. Jedi >Knight and MotoRacer look good, so basically I am happy with the Stealth >II. I plan on buying the new Voodoo 2 generation of Canopus cards, but >the Stealth is a good fix until they hit the shelves in March, in my >opinion >Dave Roland

On 10 Jan 1998 16:56:00 -0700, Chris Villarreal

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>Just FYI here's a good compilation of what runs what. >http://www.homeshopping.com.br/~oaks/ . This site doesn't touch on >quality but it can still be used as a rough guide. By quality I mean >both Verite and Riva can run Quake 2, but neither provide the image >quality or speed of the Voodoo. >-- >********************************************************************** >Anti-Spam measures in place. Remove spam.this from my address to reply. >Chris Villarreal

Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the V2x00's in Quake 2?

>This is not quite accurate. Almost all the new games seem to be coming out >*enhanced* for voodoo. There are almost as many (mostly the same games) >enhanced for Rendition Verite. But both cards are Direct3D compliant and >almost every game out runs on both cards. "Almost" is a slippery word. And an important one if the game you want to play is one of the missing ones, like Longbow2 or NHL98. >There are no current direct3D Irrelevant. Well, it's "enhanced" for Voodoo only, or at least it was when it was released. Both chipsets have a lot of games available. Voodoo has more, and more of them are native. That's just the truth. Can, too. <g> If there is no Glide version, you can bet there is no native version for any other chipset either (unless it's a promotional pack-in or something). Name one significant game released in the past six months for which there is a chipset-specific version, RRedline or otherwise, but *not* a Glide version too. And if the designer intended Direct 3D to be "all the features," then God help him... but the statement is still true. RichC *-------------To Reply via E-Mail-------------* Remove SPAMTRAP from the return address *---------------------------------------------*

I got the Stealth II 220 for Christmas, and I love it. I too was caught in the middle of whether to buy a Voodoo card which was what I wanted, but with the new Voodoo2 cards coming out soon, I just bought the Stealth II. The frame rates have jumped considerably in NASCAR 2, and if I had known 3 months ago when I got my PC how good the rendition version of NASCAR 2 looked, I would have bought this card to begin with. CART Precision Racing looks somewhat better with it, ICR II looks good, but I need to buy CART Racing to see the Rendition version. Jedi Knight and MotoRacer look good, so basically I am happy with the Stealth II. I plan on buying the new Voodoo 2 generation of Canopus cards, but the Stealth is a good fix until they hit the shelves in March, in my opinion Dave Roland

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> On 10 Jan 1998 16:56:00 -0700, Chris Villarreal > >Just FYI here's a good compilation of what runs what. > >http://www.homeshopping.com.br/~oaks/ . This site doesn't touch on > >quality but it can still be used as a rough guide. By quality I mean > >both Verite and Riva can run Quake 2, but neither provide the image > >quality or speed of the Voodoo. > >-- > >********************************************************************** > >Anti-Spam measures in place. Remove spam.this from my address to reply. > >Chris Villarreal > Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 > performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the > V2x00's in Quake 2?

From what I have read, the latest 3.10 patch still does not support the Verite properly (I believe colored lighting is missing). Look at the readme for the 3.10 patch. -- ********************************************************************** Anti-Spam measures in place. Remove spam.this from my address to reply. Chris Villarreal

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> > Stealth II uses verite 2100. Its the best bet by a mile, it cost 1/2 the > > price of a RIVA card and since you are planning to change soon that would > > be a good investment. Not only that, but after checking the number of > > verite patches for games, you`ll be surprised, MANY games run on it > > patched so all you voodoo owners, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! > you are in some need of facts yourself, you seem to make a number of > false assumptions in your post. The Verite 2100 chipset is indeed much > cheaper than any Riva 128 based card, but the original post was asking > about 3dfx based cards versus the Verite card, not the big Riva which is > manufactured by Nvidia (the chipset.)

I didn`t assume anything, someone mentioned a RIVA card earlier on! don`t talk crap... more crap.... contradiction in terms? not as cheap as stealth II wow ! get both 3dfx+ stealth? but then the Stealth II will not process 3d stuff in windoze unless you fart about with some 3rd party utils.' I know my video cards' do you? no hard feelings, but if you want the ultimate solution get a millenium II and a voodoo. Also I believe you need some reading lessons too, it says 'Stopgap' in the header, not ' ultimate 3d solution for loads of money $$' Also you leave the topic yourself, he asked about the pure3d and the stealth II, nothing else. mike

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> > Have you tried VQuake yet? Try it out and be surprised. GL quality quake > > but was out well before GLquake. The frame rate is great too. The only > > setback to VQuake is it not being supported by QuakeWorld so your > > multiplayer in Vquake mode is limited to regular Quake net play. > Quake is the most pitiful game I have ever seen!!!!!!! Irrespective > of graphics card!!!!!!!!

I AGREE 100%! Quake is the worst 3D game ever (maybe worst of ALL games) Quake2 is good though , maybe you might enjjoy my review of quake on my web page... :) _____________________________________________ Please visit my hardware/software web page at http://members.tripod.com/~FireEYE/index.html and tell everyone about it :)

Right, whatever you say Byron. > Quake is the most pitiful game I have ever seen!!!!!!! Irrespective >of graphics card!!!!!!!!

> Have you tried VQuake yet? Try it out and be surprised. GL quality quake > but was out well before GLquake. The frame rate is great too. The only > setback to VQuake is it not being supported by QuakeWorld so your > multiplayer in Vquake mode is limited to regular Quake net play. Quake is the most pitiful game I have ever seen!!!!!!! Irrespective of graphics card!!!!!!!!

I have to disagree with that.. the V2200 using the V2K native Open-GL miniport (not a D3D wrapper or V1K OGL miniport) is just about as fast as a 3DFX, the rendering quality is actually better.. Check http://www.planetquake.com/gldojo/ and go to the news archive for 12/28/97 -- -=Atomic Skull=- See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

Native support for any card is unusual.. Most games support D3D. Many so called "3DFX games" are actually D3D. -- -=Atomic Skull=- See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

Rare? 3Dfx has native GLIDE support for over 70 games. I would hardly call that rare. And that support is increasing!! Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove ".spam" from the end my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

> > But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are > >incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest > Native support for any card is unusual.. Most games support D3D. Many so > called "3DFX games" are actually D3D. And many are not.

Where do you get your info? Many more so called "3Dfx games" are actually... (dramatic pause) Native 3Dfx (GLIDE) games. Over 70 actual GLIDE games. Numbers dont lie. Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove ".spam" from the end my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

Tou read this, or just heard it? Tomb Raider II already supports D3D.. -- -=Atomic Skull=- See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

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>On 10 Jan 1998 16:56:00 -0700, Chris Villarreal >>Just FYI here's a good compilation of what runs what. >>http://www.homeshopping.com.br/~oaks/ . This site doesn't touch on >>quality but it can still be used as a rough guide. By quality I mean >>both Verite and Riva can run Quake 2, but neither provide the image >>quality or speed of the Voodoo. >>-- >>********************************************************************** >>Anti-Spam measures in place. Remove spam.this from my address to reply. >>Chris Villarreal >Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 >performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the >V2x00's in Quake 2?

Coloured lights dude.

>> But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are >>incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest > Native support for any card is unusual.. Most games support D3D. Many so >called "3DFX games" are actually D3D. I seem to recall reading on a web site that 3dfx voodoo chipset is the _only_ chipset on the market that supports _every_ feature built into Direct3D. Also keep in mind that nearly every new "direct3D" title out and coming out, also has a Glide (3dfx) version.

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> >> But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games > are > >>incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest > > Native support for any card is unusual.. Most games support D3D. Many so > >called "3DFX games" are actually D3D. > I seem to recall reading on a web site that 3dfx voodoo chipset is the > _only_ chipset on the market that supports _every_ feature built into > Direct3D. > Also keep in mind that nearly every new "direct3D" title out and coming out, > also has a Glide (3dfx) version. > >-- > > -=Atomic Skull=- > > See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

Dunno what everyone else has been saying, but my two cents: GET THE PURE 3D!! The Heavy Gear patch makes the explosions look sooooooooo nice with the extra 2 megs of texture memory. If you play heavy gear -- you MUST get the Pure 3d (of course, the Stealth is cheaper...) -c -- ************************************** Remove NOSPAM from address to reply **************************************

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> >>>Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 > >>>performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the > >>>V2x00's in Quake 2? > >>Coloured lights dude. > >No. GLQuake 2 on the Stealth II has colored lighting. > It's also nearly as fast as on a 3DFX.. (benchmarks show the 3DFX to still > have an advantage in speed though) > -- > -=Atomic Skull=- > See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

I would say, don't duplicate if you plan on a voodooII. the stealth V2100 verite will accellerate NascarII, where there is no 3dfx support. Latter, the voodooII would cover the other end of the spectrum, and shouls, with both cards, be able to acellerate any game, as your have Glide, speedy3d,RRedline,and D3D support between the cards. And of course, openGL. It would make less since to buy a 3dfx card now just to replace it later with a VoodooII. The stealth will supply the 2D graphics as well.

Yes the colored lighting is a biggie, but there were some comparision shots on the rendition newsgroup and the VQuake had much more detail in the chracters...Clearer and with more definition, and that was compared with the proper way to get a screen dump in glQuake so the screenshot gets reduced in detail,(ie.the Voodoo shot was as good as it supposed to get) BUT...having said that, a still screen shot does not compare frame rate and or special effects, but what it did show...was that the V2100 running Quake can produce a superior picture[again, at this point in time, without colored lighting] Finally the V2100 can run GL Quake as well...can Voodoo run V Quake??dave henrie

>>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd BLAH BLAH Really? Are there other chipsets out that support Glide? Maybe I'm out of the loop or something.

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> >> But is it 1/2 the price of a Voodoo? And how many of the verite games are > >>incapable of using the Voodoo? He already has a 2D card; the cheapest > > Native support for any card is unusual.. Most games support D3D. Many so > >called "3DFX games" are actually D3D. > Where do you get your info? > Many more so called "3Dfx games" are actually... (dramatic pause) > Native 3Dfx (GLIDE) games. > Over 70 actual GLIDE games. Numbers dont lie. > Marc. > -------- > To replay via e-mail, remove ".spam" from the end > my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

Also the D3D games out there must be written to cover the features of only a few chip sets. The rest of the cards get by only imitating the features which they can't do (for example if you've got a S3 Virge, it can't imitate Mip mapping very well ) . If they went around writing D3D to cover all the features of all the chip sets, then what the point of having D3D, the whole idea is to introduce a standard ala Win95, PnP etc. With Microsoft's alliance with SGI and Intel's with 3Dfx I guarantee that the Voodoo will be the closest thing to the 'standard' that you can get and when voodoo2 comes out it will initially be like AGP, a good idea but not quite ready and no one will support it (I know that its supposed to be backwardsly compatible(?) with the voodoo chip but you still need bug free drivers to get the thing going). So even if the game is written to use D3D and not a native library, I still guarantee that it will look a lot better on a voodoo board than anything else because many of the other boards do not natively support those features used in D3D.

>>Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 >>performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the >>V2x00's in Quake 2? >Coloured lights dude. No. GLQuake 2 on the Stealth II has colored lighting.

No colored lights in Quake2 running on a V2K huh? Guess the colored lights I'm seeing must be LSD in the water :) Seriously, the V2K's native Open-GL miniport _does_ do colored lights. the only reason it wouldn't is if you're using the V1K Open-GL driver, or a D3D wrapper.. -- -=Atomic Skull=- See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

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>>>Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 >>>performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the >>>V2x00's in Quake 2? >>Coloured lights dude. >No. GLQuake 2 on the Stealth II has colored lighting.

It's also nearly as fast as on a 3DFX.. (benchmarks show the 3DFX to still have an advantage in speed though) -- -=Atomic Skull=- See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1

snip

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> Yes the colored lighting is a biggie, but there were some comparision shots > on the rendition newsgroup and the VQuake had much more detail in the > chracters...Clearer and with more definition, and that was compared with the > proper way to get a screen dump in glQuake so the screenshot gets reduced in > detail,(ie.the Voodoo shot was as good as it supposed to get) BUT...having > said that, a still screen shot does not compare frame rate and or special > effects, but what it did show...was that the V2100 running Quake can produce > a superior picture[again, at this point in time, without colored lighting] > Finally the V2100 can run GL Quake as well...can Voodoo run V Quake??dave > henrie

Now that's a silly question like: can V2100 run a Glide game? l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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>>>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd >BLAH BLAH >> NHL98 is _not_ voodoo only. >>>RichC >Really? Are there other chipsets out that support Glide? Maybe I'm out of >the loop or something.

Please be careful, when cutting and pasting, to keep who wrote what straight. There is nothing in the above that I actually wrote. (I was the one saying that NHL98 *is* Glide-only). Thanks. RichC _______________________________________________________ Please delete SPAMTRAP from any of the addresses below to reply:

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>Subject: Re: Slealth II or Pure3D as stopgap until Voodoo2? >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:27:30 -0800 >> >Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 >> >performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the >> >V2x00's in Quake 2? >> Coloured lights dude. > Yes the colored lighting is a biggie, but there were some comparision shots >on the rendition newsgroup and the VQuake had much more detail in the >chracters...Clearer and with more definition, and that was compared with the >proper way to get a screen dump in glQuake so the screenshot gets reduced in >detail,(ie.the Voodoo shot was as good as it supposed to get) BUT...having >said that, a still screen shot does not compare frame rate and or special >effects, but what it did show...was that the V2100 running Quake can produce >a superior picture[again, at this point in time, without colored lighting] >Finally the V2100 can run GL Quake as well...can Voodoo run V Quake??dave >henrie

Why would anyone want to downgrade to run V Quake???

Heavy Gear runs great on the Stealth II as well. The explosions are rendered correctly without the need for 4 mb of texture memory.

welll......I am merely the reporter not the originator of the argument. With 3 pictures from QuakeII(I think) placed side by side, the VQuake: 1: had much more detail 2. Had a clearer image 3. equal background lighting in the static shot Without actually comparing them, the picture gave the impression that the Verite cards can produce a more detailed cleaner image. As to why anyone choose which version to play I can't say...:)

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> >Subject: Re: Slealth II or Pure3D as stopgap until Voodoo2? > >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:27:30 -0800 > >> >Please elaborate. I know that the Voodoo is the fastest Quake 2 > >> >performer, but how is the Voodoo's image quality superior to the > >> >V2x00's in Quake 2? > >> Coloured lights dude. > > Yes the colored lighting is a biggie, but there were some comparision shots > >on the rendition newsgroup and the VQuake had much more detail in the > >chracters...Clearer and with more definition, and that was compared with the > >proper way to get a screen dump in glQuake so the screenshot gets reduced in > >detail,(ie.the Voodoo shot was as good as it supposed to get) BUT...having > >said that, a still screen shot does not compare frame rate and or special > >effects, but what it did show...was that the V2100 running Quake can produce > >a superior picture[again, at this point in time, without colored lighting] > >Finally the V2100 can run GL Quake as well...can Voodoo run V Quake??dave > >henrie > Why would anyone want to downgrade to run V Quake???

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>>>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd >BLAH BLAH >> NHL98 is _not_ voodoo only. >>>RichC >Really? Are there other chipsets out that support Glide? Maybe I'm out of >the loop or something.

Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a freakin Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo!

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> welll......I am merely the reporter not the originator of the argument. With 3 pictures from > QuakeII(I think) placed side by side, the VQuake: > 1: had much more detail > 2. Had a clearer image > 3. equal background lighting in the static shot > Without actually comparing them, the picture gave the impression that the Verite cards can > produce a more detailed cleaner image. As to why anyone choose which version to play I can't > say...:)

It's true that Quake II looks a bit sweeter on Rendition V2x00. However, I found you can get a similar effect on Voodoo cards by putting this line in your batch file to launch the game; SET SST_VIDEO_FILTER_DISABLE=1 You see some artifacts but overall I prefer the extra detail, you like like to try it. -- http://www.zdnet.com/pcgwuk/

>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a freakin >Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! Oh boy, are you ever misinformed !! NHL'98 is GLIDE only, unless you want to play it without 3D acceleration. NHL'98 DOESN'T support Direct3D, and is a 3Dfx Glide based game. If you dont have a 3Dfx card, you cannot run it 3D accelerated and will have to run it in software. Check the box, the only 3D card it lists is 3Dfx, and it even states the Glide version number needed. Get your facts straight. Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove ".spam" from the end my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

A fellow named Eduardo has posted on the video ng a games compatability table. He also has a web page that has the table (http://www.homeshopping.com.br/~oaks/). It is very useful in determining which chipset has the most support and the clear hands-down winner is 3dfx (as of today). Of course, that may change in the future, but my bet is that it won't. Regards, Juardis T. says... > >You definitely want the Canopus Pure 3D 3Dfx over the Stealth 2. > >It supports Voodoo Graphics (3Dfx), whereas the Stealth 2 does not. > >Most of the current flight sims require Voodoo graphics, and not the Verite > >2200 standard supported by the Stealth 2. > Err, most 3D games are supporting D3D, native support for _any_ card is > rare.

Looking at that web page indicates to me that D3D has the most titles (scary thought isnt it). However 3DFX is ahead of Rendition in numbers. Scott > It is very useful in determining > which chipset has the most support and the clear hands-down winner is 3dfx > (as of today). Of course, that may change in the future, but my bet is > that it won't. > Regards, Juardis T. -- /////////////////////////////////////////// // // // Scott B. Husted // // // // http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted // // // // // // // ///////////////////////////////////////////

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> >Dunno what everyone else has been saying, but my two cents: > >GET THE PURE 3D!! The Heavy Gear patch makes the explosions look > >sooooooooo nice with the extra 2 megs of texture memory. If you play > >heavy gear -- you MUST get the Pure 3d (of course, the Stealth is > >cheaper...) > Heavy Gear runs great on the Stealth II as well. The explosions are > rendered correctly without the need for 4 mb of texture memory.

With 4 megs dedicated to Texture memory alone (not shared w/Frame buffer like on the Stealth220) you get BETTER explosions, not just "correct". Ty

>>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a freakin

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>>Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! >Oh boy, are you ever misinformed !! >NHL'98 is GLIDE only, unless you want to play it without 3D >acceleration. >NHL'98 DOESN'T support Direct3D, and is a 3Dfx Glide based game. If >you dont have a 3Dfx card, you cannot run it 3D accelerated and will >have to run it in software. >Check the box, the only 3D card it lists is 3Dfx, and it even states >the Glide version number needed. >Get your facts straight. >Marc.

Here we go again. Can the game be played without a 3dfx voodoo card? You tell me what the MINIMUM requirements for the game are. SVGA video card and DirectX5. Recommended 3dfx voodoo. Did I ever once say anything about 3D accelerated mode? No I sure didnt. All I said was NHL98 doesnt _REQUIRE_ a 3dfx voodoo card. Hey I wouldnt play it without a 3dfx voodoo card but it will run without it. So, looks like the one who needs to straighten his facts is you.

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>> >Dunno what everyone else has been saying, but my two cents: >> >GET THE PURE 3D!! The Heavy Gear patch makes the explosions look >> >sooooooooo nice with the extra 2 megs of texture memory. If you play >> >heavy gear -- you MUST get the Pure 3d (of course, the Stealth is >> >cheaper...) >> Heavy Gear runs great on the Stealth II as well. The explosions are >> rendered correctly without the need for 4 mb of texture memory. >With 4 megs dedicated to Texture memory alone (not shared w/Frame buffer >like on the Stealth220) you get BETTER explosions, not just "correct". >Ty

How are they better?

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>>>>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:03:08 +0000, mikal todd >>BLAH BLAH >>> NHL98 is _not_ voodoo only. >>>>RichC >>Really? Are there other chipsets out that support Glide? Maybe I'm out of >>the loop or something. >Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a freakin >Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo!

No, but I thought this thread was about games that could only run 3D accelerated on a Voodoo. Quite a few of those games. Very few games that won't run at least in software without a Voodoo. Greg

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> >>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a > freakin > >>Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! > >NHL'98 DOESN'T support Direct3D, and is a 3Dfx Glide based game. If > >you dont have a 3Dfx card, you cannot run it 3D accelerated and will > >have to run it in software. > >Marc. > Here we go again. Can the game be played without a 3dfx voodoo card? You > tell me what the MINIMUM requirements for the game are. SVGA video card and > DirectX5. Recommended 3dfx voodoo. Did I ever once say anything about 3D > accelerated mode? No I sure didnt. All I said was NHL98 doesnt _REQUIRE_ a > 3dfx voodoo card. Hey I wouldnt play it without a 3dfx voodoo card but it > will run without it. So, looks like the one who needs to straighten his > facts is you.

You said it is a Direct3D game, not that it is a DirectX game. Direct3D is a PART of DirectX, which allows hardware acceleration - it is NOT supported by NHL. NHL IS a DirectX game - all Win 95 native games use Direct X. This is what is causing the confusion. Rob

>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a freakin >Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! It's not a Direct3D game. It uses other parts of DirectX (for sound, input device support, etc.), but for 3D hardware acceleration it uses Glide, and requires a Voodoo. See EA's website for more EA games that are 3D accelerated only with Voodoo cards. RichC *-------------To Reply via E-Mail-------------* Remove SPAMTRAP from the return address *---------------------------------------------*

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> Right, whatever you say Byron. > > Quake is the most pitiful game I have ever seen!!!!!!! Irrespective > >of graphics card!!!!!!!!

Hehehehehehehe. Sorry, it's just not my kinda thing and I really don't care to see it cross posted in rec.auto.simulaters

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>>>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a >freakin >>>Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! >>NHL'98 DOESN'T support Direct3D, and is a 3Dfx Glide based game. If >>you dont have a 3Dfx card, you cannot run it 3D accelerated and will >>have to run it in software. >>Get your facts straight. >>Marc. >Here we go again. Can the game be played without a 3dfx voodoo card? You >tell me what the MINIMUM requirements for the game are. SVGA video card and >DirectX5. Recommended 3dfx voodoo. Did I ever once say anything about 3D >accelerated mode? No I sure didnt. All I said was NHL98 doesnt _REQUIRE_ a >3dfx voodoo card. Hey I wouldnt play it without a 3dfx voodoo card but it >will run without it. So, looks like the one who needs to straighten his >facts is you.

Well, actually, if you reread your own post above, you said it was a Direct3D game. That implies it can indeed by accelerated by just about any 3D accelerator. ---------- Burnnn

> >>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a > freakin > >>Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! Here you call it a D3D game. Wrong. It IS Glide though you can play it WITHOUT hardware acceleration as well. The above is what Marc stated. He's correct. He then goes on to say the following, which afaik is correct: Apparently so. Yes, but again other than Voodoo cards, NOT accelerated. Ok. Yes you did, when you called it a D3D game. See above. <SNIP> Ty

> >With 4 megs dedicated to Texture memory alone (not shared w/Frame buffer > >like on the Stealth220) you get BETTER explosions, not just "correct". > How are they better? Beats the hell outta me. ;) I don't have Heavy Gear. This is what Activision mentioned in a little blurb near the link for the patch. Ty

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>>>>Really? Is NHL98 Glide _only_? Whats that? Did I hear a NO? It's a >>freakin >>>>Direct3D game. Runs best with voodoo but does not _REQUIRE_ voodoo! >>>NHL'98 DOESN'T support Direct3D, and is a 3Dfx Glide based game. If >>>you dont have a 3Dfx card, you cannot run it 3D accelerated and will >>>have to run it in software. >>>Get your facts straight. >>>Marc. >>Here we go again. Can the game be played without a 3dfx voodoo card? You >>tell me what the MINIMUM requirements for the game are. SVGA video card

and >>DirectX5. Recommended 3dfx voodoo. Did I ever once say anything about 3D >>accelerated mode? No I sure didnt. All I said was NHL98 doesnt _REQUIRE_ a

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>>3dfx voodoo card. Hey I wouldnt play it without a 3dfx voodoo card but it >>will run without it. So, looks like the one who needs to straighten his >>facts is you. >Well, actually, if you reread your own post above, you said it was a >Direct3D game. That implies it can indeed by accelerated by just >about any 3D accelerator. >---------- >Burnnn

Yes I know. It was me who said it.

Marc is correct. Most 3DFX games use the Glide libraries, not Direct3D... and one or two of those 70 games actually support the Voodoo ___RUSH__ chipset. If they were just Direct3D games, I'd have 3D accelleration (via direct3D) with all 70 instead of just a couple, so it's not the numbers that lie, it's the little hardware support logos the game venddors put on the boxes. :-) -- http://www.qnx.com/~pete "E Unibus Plurum "