F1RS LEAVES ME COLD ...........Here's why.....

> HOW THE HELL CAN UBISOFT CALL THIS A SIMULATION IS BEYOND ME !!!!!!!!! Because it is a simulation, maybe? You've got too much time on your hands ;) 'Totally inaccurate' is a bit strong. They are reasonable approximations, although why some tracks have elevation changes and some don't where you'd expect them is a mystery. I consider myself a sim enthusiast, rather than expert. I prefer sims to arcade, but don't go down to the level that some do - I've never bothered to look at telemetry on any sim yet. I've not timed this, but I don't know how long it would take a Renault (the guys who had a hand in the game) F1 engine to go from idle to 17,500. Bet it's pretty quick. Not having driven a top line open wheel race car I can't vouch for accuracy, but I like the feel of it more than any other attempt (GP2, ICR2, MSCPR) so far. Maybe GP2 had better wheelspin, but that's all. I'm using a T2. Have you tried it with a wheel? A lot less harsh than GP2, though, so we're getting there. Then again, not having tried F1 for real, maybe you've just got to be one of the best drivers in the world to manage it... Well, it slows you down. I reckon it's just a method of stopping short-cutting. It's a bit of a shame, as all of the crud on your tyres is a big enough deterrent for me. It's probably the biggest (driving) flaw in the game. Give me titles. It's not too bad. If it's not as good as GP2, N2 or ICR2 it's a HELL of a lot better as a first attempt than MSCPR. What about Psygnosis F1. Did you try that? The tracks were (apparently) hyper accurate (so it must have been a sim <g>!), but the AI was really just A. It stank. It's bad, but not the worst (Psyg F1, TOCA). Horses for courses, I guess. Okey dokey. It's just a sim. You can not expect a 100 percent accurate representation of F1 for the price of 2 videos. For starters it'd be undrivable. What I get out of these things is a knowledge of the tracks (roughly) and an approximation of the technical ability required to get these ultra-high-performance vehicles around a circuit. That, and some fun just _racing_. It really enhances my enjoyment of the real thing. If this is Ubi's first attempt, imagine what F1RS2 will be like. I'm drooling already... All the best Mark Reading, UK

snip You've got a different game... ;^) l8er ronny -- |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I've had this game or so called 'sim' for two weeks now and have come to the following conclusion: HOW THE HELL CAN UBISOFT CALL THIS A SIMULATION IS BEYOND ME !!!!!!!!! After observing all 16 tracks on video and taking down notes it's of the game against the real thing i came up with these things : These tracks are totally inaccurate : Suzuka .......where's the undulations ? San Marino ..........Is totally out of proportion....what a joke ! Monaco.............Is totally inaccurate and way too tight ! Canada...........Is not totally flat like a pancake ! Silverstone...........Is not flat either ! Hockenheim ...........The chicanes are totally inaccurate...! Hungary.............Where's the undulations and blind turn ? Monza.............The Lesmos turns are way too narrow and rumble strips a are not correctly angled ....that's why you can't take fast turns around there.......it's friggin incorrect ! Belgium..........the turns and chicanes are out wack ! Also i've found that the tracks are not proportonal to the speed of F1 cars.............Maybe that is why Ubi made the cars accelerate from zero to 17,500 revs in less than 1/4 second.........What nonsense ! Also the handling and balance of the Ubi model leaves me cold...! Rumble strips that throw you way out of line totally stupid ! As soon as you touch the grass is sends you out of control....are they serious ? What about Villeneuve's victory in Hungary ...going onto grass to overtake Hill ? Artificial intelligence of worst arcade sim that i have seen ! Menu system that a 7 year old schoolboy could have done better ! Am i running the same sim as everybody else or have i got different game... Comments welcome ........ Cheers Chatham,

Are you an F1 racing driver? How else can you judge this so criticaly. You must have at least driven these circuits to know so much about them. Me, I love this game. Best racing sim written so far. So which sim is good enough for your high standards? If an F1 driver or someone asociated with the sport made these criticisms, I would take them seriously. IMO, you have too much time on your hands and are talking out your arse. Scott Andrews

They're a little inaccurate, but far from "totally", be fair. In what way...? I take it you've never heard an F1 engine being revved then? Believe me, they really do hit peak revs in an unbelievably short time, certainly well under a second. If you ever go to a Grand Prix, listen to the engines being fired up in the pits before heading out to the grid (you don't need to be anywhere close!) - the sound of Alesi's V12 Ferrari being revved in the pits was a glory to behold. Of course. If you keep the power down you've got one side of your car gripping strongly and the other side struggling to put 800hp down onto grass - hardly surprising that you spin. The same with braking - if you put one side of your car onto the grass under braking you are GONE. What about Verstappen touching the grass at Interlagos? As soon as his wheels touched the grass he spun (the accident that got Irvine a wrist-slapping). Worse than CPR? Worse than Screamer Rally? If you're going to have people take you seriously then you should make reasoned and serious comments. Okay, that's probably about right...! Cheers! John

Chatham, I think this is a little strong. There are obviously some things that are noticeable. I noticed that Suzuka seemed flatter than expected, but not having ever driven there, it's difficult to say. TV pictures tend to foreshorten images, and can give a distorted view. Having spent many years watching TV coverage of races at Oulton Park in the UK, and then going there in person on a number of occasions, I was amazed at how unprepared I was when I actually drove the circuit. I could have drawn the outline of the track with my eyes shut, but even walking around it doesn't give the same impression as actually driving ON it. cars.............Maybe that is why Ubi made the cars accelerate from zero to 17,500 revs in less than 1/4 second.........What nonsense !<< Certainly in 1st gear, it's terribly easy to get the car to spin it's wheels, but I suspect that this is likely to be quite accurate. I've never driven an F1 car, but I've driven road cars that were powerful enough to go straight into wheel-spin if you floor it in first gear. I'm suprised by this. I thought GP2 was the best I had encountered. It has precision which I feel is lacking in the Papyrus sims, but the problems of the perpetual spin (a spin that can be stopped, but then re-starts when you take your foot off brake), and also the revs dying, rather than allowing one to perform do-nuts, still made it apparent that it wasn't completely 'there'. I feel the F1RS physics are very good. The car is responsive, and controllable even under power-slides which I find rare in a sim. In many sims the power-slide is either too easy to control, or results in wild spins. Not sure exactly which strips you are referring to, but the point is that these strips (in real life) have quite large bumps on them. They do throw the car out of line, and it's the skill required to pre-empt the sudden changes of direction that distinguishes between the good and the mediocre. serious ? << Well I am when I say that this isn't my experience. I would say that the speed retardation effect of the grass, (and the track if you are sideways) is a little exagerated. But the car does get 'out of control' if I touch the grass. Get on it completely, and things are a little different. When I went t a driving school they told me this, "there's the black stuff, and there's the green stuff, you go faster on the green stuff, but you are just a passenger..." I have to say that I think the AI is very good. The CCs are a little slow out of tight bends, but other than that I'd be interested in what specific criticisms you have. Yes, this is a little tiresome, but it is a criticism that can be levied at many/most driving sims. Ditto. Cheers, Steve.

I don't have enough knowledge to judge the tracks, but they all seem to "flat" to me. So I'll assume your report is accurate. Wheel spin is a problem in F1RS. Seems way over done to me. The feeling of "speed" seems fine to me though. I don't have this problem. Don't have this problem either. (running with all realstic options on) No way, check out CART. I have no problem with the AI, and thought it was pretty well done. Menu system is by far the worst I've even seen. Once you get used to it though, it isn't quite as bad. Having to reload the setup all the time needs fixed though. Replays need alot of work as well. Andy Andy Please use address below for all email replies

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>> HOW THE HELL CAN UBISOFT CALL THIS A SIMULATION IS BEYOND ME !!!!!!!!! >Are you an F1 racing driver? How else can you judge this so criticaly. You >must have at least driven these circuits to know so much about them. >Me, I love this game. Best racing sim written so far. So which sim is good >enough for your high standards? >If an F1 driver or someone asociated with the sport made these criticisms, >I would take them seriously. IMO, you have too much time on your hands and >are talking out your arse.

Scott, you think a real F1 driver would waste his time with something like F1RS? Come on! Gimme a break. Dave. PS ICR2 4ever :P -- David Kadlcak http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Papyrus Racing Organization http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/pro Laurin & Klement Racing http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/lkr.html IndyCar Racing II page http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/icr2.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurin & Klement Racing: PRO95 Teams Champion!!!

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>> HOW THE HELL CAN UBISOFT CALL THIS A SIMULATION IS BEYOND ME !!!!!!!!! >Are you an F1 racing driver? How else can you judge this so criticaly. You >must have at least driven these circuits to know so much about them. >Me, I love this game. Best racing sim written so far. So which sim is good >enough for your high standards? >If an F1 driver or someone asociated with the sport made these criticisms, >I would take them seriously. IMO, you have too much time on your hands and >are talking out your arse.

Scott, do you really believe that a F1 driver would waste his time with something like F1RS? Think about it... l8r, Dave. P.S. ICR2 4ever :P -- David Kadlcak http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Papyrus Racing Organization http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/pro Laurin & Klement Racing http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/lkr.html IndyCar Racing II page http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/icr2.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurin & Klement Racing: PRO95 Teams Champion!!!

Hi Steve, I agree totally here - it's all down to car setup, which we know is down to personal preference. If you want to eat rumble strip, you have to set up for it :-) JB.

I haven't noticed (or am not bothered by) any of the problems the original poster mentioned...umm, except the menu system. This is pretty lame, especially in comparison to CPR's excellent UI. On the other hand, CPR's AI makes F1RS' look like a reincarnated (and digitized) Ayrton Senna! I continue to really enjoy F1RS, but here are my nits: Da Graphics: I go back and forth on these... At times, I think they're excellent. Monaco looks great and the wet weather driving (with the mist, the tire spray, and even the glowing tail lights) is simply stunning! Yet, at times I feel the graphics are a bit cartoonish - too colorful or something. I can't quite put my finger on it. The animation of the pit crew is also a bit inferior to that of CPR, though admittedly, this is just icing on the cake of two great sims. Da Speed: What IS relevant to a racing sim is the feeling of speed. I have a system that can run either game just fine with graphics maxed. Relative to other sims, F1 just doesn't make me feel like I'm flying! I was taking a turn at Monza the other day... I usually focus more on the tach and my line, but I glanced at the speedometer: 100+ MPH! It felt like I was going 20-30! CPR, on the other hand, can make me sweat on an empty track! I think it may be the chassis vibration: when you're smoking in CPR, the dash is often ***ly vibrating just like you see in videos (I'd love it if they could model this in force feedback - I don't believe they do, but this effect is still the only thing that has made me seriously consider one of the forthcoming FF wheels). F1 gives me the feeling my car is moving slowly on smooth rails. Regardless, I think both sims are great additions to the field and show great progress in accurately simulating driving (once they patch CPR). To the future and the perfect racing sim... Sean

I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own F1RS. --- Jon Petersson Support Sarah-K and the rasf1 car! http://user.tninet.se/~rdv654m/Jon.html user:rasf1 password:gogirl

Yet, Man you took my exact words I love both sims but since turning off the sky in F1 its better now but......... cartoonish was my exact description.And I also love the pit crew in CPR F1 gives me the feeling my car is moving slowly on Once again my exact same feelings speed wise! This is really the main point though as race sim drivers we are very fortunate to have both these sims! Aloha, Mike

Sorry to get off of F1rs, but I am glad you mentioned the***pit shaking in cpr. I noticed it a while back and just thought I had been playing the game too long. That is a cool feature.

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> I haven't noticed (or am not bothered by) any of the problems the original > poster mentioned...umm, except the menu system. This is pretty lame, > especially in comparison to CPR's excellent UI. On the other hand, CPR's AI > makes F1RS' look like a reincarnated (and digitized) Ayrton Senna! > I continue to really enjoy F1RS, but here are my nits: > Da Graphics: I go back and forth on these... At times, I think they're > excellent. Monaco looks great and the wet weather driving (with the mist, > the tire spray, and even the glowing tail lights) is simply stunning! Yet, > at times I feel the graphics are a bit cartoonish - too colorful or > something. I can't quite put my finger on it. The animation of the pit crew > is also a bit inferior to that of CPR, though admittedly, this is just icing > on the cake of two great sims. > Da Speed: What IS relevant to a racing sim is the feeling of speed. I have a > system that can run either game just fine with graphics maxed. Relative to > other sims, F1 just doesn't make me feel like I'm flying! I was taking a > turn at Monza the other day... I usually focus more on the tach and my line, > but I glanced at the speedometer: 100+ MPH! It felt like I was going 20-30! > CPR, on the other hand, can make me sweat on an empty track! I think it may > be the chassis vibration: when you're smoking in CPR, the dash is often > ***ly vibrating just like you see in videos (I'd love it if they could > model this in force feedback - I don't believe they do, but this effect is > still the only thing that has made me seriously consider one of the > forthcoming FF wheels). F1 gives me the feeling my car is moving slowly on > smooth rails. > Regardless, I think both sims are great additions to the field and show great > progress in accurately simulating driving (once they patch CPR). To the > future and the perfect racing sim... > Sean

-- Thank you Marc Johnson

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> > Scott, you think a real F1 driver would waste his time with > >something like F1RS? Come on! Gimme a break. > I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own > F1RS. > --- > Jon Petersson Support Sarah-K and the rasf1 car! > http://user.tninet.se/~rdv654m/Jon.html user:rasf1 password:gogirl > J. Villeneuve did try out F1RS at COMDEX Ubisoft site in November and

said it was good. You wouldn't really expect him to say anything else really. I know he does use GP2 and has said it helped him win at Spa and Hungary in 1996. He said that he could never win on GP2 in Hungary and 5 th was the best he could finish. His record in GP2 Interlagos is 1:14:8 which is pretty close to his actual time in real race qualification. Cheers Chatham, Melbourne>

> Sorry to get off of F1rs, but I am glad you mentioned the***pit shaking in > cpr. I noticed it a while back and just thought I had been playing the game too > long. That is a cool feature. Same as GP2, especially with a lot of packers.

>Da Speed: What IS relevant to a racing sim is the feeling of speed. I have a >system that can run either game just fine with graphics maxed. Relative to >other sims, F1 just doesn't make me feel like I'm flying! I was taking a >turn at Monza the other day... I usually focus more on the tach and my line, >but I glanced at the speedometer: 100+ MPH! It felt like I was going 20-30! >CPR, on the other hand, can make me sweat on an empty track! I think it may I can't comment on CPR, but I got the same feeling with the Demo version of F1. Looked great and I was keen to like it.......but when the speedo's showing 300km/h it felt like I was doing 50km/h....GP2/ICR/Nascar were all much better...... I deleted the demo, after a few goes.....just no sensation of speed, which as the original poster says...left me cold.... Byron! "Flame?...No thats just the wastegate opening" The garage is here ---->>> http://www.users.bigpond.com/byronl Please remove the "Anti-Spam" part from my email address before replying"

Don't worry, lots of other people besides just Ubisoft regard it as a true F1 simulation too. We are probably playing a different version of F1RS, because entering grass does not instantly send me out of control. I can still drive the car straight for some time, but it does affect the driving, just like it should. Psygnosis F1 had this problem you described, not F1RS. I can do that in F1RS too. We must be talking about a different game. I'm talking about Ubisoft F1RS, you sound like you are talking about Psygnosis F1. ;-) Psygnosis game had a terrible computer driver AI, F1RS has great AI. Very competitive, don't try to ram you out of the track like in F1... Check out the box that you are not playing Psygnosis F1. ;-)

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:07:34 +0100, "Jon Petersson" >> Scott, you think a real F1 driver would waste his time with >>something like F1RS? Come on! Gimme a break. >I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own >F1RS. I wonder if he has changed "Driver X" to something else in F1RS with the name editor utilities? ;-) Probably not.

Is this feller for real? What exactly did he buy....F1RS or CART PR? -- Bruce (at work) "Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired." (Jules Renard)

>On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:07:34 +0100, "Jon Petersson" >>I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own >>F1RS. Have you noticed in the manual that he has one of his hobbies listed as "computer games"? Heehee! Ken -- #include <disclaim>

I haven't read the manual much, but it's widely known that he likes computer games. That's why I'm pretty sure he has F1RS. He can afford it, that's for sure! --- Jon Petersson

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> On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:07:34 +0100, "Jon Petersson" > >> Scott, you think a real F1 driver would waste his time with > >>something like F1RS? Come on! Gimme a break. > >I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own > >F1RS. > I wonder if he has changed "Driver X" to something else in F1RS with > the name editor utilities? ;-) Probably not.

Nah, his lawyers would sue him if he did that :)

Er, excuse me, but Jacques Villeneuve used GP2 to learn several of the F1 tracks in 1996. His pole at Spa blew everyone away; no one thought he would even be near the front for his first race on this challenging circuit. He publicly credited this pole to his GP2 experience. Also, MS claims that Mark Blundell and Mauricio Gugelmin have put in many laps on CPR, and that Mark went 10 seconds faster than any of them at CPR's Laguna, despite their hundreds of hours of practice on CPR. According to Ubi Soft's web site, Renault personnel spent many hours helping to create F1RS; one of their engineers wrote the physics model. There are rumors that Jean Alesi was one of the test drivers. All of the top F1 teams use simulations to develop their cars and try new ideas out before building real hardware. These sims may not have the kind of user interface our retail sims have, but racing teams are very involved with racing sims, for good reason: they save time and money. Sims can have their downside, too; in 1996, Jacques struggled to get Patrick Head to allow him to use setups which better suited Jacques' style but which the sim said were slower. Once Jacques won the argument, he began winning poles and races. I suspect that perhaps the Williams racing sim got an update after the 1996 season. As commercial sims evolve, it's not inconceivable that real race drivers will begin to use them extensively for training; after all, sims have been used to train airplane pilots for many years. Eagle Woman Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

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> > Scott, you think a real F1 driver would waste his time with > >something like F1RS? Come on! Gimme a break. > Er, excuse me, but Jacques Villeneuve used GP2 to learn several of the > F1 tracks in 1996. His pole at Spa blew everyone away; no one thought > he would even be near the front for his first race on this challenging > circuit. He publicly credited this pole to his GP2 experience.

Er, I think it was just that one track. Many of the circuits on GP2 are too inaccurate to rely on for critical learning such as this. That said, I hope he sticks with GP2 for '98 'cause I don't want him anywhere near a podium. <G>

Well,that explains it-Jean is one of the best (and responsible for one of my worst hangovers ever) - I just feel sorry he isn't in a Williams or Ferrari in '98-Love to see him head to head with Villeneuve in the same equipment-I don't think there would be any competition. Don't write him off just yet-Williams '99 - you heard it here first.